POK_Lexi Ruiz Podcast_04_10_2024

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome to the pockets of knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, here to share some amazing conversations. We’re talking business, health, making and saving money, or starting something epic. Think of this as your go to spot for stories that do a lot more than just kill time. They spark ideas, give you a boost, and perhaps even change the way you look at the world.

[00:00:19] I’m pulling in the experts, the thinkers, the doers, and the dreamers. We’re about to dive into stories that open doors and ideas that light up your brain. Here we go.

[00:00:29] Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Lexi Ruiz. How are you today, Lexi?

[00:00:39] Lexi Ruiz: I’m great. How are you today?

[00:00:42] Desiree Stanley: I’m doing very well. And I am thrilled to have you on the show today with us. And Lexi is going to be talking with us about something. I think many of us who A little bit more introverted could use some help on. And that’s really [00:01:00] about how do we network and talk to people in maybe circumstances where we don’t feel quite as comfortable. And so Lexi, tell us how did you get into this world of content creation and Amazon and networking.

[00:01:17] Lexi Ruiz: All right. So, it was 2022. And I had been teaching all my career, since college up until then, but I wanted to do something different. And I met a guy, enter networking. I met a guy and I told him about this situation and he goes, have you ever heard of Fiverr? And I’m like, Fiverr? No, what is that?

[00:01:43] It’s a platform where you put a talent that you have as a gig and people pay you for it. Why don’t you just put things up there and see what sticks? And I’m like, okay, that’s a cool idea. So I made a gig on Fiverr and it was, I will wear [00:02:00] your brand in front of my closet for $20. And I really didn’t know what to expect from that.

[00:02:07] Lexi Ruiz: I got some pretty cool gigs. Someone wanted me to record a video of me dancing to add to their music video. And then I was getting hits from Amazon sellers to make products big videos with their products. And I’m like, Hold on a second. I feel like there’s a little niche here. So then I started making more videos about products and then Fiverr sent me an email saying, Hey, we’re having a community network event in Miami that we’d like for you to go to.

[00:02:40] And I’m like, wow, this is perfect. So I went to that Fiverr community event and Fiverr really cares about their community. Like it’s such a great platform to be working on. So I went to the community event and that’s where I met someone named Carlos Alvarez. Have you met him before?

[00:02:58] Desiree Stanley: Oh yeah. I know [00:03:00] Carlos very well.

[00:03:00] He’s awesome.

[00:03:02] Lexi Ruiz: Yeah, so he was a Fiverr community leader for Miami and I had told him what I did and he’s Wait a minute. I have a whole community of people that might be interested in what you do You should come to our workshops and networking events. So i’m like, okay, this sounds good So then I started going to those networking events and meeting the people there and the community It’s called the wizards of ecom.

[00:03:29] They are so So cool. But at first though, I was super nervous cause here I am someone who’s creating content and I’m going into the world of e commerce. And as that world is big. There’s a lot going on in there. So I remember telling myself before going to these networking events okay, Lexi, just

[00:03:53] be genuine and be kind and there’s nothing that can go wrong when you are [00:04:00] genuine and kind to people even though you’re nervous. Just say hi and be you that’s literally all I did at those events. And it worked. It worked out really well. And so, I was doing that. I was going to those events. And also, I ended up moving to Orlando.

[00:04:21] And then there was a space open for the Orlando community leader for Fiverr. So I’m like, Oh, you know what? I’m going to take it. And so I applied for it with Liz and Carlos actually recommended me for the position. And then I was like leading networking events. It was so cool. It was amazing. So as you can tell Desiree, this journey has been like all over the place with all of these amazing opportunities that have presented themselves to me because I put myself out there and because of meeting people and connecting with people.

[00:04:58] And now [00:05:00] two really awesome opportunities I’ve had this year because of networking. One of them is I did content for CampEcom and over there, it was two days of workshops and I got to interview people and Anthony Co Francesco. He’s the one who like contacted me about it. And I had such a good time.

[00:05:22] It’s a super cool place to learn more about Amazon and the things you can sell. And then another really cool opportunity that came my way was at that event, networking again, I met Oran who’s part of Cubic and that’s where they plan and ship your inventory from overseas. I met him and his team and they’re like, Lexi, come with us to Los Vegas to the Prosper show and do content for us there. And I’m like, yes, I would love to do that. And over there at Prosper, I had such a good time. You’ve been before, right? Las [00:06:00] Vegas is so much fun. And the company was so cool. Oran, Omri and Guy, they were like really awesome people to work with.

[00:06:08] And so just opening up yourself and meeting new people like you never know what amazing opportunities or adventures or valuable insight can come about just from saying hello to somebody.

[00:06:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, Lexi, thank you so much for sharing that journey with us. And you’re absolutely right. You said, be genuine and be kind.

[00:06:35] And that Is really all that’s necessary. I think that we sometimes complicate this so much in our minds, but just being genuine and kind is wow. Thank you for boiling it down to the nitty gritty of what really matters. That was awesome. And I want to talk about this, [00:07:00] networking specifically, and you talk about power in networking.

[00:07:04] And so you shared with us opportunities that came about because of these different networking experiences. And so talk with us about what that means, power in networking.

[00:07:15] Lexi Ruiz: Yeah, so networking is, the interaction with somebody personal, professional, but the power in it really comes from the potential beauty or the potential adventure, like I had said, or opportunity or valuable insight that someone can give you that came about just because you introduced yourself and you said hi. A lot of times I don’t like going into conversations expecting something from somebody, I like to just go into them and just seeing what happens. And you really don’t have to like have a long conversation with somebody either.

[00:07:53] Sometimes the conversation does get boring, sometimes you don’t want to talk to them and then in that moment, you’re just like it [00:08:00] was really cool to meet you I’ll see you around. That’s literally it. And then the next time you see them around, you can wave at them from a distance if you want.

[00:08:09] And it works like that. And you’re just made like a friend at an event that you’ll probably see again too.

[00:08:15] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And that’s a good point because especially in the community of Amazon and in the e commerce world, there’s a lot of people that you see over and over again. So, keeping those connections, light and happy and genuine, you’re going to see them again. And so you want to be, kind of on good terms with different people, because you will no doubt see them again, but you said something in there and it sparked a thought for me and that’s how you can be authentic and where it’s not transactional where you’re not trying to meet somebody and like what can you do for me or what can I do for you and which sort of feels like you know [00:09:00] a transaction.

[00:09:01] So what are your thoughts on that and like how you can kind of keep it so that it’s more organic and comfortable.

[00:09:08] Lexi Ruiz: What I guess it depends on the networking purpose if the networking purpose is personal It would be different than professional because let’s say if I was a salesperson I was networking then my goals would be different.

[00:09:20] I’d be trying to direct the conversation to ultimately get some answers so I could ask some really good questions So then I could become like a potential salesperson person for them to buy my services. But my thing I love to do is just to go into a conversation, not having any of those expectations, because you never know what that person brings to table and they don’t know what I bring to the table too, like it goes both ways.

[00:09:49] I’m going in there to learn something about them, but they could definitely learn something from me that helps them or I could present an opportunity to them that they never knew about [00:10:00] too. So it’s bringing value to each other. That is super awesome. And I think that making a conversation a little bit personal too is kind of nice, like asking how their day is so simple, right?

[00:10:14] But like asking how they feel about the event or if they’ve learned anything valuable that they could use for themselves and their business, asking them like really genuine doing questions to get to know what they’re thinking is a really great way to have a conversation with somebody. And that make it so transactional.

[00:10:35] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s right. Good point, Lexi. And that a little bit of personal is good. You don’t have to go, deep diving into their personal life, but it’s good to get just kind of a sense and asking open ended questions, like you said, about. What do you think about this event and have you maybe picked up something that could be useful for you?

[00:10:56] Sparks the conversation a little bit more and [00:11:00] you get to know a little bit more about what maybe is important to them. And perhaps, someone that can help them in whatever it is that they’re looking as well. I love that. And so I want to ask you if there’s any like go to moves that you have.

[00:11:19] And I know that you shared about just saying, hi, I’m Lexi. What’s your name? But can you share any other tips with those of us who perhaps feel uncomfortable in these kind of situations where we don’t always know what to say?

[00:11:35] Lexi Ruiz: Yeah for me, it actually first starts with when I’m getting ready and getting dressed.

[00:11:41] I put on something that I feel really good in and I do my makeup and I do my hair and I’m very intentional. By the time I get there, I’m like refreshed and I’m like so ready to meet some people. I feel like that right there, people can sense that from me so when I approach [00:12:00] them, they got that energy from me.

[00:12:02] And so when I talked to them, Hey, how are you? Or hey, my name is Lexi. It depends on what the purpose is for me speaking with them. But my tips would definitely be, be in something that you’re super comfortable in that you feel really good in and then talk to yourself in the mirror and just say, all I got to do is be kind and be genuine.

[00:12:29] And then the person out there who is like matching that energy of yours, they will talk to you. And the people who are not really your vibe, they won’t. And that’s great. You don’t want them talking to you really anyways, because they’re not like your vibe. You want your vibe to talk to you.

[00:12:47] And so you won’t know that unless you talk to everybody and see what they have to say. But I have found that of all the people I’ve talked to everyone really does like meeting other people and I [00:13:00] think it’s because a lot of times people are so shy to go up to somebody that’s a little bit nice when somebody goes up to them and says hi or talk to them about the event.

[00:13:13] Or just even gives them a compliment about what they’re wearing. Like I, I am so into fashion and stuff like that. So I have no problem going up to somebody and letting them know that I really like their outfit choice, or I like that the colors that they chose or something like that. So what you’re wearing, how you present yourself, and I know it’s kind of crazy to say, don’t be scared about it, but Don’t be scared about it.

[00:13:41] Really. If the person doesn’t want to talk to you, that is okay. There’s so many people in this world. The next person’s going to want to talk to you. And that’s totally fine too.

[00:13:53] Desiree Stanley: Fabulous. Thank you for sharing those with us. The point that you made about the energy and [00:14:00] mindset and talking to yourself before you go to these events is huge.

[00:14:04] I love those because really how often are we going in our minds? I don’t want to go to this event. I don’t, I’m scared to go to this event. I don’t know who I’m going to talk to. I don’t know what I’m going to say. And what are you doing? You’re like setting yourself up for that experience, right? But by changing the things that you’re thinking about, to yourself and telling yourself completely changes your mind, your energy, everything about how the event is going to unfold for you.

[00:14:32] And so what a great reminder for us. Thank you, Lexi, for sharing that. And, what you were sharing about Complimenting somebody who doesn’t love to receive a compliment. I can’t name a single person, right? Because it makes us feel good. And as the person who is giving the compliment, it makes us feel good too.

[00:14:53] And so it’s a win. Yeah.

[00:14:57] Lexi Ruiz: It is a win. And even if it’s just a compliment in [00:15:00] that moment and then you do something else, but then you see them later and you’re like, Hey, how are you? They recognize you. They know who you are. So now they’re definitely going to talk to you because you made that connection already.

[00:15:13] So in the moment, like even if you were to wave at someone, you don’t necessarily have to so have a full blown conversation with them in that moment. It’s just making those positive connections with people. So when you do approach them or you do see them, they’re like, Oh, Hey, I know you, or Hey girl, what’s up?

[00:15:33] And then you see them again and again. And next thing they’re your friends.

[00:15:37] Desiree Stanley: Yes. I love that. Thank you for sharing that with us. Now, I’m I know that you mentioned many networking events that you go to. And so how do you really make it so that you are memorable to the people that you’re meeting?

[00:15:53] And how do you remember all the people that you’re meeting? Because that’s, true as well. If you’re just At an event that’s [00:16:00] got 100 people, how are you remembering them all?

[00:16:03] Lexi Ruiz: I have an app that I use called Popl, where it has a barcode on it and people scan it and then they put their information in there and a note.

[00:16:12] And a lot of times people get real detailed with those notes and things like that. And I can put a note in there too. And then that contact saves to my phone and then my contact saves to their phone and a picture too. I have a picture on my contact. I recommend everybody to do that because it’s so much easier when you share contacts, if you already have a picture on there for that person to be able to recall you, and then I can recall people as well.

[00:16:41] So definitely have a picture, but as far as names go, you’re probably going to be very upset with me saying this, but I have the hardest time remembering names. I have to see somebody like four times before I’m like, okay, that [00:17:00] is their name. It’s just the way I am. And I try so hard. There are ways like you can say the person’s name over and over again in the conversation.

[00:17:09] I think that’s a great idea. But sometimes I just get so caught up in what I’m saying that I forget to say their name again. But recently, I’ve gotten into after and I’m going to say bye. I’ll say, Hey, so what was your name again? And I don’t feel bad about asking that. I used to feel like maybe I was rude asking for the person’s name again, but it’s actually more rude to not ask and to never know.

[00:17:35] So I’m getting myself more comfortable with saying, Hey, What’s your name again? I’m so sorry. I completely forgot and then hearing it and then remembering it, putting it in my phone and having a picture right there with it.

[00:17:49] Desiree Stanley: That’s fantastic. Great advice. I think you’re not the only one who has had the experience.

[00:17:55] Experience where you get somebody’s name and two seconds later it’s gone. It’s like you’d [00:18:00] never even heard it in the first place. And I think because we’re so focused on what we’re gonna say next, or whatever’s gonna happen next, that we just don’t take that extra moment to really kind of imprint that name.

[00:18:12] And yes, there are tips and tricks and tools and all kinds of things that we can do to remember those other people’s names that we’re meeting in that moment. And this is something I have been working on for myself as well. So you’re not the only one, but I love the idea of having the contact with the photo because you’re right.

[00:18:31] It really makes a difference in seeing the person’s face with their name. And so that next time you absolutely, we’ll have that connection because it’s right there. Yeah. So good tip.

[00:18:45] Lexi Ruiz: Also, I want to mention that recently, like at the last event, if the person gave me their number and they didn’t have a photo, I’ll ask the person like, Hey, can I take a picture of you?

[00:18:55] So it can be your contact photo. And all the people that I asked, they were totally cool with [00:19:00] it. So if you are confident enough to ask people for their picture, they might just as well be cool with it too. So we can try that out as well.

[00:19:08] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, awesome. That is a great tip. And you shared about an app called Popl and we’ll put the link in the show notes so people know exactly what that is and how it works.

[00:19:18] I use it as well and I think it’s a fabulous tool. So yes. But let’s talk about if there has ever been an occasion where you’re at a networking event and it’s just been like a big fail and you just Maybe a hilarious story or something that you want to share with us where it was just like, Oh, this completely turned or went sideways or whatever.

[00:19:39] Lexi Ruiz: Yeah. At the last event that I was working at the Prosper show, I’ve been networking and meeting people from 8 AM to 3 PM. Non-stop. you might not believe this, I’m actually an introvert, but like I put myself out there to be an extrovert. My social battery was running [00:20:00] like This low, like I, I couldn’t do it anymore.

[00:20:04] The last person I talked to that conversation sounded so transactional to me and I was becoming a robot that I was like, okay, Lex, I have five more hours of networking. I’m going to go back to my hotel room, take a shower, put on makeup, put on a new outfit and become and leave as a new refreshed person to come into this event because I cannot keep functioning the way I am.

[00:20:31] I need to like rejuvenate myself and refresh my battery so I can come out here and do these next five hours really good. And I did that. And when I left my room, I felt so much better. I think that one thing is that if you’re feeling like you are like your social battery is so low, not feeling bad about taking a moment to yourself, to be by yourself, [00:21:00] to not talk to anybody, to just get Your thoughts together and breathe and maybe do a if you need to so that way you can feel good again and you can get like your color back in your face and you can get your like jazz and start talking to people again.

[00:21:18] Desiree Stanley: Yes, excellent. Okay. Thank you for sharing that with us. And again, I feel like there’s many of us who can relate to that where we have just been at a party or an event and it’s just, we have used it all. We have given it all. We have no energy left and we need that five minutes in the bathroom to pull ourselves back together and, take a deep breath and recuperate.

[00:21:42] But that’s such a great example of how we can step away. And like you said, just have some time to ourselves to take those deep breaths and kind of get back to our center so we can come back and be refreshed and be with the other [00:22:00] person in a way that’s again, genuine and kind.

[00:22:04] Lexi Ruiz: Exactly. Taking those moments and not feeling bad about it. Like I felt bad that I had to take moments to myself, but I’m like, wait a minute. I’d never feel bad about taking a moment for yourself or never feel like I’m doing something wrong. alone or awkward if you just want to sit by yourself and not talk to anybody like feel totally confident and just being by yourself if you need to and when you do that you just really get your energy back and you feel so much better afterwards and then you’re ready to talk to anybody you need to.

[00:22:40] Desiree Stanley: Yes, thank you for sharing that with us. I think it’s a really good reminder that it’s okay to do that. Yeah. Okay. So I want to ask you, how do you stay on somebody’s radar, if you will, [00:23:00] like maybe somebody that you’ve met in an event and you really want to work with them. How do stay in connection with them in a way that’s not I don’t know, creepy.

[00:23:09] Lexi Ruiz: I like to message the person afterwards. Usually in our conversation, I’ll hear something that I think would be really good to follow up on. If they told me something that was going on in their personal life or something about the event, if I didn’t ask them already, what they thought about the event, I can follow up with them and say, Hey, what’d you think about the rest of the event?

[00:23:31] How did it go? And things like that. And just start conversations with them over text. And then from there, if it’s for a professional reason, and I’m I have a goal in mind, then my conversation will be a Directed that way, but it’s for personal I think just having those positive connects with them is good enough.

[00:23:55] So like you said, the community is so small that if you see someone [00:24:00] at an event and you vibe over, let’s say both of you listen to EDM, right? Like I like EDM. And you’re like sharing music with each other. That’s kind of like enough for them to be like, Oh, okay. This person’s a cool person. Like they’re cool.

[00:24:15] And then you see them again at the event. And then you’re talking about the event, but then you’re talking about EDM and maybe a concert that they went to. So having a good way to follow up with someone and not be a pest would be to circle back on maybe something thing that both of you guys had in common, or just reaching out to them with something in a positive manner, and then leaving it at that.

[00:24:43] And then if you want to have a follow up conversation later, you can, but I don’t like when people like just keep messaging me over and over again. So I don’t do the same thing to others. I definitely give them their space. I think everybody kind of likes their space a little [00:25:00] bit. And then seeing them again at the next event.

[00:25:03] I’ve seen so many people at the other events where I’m like, it becomes kind of like Cheers. I’m like, Hey, and they’re like, Hey, and in my mind, we’re all like a big happy family type of thing.

[00:25:14] Desiree Stanley: That’s awesome. I love it. And I think that sometimes we get caught up in this idea of, I don’t want to bother them or I don’t want to waste their time or, whatever excuse or some reason that we have in our mind that we don’t make that attempt to reach out even to just one single time, let alone multiple times But what you shared about, that connection, whatever it is that you talked about something that you thought of them and you wanted to say is a good way to reach out and not feel weird about it, right?

[00:25:48] And what a fantastic point in that there’s only so many times you need to reach out. And do it in a way that’s genuine again, that’s what really matters is that [00:26:00] genuineness of what you’re doing. So thank you for sharing that with us. Now, I want to ask you as I, I love to ask all of my guests, if there’s any books that you’ve read or podcasts that you listen to that you have found to be beneficial or influential, helpful to you in any way, if you want to share those with us now, I’d love it.

[00:26:22] Lexi Ruiz: Yeah, back in 2022. And I was telling you, I started this journey. I listened to this podcast called the Mindset Mentor. Have you heard of it by Rob Dial. So that podcast, listening to it really helped me like get my mind where it needed to be. To be able to do this whole thing, how I needed to be, cause I wasn’t there before in 2021, I wasn’t there, but 2022, like I was there and that podcast helped me a lot because it.

[00:26:57] It gave me a lot of validation of who [00:27:00] I am. Who I am. I am enough. My time is important. And, oh, that’s another thing, by the way, when I’m following up with people, I think my time is just as valuable as their time. I never think I’m really bothering them because I’m like, I got a lot of things to do too, and I’m reaching out to you to say hi, so you can say hi to me or not.

[00:27:20] But. Like my time is valuable as well. So I think because I go into that with that mentality, I never really feel like I’m being a pest or anything like that. But that podcast, like I was saying, I think that helped me a lot with getting to where I am. And I haven’t been reading any books or podcasts. I listened to your podcast actually.

[00:27:43] Yeah. I listened. I told you about it. I loved your speakers. So I listened to your podcast. And right now I haven’t been reading any books. I’ve just been working on my herb garden. So the books I’ve been reading are related to how to keep my herbs alive and [00:28:00] how to grow more and different recipes I can use with them.

[00:28:04] And for me, that’s like my outlet. That’s what I love to do. I love to eat like Really fresh tasting food with fresh tasting herbs because I also think that impacts your energy so if you put good things in you get good things out and it gives me all the nutrition and Positivity I need and so if you have if you ever want any book recommendations on herbs and growing a garden I’m your girl.

[00:28:31] I got you.

[00:28:33] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing that with us. The podcast. Fabulous. I love it. I will for sure link that in the show notes. And if you want to share the books with me that you’ve read in terms of, the herb garden and how to grow your herbs. I can include the links for those as well, but you know what, it’s true.

[00:28:51] What we put into us serves us or doesn’t serve us if we’re eating things that are not good for us. And I have had many [00:29:00] guests on the show who have talked about, that food is your life and your health and it’s what fuels you if you’re putting the good stuff in. And so I a hundred percent agree with you that good, fresh food and herbs 100 percent that’s good for your body and it’s going to increase your energy exponentially when you’re eating well. So I totally agree with that. So then is there anything else that you want to share with us? Any other last thoughts that you want to have the listeners know about networking sharing their contact information with other people at the shows, staying connected, anything else that you want to share that you think the listeners should know?

[00:29:44] Lexi Ruiz: I think that when you’re going into networking, just be confident with being yourself. Say it again, just be genuine and be kind because when you put that out there, it’ll come [00:30:00] back to you and then you’ll feel safe talking to people. people because that’s your thing. And then that’s what people will know you for.

[00:30:08] So when they see your face, they’re like, Oh, I know I can talk to her or I know I can talk to him. He’s cool. And he’s someone I can make a connection with. So just being genuine, be kind, wear an outfit that you feel good in, take the time to just decompress if you need to. That’s totally okay.

[00:30:28] Use pictures to try and remember people and have a picture for your contact as well. And have fun with it. Really like networking. I think I used to be like, super nervous about it. But now I think it’s the most fun thing ever because it’s almost like I’m just adding people I know to like my circle and I find out the coolest things, the coolest opportunities, the coolest information.

[00:30:56] You learn such like things you never even knew about [00:31:00] or thought about, you learn from when you talk to somebody else. So do all those things. And then, you know what I probably I’ll have my LinkedIn here. Anyone from this podcast can totally reach out to me if I’m going to an event and then they’re like, Hey, I’m going to go to this event.

[00:31:17] Will you be there? And if they’re. As someone who’s nervous or an introvert, I will totally meet up with them at the event, help them feel comfortable. If I know people, I will connect them too. Like I have zero problems with that. I would love for people to reach out to me if they wanted to, or if they feel like some shy introvertedness, because I would like to help them and share with them that it is okay and you are going to have fun.

[00:31:43] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I love it. Lexi, thank you so much for reiterating those points and sharing that with us. And yes, at this point, I would love to have you share how people can connect with you. If they have any other questions, want to pick your brain or just find out what is happening [00:32:00] on your journey, how would they be able to do that?

[00:32:03] Lexi Ruiz: I’m going to leave my LinkedIn for people to be able to contact me.

[00:32:07] Desiree Stanley: I’ll include in the show notes so that the listeners can find you

[00:32:09] Lexi Ruiz: I’m going to share my Instagram. I’m going to share my LinkedIn. And if I think of anything else, I will include it in there. And just contact me that way.

[00:32:18] Desiree Stanley: Sounds good. I will be sure to include that in the show notes so that the listeners can easily find you. And Lexi, thank you so much for sharing this knowledge and these tips with us.

[00:32:30] It is so beneficial. I think for many of us who are just unsure about how to go about, being at these events. And what you have just shared with us has just been tremendous. So thank you again for taking the time to come on the show. I appreciate it.

[00:32:49] Lexi Ruiz: I had such a great time. It was so nice talking with you and I’m so excited for people to listen to this podcast and be so energized and so ready that they’re [00:33:00] like, I can do this and they’re going to have a great time.

[00:33:03] I’m excited about that.

[00:33:05] Desiree Stanley: Yes, I love it. Thank you again, Lexi. And we’ll talk more soon. Bye.

[00:33:09] Thank you, dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:33:29] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Emma Schermer Tamir Podcast_04_03_2024

[00:00:00] Welcome to the pockets of knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my guest, Emma Schermer Tamir. How are you today?

[00:00:34] Emma Schermer Tamir: I’m so good. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:37] Desiree Stanley: Emma is the owner and founder of Marketing by Emma. And so she’s going to be talking about all things marketing, as well as YouTube and why branding and getting it out there is so important.

[00:00:51] And so Emma, again, thank you for joining us. I’m looking forward to this conversation. I always love to ask my guests how [00:01:00] they kind of got on this path. What sort of led you to get to where you are now?

[00:01:06] Emma Schermer Tamir: I feel like a lot of things conspired to get me to where I am now. Some of it was luck, some of it was just the right place at the right time, and some of it was hard work paying off.

[00:01:18] I had gotten into, actually fell into marketing because I was a good writer and a good communicator. And when I met my now husband, I was actually working for a startup software company. And he told me, I don’t know the fate of our future, this is only our second date, so who knows what’s going to happen, but I can see how miserable you are at your job.

[00:01:43] And I have a really big network and I would love to be able to introduce you to that network. So if you want to send me your CV and I’ll send it out. And I was just like, that is so embarrassing. Absolutely not, no way. And really more than anything else, this journey has been [00:02:00] both in growing a business, but even more so in growing myself and getting more and more comfortable and putting myself out there and really learning how to be confident in what it is that I want to do. And so he was very persistent and he kept pushing and eventually we got married and he got tired of waiting. So when I was away on a business trip, he was left at home by himself for five days, which I learned can be quite dangerous because my husband might just start a business when I’m gone.

[00:02:31] And so I came back and he said, okay, all these people want to talk with you about working together. And I was like, What do you mean? What are you talking about? And that was the birth of Marketing by Emma, which was almost eight years ago now. And at the time, I really saw it as something that would be more of a freelance job, essentially, to be able to have the freedom and flexibility to do it when and where I wanted.

[00:02:57] And very quickly [00:03:00] into the business, This is life. We started to get a lot of approaches, a lot of people being excited about wanting to work with us. And we had a decision to make, do we want to keep this really small and just keep it as my husband and I? Or do we want to try to grow this and figure that out and hire people and do all of that?

[00:03:22] And so just. Despite the fact that I had no business experience, I’d never even managed somebody before we embarked on a journey of growing a business and learning all the ins and outs and navigating pandemics and this, that, and the other. It’s been quite the journey.

[00:03:40] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. Thank you for sharing that story with us, Emma.

[00:03:44] And I have to just say that my husband and your husband must be cut from the same cloth because he is always I’ve got this great idea, let’s start a business and then I get thrown into it as well. So that just sounds like the story [00:04:00] of my life right along, I love that. First of all, he was so adamant

[00:04:04] about, really encouraging you to get out there and do, something that maybe you didn’t foresee for yourself. And so I think that’s really cool as an opportunity to get some outside perspective, because there’s times when we don’t see the potential and, that he was like your cheerleader, I think is awesome.

[00:04:28] Emma Schermer Tamir: Yes. Yeah, it’s interesting because I think so many times we hear stories about people doing grand things and starting businesses because of an innate sense of what they knew they were capable of doing. And I don’t think that’s everybody’s story. And I think that there are lots of people who maybe they don’t have the confidence and they don’t see it.

[00:04:50] See what other people see yet. And so being able to surround yourself with people that believe in you and are able to help nudge you along the [00:05:00] way when you might be getting in your own way and obstructing your own path can be really important.

[00:05:08] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, definitely. I 100 percent agree with that for sure.

[00:05:12] And so let’s talk then a little bit about as you’re growing this business you said you kind of had a decision to make and were you going to scale it or were you going to keep it small? And so tell us which direction you decided to go.

[00:05:26] Emma Schermer Tamir: Absolutely. So I guess I should also tell people what my business is because I realized I zoomed right over that.

[00:05:32] So we have an e commerce copywriting firm. We help businesses that sell products online be able to better connect with their dream customers by really doing what they do. Getting clear about who you are as a brand and who your customers are and then facilitating a deep relationship between your business and your customers.

[00:05:53] And so that decision of do we stay small or do we grow I guess I had just gotten [00:06:00] that extra little bit of confidence I needed to say. I don’t know what I’m doing, but let’s see what we can do. And I started off by hiring my friends because that just seemed like the easiest thing to do. I wouldn’t necessarily recommend that to everybody.

[00:06:16] Fortunately, I have some friends that Are great writers and are very dependable. And so it did not get in the way of any of our friendships, but I do think that is our natural inclination when we do begin to start hiring to just want to hire from the pool that we already have. And you always want to be mindful of that and considering that if it doesn’t go well, it could hinder the future of that relationship.

[00:06:44] But I guess I’m crazy because I’m also in business with my husband. So I don’t follow any of my own rules.

[00:06:51] Desiree Stanley: Well, and you’re right. Not everything is going to be cut and dry. Not every situation is going to be, this is how it has to be, or it’s going to be this way. Sometimes there’s [00:07:00] flexibility in it.

[00:07:00] Right. And so that’s such a valid point, though, about being mindful of who you’re bringing with you. And, are they dependable? Are they going to fill the role that you need? And. Could it possibly muddy the waters for your friendship if it maybe goes sour? And so that’s really something to consider for sure when you’re launching a business and who you’re going to bring with you on that journey.

[00:07:24] So thank you for detailing that and also sharing with us, what it is exactly that you’re doing to help your clients. You mentioned copywriting and branding, and then I want to talk a little bit about the YouTube side of it, because this is something that I think your YouTube channel is really experiencing some big growth.

[00:07:46] And I want to have you share with us what made you launch that? What was kind of the inspiration and maybe what was it that you said? I think this is the way to [00:08:00] go.

[00:08:00] Emma Schermer Tamir: So, I guess this is starting to become a theme of the conversation today, which is, I actually wanted to start a YouTube channel years ago, and I did not have the confidence to do it.

[00:08:15] to do that. I did build my business in large part through thought leadership, but I was always speaking on other people’s platforms. I was speaking on other people’s podcasts and webinars and YouTube channels and courses. And for some reason that felt safer to me because it was almost like somebody else was giving me permission, was saying, we think that you have something valuable to say, and then I felt comfortable contributing to that.

[00:08:44] But YouTube and having my own channel felt very different because it was me saying that I had something to say, which felt quite audacious and Very uncomfortable for me, and it’s still [00:09:00] something that I’m grappling with. I’ve been consistently publishing on YouTube for I guess almost six months now, and it is really a mental game, because when you are doing anything new, you are really needing to tap into your faith in yourself and also clarity in what your long term goals are.

[00:09:23] And there’s going to be a really big gap between what you want and where you are. And so figuring out ways of being able to persevere through that and not get in your own way can be quite challenging. Because even Still now, there are days when I release a video and I’m really enthusiastic and excited about it and it just doesn’t perform the way that I hoped it would.

[00:09:46] And alternatively, like last week is an example of a video that I released and I almost didn’t release it. I sat on it for months. It was a video about, so most of the content that I make is [00:10:00] very tactical about copywriting and branding and different psychological principles and actionable concepts and tips that you can apply to your business.

[00:10:12] Still in that vein, but a little bit of a different take on that was this video, i, filmed it months ago about how to network as an introvert. I self identify as an introvert and it can be really scary and difficult to put yourself out there but that is also a part of marketing and especially if you’re wanting to grow your own business you’re going to have to get comfortable doing that.

[00:10:35] But it felt like a more personal video, it felt like a more vulnerable video and I didn’t really know whether anybody would want to hear about that or be interested in that. When I first published the video, it really wasn’t doing very well. And then I was getting home very late from a networking event by The irony there.

[00:10:56] And I just opened the YouTube app and I was like, [00:11:00] whoa, what happened? Now, this didn’t go viral or anything, but for me, it was by far my best organically performing video to date. And it was something that I almost never even let see the light of day because I was so nervous about putting it out there.

[00:11:16] I think I’m talking a little bit in, in a lot of different directions right now, but all of that to say that I think for me, first and foremost, starting YouTube was something that I’ve just always wanted to do. And so I wanted to do that for myself, but also recognizing the power of having a personal brand.

[00:11:35] The power of being able to have my own content, to say the things that I want to say, and all of the different ways that can be used as a tool, both to foster the relationships that I currently have to attract new opportunities, not just leads, but all sorts of other things. When you’re putting yourself out there, people start finding you.

[00:11:57] And so that was, [00:12:00] What led me to get past all of the, that internal reasoning for why I shouldn’t do this and to finally just say, okay, enough is enough. I’ve said two or three times already that I’m just going to do this already, but now I’m actually going to do it.

[00:12:16] Desiree Stanley: That is so fabulous. Thank you, Emma for detailing all of that for us, because I think that the journey of that is what so many of us go through when we want to do something, but we’re afraid, right?

[00:12:32] And it boils down to. Are we going to just try, are we going to just put it out there anyway and see what happens? And there’s some bravery. There’s a little bit of courage. You have to do that. And I love that you went ahead and did it anyway. And the story about that specific video, that is a little bit of a different twist than you normally were publishing.

[00:12:56] And it kind of hit better. It sounds like [00:13:00] then maybe, a typical one that you would do. And so I think that it’s interesting concept and looking at why did that particular one have a little bit more of a spike in viewership versus others. And, it makes me wonder, is it that personal kind of heartfelt, a little bit more like real in depth, like me.

[00:13:25] Kind of a video that you shared versus a tactical, maybe actionable video, although super helpful and beneficial for viewers. May not be quite as personable.

[00:13:37] Emma Schermer Tamir: I think that there’s probably a lot to what you just said, and I think it’s interesting because we are in such a dynamic time right now with the way that AI is, coming into the mix in our world.

[00:13:56] And it’s between AI and [00:14:00] TikTok and just all of these tools that are flooding us with content all the time, more than what any of us can bear. Yet it seems like we’re constantly consuming it anyway. So one of the things that I think that does is it actually makes us hungrier for authenticity and opportunities to feel like we’re connecting with other humans.

[00:14:24] And I think that actually also influences how we market our businesses and what people are looking for in them for with brands as well. They’re looking for because there are so many choices. Now brands that are figuring out how to really connect with people around a set of values or interests are able to be more profitable, are able to build really loyal customer bases and are just better position to be able to manage a lot of the change that we are seeing and [00:15:00] that we are going to continue seeing an interesting detail that emphasizes that point. As I read, I wish I remembered where I read this, but I read this recently and I’ve seen similar things in other places as well where more and more companies

[00:15:17] aren’t really performing nearly as well as social media pages of the founders or of other people that are working in the business and that those are actually the places that are driving a lot more traffic and a lot more interest and a lot more connection with potential customers because is an opportunity to connect on that human level in a way that isn’t Overly curated in a way that is not so, also sales focused that really is more about relationship building.

[00:15:53] And ultimately, we are all going to be more likely and more comfortable [00:16:00] buying from somebody who we trust, who we feel like we relate to. And I anticipate seeing even more of that as AI continues to take over and as we only become even more bombarded with all the content everywhere left and right.

[00:16:22] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Good points in there for sure. It’s that human connection has always been what we’ve needed and wanted. And really, I think that makes a huge difference in your business’s performance when you are looking at who your customer is and trying to connect with them on a level that they’re at.

[00:16:45] I think you’re absolutely going to have better performance, right? Because it’s more of a real connection. You’ve really got that going, together versus just throwing, like you said, it’s not salesy. You’re not just throwing a sales pitch in someone’s [00:17:00] face.

[00:17:00] We’re connected on a human level. I absolutely agree with that. And the point about the AI writing and, images and all of that really is becoming the topic of the day, because it’s going to be such a huge thing in the future that for, you know, copywriters or artists or, whatever, because really it can be used kind of across the board. We’ve got to have a bit of a pivot and figure out, how we can harness AI to our benefit to make sure that we’re not lost in that shuffle, but not to get too far off topic because we absolutely could have a whole conversation about that. But I want to talk then about some of the maybe techniques that you’re using with your YouTube channel.

[00:17:47] And you shared about some of the content that you like to. Share for your customers, your clients, or just people who find you. But what are maybe some things that you think are effective in [00:18:00] building the channel so that it is, found by viewers?

[00:18:05] Emma Schermer Tamir: I’m still very much learning that, but, one thing that I try to really keep in my mind because I’ve had numerous people who have been successful on YouTube, which is, it is a long game. You hear about, for example, people on TikTok who blow up overnight from their first video. Most of the time, YouTube is a longer game. It’s something that you really have to be consistently committed to for an extended period of time before it really starts to take off.

[00:18:39] And so I’m really trying to keep that always in the back of my mind. And so I’m not too caught up in the performance of any single video or in feeling frustrated that I’m not making faster progress that I would want to because I am someone that I wouldn’t say that anybody who knows me would call me patient.

[00:18:59] [00:19:00] I am not patient at all. And I’m like, used to being able to figure out, okay, I can do this and I can get this result. And YouTube is not quite as responsive in that way. And so there are a few things that I’m keeping in mind. One is YouTube is a search engine, just like Google or a lot of other platforms.

[00:19:24] SEO can be a great tool for being able to connect with different audiences. And so I don’t allow SEO to necessarily dictate the types of topics that I’m going to be doing, but I do want to make sure that there is the SEO justification for a video before I go ahead and film it. So there are a variety of different tools that you can use to do that, but I do think that’s a really essential piece of things.

[00:19:55] I’m also I, really experiment with topics. [00:20:00] So I think that especially when you’re just starting off, you don’t necessarily know what people are going to resonate with. And so this how to network as an introvert video is a great example of a video that if I had my guess, I would have thought that it would have been my lowest performing video.

[00:20:17] And so what that signals to me is maybe I should experiment with some other finds videos like that and see was that a fluke or was that actually sending me down a little bit of a different direction than I had originally anticipated. So I think that’s being open to What is actually hitting, but also recognizing that there are so many variables at play that if you’re trying to over optimize every single thing, you may be getting too caught up in the smaller details rather than looking at everything as a [00:21:00] whole.

[00:21:00] Something else that I did that very early on, also at the encouragement of a friend who has just created a lot of content in his life. And he said, Emma, you have to find somebody to edit your videos because if you don’t, that is going to be the thing that makes you give up. And I’m really glad that he was kind of pushing it.

[00:21:25] I was like, no, how will anybody know what my vision is? And I was very resistant to the suggestion when we were talking. And then when I got home and I had time to process it, I decided, you know what? Let me just go on Upwork and let me post a job description. I don’t even know how to hire a video editor because I’ve never done this before.

[00:21:47] before. I don’t know how to tell them what I want. I don’t know any of the lingo, but I interviewed a few different people and I did trials with a few different people and I ended up hiring an editor [00:22:00] and I can tell you that my friend was so right because if I would need to be spending hours every week on editing, which is not my skillset where I was constantly getting frustrated because I knew something that I wanted to do and I didn’t know how to do it. But also, so many times my editor sends something back to me and I’m like, I wouldn’t have thought to include that clip there, but I love that you did that. And so it’s taken away one of the biggest resistance points that I would’ve had.

[00:22:31] For other people, it might not be editing. And this also doesn’t have to apply to just YouTube. This is, in general, a business lesson that I’ve learned, is figure out where those resistance points are that Are also going to become very convenient excuses for why you can’t or shouldn’t do the thing.

[00:22:50] And then minimize those resistance points so that you kind of take away those excuses, but also give yourself more time and energy to be able to focus on the [00:23:00] things that you’re really good at and that you enjoy doing. And so that it becomes something more pleasurable and that you want to be working on and committed to because it is a very big commitment of time that you’re making.

[00:23:13] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh, yeah, absolutely. And the points that you made in there were excellent. This idea of having someone else edit your videos for you. First of all, if you’re running your own business, unless it’s video editing, you’re probably not going to have the skillset required to edit videos.

[00:23:32] And while you can do it, it’s going to be incredibly time consuming. And where is your focus need to be? It’s probably not on editing a video. It’s running your business. And so I think that’s a fabulous point that you made there. And while it could also be an opportunity to learn a new skill set, if you have the time for it, and expand your knowledge, great if you can, but I love that it is an [00:24:00] opportunity for somebody else to share their take on what it is that you’ve created and maybe highlight it in a way that you never thought possible.

[00:24:09] Emma Schermer Tamir: Yes. Yeah, and it also, it makes it feel like it’s a little bit less of a solitary Thing as well because now I have somebody else that I’m able to interact with and I can ask him a question like oh Do you think that point was articulated well and then he makes suggestions to me for things that You know would be good to add or include or consider for future videos.

[00:24:32] And so I think that he’s also helping me Do a better job at what i’m Focusing my time on because I have It not just the feedback of the end result, but the feedback of somebody who is an expert at editing YouTube videos, who is giving me suggestions of things to be working on. And, um, it’s really important [00:25:00] to obviously not get so caught up in always wanting to improve every single thing because you can get really stuck in that.

[00:25:10] But small, helpful pieces of advice as you’re going along can be really great ways of being able to level up without getting totally overwhelmed.

[00:25:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s a great point. It’s really taking somebody else’s knowledge, experience, and time they’ve spent learning something and just, Absorbing that advice and how much that can launch you forward.

[00:25:38] Because now you don’t have to go through that trial and error period because they’ve already done all that. And if you’re willing to take that advice and run with it, where’s it going to take you because now you’ve just cut out all that time of having to learn the processes and whatever instead of just, focus on where it needs to be going.

[00:25:59] [00:26:00] So. Excellent point. Yeah. So you also touched on SEO, and you made a point in there about how YouTube is also like a search engine. And so maybe share a little bit about your thoughts on that, why you feel like it’s considered a search engine.

[00:26:19] Emma Schermer Tamir: People use YouTube for a variety of things. It’s owned by Google, so anything on YouTube is also searchable via Google.

[00:26:28] So, if you notice a lot of times when you search things on Google, you may even get some video recommendations that pop up there. It’s not even just on YouTube, but let’s focus on YouTube just for the sake of simplicity. Of course there are people that are just there purely for entertainment, but people also utilize YouTube as a place to learn how to do anything under the sun, from home improvement to [00:27:00] how to use certain functions on their iPhone, to different business principles.

[00:27:05] And so, you can utilize how that functions as a way to be able to position your content to get in front of people that would be not only interested in a specific video that you’re filming, but ideally all of your other videos and as a way for them to be able to discover you, discover your channel, and want to continue tuning into your content.

[00:27:30] And so thinking about, it’s not just Do you have the keywords? You also have to make sure that your content is relevant to the keywords that you are wanting to use. But then you also need to optimize for, let’s say that you have the keywords and all of that is correct, but you don’t have a great thumbnail or you don’t have a persuasive title, and then people aren’t going to be clicking into your video, you’re going to have a low click through rate [00:28:00] and then you’re not going to be performing as well as you could.

[00:28:04] And that’s actually one of the areas that I feel like I’m weakest at that I’m currently trying to figure out. So I hired someone to help me with my thumbnails and I’m not thrilled with the thumbnails that they’ve been creating. So I think that it’s perhaps time for me to find someone new because I have a vision for what I want, but similar to the editing,

[00:28:26] I’m not a designer, and so, even with Canva, which makes things much easier, I just, I feel like, I have the image in my mind of what I want, and then I look at the final product of what I’ve created, and there is a very wide gap. So that is just as important, your video can be great, but if nobody’s clicking into it, then you’re, nobody’s going to see it.

[00:28:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And I love that you shared about how the Keywords that you’re using absolutely [00:29:00] have to be relevant to the video so that it makes sense for when somebody begins to watch it, that there’s that connection there and the idea that brands can really use this as an opportunity to get their product, their information, their service, whatever it might be in front of people who need it because you can search there.

[00:29:21] And so, yes, I love that. What a great way to have another opportunity to be marketing your business in a way that’s seen as helpful because YouTube is often seen as a learning opportunity or a place of learning.

[00:29:36] Emma Schermer Tamir: Exactly, so let’s say, I just, I have my microphone sitting right here, so this, I feel like, always ends up being an example that I use, but let’s say that you you have a microphone company, and you’re trying to, you want to create a YouTube channel, well, it doesn’t necessarily have to be about microphones, it could be about Starting your own podcast and [00:30:00] obviously a microphone is a critical piece of that and so you can use it to talk about how important a good microphone is and at times, pitch your microphone in a more subtle way, but if you become a resource for people that are looking to start their own podcast, you’re gaining so much authority and credibility.

[00:30:20] It also gives opportunities for partnering. Maybe you don’t manufacture cameras and so you partner with a camera company. So there’s all sorts of other types of business opportunities that you can generate by doing something like that in a way that if you were only selling your microphone on your own website and on other marketplaces, you wouldn’t It’s more on the transactional stage.

[00:30:44] So it’s more about, oh, you’re looking for a microphone. Here’s the microphone for you, which let’s not undervalue that. That’s very important. And also when you have this content marketing piece of for example, if you [00:31:00] were going to have a YouTube channel about how to start a podcast, you also need a really strong sales page.

[00:31:06] When people get to that. side of things but those two combined, then you’re really owning the full funnel of the customer journey and you’re also less beholden to having to spend as much money on expensive ads and influencer partnerships and all of those things because you are creating a constant flow of new leads and opportunities that are finding you because of the work that you’ve done.

[00:31:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent point in there for sure. The point that I wanted to talk about right now is how you’re saying that yes, the detail page of, like an Amazon listing or your website is going to tell them this is XYZ about the product, but when you’re seeing it may be used in a live event [00:32:00] or, on YouTube, a recording for whatever it is, then you can see it in action.

[00:32:05] And it’s a little bit different of a, way for the viewer to, absorb the information, I think. So I think it’s cool. I love the idea of knowledge about something shared in a way that, people are truly learning also.

[00:32:25] Emma Schermer Tamir: Yes. Yeah. It’s, there’s an interesting book underneath here, so I can it’s called They Ask, You Answer, and it essentially, the whole concept is By creating a constant flow of inbound leads through looking at the questions that your customers would have.

[00:32:46] And so I think one of the examples in the book was talking about, it was some sort of pool service. And so going through all of the different questions that customers might have about pools, even if it didn’t necessarily [00:33:00] relate to their, maybe they were building pools, but this was meant more about servicing and maintaining and caring for pools.

[00:33:07] And so they just started creating content about all things pool related. And then it became when people are searching for anything pool related, they’re performing. high in all of the search results because they’re creating valuable content. And so then by way of that, not only are people clicking into your site, but then you’re establishing yourself as an authority.

[00:33:30] If you’re the place that somebody is going to learn about a particular thing, and then eventually they want to buy that particular thing, you have established yourself with a lot more credibility and you have a leg up that other companies don’t. And that doesn’t even add in the piece about more personal relationship and authenticity and some of these other things.

[00:33:54] So when you add that too where it’s not just that they see you as an authority, but they like [00:34:00] you, they understand who you are, what you stand for, what your company’s values are, then that’s, Even more powerful as a tool. And what’s also great is it’s not short lived. It’s not something that is going to fade away and be unsearchable.

[00:34:18] Something that you create for YouTube or for your blog or things like that on those types of platforms, they really can be evergreen content that can be found for years and years. And can really have like a very long trajectory of being able to serve your business and your goals by investing the time into creating a really solid piece of content.

[00:34:47] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, you know what? It just made me think of, it’s like a long shelf life. So it’s evergreen. It’s there when they say stuff that’s on the internet lasts forever. They’re kind of not [00:35:00] kidding. And so, YouTube videos they are out there and it may not be, it’s hit a million views in 24 hours or something, but it’s still out there and it’s still going to be searchable.

[00:35:14] Like you said, Google owns YouTube and they are going to of course be promoting each other and content in both places. Cause it’s really one. And so you’re going to find it. And I love the point that you made about you’re establishing kind of your authority on a subject when you’re talking about, these videos that you’re creating, that you’re sharing information about a product or a service or whatever, but you’re kind of saying Hey, I know this, I want to share it with you so you know it, and then people going to follow that person now or that company or brand or whatever, because they’re teaching me something that I have learned.

[00:35:55] And now I know .

[00:35:56] Emma Schermer Tamir: Yeah. [00:36:00] It’s a very different, anybody can make you feel excited about a product, a good salesperson, they don’t necessarily have to know anything about what it is that they’re selling, but in the moment they can get you excited and emotional and buying something that you may or may not want.

[00:36:21] And I’m not suggesting that sales is gross or bad. I think sales is very important. And I think skillful salespeople and good salespeople actually help match people to something that’s going to be in the customer’s best interest and really help them solve a problem that they need to solve. But! The thing is that there are lots of people that are really good salespeople that don’t actually have the credentials or background or knowledge.

[00:36:52] And so, you can also see the difference. You can see this is a way if you really have invested the [00:37:00] time and the energy and the effort into learning something. And this is a way that you can utilize that effort that you’ve made to be able to separate yourself and differentiate yourself and show I’m not just selling you this because I saw that a lot of other people are selling this and I think I can make money, but I have expertise in this and I want to show you that expertise and I want to help you understand this and then, hey, if you don’t want to do this yourself or if you’re looking for a product that can solve that problem, I have this that can help you.

[00:37:39] And so It’s also a great way for people like me who don’t feel as comfortable in sales conversations to be able to still get closer to that, but from a way that feels more comfortable to me.

[00:37:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That’s a hundred percent valid. I think It’s not in everybody’s [00:38:00] nature to be, salesy per se, but again, to go back to sales is vitally important.

[00:38:06] Nothing happens until something is sold. And I heard that ages ago, really, if you think about it until somebody needs to buy a pencil there’s nothing that’s going to happen prior to that. Needing a pencil. You know what I mean? And so that’s where nothing happens unless something is sold.

[00:38:26] So besides that I just want to share again about how important it is. Like you’re saying, if you’ve got knowledge and expertise in an area, you can use YouTube as a way to share that information with others so that it benefits them. And ultimately what you’re doing is. In a giving way, helping them solve a problem or find a solution to whatever it is that they may be needing.

[00:38:55] And so what a great way for brands to expand the [00:39:00] opportunity for themselves.

[00:39:01] Emma Schermer Tamir: Absolutely. Yep. And if YouTube isn’t your thing, pick your platform that feels comfortable to you. So if you’re more drawn to TikTok or LinkedIn or Instagram, or if you’re, like me and you’re just doing all of them which I wouldn’t necessarily advise because it’s a lot of energy, but you can find the thing that feels most organic to you and then you can always add on as you go, as you gain more confidence, as you feel more comfortable, as you start to connect in with what are people interested in.

[00:39:33] I just recently started experimenting with short form videos on Tik TOK, Instagram, and then YouTube. On LinkedIn. I’m posting it all the different places, and it, I’m doing that for a few reasons. One is, I have different, audiences in all of those places.

[00:39:49] And two, the platforms all perform in different ways. And so I’m able to get really interesting feedback just in seeing what gets the most views, what gets the most [00:40:00] engagement on the different platforms. So I’m both learning about the different platforms, but I’m also learning about the kinds of content that people Are interacting with the most and then I can use that to inform.

[00:40:11] How can I actually make better YouTube videos. It’s a way of really being able to test ideas and concepts and get more comfortable on camera and all of those things in a way that you get instant feedback. You don’t get as quickly and readily with YouTube as you do with these other platforms. I think using them in tandem can actually be really helpful and maybe even expedite some of the figuring out learning curve of things.

[00:40:39] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing that with us. Because the short form video on YouTube, that’s something that, I have not even begun to dig into, but I know that it’s become a huge thing and it’s really popular. TikTok, again, just barely putting a toe in there because, like you [00:41:00] said, all of these different platforms have kind of different formatting and different requirements, and you’ve got different followers there, and they’re looking for different types of information, and so it can be very time consuming, and so you kind of do have to pick and choose what makes the most sense for you initially until you get established, right? And you’re seeing feedback and you’re seeing it quicker so that then you can begin to make adjustments. And so that’s always a good thing, a good tool, right? To have that opportunity to learn and grow and change so that you’re really putting out there what people want to see.

[00:41:39] So I think that’s excellent. Well, Emma I’ve enjoyed our conversation so much. I knew I would, and this has just been delightful. You shared a book with us just a little bit ago, and I’d love for you to share again that book. And then also if there’s any others that you think are beneficial or have been helpful for you that you’d like to share with [00:42:00] the listeners.

[00:42:01] Emma Schermer Tamir: So this book that I just mentioned is They Ask, You Answer. It’s by Marcus Sheridan. Here’s the cover again. Some other books that I would recommend. I’m a big studier of human psychology. I think it’s so helpful in understanding the root influences that Not only we can utilize as tools to be more influential in what we’re doing, but also in understanding how our own minds work and how maybe companies are utilizing that to influence us.

[00:42:38] So even if you’re not selling anything, it can be worthwhile to do some learning about that. So a great book is Influence by I believe Robert Cialdini. I’m not sure if that’s how you pronounce his last name. I also love Thinking Fast and Slow, which that’s Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky, [00:43:00] I believe both of those really get into how our brains have a lot of shortcuts that they follow to be able to quickly make decisions and to manage the massive amounts of information that we’re constantly being bombarded with and how those are not always what we would expect them to be, that we are anything but rational when we start to dig into the ways our minds work.

[00:43:27] And it’s really fascinating if nothing else. So I would recommend both of those books. Absolutely.

[00:43:32] Desiree Stanley: Great recommendations for sure. Thank you, Emma, for sharing those with us. I’ll include those in the show notes for the listeners to easily find. And yes, I. I absolutely love reading books and studying information on the brain because it truly fascinates me as well.

[00:43:49] And you’re absolutely right. We are so far from rational and the decisions that we make are, made sometimes instantaneously, and we don’t even know [00:44:00] why. I love those recommendations for sure. Do you like to listen to other podcasts? And if you’d like to share those with us now, that’d be great.

[00:44:09] Emma Schermer Tamir: I listen to a lot of podcasts. I think I listen to podcasts a lot as a way of being able to decompress. So I do have some ones that I learned from a Hidden Brain along the lines of learning about our own inner workings. I do love and that’s a fantastic one.

[00:44:26] Andrew Huberman’s podcast is all about health and optimizing our bodies and minds and that is a great one as well. And then I’m always either listening to some sort of true crime or some such, kind of candy podcast. It’s just interesting.

[00:44:51] Desiree Stanley: And for sure that’s, we’ve got to have that sometimes too, right?

[00:44:55] It doesn’t always have to be about learning, although that’s great. [00:45:00] Sometimes it is fun to listen to other things that just kind of pique our curiosity in a different way. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. And that’s why I always ask my guests to share whatever book or podcast they want, because it’s an opportunity for the listeners to try something new and they may find something that they never thought they would enjoy.

[00:45:20] Emma Schermer Tamir: Oh yeah. I’m almost always listening to a podcast. I walk five miles a day, so I listen to a lot. Most of them are pretty forgettable and nothing that I would necessarily recommend, catches my interest for a moment, but then I couldn’t even tell you what it was called later.

[00:45:39] Desiree Stanley: And that’s okay. Well, Emma, again, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this knowledge and information with us. Lastly, before we close out, I always love for my guests to share how the listeners can find them. If they have questions, they want to follow along your journey and see what you’re working on.[00:46:00]

[00:46:00] How would they be able to do that?

[00:46:02] Emma Schermer Tamir: Absolutely. So we’ve been talking a lot about YouTube. My YouTube channel is Marketing by Emma, and then that’s also my website, marketingbyemma. com. On my website, you’ll be able to find all the other platforms, whether you prefer LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, all the things are there.

[00:46:22] We also have contact form and email and phone numbers, so if you’d like to reach out and if there’s anything that we can help with whether you’d like to ask some questions or get help with some of your copywriting or branding needs, we would absolutely be happy to help in any way that we can.

[00:46:39] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing that with us. And I’ll be sure to include all the details of that in the show notes for the listeners to find. And Emma, thank you again for coming on and sharing this with us. I so appreciate it.

[00:46:54] Emma Schermer Tamir: Thank you so much for hosting me. And I don’t know if you heard, but that was my dog standing outside the door, reminding [00:47:00] me that it is five minutes until his dinner time.

[00:47:02] Desiree Stanley: Well, then we’ll talk more soon.

[00:47:08] Emma Schermer Tamir: Thank you so much. Bye.

[00:47:10] Desiree Stanley: Thank you, dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:47:30] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Michelle Cooper Podcast_03_27_2024
[00:00:00] Welcome to the pockets of knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the pockets of knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Michelle Cooper. Welcome to the show, Michelle. How are you today? 

[00:00:33] Michelle Cooper: I am great. Desiree. Thank you so much for having me really excited for our conversation. 

[00:00:39] Desiree Stanley: Yes, as am I. I am thrilled to have you on the show.

[00:00:44] And I shared with you before we got started recording that I’m super interested in this topic that we’re going to be discussing. And before we get into any of that, I just want to share with the listeners that Michelle is the owner and founder of Alchemy [00:01:00] Accounting and Bookkeeping. And she’s a co founder of the Sacred Money School.

[00:01:04] And so we’re going to be talking about money, the money mindset. So we’re going to talk about how to set the relationship between money and our mind, as well as some tips for women women, business owners and even more so let’s go ahead and dive in. I always love to have my guests share their journey, what led to this path for them.

[00:01:28] And so Michelle, if you would tell us now how did this all come to be for you? 

[00:01:32] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, I’ll give you my fast track version. I spent most of my career, my working life in corporate finance. And after I had kids, you know, that became a little bit more challenging. And I ended up leaving a role as a chief financial officer for a large corporation because of the stress and just couldn’t manage it very well.

[00:01:54] And I decided as many of us do, Oh, I’m going to create my own [00:02:00] business. And at the time I was probably a little bit lost and burnt out and I wanted something fun and a friend of mine was like you always have such great like taste and stuff and I decided to open up a little women’s boutique in the town that I live in, which was great.

[00:02:16] It was a lot of fun. It was open for two years. I say it was my two year MBA in entrepreneurship because I didn’t, it was very different working in corporate or working for a large company rather than yourself. So I learned what it’s like to be an entrepreneur. I learned the challenges and the struggles of being an entrepreneur.

[00:02:36] I met a lot of people in that two years and other local businesses. Eventually I decided to close the business for a variety of reasons, but you know, I sold it off and it was great. And the people I had met the other shop owners the other business owners. They reached out to me to say Hey, can you help me understand my numbers?

[00:02:55] Can you help me understand what the problem is here? Because they knew my background. [00:03:00] It’s so funny because you know, I was meeting with them and doing the work. And my husband was like, You’re charging people for this, right? And that became alchemy accounting and bookkeeping.

[00:03:09] And it grew really fast. I ended up hiring people you know, to amazing bookkeepers, awesome CPAs, like all of the people for the business to function effectively and smoothly. Like it’s 14 years old now. So I’m 14 years along. I’m like, wow, that kind of feels like it went fast.

[00:03:28] We support business owners across North America. So the key thing is that I realized that I could help people with their numbers and we could clean up finances, right? We’ll clean up the books. We can get things organized. I can do the analysis. I can do the projections. But I realized that people had a really crappy and often women had a really crappy relationship with money.

[00:03:54] Then I realized that I had a really crappy relationship with money. And I [00:04:00] was like, Oh, okay, this is something to look at. At the time I was going through a pretty big, like personal growth phase, right? Like I had left this, you know, corporate big job with a big salary. I didn’t really know who I was anymore.

[00:04:17] A lot of my identity was wrapped up in that success. You start, you go down the rabbit hole, right? Where you start like reading books and following people. And I realized there was a lot more to life and success and everything than just the dollars and cents. I realized that I was making some mistakes, just in my thinking and my belief system. So over the course of several years, I did a lot of work on myself. And then I became a certified coach so that I could help my clients because I could fix things for them, but they would often fall back into bad habits because based on their belief systems and it wasn’t a permanent [00:05:00] change, it was just like a bandaid.

[00:05:01] And I didn’t want to, I don’t want to be somebody’s band aid. I wanted them to feel confident and empowered with money. Because one of the things that I realized is that I never want women to be stuck or feel trapped in a job or a relationship or a situation or a life that is anything less than phenomenal.

[00:05:27] And often they are because of their relationship with money. So it’s I’m going to figure this shit out. Like I’m going to figure this out. And so yeah that’s me. Okay. 

[00:05:38] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s wonderful. Thank you for sharing that with us, Michelle. And what a journey and the experiences that you had along the way.

[00:05:45] And I love how you shared about. You got a crash course MBA in, you know, launching a business as many people do when they decide that they want to become an entrepreneur and launch a product or launch a business. It’s you’re not [00:06:00] ready, but you do it anyway. And you certainly learn a lot. Along the way.

[00:06:04] And what great insight that you had by taking that time and really reflecting and learning and, you know, continuing to grow and develop and figure out where things needed to shift in your own mind. And now you can pass that on to other people. And I think that’s fantastic. I love it. And that’s why you’re here today is to talk with us about those things really how we can shift our mindset around money, our beliefs around money and make lasting changes. I love that you don’t just want to be like the quick fix or the patch that just, stops the bleeding, but doesn’t really solve, you’re not stitching up the wound, right?

[00:06:45] You’re not really healing it. So let’s talk then a little bit about. Where we can begin with this the thought of our mind and money. 

[00:06:55] Michelle Cooper: For sure. One of the things I realized is that, our [00:07:00] beliefs around money, they’re based on our interactions with money, right? And that could be what we experienced in our family dynamics.

[00:07:06] It could be our own interactions with money. For example, for me I got into a lot of debt in university, right? And then I got out of debt, and then I found myself in debt again, and then I got out of debt, and so I realized I had this kind of feast or famine cycle. And when I reflected back, I could see that Like I came from a commercial fishing family and that is a feast or famine cycle of money.

[00:07:31] That’s what I grew up in. So I artificially created that even though I wasn’t in an industry that has a natural feast or famine cycle. So when we look at our history with money, like our personal history, we look at the things that we witnessed growing up, if parents argued about money, or there wasn’t ever enough, or there was maybe a lot, and it was maybe not managed properly all of these things, they cement into our subconscious [00:08:00] and our subconscious just acts from fact, right?

[00:08:05] So it’s These are just facts. This is just how it is. But that’s not true. So when we understand that about ourselves, then we can decode those things. And we can also change them. We can decide something different. It can be as simple as that. And then we can create strategies. To reach our goals, right?

[00:08:25] Or handle our self sabotage. For example, along the way of my journey, I came across Kendall Summerhawk, who is a money coach. And she created the Sacred Money Archetypes. And this to me was a game changer, right? So I love things like archetypes. I love the hero’s journey kind of thing. Like I love all that kind of stuff.

[00:08:49] And. The Sacred Money archetypes are eight archetypes that, like we have all eight within us, but we have really a top three that [00:09:00] really represent our relationship with money. And in each of those archetypes, there’s gifts and like strengths and there’s weaknesses, and there’s areas of growth, right?

[00:09:12] That can really help us expand our trajectory of wealth. Amplify our money, our bank account, that kind of thing. And also handle things like, you know, arguments with people with loved ones. Because a lot of people argue about money, but if you know yourself, you understand your archetype and you say, you have a partner, like I had a husband.

[00:09:40] If I had known his archetype, it’s like the love languages. If you know someone’s love language, you know what to do to make them feel loved. If I had known his archetype, we could have had different conversations about money. Because in fact, we’re very opposite about money. [00:10:00] And so there’s the whole belief system and then the archetypes are like an extra layer of like how those beliefs actually translate out into our everyday life.

[00:10:13] like our practices with money, our habits with money and really the challenges that we get into. So it really super informative. 

[00:10:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love it. And then that was one of the things that I mentioned before we began is I was so fascinated by this idea of the archetypes. And yes, thank you for sharing some of those with us.

[00:10:37] I just have to say a couple of things. One, what an interesting thing to realize about your own actions when you’re thinking back on your family dynamics and seeing this feast or famine. And it just sparked for me a realization that, my father was in construction and that is very cyclical and a [00:11:00] lot of chicken one day and, feathers the next.

[00:11:03] Super interesting point there that just lit up for me, but I want to talk a little bit more about the archetype. So you mentioned that there’s eight. And so can you just share with us briefly, like what those are and maybe, you know, a couple of points of each.

[00:11:19] Michelle Cooper: Totally. So romantic, which is my top one. So a romantic archetype. Is someone who loves the experiences of money, right? So they’re not really like a things kind of person. They like the good food. They like spending money on other people. They tend to live in the now so they can be challenged with saving for the future.

[00:11:40] The accumulator, which is the complete opposite end of the spectrum lives in the future and doesn’t like to spend money now. So it’s an amazing saver, but can be very controlling around money and quite restricting. They can also be quite, uh, judgy about [00:12:00] How they were just spend money or maybe other people spending habits.

[00:12:04] There’s a lot of criticism around money for accumulators. Then there’s Maverick. So the Maverick is a risk taker. This is somebody who loves the high ups and downs. So Maverick’s my number two. And that’s why I love the feast or family cycle because a Maverick actually gets an adrenaline rush.

[00:12:24] Of like, how far can I push it? And they love the rebuild phase, right? Like they’re very energized by that. And like I said, they’re the risk taker, so they have no problems taking risk, but their biggest opportunity really for Maverick is to create stability. If they can create stability because they’re a great risk taker, they can actually like grow incredible amounts of wealth.

[00:12:49] Because they’re not really afraid of taking the risk. There’s the ruler, which is the empire builder. They have lots of ideas, a ton of ideas, right? They will create [00:13:00] multiple businesses. And they’re very successful, but they will overwork. So the thing about a ruler is that they measure their success based on money.

[00:13:11] And so even if they have success, but it would maybe say they did a launch and they wanted to make a hundred K and they made 80. They would be like, I wasn’t successful. It was like 80, 000 was successful. But they measure their self worth. based on money and the volume of money. 

[00:13:32] Oh, so the alchemist is somebody who has a love, hate relationship with money. So one minute they might love it. The next minute they’re like, I wish we lived in a world where we didn’t need money. They also have a lot of ideas. They’re like a huge idea generator, so they’re the kind of person who’s Oh, I got this new business idea, and they’ll go buy the domain and then they struggle to monetize their ideas.

[00:13:57] Because there is a, there’s [00:14:00] somewhat of a lack of competence in like bringing the idea to fruition and in creating like money from their gifts, right? There’s the nurturer. So the nurturer is someone who feels like they can fix everything with people through money. So they will over give, they have a very lack of boundaries.

[00:14:21] They don’t have a problem saving, but they can use that savings to help other people and then sometimes put themselves at a disadvantage. So they’re really best opportunity is to create boundaries, which can feel really hard for them, because then they feel like they’re not helping people, they really love to help people.

[00:14:42] One of the things I would say if I’m working with clients who are nurturers is for to help them understand that by creating boundaries you’re actually empowering other people. So you’re not enabling them. There’s the connector. So the connector is someone who just like the name says, they connect well with other [00:15:00] people.

[00:15:00] They can make a lot of money through relationship capital. Like people are instantly drawn to them, like they’re magnetic or they’re repelled by them. So it’s really easy for people to give them money. They’re also often really good salespeople. They’re very confident in that area, but they really love and value that connection with people.

[00:15:24] They don’t tend to over give so much, but they can sometimes feel a little unsure or guilty in monetizing connections. So asking for a referral. That asking for business, that kind of thing.

[00:15:38] Celebrity is someone who loves the bling so they can have a lot of money come into them. They love the flashiness. They love the designer stuff. They love all the bling and they’re usually covering up a lack of self confidence. And often it’s funny, I always say they have a champagne lifestyle on a, like a [00:16:00] soda pop budget kind of thing.

[00:16:01] The reality of their situation can be very different from the outward appearance, right? 

[00:16:08] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. I appreciate you going into all the detail, and I’m sure the listeners will as well. When you were discussing the different types, I, of course, began thinking about, Oh yeah, that sounds so and so or that sounds, that seems so and and I’m sure, you know, this is what happens a lot, right? We start to recognize these things in other people or ourselves, of course. And yeah, definitely recognizing some of those things that you mentioned. And it’s okay. So that’s interesting. Now, you know, I’ve got to think about that for a minute.

[00:16:37] I love the detail that you shared with us. Thank you so much. So then let’s talk maybe about some suggestions on if we begin to explore those archetypes and which one we’re sort of recognizing as, you know, number one, number two, number three for ourselves, what are some changes maybe we can begin to make depending.

[00:16:59] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, so [00:17:00] I’m going to give you a link so people can do an assessment and you can get your top three right because you’ll want to know that just listening to the description you probably like ding, that’s me kind of thing. But you’ll want to see that ranking because sometimes you can be very close for several of them right.

[00:17:17] You do the assessment, you can get the full description of each archetype . And then you look at okay, so for example, if I look at the ruler the biggest challenges for a ruler are not indulging in enjoying life in the moment, because they keep themselves so busy, right?

[00:17:36] They’re always chasing that moving target, right? Like that lack of celebration and acknowledgement of their achievements, and they do have a deep feeling of not enough money. So you can go the opposite end of those three things and go, well, what can I do? How could I be a little bit more in the moment?

[00:17:56] You don’t have to make big sweeping changes. Because big [00:18:00] sweeping changes aren’t sustainable in the short term so be like, how can I acknowledge and enjoy being in the moment with money, right? How can I celebrate? So celebration for a ruler is a really big deal. Like they don’t celebrate, they’re one of those tick the box, move on to the next goal.

[00:18:19] Well, celebration really is a key to increasing your vibration and attracting more abundance in your life, right? So we want to pause and acknowledge, we want to celebrate. And then of course the feeling like there’s never enough, that’s a limiting belief. So change that. There’s always enough.

[00:18:37] There always has been enough. There always will be enough. There’s always enough. And then we can take this into if we have a daily practice where there’s affirmations or meditation or journaling to look at, okay, how can I step into this more fully? And how can I lean into my gifts?

[00:18:55] Like I said, with the connector, when I meet [00:19:00] connectors. And I say to them you have a really amazing gift for connecting with people, and you can use that, you can leverage that gift to make more money. And they’re like, Oh sometimes they feel uncomfortable with that. Cause they just love connecting.

[00:19:16] And it’s Oh, now you’re adding money into the conversation. So it’s just learning how to leverage that gift. What I call their superpower and really like lean in hard on that because it’s there for a reason. Like I’m a romantic. And so that’s like it’s my top one and there’s a pretty big jump between my top two, my third.

[00:19:41] And so I love experiences, right? And that’s what I spend my money on. But what’s happened in my business and I only realized this after the fact is I actually really care about my client’s experience. That’s proved to be very beneficial in my [00:20:00] business because we’ve had clients for 14 years.

[00:20:02] And we put a lot of money into the client’s experience. So does it mean we’re the Walmart of accounting bookkeeping? No, absolutely not. The client’s experience is really important. And so that resonates with me. And that means that my business is showing up in the world with an energy that is directly related to me.

[00:20:23] If I try to do a kind of Walmart bookkeeping and accounting firm. There’d be a disconnect, it wouldn’t be congruent and they wouldn’t work. It’s like leveraging your gifts and creating strategies for your weaknesses or your, you know, the things that are can be improved upon.

[00:20:41] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love it. I’ll include the resource in the show notes, of course, for the listeners. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And so then I want to talk about now as a business owner. Maybe what are some ways that we can work with managing our [00:21:00] finances in a way that is sustainable and I know, you know, you’ve really got to begin by working on your mindset, your thoughts around money.

[00:21:09] And, you know, of course, then it’s going to influence your behavior with that money. So talk us through some of that and what are some other suggestions and strategies. 

[00:21:18] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, so obviously I believe the foundation of everything is your mindset and your belief system, right? Working through that yourself, getting support on that from a coach or, you know, reading a book, whatever it is for you.

[00:21:31] And it’s not a one and done thing, this is an ongoing thing. version of you is going to require something different, right? So getting clear on that and being willing and open, coachable to changing that is really important. And then like I tend to look at it a three legged stool, right?

[00:21:52] So a lot of people will be like, okay, there’s mindset. I’ve done the money mindset thing I’m good. Everything should magically work and I should have a gazillion [00:22:00] dollars in the bank, right? It’s that’s one leg of the stool. The second leg of the stool is your actual dollars and cents So is that kind of neat and tidy?

[00:22:09] So do you have it’s like the Marie Kondo effect, right? Clean up your stuff You If you’ve got piles of unopened mail, are you in avoidance of stuff? Are you not looking at your money? Are you not looking at your credit card statements? Do you have unfiled taxes? Do you have a bookkeeper?

[00:22:31] Are the books up to date every single month, right? Like sometimes people are like, I have a bookkeeper. She works on it when she has a chance. It’s well, no, you want somebody who’s working on it every week or every month, right? Not just randomly, you would need to accurate detail financial records to make important business decisions.

[00:22:52] So getting the right support, the qualified help cleaning things up, right? So if you’ve got a [00:23:00] business and your financial records aren’t up to date, hire somebody to get them up to date. So that you’ve got accurate financials to look at. If you have a file taxes, get that done. Clean it up.

[00:23:13] Because energetically, it’s like an open loop out there, right? It’s like just hanging out there, undone, if you’ve got things hanging around like I said, like an open mail or, you know, things. Just clean it up. One really fun thing you can do. I love this. I always tell new clients to do this, get your wallet out, does your wallet really represent you and what you want , your relationship with money? So I did this with a client recently, and it was so funny cause I said, can you show me , get your wallet, show me your wallet. It was like this red leather wallet that was like all Ripped and torn and like very well loved.

[00:23:57] And I was like, does that [00:24:00] really do you feel proud bringing that out, no, not really. I’ve had this wallet since grade eight. I’m like, okay, you know what, like what’s going on there, right? Like, why aren’t we willing to have something nice to hold our money? And then she opened it and there’s all this stuff in there that doesn’t relate to money.

[00:24:19] There’s no cash. There was no cash in our wallet. There was like papers and receipts and notes and sticky notes and a pen and like a candy and all this stuff, like just clean it up. And the best advice is, you know what? Go get a new one, if you’ve had your wallet for a little bit, it’s probably got old energy attached to it.

[00:24:41] Get rid of it. Let it go. Go find yourself a wallet that you were like, I love this thing. This is amazing. And have it nice, neat and tidy, right? That’s something fun you can do because. We want things to be not only physically cleaned up neat and tidy, but also [00:25:00] energetically. So energy is like what I see as the third leg of the stool which is, the whole energetics around money, you know, the old wallet the, are you in lack?

[00:25:11] Are you walking around talking about how you can’t afford anything or everything’s so expensive. What’s going on energetically. Look at that, right? Clean that up. And that usually relates directly to your belief system and whether you’re in a fight or flight state or you’re in an empowered state.

[00:25:29] A lot of times, you know, like a mindset person or coach will be like, do the mindset work and they do that, but don’t look at the other two areas, you know, energy person, energy worker will be like clean up your energy and do Reiki and have crystals and all that stuff. And not look at the dollars and cents, right?

[00:25:49] And sometimes people do two, but they don’t do the third, and then it doesn’t work when you actually clean up all three parts. That’s where [00:26:00] you see quantum shift in people. It takes work to do that, and you need support usually so get the right help. 

[00:26:10] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh, fantastic advice, Michelle, really.

[00:26:15] I love it. The point that you made about, The wallet being, you know, old and torn up and full of all these random papers, I think that there’s listeners who can probably relate to that or a wallet, maybe that you are embarrassed to bring out in that, you know, by that description could be embarrassing.

[00:26:35] But then I think it also points to how we choose to spend our money. This is still a perfectly good wallet. Like a mindset could be, this is still, it still works. It’s good enough. But it’s an interesting, thought there is this good enough? Should it, should you have a working wallet that’s not torn up or shredded or whatever, you know, falling apart.

[00:26:57] And so that’s a really interesting point. And then [00:27:00] how you talked about the three legs, I think is brilliant because you’re right. We often just look at one aspect of something. And if you don’t look at the other part of the other two parts, really, as we’re discussing, you’re missing pieces. And the unfiled tax returns, not that I have any, cause that would just drive me bonkers.

[00:27:21] But I can see how, when you get into that, where you’re just like pushing it off because you don’t want to look at it, you don’t want to deal with it. It’s too much work. Then it just becomes this thing that hangs over your head and then completely shifts your energy. I could absolutely see that 

[00:27:37] Michelle Cooper: totally shifts your energy.

[00:27:39] It totally does. Because then you start worrying about when people call your phone, you don’t know the number or, the mail that arrives from the IRS. You don’t want to look at it or, you know, none of this stuff is difficult to do on its own. But it can feel very overwhelming for [00:28:00] people.

[00:28:00] And so it’s take small steps. And like I say, get support, right? You don’t have to do this alone. You’re not expected to know all these things. And understand yourself better so that you know where you’re at. And you know what you’re doing. Like habitual pattern of behaviorists.

[00:28:19] So for me, I don’t worry about the future. I have a very deep trust that everything is working out exactly as it should, and it will always work out. It always has. I don’t know. But I had to figure out okay, like I’m 55. I’m divorced now. I trust that everything’s going to be okay in the future, but what if I could create a strategy to give me a little bit of a backup.

[00:28:43] plan, right? So I had to find a strategy that worked for me because I don’t like to take away from the now of money. Like I don’t really care about the future. I just know that it’s going to be fine. But for me, the shift came [00:29:00] when I reframed that for myself in that I was providing a future for my kids. 

[00:29:06] Should something happen to me, there’s going to be something there for them, right? To, I don’t know, take care of things, do whatever that needs to be done, right? And so that helped me commit to creating some plans for the future, some investment, putting money into investments rather than, you know, spending it now on whatever I felt like.

[00:29:30] And then, like you said, like the piece around the money, anywhere that we feel resistance is a really good thing to notice. So if you’re like, Oh, yeah, this wallet is good enough, you feel resistance to change. I’m not saying you have to change it, but you want to ask why am I resistant to this?

[00:29:50] What’s going on? Well, you know, it’s, you shouldn’t waste things or I don’t have enough money to buy another wallet or, you know, it, [00:30:00] that kind of stuff doesn’t matter to me. That all might be true. I don’t know, but we just want to be curious and ask. Okay, well, what’s going on here? Why do I think that?

[00:30:10] Is that actually the most abundant energy? Because the energy piece, people sometimes poo that or whatever, but it is really important. You’re not going to create what I call your rich life from lack and scarcity is not going to happen, right? So what is going to shift you into a more abundant energy ?

[00:30:36] Authentically. And cultivate that in yourself. 

[00:30:40] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. It’s really it sounds like reflecting on these things. That you’re exploring and asking yourself, what does it mean to me? And maybe where did it come from? Was it something I learned from growing up from my parents?

[00:30:58] As many of us did, you know, [00:31:00] it’s like absolutely something is good enough. It’s still working. Don’t get rid of it. And that, maybe came from your parents who had parents who were in you know, the depression. And it’s like these things get passed down and then you’re carrying around this idea and it’s from, you know, Two generations ago.

[00:31:19] Michelle Cooper: Totally. And that’s really common, right? Like many of us come from immigrant parents or, you know, people, even grandparents who were involved in our lives and they were for sure in the depression, and things were different back then. There wasn’t, there were actually some, You know, lack and scarcity right there wasn’t sometimes there wasn’t all the resources that we have available to us now.

[00:31:45] We don’t live in the same times though. Right. It’s not ours to carry forward anymore. And I think one of the biggest gifts that you can give your kids and future generations. is to recognize where you’re [00:32:00] carrying forward things that are no longer appropriate or valid and change that so that it’s not carried forward into future generations.

[00:32:10] So that’s probably one of the things I’m most grateful for is that I have been through a lot of this process and this work and continue to. And my children’s relationship with money is very different than mine. And they just operate in a completely different way. And that to me is awesome because they’re going to have a very different future.

[00:32:33] Right. 

[00:32:34] Desiree Stanley: That’s very true. And really this conversation can be around so much, not just the money aspect, but you know, the way that we talk to our children, the things that, we tell our children, how we behave with our children. It’s, you know, a lot of these things. Carry from, generation to generation.

[00:32:52] And that’s a whole nother conversation that I’ve had a podcast guest on talking about, mother daughter relationships and that [00:33:00] kind of generational trauma. And so absolutely, money is part and parcel of that as well. And helping to clean that up with yourself, making a difference in your children’s lives or the, you know, Their future, it’s I think a wonderful thing anytime we can do that.

[00:33:16] So you touched on, in this conversation piece here about the future. And so then let’s talk about as we’re working on building wealth and kind of this legacy piece for our children or, you know, maybe grandchildren. How can we navigate that in terms of beliefs and maybe steps?

[00:33:43] Michelle Cooper: Well, I think at the very basis, it’s being willing to have conversations about money with everybody in our family, right? There’s probably a lot of your audience who grew up in households where people didn’t talk about money. Or when they [00:34:00] did, it was tense at the very least. So I feel like it’s I equate it to be like sex, be willing to just talk about it, right?

[00:34:10] Like it might feel weird at first or uncomfortable or whatever, but when we understand ourselves, so you can do that by understanding your archetype and what you believe, right? When we understand ourselves, we can have different conversations. And when we understand others, for example, for me, one of my daughters is an accumulator and she’s a saver.

[00:34:35] And so we just had a conversation yesterday where she was like she’s complaining that her something was making a weird noise in her car and I was like, well, just take it in for a service because that’s what I would do. I don’t know. I don’t know. I think what car is like taking over service.

[00:34:49] She’s it’s like 200. What do you like? I don’t. And, you know, she’s a university and stuff. And I was like, Okay. Well, let’s just talk about that. Like, where does that come from? And [00:35:00] she’s got money in her savings. It’s she saves like a crazy person. But she’s, it’s like the control.

[00:35:07] One of the really common beliefs that, Okay. Is important to dispel is that money gives you security, and it does not because money can come and go, and it can also devalue really quickly. And so there’s no security and having a million dollars in the bank like none. And we even see situations like last year where people went to take money out of the bank and it wasn’t even there.

[00:35:34] So money doesn’t provide security. You provide security to yourself through your connection with God, the universe, source, whatever it is for you, right? So if we can look at our own thinking around security and see if there’s, is there a connection there that I think I have to have money or a certain amount of money or whatever to feel secure because you [00:36:00] can feel secure without anything, right?

[00:36:04] Like I said, being willing to have conversations about it, even though it might feel weird or uncomfortable conversations that aren’t tense. One of the best little prompts that I give to clients is, wouldn’t it be fun if, so you can journal on that. You can meditate on that. You can just talk about it, right?

[00:36:25] Like you can talk about with your kids. Wouldn’t it be fun if, I don’t know, we went to Disneyland. We bought a, Louis Vuitton handbag, we went to the farmer’s market. I don’t know, right? What, it’s a great conversation question and it’s a great journaling question because wouldn’t it be fun if it’s really light energy, not attached to anything, right?

[00:36:50] Like it’s fun. Wouldn’t it be fun if we did this. Now for some people it would be hard because they don’t equate money with fun and then you have to look at that, [00:37:00] right? 

[00:37:00] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, that’s good. Good stuff. I think that the point you made about, well, first of all, yes. Money and sex are very difficult, can be very difficult conversations if you let it be.

[00:37:15] If you let it be. It doesn’t have to be, right? It’s. Just taking the step and you’re in a relationship with someone you should be able to have these conversations Because you are your partners, right? Yeah, and I know sometimes it doesn’t feel that way it can sometimes feel adversarial, but it doesn’t have to be and You know money is probably what the number one thing that couples argue about Absolutely, and about how the money is being spent really I think is what it boils down to and that goes back to Archetypes, right?

[00:37:49] What’s important with the money and how it’s used. And again, having that conversation, figuring out what archetype you are, so you can really get into a good conversation about [00:38:00] how it’s important to spend money to you or not spend money. And I want to save or whatever. And then what does that all mean in the grand plan going forward?

[00:38:10] Yeah. Or do you have a plan? 

[00:38:12] Michelle Cooper: Totally. And you know, one of the things that became really obvious to me in my marriage specifically about money is that it’s the meaning that we create about ourselves and about the other person and about the relationship because of the money conversation, right?

[00:38:30] So just super quickly I’m a romantic as my number one archetype. My husband was a accumulator, so I live in the now and I don’t really care about the future and accumulator lives in the future doesn’t care about the now. So those two things are opposite and that’s fine. But the meaning that I created from our conversations about money was it he didn’t care. Like I want to enjoy our money now. I want to go on holiday. I want to do these [00:39:00] things. I want to have date nights. I want to enjoy it now. And he couldn’t do that because being an accumulator, he was always wanting to secure our future. I created a meaning that he didn’t care.

[00:39:13] About me. He didn’t care about the date night, the holiday, the thing. And for him, he thought I was being reckless. He created the meaning that, well, she doesn’t care about our future. Maybe she thinks we’re not even going to be together in the future. She’s not even worried about that. She just wants to blow it all now.

[00:39:33] And so there’s the actual, like what’s going on, but then there’s the meaning that we create about ourselves. And about the situation and the relationship and all this stuff that is so important to dissect and look at and have a conversation about. Because if we had known this about each other, we could have had a different conversation and we could have understood each other better and came up with a compromise, [00:40:00] right?

[00:40:01] But we didn’t. And so yeah, one of the reasons we ended up divorced because we just felt like we weren’t compatible. We didn’t have the same goals. 

[00:40:10] Desiree Stanley: And what you just shared about the meaning that we are placing on. whatever the action is, right? Yeah. That’s the root of it is whatever meaning we’re assigning to it.

[00:40:26] So good, Michelle. That’s so good. That point that you just shared. I love it. And really I think for the listeners, I hope you got that and really, you know, take that to heart and think about what meaning are you placing on something if you are not in, in alignment necessarily with how you’re, you know, you and your spouse or your significant other spending money.

[00:40:49] That’s a good one. Yeah. Well, you mentioned briefly about rich life and I know you have a podcast called the Rich Life [00:41:00] Revolution. And so I would love for you to share that with the listeners right now. Tell us about the show and you know, what do you guys talk about on the show?

[00:41:08] Do you have guests? Is it just you? How often do you have episodes? 

[00:41:14] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. So the Rich Life Revolution is a podcast I launched last year. And I do weekly episodes and I alternate between guests and solo episodes. And really it’s for primarily women. It could be for anyone, but when I’m talking to my person, you know, I’m considering it’s a version of me, it’s a woman who is, you Come to a place in her life where she might feel like, is this it? Okay, like it’s okay or even it’s not okay. And I really don’t want people to settle, right? I don’t want people to think well, this is just, you know, what I got, this is a cards I was dealt.

[00:41:53] And so you just get on with it because we don’t live in that kind of world anymore. That might have been the [00:42:00] experience for some of our ancestors, right? Where there was very clear roles and things and restriction, right? But in the world that we live in now, you can pretty much work from anywhere.

[00:42:13] You can travel wherever you want. You can do things . And we have this. This whole world is opened up to us and we don’t have to settle for something that’s less than phenomenal. And so I love to share stories of people who are creating their rich life. Now I say it’s your rich life revolution because It’s for a lot of people.

[00:42:43] It’s revolutionary for them. It feels like they’re like in a revolution of their life kind of thing. They might be making dramatic changes, right? They could be having significant shifts, like a divorce or a death or a huge career [00:43:00] change or empty nest. Your kids are all gone. And you’re sitting here going, who are you? I gotta spend the next 20 years with you. I don’t even know you now. And I don’t think that we have to feel stuck or trapped. We can create whatever we want. And part of that is understanding what we do want and then what we believe is possible. For ourselves, right? Like I said, I love sharing stories to inspire people and sharing and having guests on that provide real tangible nuggets, like real takeaways for people, things, action steps, they can do things, they can start to incorporate into their life.

[00:43:38] There’s a cool little workbook attached to the podcast that helps people work through some of their belief systems and archetypes and stuff like that. And like your rich life is richness is based on what you value, right? So for some people that might be living off grid with a bunch of chickens and pigs [00:44:00] and, you know, doing their thing for other people maybe live in the laptop lifestyle, travel in the world. I don’t know. It doesn’t matter, right? For some people, a rich life is their health. Richness comes in all kinds of forms. It’s not about money. It’s really about that feeling of richness in your life, which kind of comes back to the romantic archetype, right?

[00:44:24] It’s the experience I want people to have. Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. 

[00:44:28] Desiree Stanley: Oh, gosh, that sounds amazing. And so I will for sure include the information in the show notes for the listeners to find you. I love it. It’s right speaks to my heart in inspiring and empowering people to, live the life they want to live, reach the goals they want to reach, whatever the case may be.

[00:44:48] It’s just about, you know, educating and having choices.

[00:44:53] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. 

[00:44:53] Desiree Stanley: So I love it. I love it. Good stuff. Choices are so good. Yes, for sure. Well, [00:45:00] Michelle, we could continue to talk. I feel like there’s so much more that you could share. And so your podcast, you know, I want the listeners of course to go explore and listen to the topics that you discuss on the show, because I’m sure that there is so much more to this conversation that they can follow there.

[00:45:17] But I want you to share with us. As I ask all of my guests, if there’s any books that you think are beneficial or have been influential for you that you’d like to share if you do so now, I’d love it. 

[00:45:29] Michelle Cooper: Yeah. So one of the best books about money is called Happy Pocket Full of Money. I don’t think if you ever read that it really is, uh, the mindset, the energetics around money and it helps people really understand their relationship with money.

[00:45:45] I also love anything written by Denise Duffield Thomas. She’s got some great books about money and abundance. And really making things easy. Like she talks about I think one of her [00:46:00] books, I think she’s changed the name of it, but it was something about like prosper and chill or something like that.

[00:46:05] It’s like being prosperous, but not from the hustle and grind aspect. Which I think, you know, especially with some archetypes, we can get into the overworking. situation, right? Um, those are amazing. And yeah I just love that Happy Pocket Full of Money, it, to me, it was a game changer for sure.

[00:46:25] So that’s probably my top choice. 

[00:46:28] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I will absolutely include that information in the show notes for the listeners to find. That sounds like a excellent book and I’m definitely going to take a look at that myself. Is there any podcasts that you enjoy listening to that you would like to share with us?

[00:46:44] Michelle Cooper: Oh God. My favorite podcast is Mind Your Business by James Wedmore. And he has a really great combination of mindset, energetics, and just really solid, honest, like business advice. His series [00:47:00] on leadership is phenomenal. I had all of my employees listen to it. So that’s one of my favorite. Another that I’m binge listening to is Millionaire Girls Club.

[00:47:11] So that’s with Jill Stanton she’s just super fun, really great energy, really off the cuff and super honest and real. So those are probably my top two right now. 

[00:47:23] Desiree Stanley: Love it. Great recommendations for sure. Thank you. And lastly, Michelle, if you would share with the listeners how they can find you, follow your journey and what you’re teaching, that would be amazing.

[00:47:37] If you’re on any of the socials, if you’d like to share with us now. 

[00:47:40] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, so everywhere Instagram, Facebook all the things I am at Michelle B. Cooper. So you can find me there. And if you go to michellebcooper.com there’s a, you know, links to all the different places you can find me, the podcast the different businesses that I own.

[00:47:58] And yeah, [00:48:00] all the bits and pieces are there. 

[00:48:02] Desiree Stanley: Perfect. Yeah. I will include that in the show notes as well. And again, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us on the show today and sharing your knowledge with us. It has been so wonderful and I have just gotten so many great pieces of information that I’m going to just start exploring.

[00:48:19] And so thank you again for sharing it with us. 

[00:48:22] Michelle Cooper: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. It’s just so much fun. Just really. I love this conversation. 

[00:48:28] Desiree Stanley: Nice. We’ll talk more soon.

[00:48:30] Thank you, dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:48:50] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Maraya Brown Podcast_03_20_2024
[00:00:00] Welcome to the pockets of knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host Desiree Stanley.
[00:00:22] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host Desiree Stanley and with me today is my guest Maraya Brown. Welcome to the show Maraya. I’m so excited to have you on. How are you today? 
[00:00:35] Maraya Brown: I’m great. I’m looking forward it’s amazing how swiftly we met and how swiftly we’re just popping on here and Getting to know one another as we go 
[00:00:45] Desiree Stanley: For sure. And you’re right. It was like quick, and it all lined up perfectly, which I love. So thank you for joining us. You’re the CEO and founder of the Women’s Vibrancy Code. And you’re going to be talking with us today [00:01:00] about women’s hormones, women’s health, being kind of balance and imbalance related to hormones.
[00:01:06] Plus a few other things that I’m excited to learn more about. So why don’t you start by telling us, Maraya, how did this all come to be for you? What was the progression that led to this? 
[00:01:18] Maraya Brown: Let’s think that the quick synopsis is I finished my nurse practitioner training at Yale University in 2007.

[00:01:27] And I had been running the women’s health in federally funded clinics and private practices. And I was certified nurse midwife. So also attending births. Then I ended up building a Facebook group with some friends and it grew like wildfire. And along the journey, the Facebook group was focused on, vetting experts and products that could help women along their women’s health journey from a non pharmaceutical perspective. As I was doing this, I was meeting all these [00:02:00] experts from around the world that had online work and online courses. I had never even heard of such a thing. And so this was like 2018, 2019.
[00:02:10] I finally just decided I’m going to give it a try. 2019, I finished working at the brick and mortar practice and I thought, I love running the women’s health. I was at a local functional medicine practice and of course created big impact and big change in women. But it felt like I was perpetually giving them a fish rather than teaching them to fish.
[00:02:34] And I was also limited to the women that lived here in my geography. And so this idea of starting the Women’s Vibrancy Code was a way for me to empower women to not only feel better and, not feel so exhausted and have answers to their hormones and address the emotional lability and viper that can come out and the sleep stuff and the weight stuff and so many [00:03:00] symptoms that women struggle with, but also to help them really understand why what I was suggesting was working.
[00:03:08] The last four years has been tremendous and so fun. I have courses and programs and women’s retreats and my own podcast. And it all started out simply being a women’s health provider that was passionate about helping women really feel empowered about their bodies to feel educated and also know that a pharmaceutical or a prescription has its role, but there’s so many other things that we can do.
[00:03:36] Foundationally either with or without the prescriptions. 
[00:03:40] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. Thank you for sharing that journey with us. And it’s true that we are only able to help so many people when we’re one on one or as you were working in a particular clinic, limiting, but opening it up as you have, you really can serve so many more [00:04:00] people and really make a change in so many more women’s lives.

[00:04:03] I love that. And I want to talk a little bit more about what you just touched on there at the end, and that’s how the medical side of it has its role and its place where there’s so many other things that are available. And so expand on that for us. Tell us what you mean exactly by that. 
[00:04:25] Maraya Brown: Yeah. I think for the most part, mainstream medical training is really based on the foundation that looks like this.
[00:04:34] What’s your symptom? What lab do I order? What’s your diagnosis and prognosis? And what’s your prescription? And once again, I don’t think all prescriptions are bad, but I do think that we’re missing the boat. And so often what’s missed is what about diet modification? I really believe Hippocrates had it right.
[00:04:56] Let thy food be thy medicine. Let thy medicine be thy food. [00:05:00] What about personalized supplementation? What about lifestyle and stress reduction and sleep habits and relationship habits and addressing stories of worthiness and self loathing? And all of that plays a role. And so as I developed this program, I had to go, you know what, this is multidisciplinary.
[00:05:25] So what I have created, there is a multidisciplinary approach. We’re looking, yes, at nutrition and supplementation, as well as a mindset and trauma release and our relationship with our sexuality and our sensuality, because I don’t think that we can completely work in silos. So sometimes we might take a prescription, like for instance, in 2014, I had lived in Hawaii for seven years and worked as a midwife and a nurse practitioner there.

[00:05:59] And then when we [00:06:00] were pregnant with baby number two, it’s time to head home. And so we moved back to Southern Oregon, my husband and I, and, I’m a type A personality, overachiever, moved back. I was managing our house and our rental still in Hawaii, living in Oregon running a network marketing business.
[00:06:20] Oh, by the way, happened to plan my 20 year class reunion because here I am back home. I might as well. And a family reunion with 33 family members with a one year old and just about to give birth, like of course, the typical type A personality and postpartum. I was exhausted, and my body hurt, and I was sad, and I was having strange rashes, and I didn’t want to be touched by my husband, and I was embarrassed, and, here I was as the women’s healthcare provider in the community where other women’s Providers referred their patients to me and somehow I just, I look [00:07:00] back and I go, it’s so foolish of me.
[00:07:01] I continued to give to everybody else without actually listening into my own body’s cues. So in my scenario, my thyroid and my adrenals crashed. And so yes, I went on thyroid medication and wow, that levothyroxine, it was like, the lights are on, there’s life again. But it wasn’t just that. It was also looking at, oh, okay, what diet modifications can I take that are going to serve and fuel my adrenals and my thyroid?
[00:07:31] Can I add in some supplements? I need to be honest with my ability to say no and address all of the other factors that were at play to get me to where I was. Now, I could have just seen a regular PCP who, maybe would have sent me to an endocrinologist, maybe not. They give me a prescription and send me on my merry way.
[00:07:55] But I don’t think that’s what serves us. I’m not opposed to getting [00:08:00] prescriptions, particularly, so many women benefit from bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. But once again, I don’t believe that we should, we are served by just doing that. There are a lot of other factors. 
[00:08:13] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that personal story with us of your own experience.
[00:08:20] And I think that there is so much to what you said. We so often take on so many things. We’re balancing so many roles and so many spinning plates. And you’re absolutely right, we are not just one part. We are a whole. We’ve got to look at all of those pieces together to make the whole. And so you can’t just focus necessarily on one aspect with ignoring all of the others.
[00:08:48] Yeah. I hundred percent agree. 
[00:08:49] Maraya Brown: I think the other piece that’s important to remember is statistically only one third of physicians graduate from med school, having taken one nutrition class. [00:09:00] So we go, huh. All right, one of the things that I say is stop asking people for directions that they haven’t been.
[00:09:08] And so we get to have our eyes wide open. If you’re wanting a diagnosis and a prescription or a surgery as part of your plan, then going to a mainstream provider makes perfect sense. But the individuals that I see, they come to me saying, I’ve seen a gazillion different providers. I’m being told it’s either all in my head, my labs look normal, or all they want to do is prescribe me something, and I don’t feel heard, I don’t feel seen, I don’t feel like they’re getting to root cause, or they’re making me seem like I’m just crazy.
[00:09:44] And these women are saying, no, this is not normal for me. And just because it’s common does not mean it’s normal. I want to age through my thirties and forties and fifties and sixties with total vitality. And I think [00:10:00] it’s fair to expect and no, it’s not. It’s not fair to expect that you’re going to be exhausted and not sleep and putting on a bunch of extra weight and feeling like your PMS completely takes you down or bleeding time that’s, is so painful you can’t handle life.
[00:10:18] You know, for women to say, I have no libido, I go, gosh, their providers just want to put them on an antidepressant. And I’m not saying all antidepressants are bad, but there are so many other factors that we can look at to look under the hood. 
[00:10:34] Desiree Stanley: Oh, for sure. I agree again, a hundred percent with everything that you just shared.
[00:10:40] It’s very easy to just say, here, take this pill. And bye, but we deserve more than that. And we really have, I think, come to a point where we’re all just you know what? That’s not going to do it anymore. I want more than that. I deserve more than that. I need [00:11:00] help without somebody just saying, it’s all in your head because, you know, we all know it’s not just in our head.
[00:11:07] So many other women are experiencing these things that it’s not just me. Or, it’s not just you, it’s not just one person that this is happening consistently across the board. And so we have to address that. Why we need to look at all of the factors in play, like you said, stress levels, you know, that’s huge.
[00:11:25] If you’re not getting enough sleep, that’s another one. I had a guest on who was fantastic talking about skilled sleeping and what a difference that can make in your life. There’s so many parts of this. that are important in determining what kind of difference we can make in our overall health.
[00:11:43] So thank you again for sharing that and really, you know, reiterating the importance of looking at the whole picture. 
[00:11:50] Maraya Brown: Yeah. Yeah. 
[00:11:52] Desiree Stanley: Let’s talk then a little bit about when we’re talking about hormonal imbalances and [00:12:00] how that really Plays into so many parts of our life, our mood, you mentioned, sexual libido, you know, just so many areas.
[00:12:11] Let’s talk about that and what we can start to look at how we can bring those back into balance. 
[00:12:17] Maraya Brown: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting because I’m not sure our hormones are ever really in balance. They’re constantly changing. They’re constantly changing each day, each week, each month, each decade, depending on if you are ovulating on a regular basis, if you’ve been on hormonal contraception, if you’re pregnant, if you’re postpartum, where you are in the perimenopause chapter.
[00:12:41] You know, perimenopause can start as Early as age 35 and then perimenopause ends once we enter menopause, what’s menopause? That’s once we’ve gone 12 months without a menstrual bleed. And even within perimenopause, there are three distinct phases. And so when we look [00:13:00] at our hormonal wellbeing, there are also a lot of different hormones.
[00:13:04] So there’s our sex hormones that we think of, our estrogen, our progesterone and our testosterone. And I’ll probably spend most of my time. Focused on those, but I think it’s also important that we remember our adrenal hormones. That’s predominantly going to be cortisol and DHEA. Cortisol also changes throughout a day. When I look at a 24 hour cortisol curve I want it to spike within 30 minutes of waking And stay elevated and then come down right after the one hour mark.
[00:13:36] And then in the afternoon there’s a little bump and then as we get ready for sleep. So for someone who goes in and gets a blood test looking at their cortisol and it says it’s high or low, it’s irrelevant because it’s in relationship to what and what time in the day were we looking at?
[00:13:53] And then DHEA. That’s actually a hormone precursor. So it turns into estrogen [00:14:00] and testosterone and then there’s obviously, you know, there’s hormones of mood like dopamine and oxytocin and endorphins. But let’s stay focused just on the sex hormones for now and then we can always add more. They’re really going to be regulating our menstrual cycle and our ovulation, our energy level, our mood.
[00:14:23] And so if you’re menstruating, it tells me you’re ovulating. The things I want you to know is the first half of your cycle is what’s called estrogen dominant. Okay? Some people know it as the follicular phase. I break down into four seasons. So our bleeding time would be our winter time.
[00:14:42] The next week would be our springtime. That’s where estrogen is building. It’s very proliferative. Okay. Estrogen builds. It builds our endometrial lining, which would be the place where implantation would take place if we got pregnant. It builds breast tissue. It builds resiliency. It builds confidence. It [00:15:00] helps build muscle mass and helps build collagen.
[00:15:04] And so that’s a time where we’re very resilient, okay, we can be out in the world and creative and brainstorming with the team. Our lights are shining outside, which means we’re not going to take so many things personally. And then we move into our ovulatory phase when we’re ovulating and now we have estrogen, progesterone and testosterone.
[00:15:26] Which is gonna give us confidence and a strong sense of libido and more energy and we have this kind of super magnetic sense, okay? That’s the time for a woman, if she wants to push heavy weight at the gym or push an intermittent fast, her body’s super resilient. You can go out and have the tough conversations with your boss or your husband and you’re not gonna necessarily take it personally.
[00:15:52] And so assuming you ovulate, ovulation is considered the main event, and it’s what stimulates production of [00:16:00] progesterone. Now we move into our luteal phase or the fall time, which is progesterone heavy. And progesterone is like the hormone, I always think of it as satin. It’s very soft. It’s soothing.
[00:16:16] It’s nourishing. It’s nurturing. It’s the hormone of the mother. It’s what helps maintain pregnancy, but it’s also a hormone that will hide. If we have a lot of stress, it’s a hormone that needs carbohydrates to be produced. So if we’re pushing the stress levels, pushing, you know, a reduced caloric intake time with intermittent fasting.
[00:16:41] or push too hard with exercise, progesterone won’t be produced. Progesterone helps maintain our mood stability. What can happen is sometimes that can be the PMS time, where we’re just a little bit more like a viper, a little bit more feisty. Our inner critic is [00:17:00] elevated at this point, and when the estrogen time our springtime was when all the lights were on externally and water could just roll off our back like a duck during this progesterone dominant time lights are on inside, so we feel more.
[00:17:17] Like a longing for nourishment. We’re more likely to take things personally, okay? And then all the hormones go down and we bleed. So for a woman who comes to me and she’s having menstrual migraines, heavy bleeding irregular bleeding, hot flashes, these are all signs of things being off with estrogen and progesterone.
[00:17:40] And what we can do is we can look at the rhythm of when they’re happening. mixed with the rhythm of her bleeding and it tells me a lot. I could go on and on, but when you think about, for you personally, or your audience, any specific direction you want me to take that?
[00:17:57] Desiree Stanley: First of all, I have to say, Maraya, thank you so much for [00:18:00] sharing all of that detail. That was fantastic. There was so many things in there. I had no idea, honestly, and as you just described, the cycle, And relating it to the different seasons of a year, I think that was fantastic. And what a great way to visualize it as you were really detailing all of the specifics in the different types of hormones that are in play in the different periods.
[00:18:27] So I think that was just tremendous. So thank you so much for that. And really, I feel we certainly could go any number of direction from this point in our conversation, but I want to talk about what you shared in there. And that’s the point of doing the blood work. And how it is almost like what time of day did this get taken, you know, and really, I would have had no idea that could play into the results that you’re going to get in these numbers.
[00:18:59] And I [00:19:00] think that’s a fair point that we need to consider when we’re getting these types of lab work completed and we’re getting these results and we’re like what does this mean? And should I be concerned? You know, we also need to take into account. When did it occur in the day? And also perhaps when did it occur in our cycle?
[00:19:20] Maraya Brown: Totally. Totally. Because just take what I just said, if, okay, let’s talk about some tests. Everybody, you’re going to want pen and paper. So first, progesterone, it’s not just What’s my estrogen and what is my progesterone? But what is the relationship between the two of them? And once again, if you have your blood drawn, if you’re still ovulating, if you have your blood drawn in the first half of the cycle, Of course, there’s not going to be very much progesterone, whereas if you have the blood drone during your luteal phase or your fall time where progesterone is the [00:20:00] predominant hormone, we should see that your estrogen and your progesterone are at pretty equal levels.
[00:20:06] And so generally for me, when I’m looking at a woman’s hormones, my favorite test right now, there’s no perfect test. I interview people on my podcast all the time. I’m always looking. Everybody thinks this one’s the best or that one’s the best. I don’t think that there’s a perfect test right now, but the one that I like the best that I consistently go to is called the DUTCH plus test.
[00:20:27] And I’m able to look at a woman and a man, but we’re talking about women mainly here. I’m able to look at a woman’s estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, as well as a 24 hour cortisol curve, and what does her body do with those hormones? How does she detoxify? How does she what’s called methylate? And and that’s always done between day 18 and 22 of her menstrual cycle.
[00:20:54] And so I know, okay, this is what’s fair to expect with estrogen and progesterone [00:21:00] and testosterone at this point in your menstrual cycle. Let’s look at where it is. If there’s a big gap and estrogen is super high and progesterone is super low, that woman has likely been diagnosed with fibroids. Maybe she has fibrocystic breasts.
[00:21:15] Maybe she has really painful menstrual cycles, heavy bleeds pretty intense irritability during the PMS time. She might also have a predisposition towards estrogen dependent cancers. And so then I can look at, okay, what does her body do with the estrogen? And there are three different pathways that a woman will methylate down.
[00:21:38] And that’s a predisposed through genetics. And so I can go in with lifestyle and supplementation and diet modification to help shift that. Because once again, Our genes load the gun, our lifestyle is what pulls the trigger. So just because we were handed a [00:22:00] specific genetic code does not mean that we are predestined.
[00:22:04] And so the DUTCH Plus test, we’re looking through urine and we’re looking through saliva. Now, when it comes to thyroid testing, that’s going to be done via blood. But for all of you, when you’re done with this podcast or maybe push pause and go see if you can find your most recent blood work, very likely your provider ordered what’s called a TSH.
[00:22:26] That’s a thyroid stimulating hormone. It doesn’t actually come from your thyroid. It comes from your pituitary, but it’s in communication with your thyroid. I want to see your TSH between one and two. Okay, so if you’re someone who’s feeling sluggish, putting on extra weight, can’t sleep feel cold all the time maybe sad, maybe lean towards constipation, and your TSH is above two, it is very possible that you have an undiagnosed sluggish thyroid that’s just been missed.
[00:22:59] So [00:23:00] thyroid, I want to see a TSH, a free T4, a free T3, and your thyroid antibodies. The other test that is one of my favorites that is really related to this conversation and it might surprise you is called a GI map. So it’s actually a poop test, looks at your stool. So our gut microbiome is directly related to our hormonal well being, it’s directly related to our mood and our brain fog and our energy level, our body’s ability to absorb the nutrients from the food that we eat.
[00:23:33] 90 percent of our serotonin comes from our gut, 70 percent of our immune system exists in our gut. It’s the second brain. And so when we’re looking at testing with the poop test, it can be any time in the month. Thyroid test, same thing. Anytime in the day, anytime of the month. Whereas, if we’re doing the DUTCH plus test, that’s going to be between day 18 and 22, or if you’re beyond menopause at any point, but they’re collecting [00:24:00] at distinct points throughout the day.
[00:24:03] So I can see, all right, what is the curve here? For some women, their adrenals wake up great. But then spike right before bed and I go, ah, now that explains a lot why you’re not sleeping. Maybe I made the assumption that it’s that they’re overdoing it on caffeine or they’re having estrogen drops while they’re sleeping, which is activating adrenaline and waking them up.
[00:24:28] Or maybe I could have assumed that they had blood sugar dysregulation and go that route. But if I can look at a 24 hour cortisol curve and I go, oh, it’s your cortisol that’s spiking. Now, what can we do to help your adrenals and your stress levels during that specific time in the day?
[00:24:44] And voila, now you’re sleeping well. Yeah. So just because your provider has told you that they’ve tested you for whatever it is that you think that you have, I want you to really stay in self advocacy. For the [00:25:00] first eight years I was in practice, I just didn’t know any better. And I was ordering the same tests and I was also, Oh, okay, hot flashes.
[00:25:08] You can go on antidepressants or you could go on the pill or HRT. What do you want? That’s what I was taught. And I was doing the best with what I had, but then as I had my own health scare, and then I was introduced to the Institute of Functional Medicine, and I did a deep dive, I’ve always believed in food as medicine, but as it’s grown, I go, wow, there’s so much more here.
[00:25:30] That we can look at. Yeah. 
[00:25:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Again, Maraya, so much knowledge that you are just dishing out to us right now. And I love that you said, pause and take some notes and talk to your doctor about these things, because that’s fantastic. I think we really, like you pointed out, do need to be our own biggest advocate when we’re talking to our healthcare providers [00:26:00] to make sure that.
[00:26:01] You know, they’re not dismissing something just out of hand. I love that. And again the detail of information that you have provided to us has just been phenomenal. Thank you so much. I’m sure the listeners are going to have to like pause, rewind, listen again, because there’s just so much great information here.
[00:26:21] But I want to switch gears a little bit now and talk about, you share five hacks, if you will, that are related to libido and specifically about how you can be turned on with your life, be turned on with your lover and with yourself. And I’m so excited to learn more about this.
[00:26:45] So share that with us now, if you would. 
[00:26:47] Maraya Brown: Oh, my five hacks. That was probably from one of my episodes. And one thing just to say if that last piece around all of the testing left you overwhelmed and you don’t know where to start, just reach out.
[00:26:59] [00:27:00] Okay. I have clients in three different continents, I think five different countries right now. And I can just order all of your labs for you. So just know that if you’re like, I don’t know where to begin or I live in a small town or I’ve gone to providers, just reach out and we’ll figure something out.
[00:27:18] Okay. So hack number one would be, I think you mentioned it. It’s acknowledging that we want to feel turned on by our life, our lover and ourselves. I think sometimes when we’re talking about libido we put it in this box of it being just our sexual desire, but desire is desire. Pleasure is pleasure and so the more that we can expand a lifestyle of pleasure to be able to drink some, you know, I have this amazing water bottle with my crystal inside of it and I want to take a sip of it and really feel it go down my throat and allow myself to experience pleasure. That’s going to [00:28:00] influence my libido.
[00:28:02] I want to look outside the window and acknowledge the beauty in the clouds right now in the blue skies. It’s about for all of us to expand our experience of pleasure so that it’s not just in the confines of our sexuality, but do I feel turned on by the life that I’m waking up to? Do I feel turned on by the way in which I’m looking at myself in the mirror?
[00:28:28] Do I feel turned on by my lover? And often what happens is I’ll say, Is it that you’re not turned on by what your lover is providing you, is offering you? And if we dig specifically into libido in the realm of sensuality and sexuality, particularly for individuals that are in heterosexual relationships, there’s a big discrepancy in this feminine and masculine energy.
[00:28:55] Sometimes we’re just not turned on by what’s being [00:29:00] offered. And so we have the privilege of being able to speak up for ourselves. and communicate what does turn us on. Okay. To really say all right, how am I taking steps each day to expand how I feel turned on by myself, who I’m being, not just what I’m doing.
[00:29:18] By my life, the way that I’m approaching it, through what mind’s eye am I choosing to see the world and my lover. Number two is my mindset. I think libido is probably 80 to 90 percent in our brain. And, 10, max 20 percent physiologic. So of course I’ll talk about the hormones of libido, but really, am I allowing myself to receive? Am I acknowledging that for the most part, a woman’s arousal system is responsive, whereas a male bodied individual’s arousal system is spontaneous? Meaning for most men, they’re ready to go. They see a naked woman, they’re turned on, and [00:30:00] they’re erect, good to go. Whereas for most women, our arousal is responsive.
[00:30:05] We are responding based on our love language, right? If your love language is gifts, and someone gave you a fresh bouquet of roses. And acts of service really goes a long way for you and someone swept the floors or did an errand for you or gave you a foot rub. That is part of a woman’s arousal system and it is goes on all day long.
[00:30:31] So there’s a lot of spaciousness for those of us that are in heterosexual relationships to have, and even non heterosexual, but just to have conversations with, ah, what is it that actually turns me on? And I’m not ready just like that. But I need to feel heard and I need to feel seen and maybe I need a little bit of spaciousness to wind down from my day and turn my brain off.
[00:30:58] Or for some, [00:31:00] I have to have the door locked because I’m afraid the kids are going to walk in the door. Or actually, I need to be out of my house. Because if there’s any chance of my kids hearing me, it’s not going to happen, right? So just navigating this relationship with our arousal, our love languages, and acknowledging that there are big differences between a male bodied individual and a female bodied individual, and not to judge it, But to embrace it and find ways to communicate and ask and explore and be in curiosity.
[00:31:34] Next I’ll talk about hormones. So you know the big hormones that play with libido, testosterone is one of them and cortisol is the other. So cortisol is that fight, flight, or freeze or fawn hormone of the adrenals. It helps us keep us safe, but it is kryptonite to the libido, okay?
[00:31:53] Cortisol is kryptonite to the libido. If we are stressed out or preoccupied, [00:32:00] there will be no juiciness happening downstairs.
[00:32:03] And so for women I love Alison Armstrong. She studied the male and female brain for decades and she says that women have what’s called diffuse awareness, where we’re aware of all things at all times. So I can walk downstairs and I can see that there’s books that need to be put away and dishes that need to be done.
[00:32:21] I’m thinking of the appointments that need to be made, the podcast interview that I’m going to do, getting the kids on time, the dog knocked over the water, whatever it is. But all of these things are literally yelling at me at equal decibel of sound. Whereas for a male brained individual there is not diffuse awareness.
[00:32:43] It’s singular awareness. They’re hunting. Find the deer, shoot the deer, carry the deer home. So how many men, I love this example Alison Armstrong gives where he looks in the pantry and he’s looking for refried beans. There’s no refried beans in here. I’m going to the store. I’m going [00:33:00] to go get it. And then you go and all you had to do was move the beans out.
[00:33:03] It’s like right behind, but there’s just like single focus. When we have stress level that’s high, We’re caring for all people, juggling all the balls, multitasking, and all of these things are yelling at us at equal decibel of sound. It’s emotional labor that is playing in the background, and it’s kryptonite to our libido.
[00:33:25] So for each of us to get clear with how do I wind down, how do I prioritize myself and so that’s going to help the cortisol levels go down, which helps arousal come up, testosterone. Some women end up trying testosterone creams from a bio identical perspective. Things that can help your testosterone level.
[00:33:45] Number one is quality sleep. The majority of our testosterone is produced when we get quality sleep. Number two is weight bearing exercise. I would start there. Sometimes some bioidentical testosterone can make a difference. [00:34:00] The research shows that it has statistically significant impact on a woman’s experience of orgasm specifically and enhancing that.
[00:34:09] And one of the things as women progress through perimenopause and into menopause is often, it’s not just vaginal dryness and pain, but almost like a numbing effect. Women will say to me, they just don’t have as much sensation down there. It’s like all of a sudden there’s a veil. So it’s taking them a lot longer to reach orgasm.
[00:34:30] And so from a testosterone perspective, sometimes that’s helpful, but also vaginal DHEA. can be helpful. There is something called an O shot or PRP. There’s vaginal rejuvenation. There’s a lot of different things that can be done vaginally just to wake up that area. And I think the last thing that I want to talk about is erotic blueprint.
[00:34:51] I love erotic blueprint. Jaya Love developed an erotic blueprint quiz. I can give you the link. It’s a free quiz. There’s a version [00:35:00] for $17, I say just do the free one. And it’s like exploring your love languages. You know, is my love language quality time? Is it acts of service? Is it touch?
[00:35:11] In the same way, erotic blueprints, is my erotic blueprint sexual or energetic or kinky, shapeshifter and when you do the quiz, I think it’s really fun if you’re in partnership for both of you to do the quiz at the same time and then right afterwards a little video pops up describing your erotic blueprint type and it’s Oh, there can be these moments of no wonder.
[00:35:35] In my scenario, my husband is energetic and I’m sensual. And we didn’t know this for the first 16 years of our marriage. And then it was like, no wonder, like in his scenario, lovemaking is like this esoteric experience where he sees colors and you know, doesn’t necessarily even need touch. Whereas for me if there’s a [00:36:00] pile of laundry in this corner of the room, I’m completely preoccupied. I’ll get caught up in my head and I’m like, Oh gosh, wait, my body, the lotion and aromatherapy and music goes a really long way aesthetics of the room. And long extended foreplay, but I’m sensual.
[00:36:18] And so as we both understood this about one another and explored it, we went wow! We’re better understanding one another, but more than anything, I’m better understanding myself I can be in the place of self advocacy. So I’m understanding my arousal system. I’m understanding my turn ons and my turn offs.
[00:36:39] I’m asking for support and help. I’m playing around being curious with my erotic blueprint. I’m getting support with my hormonal vitality and foundation, right? And sometimes that’s better nutrition. Sometimes that’s getting your stool testing to see what’s going on there, there’s a [00:37:00] lot of factors here, but they all influence our libido.
[00:37:03] And then I mentioned feeling turned on by your life, your lover, and yourself. We’re once again, we don’t exist in a silo. It’s not like you’re just going to go get a testosterone pellet and voila, everything’s fixed. If you feel really unfulfilled by your life or you don’t feel filled up by the dynamic of your partnership and you don’t feel turned on by what’s being offered to you.
[00:37:28] You don’t feel heard and seen. Yeah. Hopefully that helps. 
[00:37:32] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. It was so helpful. And the tools that you just shared, the resources, I will for sure include those in the show notes for the listeners to go check out, because I think that’s phenomenal. Anytime that we can learn about ourselves and how we just are innately.
[00:37:53] I think that’s just phenomenal. We can grow so much from there. And in partnership, like you [00:38:00] suggested, having both partners take the quiz and discover if maybe this has been the key or the factor that you haven’t really been on the same page. And now you can explore how do we get there together.
[00:38:14] And so I love that. And the point that you made about. Women, can walk into a room and you see the 15, 000 things that need to be done or handled, and the man just sees the one thing and the description of trying to find an item, whether it’s the refrigerator, the cupboard, the pantry, you know, wherever it’s like.
[00:38:38] Just slide something over and there it is. It’s I think every woman who is listening can relate to that experience because that has happened in their life. I know for sure it’s been mine. So thank you again, Maraya, for the detail that you have just shared with us is just fantastic. I love it [00:39:00] so much.
[00:39:01] I feel like we could just continue this conversation because we have just barely scratched the surface. But I know you’ve mentioned your podcast and I want you to talk to us a little bit about that so that the listeners can find out more about what you’re discussing and follow you for more information because you go into so much more depth. On your show. 
[00:39:23] Maraya Brown: Yeah. It’s called the Women’s Vibrancy Code Podcast. We’re right around, as we’re recording this, I think I’m around episode like 107. So there’s a lot that’s there. Usually there are guest experts as well as solo episodes and it’s a lot of what I’ve already talked about.
[00:39:40] I would just go and explore, scroll through, and you can, it’s on all of the platforms. You can also just go to MarayaBrown. com and then you can see on the top tab, oh, and Maraya is spelled all with A’s, so it’s M A R A Y A. M A R A Y A BrownLikeTheColor. com, click on [00:40:00] podcast and you can see all the episodes there as well.
[00:40:03] And binge, have some fun. Please leave a review. Share with friends. It’s my way to offer up my knowledge and amazing guest experts for free to the masses. And it’s a really fun journey to do. There’s been some amazing experts that I’m humbled, even Alison Armstrong, the one that I referenced.
[00:40:25] She’s way back in like my first 10 episodes, I want to say that one was a fun one, it’s definitely worth taking a peek. And I really am very approachable. You know, I keep my practice small and intimate, whether it’s women’s retreats or a year long deep dive that includes, one on one and group community as well as testing.
[00:40:47] There’s a membership, there’s personalized packages that are all one on one, and I have a team of master coaches. So just reach out if any of this leaves you feeling curious it’s fun [00:41:00] to be able to support women and ironically now supporting men as well So over the last couple years many of my female clients have brought in their husbands or their brothers or their friends.
[00:41:12] And so now that’s been a fun nuance to add in as well. 
[00:41:17] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Thank you for sharing that with us. Definitely I’ll include that information in the show notes, your website, the podcast information so the listeners can find you. And one of the things I always love to ask my guests is if there’s any books that they have found beneficial or influential that they would like to share with the listeners.
[00:41:37] So is there something you’d like to share with us? 
[00:41:40] Maraya Brown: Yeah okay. Let’s think. Seat of the Soul. I don’t know if, have you read Seed of the Soul? I think that’s one of those that for so many reasons is worth a read from more of a personal development, esoteric, who I want to be in the world, answering broader questions.
[00:41:57] And that’s near and dear to me because Gary [00:42:00] Zukav, who’s the author is a dear friend. He’s spends Christmas and Thanksgiving with us. And over the last four years, I’ve had the opportunity to be in the room with some legends, you know, celebrity status, people who’ve established great wealth and lead large groups of people and one of the things that’s amazing about Gary is he really walks his talk. Like he is such a consistent human being and everything that is in that book, I promise you I have spent so much time with this man and he really lives and breathes it. So Seat of the Soul, I’ve got to put that in.
[00:42:39] I’ve mentioned Alison Armstrong a few times. And so for anyone who’s on audible, Celebrating Partnership is a workshop that she did and it’s recorded. I think it’s so potent, so powerful to listen to. And then the other thing I would add is right now my husband and I are reading [00:43:00] together Way of the Superior Man by David Deida .
[00:43:04] And at first I felt confronted by it. When I read the table of contents, it was like, no, and I don’t want him to read it. But along my journey, you know, we didn’t touch on this, but there’s so much around feminine and masculine energy and my business grew really fast. And so July of 2021 as a family, we decided to bring my husband home as a stay at home dad.
[00:43:27] And there were a lot of reasons why we made that decision partially because my work is virtual and we wanted to travel. But also fires came through my valley where I live and it was a really traumatizing day for me and I haven’t felt ready to be here in Southern Oregon in the summertime. And so we opted to bring him home and he was playing a fractional CFO and it worked until it really didn’t work.
[00:43:53] And what I realized is in our relationship dynamic and family dynamic, I [00:44:00] really, respect a man who has his own vision and his own thing that he brings home to the family unit. It’s not even about money. And that got degraded. And so what ended up happening is I stepped more into my masculine and here I was running a business.
[00:44:19] The breadwinner for the family and he slowly felt more and more depleted and I think he became sad I think it just really wasn’t working. And so right now in these last four to five months We’re actively recalibrating and he’s back doing what he loves and in his Masculine energy and bringing it back and I feel this sense of Like being cared for there’s this there’s a new sense of safety where I can then surrender Into my feminine in new and spectacular ways that serve the family dynamic even better and so right now we’re reading together Way of the Superior Man, and it’s been really lovely for both of us [00:45:00] for me to look at as an ambitious woman Who maybe emasculated her husband a little bit too much to be able to check myself and also for him to find new ways in his own chapter of recalibration and finding a new version of him to stand in his own masculine power.
[00:45:21] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, excellent. Great recommendations. Thank you so much for sharing those. I will for sure include that detail in the show notes. Besides your podcast Maraya, is there any others that you enjoy listening that you’d like to share with us? 
[00:45:36] Maraya Brown: Oh, that’s fun what are some of my top right now? I’m thinking around the ones that I listen to most often. The Goop podcast, I love me some Gwyneth Paltrow.
[00:45:48] What’s the Juice by Organic Olivia. When I want to geek out on nutrition and adrenal wellbeing and herbs, I will say her episodes are lengthy. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to listen [00:46:00] to an entire episode, but that’s always fun. And and then the DUTCH company, when I referenced. my favorite test to look at adrenals and hormones and detoxification.
[00:46:11] It’s the DUTCH company D U T C H it stands for Dried Urine Total Comprehensive Hormones. They have their own podcast. So it’s called the DUTCH podcast. And as a healthcare provider, I definitely geek out on that one. And I love listening and digging into nuances of the test for all the listeners.
[00:46:30] That one might not be as much fun for you though. 
[00:46:33] Desiree Stanley: But excellent recommendations. Again, thank you for sharing them and nice variety too. I think you’ve got, some fun stuff and some more serious in depth topics. And so great recommendations for the listeners to check out. 
[00:46:48] And lastly, Maraya, before we close out, would you share again with us, your website and any other socials where people can follow along and your journey and what you’re doing and reach out to you if [00:47:00] they have questions. 
[00:47:01] Maraya Brown: Sure. So as long as you remember Maraya Brown, M A R A Y A, color brown, you’re going to be able to find me.

[00:47:07] So Marayabrown.com. I’ve got a lot of free resources on the site, some blogs the podcast and you know, you’re welcome to just click on, get started, fill out the application and let’s have a chat. And then, from a social media perspective, you’re mainly going to find me on Facebook and Instagram, so Maraya Brown.
[00:47:27] On Instagram there is an underscore at the beginning and the end of my name. My YouTube channel, Maraya Brown. LinkedIn, Maraya Brown, although I’m not there very much, it’s one of the things on the to do list at some point. And even email. It’s Maraya@MarayaBrown.Com. Like I said, I’m very approachable.
[00:47:46] You’re welcome to just reach out and say, here’s what I’m struggling with, here’s what I’ve tried and can you help? I will say that most of the clients that I work with tend to be ambitious. They’re [00:48:00] not willing to go belly up to status quo and they are ready to invest with time, energy, and money. This is not a done for you or a quick fix.
[00:48:12] It’s done with you. But I do vet the clients that I say yes to and I need to know that you’re going to be willing to take the steps and actually make some shifts, sometimes subtle, sometimes big with nutrition and lifestyle and mindset and supplementation. And we find a package that works for you.
[00:48:33] Maybe it starts with coming to one of the retreats, depending on when this goes live. My next retreat is April 12th, 13th and 14th in Ashland, Oregon. And I hand select who’s brought into that space. And maybe it starts with the membership. Maybe it starts with just let’s do some simple testing and have a couple of visits.
[00:48:53] And maybe you’re someone who you’re like no, this is it, this is what I’ve been looking for. I want the deep dive. [00:49:00] I want the full transformation. And that’s when I’m like, yeah, girl, let’s go. That’s who I love talking to is the woman who says, I know I want to live a spectacular existence to have total vitality.
[00:49:16] And I know that my foundational wellness is getting in my way because I’m tired. I’m looking in the mirror and I’m not feeling confident. I’m not feeling turned on. I’m struggling with bloating and gassiness or sleep deprivation or hot flashes or irritability, PMS, whatever it may be like, let’s get that out of the way so that the lights turn on in the room.
[00:49:37] And now we get to turn your life on fire. And that’s when we really have a lot of fun. 
[00:49:43] Desiree Stanley: Oh that’s amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. And you know, that’s a hundred percent valid. You have got to be invested in making the difference in your life. If you want the changes to happen, you can’t just expect it to be [00:50:00] overnight or that it’s just going to be like that.
[00:50:02] Or, I’m not really going to have to put the effort in, if you want real lasting change, you’ve got to put the effort in, right? 
[00:50:09] Maraya Brown: Yeah, but and the key is you use the word lasting because we either invest now or we end up paying way more later. It’s like brushing your teeth or flossing, I don’t brush my teeth thinking this feels so good that I’m not getting a cavity right now, but I still do it.
[00:50:29] And if I don’t, we all know the consequences in the long run. Yes. And so you have the privilege of being able to invest now and we get to celebrate the prevention of the things that we will never know that we prevented. And the turning of the ship, so to speak, to go the trajectory currently is not what I want.
[00:50:51] Turn the ship.
[00:50:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Tremendous. Oh my gosh, Maraya. Thank you again so much for joining us on the show and [00:51:00] sharing all of this amazing knowledge with us. I can’t thank you enough. It’s been wonderful. And I’ve so appreciated your time. Thank you again. 
[00:51:09] Maraya Brown: Of course. Thank you for having me. 
[00:51:12] Desiree Stanley: We’ll talk more soon.
[00:51:13] Maraya Brown: Good.
[00:51:14] Desiree Stanley: Thank you, dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.
[00:51:34] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Jodi Rumack Podcast_03_13_2024 

[00:00:00] Welcome to the pockets of knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:22] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my guest, Jodi Rumack. How are you today, Jodi? 

[00:00:32] Jodi Rumack: I’m good. Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:35] Desiree Stanley: Absolutely. I’m so excited to have you on the show. You are the owner and founder of Jodi Rumack Coaching, and you’re going to be talking about that with us. 

[00:00:45] And there’s a specific twist to the coaching that you do. It’s not necessarily coaching one on one with clients. You’re working with other coaches in helping them to launch and [00:01:00] scale a group coaching environment. But you’re going to share more about all of that with us as we get going. 

[00:01:06] And I always love to have my guests start with how this came to be for them. What led you down this path? 

[00:01:14] Jodi Rumack: Okay. I spent my most of my career in corporate fitness. I was a personal trainer. I was a manager. I was a club manager. I opened clubs all across Canada. And then I was a regional manager for the personal training department. 

[00:01:33] So I kind of did the corporate ladder thing. And then at the end of that, I actually was fired. Pivotal moment. Not something that, we want to go through. But everything happens for a reason. So I was let go from that job. It was a job I really loved to do. And I decided that I was going to start my own and I was going to basically recreate the [00:02:00] job that I had for myself. 

[00:02:03] I actually started that back in 2013 and there to prove to myself, mostly. That I could do what I was supposed to be doing in my job. And that’s what I did. So I ended up starting as a fitness business coach. I was working with brick and mortar clubs and studios at the time. I did that for five years. 

[00:02:28] That business was successful. But I. There was some challenges with the reoccurring revenue and with knowing the consistent income. And so I actually ended up getting a job in 2018. That was not easy either, but it was what I needed to do at the time in life and in business, and the business was doing well. 

[00:02:52] I just didn’t have the consistency that I wanted, so I went and did the job. I stayed there for about a year and a half. I actually worked for My [00:03:00] Online Coach in her seven figure business as the head coach, and then I was there about 18 months and I went back out on my own. When I went back on my own, I knew that I had to create reoccurring revenue, right? 

[00:03:13] I couldn’t just count on having a really big month, typically followed by a not so great month. When I started doing that, I decided to do group coaching, which is actually what I had done in my corporate job. And so I did group coaching with reoccurring revenue and I was able to hit a $100k within 16 months of launching business number two. 

[00:03:35] Desiree Stanley: Wow. That’s exciting. Thank you for sharing that journey with us. And I think that it’s important to hear that we can go through those, moments that aren’t pretty, don’t feel good, and we can bounce back from that. And also the twists and turns. 

[00:03:53] I think that, this is typical, but we don’t think about it that way. We think like it should go from [00:04:00] point A to point B and no detours in between, but that so rarely happens, right? 

[00:04:06] Jodi Rumack: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:04:08] Desiree Stanley: Let’s talk a little bit about once you began this new rendition of your coaching and working with other coaches to kind of help them really work on this prioritizing and planning productivity, so it’s, it gives them some time freedom. So walk us through that a little bit. 

[00:04:32] Jodi Rumack: Yeah. I think the biggest thing for me was wanting to have that time freedom, in a corporate life, if people have been through that, you’re working all hours these days, you’re not off when you’re off, you’re always on the clock, you might be on vacation, you’re still answering emails like. 

[00:04:50] All of that stuff. And so I really wanted to create time freedom for myself and be able to pass that onto others. And I think [00:05:00] like some of the biggest challenges that I see are that people really struggle to prioritize what they actually need to do. And so they spend all this time doing all kinds of different things when really there’s maybe. 

[00:05:16] Five or 10 percent of that’s actually going to get them the results that they’re looking for. so I, really like to try to focus on that one thing and helping them prioritize what they need to be doing and making sure that they’re focusing on one thing at a time so that They can actually get it done, start to finish and really, repeat and reiterate and do all of those things rather than trying a million different things and never repeating anything. 

[00:05:44] And you never know what’s actually working if you don’t keep doing the same thing over for a little while. So I think that’s just such a big part of it. And that’s how I’ve been able to create a six figure business, but. Only working about 30 hours a [00:06:00] week. 

[00:06:00] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. I’m sure a lot of the listeners would appreciate that kind of work life balance there. Something that sparked from what you said is you trying all these things and it’s like throwing just random darts at stuff and you have no idea what’s actually working and it’s, it also is kind of like that shiny object syndrome. And I think that so many of us Who are entrepreneurs or even just, in our daily lives, we get easily distracted. 

[00:06:32] Pick something up, put it down and we’ve never finished whatever that task was. Yeah. So maybe if you want to share some ideas around that, like staying focused, what do you have some suggestions? 

[00:06:45] Jodi Rumack: I do. In the online space, it is so easy to get distracted with all the different people, right? And all the strategies and all the things you could try and all that stuff. So there’s a few things. One is I would start by choosing two or three people [00:07:00] you really like, follow them and leave the rest out. 

[00:07:05] Okay, so that’s one because I know for at least for me, and maybe you did this too. When I first started, I listened to everybody. I listen to all the podcasts, watched all the webinars. You know what I mean? Like you take in so much and then you just get confused. So I think one of the things is choosing two or three people to follow and sticking to it. 

[00:07:28] And I think the next thing is like I said a little bit already is. Choose the strategy that you’re going to try, but do it over and over again. We can’t just do one thing one time, and if it doesn’t work, think it will never work, right? It will work. But we need to make some tweaks. 

[00:07:48] If you’re deciding not to do it because you didn’t enjoy it, it didn’t feel good, there was something off okay, I understand, make a change. But if it’s just because you didn’t get enough people, [00:08:00] or you didn’t make as much money as you thought, or whatever the situation is, it’s take the same thing, refine it, look at it, figure out what did work, Figure out what didn’t, make some changes and try it again. 

[00:08:16] Because otherwise, how are you ever going to know what actually worked and what didn’t if you just keep doing different stuff all the time, right? Yeah, that’s an excellent point. Yeah, so thank you. So I just think try to stay with one thing. Like I know it’s hard for people because they want to do all the things and it’s exciting and it’s fun. 

[00:08:36] And if you’re a long time learner, you always want to learn and try and listen and all the things. But the thing that’s going to get you there faster is doing one and then the second piece to that would be personal connections. It’s so easy again in the online spaces to think, I want to make money when I’m sleeping. 

[00:08:57] Everyone wants their phone to ding, ding all night [00:09:00] long, right? As I always say, like at the beginning, until you get to the revenue that you want to make every month. Personal connection first. So everyone else talks about build your email list and do all these fancy challenges and do all these fancy masterclasses and all this stuff. 

[00:09:18] And it’s you can do that, but you don’t have to do that. Let’s get into the direct messages, go to networking events in person, even even if your business is online or never networking online is cool too, but create that personal connection with people because the number one differentiator between you and someone else who’s doing the same type of coaching as you are is you. 

[00:09:44] So the more we can get to know them, it’s that personal branding piece. The more they get to know you, the faster they’re going to convert. 

[00:09:53] Desiree Stanley: Good stuff there for sure. And Jodi, I want to talk a little bit more about what you said. Try it more than [00:10:00] once. We want like instant results in just about every part of our lives. 

[00:10:05] And I think that this is the case where we can’t just try it once and be like, Oh, it didn’t work and then move on to the next thing. It’s like you’ve got to keep trying and keep trying. And that’s take some perseverance, right? Until it gets to a point when you go, okay, this absolutely isn’t working. 

[00:10:21] And now I need to try a new strategy, not one and done is not, that’s not going to cut it. No. Yeah. So that’s excellent. No. Excellent reminder. For sure. Well, okay. So then let’s talk a little bit about, you mentioned the individual kind of one on one connection and establishing that and then leading from that point into building community, and communities of people. 

[00:10:49] So why don’t you share with us kind of some thoughts on that? 

[00:10:53] Jodi Rumack: Yeah. Again, it’s like the belief behind it is that proximity wins. That’s what [00:11:00] I always tell my people. Proximity wins. The closer you can be to them, the faster they’re going to become your clients. So personal invitations, it’s like when you go online, you think I’m going to write all these emails and I’m going to build this email list and I’m going to send these out and people are going to buy and I don’t even know them. 

[00:11:17] And yes, that’s the goal, at the beginning, as you’re building a brand as you’re trying to get people to know and trust you, the personal invitation has to happen first. Let’s say I do have an email list. Let’s say I have a hundred people on it. The conversion rate on email is between one and three percent. 

[00:11:36] If I talk to a hundred people in direct messages, I can convert ten of them. So let’s do that. You want to build fast? Let’s do that. Direct messages is like a big one. And the other one is hosting virtual events. And usually I teach people to start with virtual dinner parties, which is literally like, We’re going to dinner with 10 of your friends [00:12:00] at a restaurant, but we’re online. 

[00:12:02] And it’s a really simple way for people to create the event, get it done, post it, they don’t have to create a million slides. They don’t have to know how to sell from stage. They don’t have to know any of that stuff. You can literally show up, give a little bit of content, a three steps to or a five steps to type of content piece, 10 minutes. create discussion, create the community feel that you want to have in your group coaching program, right? And then invite them personally to book a call with you. So everything is personal and getting to know them. And then when you get into messaging people and you’re talking to them, you’ve actually, you actually have some kind of like basis for your relationship, right? 

[00:12:53] And now instead of messaging you and saying, people get these kinds of direct messages all the time, right? Oh, I thought you’d be [00:13:00] interested in X, Y, and Z without having ever spoken to you first. Now I get to go into the message and say, Hey, I remember when we met at the virtual dinner party that you mentioned X, Y, and Z. 

[00:13:13] I’m hosting a live training next week. I think you should come are you interested? Yes Great, please send me the link, right? So it’s just a bit of a different vibe in the way that we connect with people rather than assuming things or doing things without even really knowing who they are. 

[00:13:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, that’s a hundred percent accurate right there. I think that we, and I say we, because I’m seeing it for myself too, is, the message that just doesn’t hit because you know you have no real connection with this person and so it 

[00:13:48] Feels false 

[00:13:49] Jodi Rumack: Yeah, they’ve sent the same message to hundreds of people, right? 

[00:13:52] Desiree Stanley: Yeah 

[00:13:52] Jodi Rumack: But if they know and listen, you can’t have that close connection with thousands of people But you can have [00:14:00] it with 100 or 150 is usually around the number of actual connections you can really have. And when you go into your Facebook group or your Instagram or wherever you’re communicating with your people, I always like to have, let’s say, 20 to 30 people who you really know, right? 

[00:14:20] And eventually, they become clients or they move on or something happens. And then. You create that again, right? You have more people that you’re meeting through your events, through the direct messages, and you always have this pool of people who you are really strongly connected to, and then you can personally invite them into your programs. 

[00:14:39] Yeah, good stuff. Salesy and yuffy. 

[00:14:42] Desiree Stanley: Yes, exactly. Nobody likes that. Nobody wants to be, sold feel like they’re being, some sleazy sale kind of thing. That doesn’t feel good for anybody, really. Exactly. Well, so then let’s talk about in that building, kind of those events [00:15:00] in those communities. 

[00:15:01] And, is it personal preference in terms of, if Facebook is everywhere, you can’t get away from Facebook. So does that seem to be the best place to, establish these kind of communities? Are you finding something 

[00:15:14] else works? 

[00:15:15] Jodi Rumack: That’s a really great question. 

[00:15:16] I think a lot of people Again, get caught up in this wanting and feeling they have to be on all different social media platforms, right? I have to be on Instagram. I have to be on TikTok. I have to be on Facebook, whatever. For me, honestly, I think Facebook is the winner for the communities because they have the Facebook groups. 

[00:15:36] No other platform quite has that, so there are channels and there are ways to talk to people and there are ways for them to see your content and all that stuff. But Facebook is the only place that there really is a system in the platform for you to have groups, right? And I always love to be able to, what I call fish from my own pond, right? 

[00:15:58] Again, it helps the [00:16:00] authenticity of the direct messages and the virtual events because when people are in the group, they’ve asked to be there. They’ve requested to get into the group. Now I know they want to be there. There’s an interest. There’s a reason. And so it’s a lot easier for you to communicate with these people, knowing that they’re already interested in what you’re trying to do and help them with. 

[00:16:25] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Good point. I know that we hear a lot about and you kind of talked about, email lists and this kind of thing, and Yeah. So just kind of, changing gears a little bit, the idea that we don’t really own anybody’s attention in Instagram or in Facebook feeds or any of that kind of thing. 

[00:16:48] And so. That’s why the email list is so important because, they’re your connections and you’re speaking to them directly. So if something changes in the algorithm, which does all the [00:17:00] time, they’re not going to miss your messaging. And so what are your thoughts on that? 

[00:17:05] Jodi Rumack: Yeah. I think email’s great, right? 

[00:17:07] Of course I use it. I’m running Facebook ads and doing all the things I think that when you get started. It’s important not to rely on it though. By all means, build your email list, create a lead magnet, go into groups, share it, get on podcasts, run ads. If you have the financial ability to do that. Cool. 

[00:17:30] Build your list. But the one to 3 percent conversion rate on an email list is based on people who have professional designers and copywriters to write their emails, to write their sales pages, and so of course those numbers can differ, like maybe have a lower ticket offer. It closes higher, like there’s stuff like that, but let’s just say that the one to 3 percent is, the typical. 

[00:17:57] It’s one to three percent when all of those things are in [00:18:00] place. So instead of spending our time trying to become a copywriter or become a designer or pay someone money that we don’t have yet from the business, right? Let’s spend that time connecting directly with people. Build the lead magnet or build the list in the background, but let’s spend that time in messages. 

[00:18:21] Let’s spend that time hosting events, getting to know people, and building those relationships instead. So yes, build your email list, of course, but don’t rely on it to get you your sales. 

[00:18:32] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, good stuff. Thank you for kind of going into detail. And you’re right. I think that the one to 3 percent is probably high if you are new and doing this for the first time, it’s probably not even going to be 1 percent because you don’t have the copywriter and the designer and all of that, set up. 

[00:18:52] So yeah, great points. So then let’s talk now a little bit about Something that you have shared and it’s the [00:19:00] five plus one elements of group coaching and I’m so curious what that means and so share that with us now. 

[00:19:07] Jodi Rumack: Okay, so there are two sort of sections here. So one is the five plus one elements and the other is the five characteristics. 

[00:19:16] Desiree Stanley: Okay. 

[00:19:16] Jodi Rumack: Let’s start actually with the characteristics. I think it’ll be easier. The characteristics are just how the program is delivered and formatted. So the first one is the length of the program. Most people think that when they create a group program, that it should be eight weeks or 12 weeks or maybe 16, but usually they think it’s short, right? 

[00:19:38] And usually they think they have to run in a cohort where it starts on this day and it ends on this day and all the people join at the same time. But the way that I do it is I do it with a longer program, four or six months usually. And I do it that way because most people need help to not only get to the goal, but to be able to [00:20:00] maintain it or even get to the next level. 

[00:20:02] When life gets in the way, okay? And this comes from my fitness days because we used to sell, like when I started in fitness in 2000, we used to sell, 10 sessions. And sure, somebody maybe got a few results, they lost a few pounds, they feel better, they know how to do the workout, but it wasn’t sustainable. 

[00:20:25] Once those 10 sessions were done, they didn’t come to the gym anymore, their eating fell off, like they didn’t have lasting habits. And so over time we started to sell longer term packages where we were actually selling people for a year at a time, six months at a time. And so this comes from that, where it’s let’s get people to their results, but let’s also make sure they can maintain them when life happens. 

[00:20:49] Okay, so that’s the first part. The second part is the way that they pay. So I do what I call pay for what you get revenue model, which means [00:21:00] that people pay every month. They’re committed for four or six months, but they’re paying on a monthly basis. And what that does is it creates reoccurring revenue for the coach so that now instead of having this five or eight or 10k month followed by a zero or a 2, 000 month, right? 

[00:21:23] We’re creating this consistency where I know how much money is coming in six months from now.. That’s the second part. And then rolling enrollment is the third piece of the characteristics where people can join the program at any time. So what happens with a cohort situation is people feel like I have to get 10 people in because if I don’t, I can’t let anyone else in for X amount of time. 

[00:21:48] And maybe they’re worried what it’s going to look like if they only have one or two people in what’s supposed to be a group, right? But if they use rolling enrollment where people can join at any time, they don’t have to worry about either of those things. [00:22:00] Now we can launch this group coaching program right away instead of waiting and putting it off because I don’t have enough people and I’m not sure and all of that. And then the fourth piece is course versus library. So again, most people think they have to create a step by step course. They do not. Instead, I have what I call resource library where the resources are there. But it’s a bit more flexible in terms of how your clients can use it, if that makes sense. 

[00:22:29] Okay. And then the last piece is personal invitation. Direct messages and virtual events. Let’s get to know your people and personally invite them in to join your program. Those are the characteristics of how it runs. And then the 5 plus 1 elements is what actually goes inside of the offer. So in every offer, I always have some kind of one-to-one element. 

[00:22:54] We can still make it personal even though it’s a group, some kind of group element, like the group [00:23:00] coaching call or some kind of a training or a networking event for your clients or something like that. A check-in piece. This is something where maybe you’re connecting with them on a Facebook message or in Voxer or something where you can connect with them in between your sessions. 

[00:23:16] The fourth one here is review or audit. This is something they actually hand into you that you can give them feedback. So the, again, it’s personal inside of a group. And then the last piece is the bonus. So those are the five plus the one is the bonuses, which typically you want them to overcome objections that people would have to joining the program. 

[00:23:40] That could be like time, money, am I gonna get enough support ,and putting in some of the elements that will help overcome those things? 

[00:23:50] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. No, I love that. Jodi. Thank you so much for sharing all of that detail with us in kind of how you structure and it really is very different [00:24:00] than what you would typically see and that rolling enrollment especially I think you’re right. 

[00:24:06] It’s mostly Launch and go and everybody’s doing everything at the same time. And I kind of wonder how does that affect the amount of time that you’re spending on, working with the groups because you’ve got people starting at different points in time. 

[00:24:23] Jodi Rumack: Great question. The resource library does have it still has a sequential kind of order. It’s just not as rigid. Okay, so it is in there where people could just go through the program, step by step. But also when people get started, because again, one of my things is I like people to think about their group coaching program as one to one coaching in a group format. 

[00:24:46] So the way that we do it is when I start with someone, I’ll start with a one to one call with them. That’s one of their one to one elements. And I would provide them, create for them a 90 day plan that has a step [00:25:00] by step of what they need to do. So for the first 90 days of the program, they know exactly what they’re supposed to do. 

[00:25:06] And the content inside the resource vault is going to give them all the tools they need to actually complete it. That way they can follow along for themselves. And it doesn’t matter if they just started or if I have someone who’s been with me for three months or three years or five years. Because when they get on the call, they are following their own 90 day plan and they can ask whatever questions they want. 

[00:25:30] And on the calls, I coach everybody one to one again in the group format. Everyone gets their own questions answered. And this is what I love about group coaching so much is that they learn from each other, whether they’re early or whether they’ve been with me for a long time. It doesn’t matter because. 

[00:25:49] The person who’s been with me for a long time is going to listen to the early one and say, Ooh, I haven’t thought about that in three months. I should probably do that thing, right? And the person who’s early is going to listen to people who’ve been with me for a [00:26:00] long time and go, Oh, I see what I can do now. 

[00:26:02] I see how this goes. I understand the language. Like I can kind of prepare myself for what’s to come, and then people can help each other. So this is why I love group coaching with people in different places. 

[00:26:15] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I can see that. That’s awesome. The idea of I know this because I’ve been doing it, I’m in this stage of the process versus somebody who’s brand new. So there’s something else that. You share about the group coaching and whether it’s somebody who’s a new coach, this idea of you have to do one on one versus, coaching in a group setting. And so you’ve got a different philosophy on that. And so why don’t you share that with us? 

[00:26:45] Jodi Rumack: Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of coaches talk about having to do one to one before they do the group. But for me, if your primary goal is to run a coaching business, and let’s say you’re in a full time [00:27:00] job, or let’s say you’re taking care of young kids, or you don’t have a lot of time, right? 

[00:27:05] So group coaching makes more sense for you. You feel comfortable in a group atmosphere for whatever reason that calls to you a little bit more. By all means, you can start with a group program, because again, The idea is that we’re coaching one to one in a group format. You still get to have that one to one connection. 

[00:27:24] You’re still going to do that initial call with them and get to know them, right? They’re not just being dropped into it from a parachute and here we go. We’re still getting this one to one connection with them. If you’re using a check in element like Facebook Messenger, there’s lots of questions going back and forth. You might have a Facebook group where that’s going back and forth. There’s lots of support. So there’s no reason why these people can’t start with group because they’re going to be coaching their people individually and bringing them together so everyone can learn from each other. 

[00:27:56] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So that’s if you want to launch. [00:28:00] With the group, scenario, what about scaling? So what if you’ve already been coaching for a while and now you’re like thinking, maybe I should look at group options. 

[00:28:12] Jodi Rumack: Yeah, a lot of people want to do this too, right there. This is what happened to me when I was doing my fitness business coaching. 

[00:28:18] I was coaching one to one. I was full. I was busy as heck. I wasn’t making as much money as I could have been, right? It was taking all the time. And so when you’re trying to scale, there are some ways that you can get your clients who are in one to one transitioned into group. And some people want to transition completely into group and some want to keep maybe two or three one to ones and then the rest in group, right? So it depends what you’re actually looking to do, but. I think it’s a nice rollout to say to your one to one clients. Hey, I’m opening up this group coaching program, especially if they’ve been with you for a long time. 

[00:28:58] It’s a really great option for [00:29:00] them to maybe pay a little bit less, because as a group coaching client, they’re not going to get quite the exact same one to one attention. So they can pay a little bit less, but now they can stay, right? A lot of the time it’s like, They could be going from one to one as the primary. 

[00:29:16] Maybe that’s what they want to do. And then when they’re done that initial four months or six months or however long it is, Their next step is to roll into the group so they can still stay with you, still get support, pay less, and still get to grow their business or what, or continue to work on whatever their goals are. 

[00:29:34] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love that. And what you shared about, we only have so many hours in the day and you can only help so many people in a one on one situation with the time that you have available, right? And so I could see how offering, group opens it up to you can help so many more people in that format and, not eat up all 24 hours of your day, trying to do that, but still [00:30:00] provide a lot of value to, the people who you’re helping. 

[00:30:03] I think that’s just fantastic. 

[00:30:05] Jodi Rumack: Thank you. 

[00:30:06] Desiree Stanley: Well, okay, let’s talk about maybe some challenges that you experienced and this process kind of helped you overcome and you shared with us the challenges you had, being forced to leave a corporate job and then, getting back into, a different routine. 

[00:30:23] So what are some other things maybe that you experienced that you grew through and kind of how did you do that? 

[00:30:30] Jodi Rumack: There are so many. Yeah, obviously being let go from a job that I loved was a really tough one. Even the decision to leave my business and take that job was really hard, right? 

[00:30:42] I was doing well, it was fine. The problem was that there wasn’t the consistency piece. And so it was hard to leave something that I knew was working, but I also knew I needed to make changes, but I didn’t have time at the time to make those changes. I needed to change it now. [00:31:00] And so that was a really tricky decision to make, right? 

[00:31:04] Am I going to walk away from this business I’ve been working on for five years, I’ve replaced my income from my corporate job. Everything is cool. But this consistency piece is missing, but I need it now. And when I transferred over, because I was moving into still a coaching role, I had to let all of my clients go because that made sense. 

[00:31:25] That was really hard. And it was really hard to have to say to my clients, I can’t coach you anymore. That was tough. And, I went into this business at the time it wasn’t ideal. I would have loved to keep doing my own, but it turned out to be a really great step for me. 

[00:31:41] And I learned a lot and I got to function in this million dollar business and learn a whole bunch of things behind the scenes and stuff like that. I think when you’re going through those Places it’s always, everything really does happen for a reason It’s the same thing with the corporate job. 

[00:31:55] Thank you for letting me go right? Thank you So [00:32:00] now I make way more money than I did Then and i’m working half the time everything really happens for a reason. I think those were probably the two biggest. And then again, we all have changes in our lives. And when I left the job to start out on my own again, that was more of a personal decision. 

[00:32:19] I had ended a relationship with my boyfriend at the time. And it was one of those moments in life where you go, okay, well it’s now or never, right? If I was going to get out of a job and go back out on my own, this was the time to do it. And so that’s what I did. And I just knew that when I did it the next time, I had to make different decisions, I had to run things a little bit differently. 

[00:32:44] I wanted my time, I wanted to make more money, I wanted to be able to help more people, which, group coaching, lower price point, it’s easier for them, it’s better for me, all the way around, right? So I think Those are, the standout moments. And then of course there are moments in an [00:33:00] entrepreneur day, life, month, year, whatever, where even when things are good, there’s always stuff that comes up, right? 

[00:33:09] And anyone who launches. knows that some launches can be amazing and some launches are not even when you’re repeating, like just sometimes that’s what happens. And, hopefully there isn’t too much discrepancy. And obviously if there is, we want to look at that and make changes, small changes to make it work. 

[00:33:31] But I’ve had those days, right? You come off of an amazing launch and you think the next one’s going to be exactly the same. And it isn’t. And you’re looking at yourself going, what just happened? I did the same thing two months ago and everything was great and I did it now and it didn’t work. What did I do or not do? 

[00:33:49] Those things are hard. And it’s not always easy to see where the gap was or find out what happened. And sometimes the reason isn’t that big of a deal, right? [00:34:00] It’s something little that changed. I think we have to really be resilient and be able to Sometimes just take it for what it is and take a deep breath and go, okay, I’m not going to go and change every single thing about the way I’m launching because this one launch didn’t work. 

[00:34:21] Because that happens a lot. I think there are the big milestone pieces but then there are also just the things that happen in the day to day of your entrepreneurial life, and we have to be able to roll with it and sometimes be able to step away and. Maybe you need to take a break or maybe you need to take a few days off to just decompress and think about it and come back fresh, so I don’t know, maybe I’ll just throw this one other thing in here because I know that it really helped me is that over the last three years, since I’ve been running this business, I decided that over Christmas time, I was going to take off two weeks and I wasn’t going to [00:35:00] work and honestly, that downtime has given me so much to just be able to take all these day to day ups and downs that we’re exhausted from and really have some time to absorb and assess and think and Decide how I want to show up for the new year who i’m gonna be and what I need to do now to be that person, right? so I think we have to You know go through the hard stuff, but also have some Sort of parameters in there for ourselves to be able to come back from it and to be able to Keep going and do the next thing. 

[00:35:45] Desiree Stanley: Jodi. Thank you so much for that. That was awesome I just have to say there was some things that just came to mind when you were talking about, you said, okay. I know this is the time I’ve got to just do All of this, I’ve got [00:36:00] to get out of here. I’ve got to start my own thing again. 

[00:36:02] And what came to mind was we sometimes think we’re starting over or starting from scratch, but I love the idea that we’re not starting from scratch, we’re starting from experience and all of the things that we’ve been through and learned along the way we’ve got as tools now. And we can carry forward. 

[00:36:23] So I love that. Remembering that is awesome. And then you’re absolutely right. Like the day to day we are bombarded with so much and we rarely give ourselves time to reflect. And it’s so important if we don’t take those minutes, hours, days, weeks, if we can to really look back on what has transpired and how do we want to move forward. It’s just like spinning wheels. So I love that, reminder that we’ve got to take those times for ourselves to reflect. 

[00:36:59] Jodi Rumack: For sure. [00:37:00] 

[00:37:00] Desiree Stanley: I have to tell you, Jodi, I would love to keep talking and hear more of what you have to share because it’s. Amazing. And I think that really these principles apply in so many areas, not just, necessarily coaching or group coaching or for coaches. 

[00:37:17] Even if you’re talking about product launches, if you sell a product, you think I’m going to follow this plan with this product and it’s going to work, but that’s not the case every time. And you can’t throw out the whole structure just because this particular time it just maybe didn’t work as well. 

[00:37:36] Look at other things. And so I think that these ideas cross over many fields. And so thank you so much for sharing this with us. Before we close out, I always love to ask my guests, what is it that they’ve read or are reading now that have been influential or beneficial that they want to share with the listeners? 

[00:37:57] So if you’d like to do that, I would love it. 

[00:37:59] Jodi Rumack: [00:38:00] Yeah, for sure. I’ll share two books. One, which you won’t be surprised I’m going to say is called The One Thing. The One Thing is a book about focusing on the main thing that’s going to get you the most results, be focused. All that stuff. 

[00:38:12] That is a huge one. And the second one is a book called Crucial Conversations And there’s a second one called Crucial Accountability and these two books I actually got certified in how to have these conversations back in my corporate life. And we use them with our teams and our staff and all that stuff. 

[00:38:35] And they can also really apply in your personal life. And so these two books are really about how to go into tough conversations or what you think might be a tough conversation. A lot of people struggle with what they think is going to be, hard and they don’t want to upset anybody and they don’t want to, have any confrontation and stuff like that. 

[00:38:57] But these two books were game changers. [00:39:00] In the ability to have those conversations and go in with the right mindset and be able to come out with solutions. So whether it’s for business or for personal, it honestly doesn’t matter. Those two books are number one. 

[00:39:15] Desiree Stanley: Oh, awesome. Love it. Thank you so much for sharing those great recommendations. 

[00:39:20] And you’re so right. I know even for myself, I don’t like confrontation. I don’t want to have some of these conversations because you’re, you think to yourself, well, how are they going to react and what’s going to happen? And then it’s this snowball of things and what ifs and which are probably wrong. 

[00:39:36] And so I love the suggestion of these books because, really communication is. It is everything. And when you can communicate and have these conversations without all of that, thoughts racing around your head, wow, love it. So thank you for sharing those. I will of course include that information in the show notes. 

[00:39:58] And so also, are there any [00:40:00] podcasts that you enjoy listening to that you’d like to share with the listeners? 

[00:40:04] Jodi Rumack: Okay. So my, one of my favorite people to listen to right now is actually Lewis Howes. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of him. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So he, I’ve actually liked him for a long time. He’s been on my radar since the beginning. 

[00:40:17] I’ve listened to him probably the last eight or 10 years, whatever it’s been. And I just have loved watching him evolve as an entrepreneur and in his business and what he’s doing and always loved him and I just love him more and more every time I listened to him and he’s just a great perspective. 

[00:40:36] He has this, broader content now, which is really great to see. He’s talking about business, talking about relationship, talking about life, talking about. All the things. So he’s a really great one to get a little bit of everything. 

[00:40:49] Desiree Stanley: Nice. Yeah, for sure. I follow him as well and I have for probably the last, oh gosh, four years, I would say. 

[00:40:57] And yeah, I absolutely agree. He’s [00:41:00] written some great books and his podcast is phenomenal. His guests that he features as well, share amazing information. So absolutely. I agree. A great recommendation. So thank you for that. Well, lastly, Jodi, before we finish the episode today, I would love for you to share your information with the listeners. 

[00:41:19] How can they find you and follow along your journey and what you’re teaching and sharing? And if they have questions, how could they reach out to you? 

[00:41:28] Jodi Rumack: Yeah, for sure. Okay. So probably the best place to find me is actually on Facebook. So just my name, Jodi Rumack. You can find me there. I do have a free Facebook group called The Leadership Loft for High Achieving Coaches. 

[00:41:40] So you can if you go to my personal profile, there will be a link to the group there. That’s probably the best way I’m also hosting a workshop about designing the perfect group coaching offer, which I think you’ll be sharing the link for that So those are probably the best two ways on Facebook and coming to the [00:42:00] workshop 

[00:42:00] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. 

[00:42:01] And I will for sure include that information in the show notes so the listeners can easily find it. Jodi, thank you again so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate your fresh take on, coaching and group coaching. And again, this crosses over, I think in so many different areas. 

[00:42:20] So I really appreciate your time and your knowledge and sharing that with us. So thank you. 

[00:42:25] Jodi Rumack: My pleasure. Thank you so much. 

[00:42:28] Desiree Stanley: All right. Well, we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:42:29] Jodi Rumack: Sounds good. 

[00:42:31] Desiree Stanley: Thank you, dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it. 

[00:42:51] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Alina Vlaic Podcast_03_06_2024 

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:22] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my dear friend Alina Vlaic. How are you today, Alina? 

[00:00:34] Alina Vlaic: Hi, I’m very good. Thank you. And I’m so honored and happy to be here and to see you again. 

[00:00:40] Desiree Stanley: Thank you. And the same is true for me as well. Alina and I know each other through kind of the Amazon world. 

[00:00:48] And she’s coming on the show today to talk about her company. She’s a founder and CEO of AZ Rank. And this is really an Amazon centered business that helps Amazon [00:01:00] sellers. But besides that, Alina is a wife, a mother. She has launched several businesses, running businesses concurrently, and doing that alongside her husband. 

[00:01:13] I wanted Alina to come on the show and share how she has managed to do all of this and juggle all of this and do it so well. So again, thank you, Alina. I’m so looking forward to our conversation. 

[00:01:27] Alina Vlaic: Thank you too. Yes. Me too. 

[00:01:29] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. So I told everybody what it is that you do. 

[00:01:33] But I want you to share your story with us because it is a phenomenal story. And so please tell us how initially you launched AZRank, but what led up to that and your entrepreneurial experience that you’ve had in your life. 

[00:01:49] Alina Vlaic: Oh, now you really put some pressure on me, but I don’t usually think my journey is so extraordinary because you know, when you listen to [00:02:00] podcasts and see all that all the, all these famous people on, you know, all over social media and stuff, you, I always feel like. 

[00:02:07] Damn, I’m like a tiny little piece of the universe compared to all of them. But actually, if you come to think of it I oftentimes more recently Try to educate myself into thinking, no, you’re not that little you’re important , all of us are you know, especially in our lives and in our families. 

[00:02:27] I could say about myself that I’m an entrepreneur. I think I’ve been one. I’ve been working my whole life. I told you a little bit about this. My working life, let’s say started when I was a kid and I loved to help my parents. I come from, I am currently living in Romania and I was born here. 

[00:02:47] Romania is an ex communist country. We got out of communism in 1989 and things were completely different until then. I’m not going to go too much into that, but people can [00:03:00] find this information about how communists , it was in the Eastern European countries. It was not fun. 

[00:03:07] Let’s say freedom was not a thing. We couldn’t travel. And the thing that mostly marked my childhood, because I’m born in 1982, so I was seven years old. just started school when this happened, I don’t remember too much, but what I do remember is that we had money, but we didn’t have anything to buy. 

[00:03:29] If you compare that to what happens nowadays, it’s completely different story. Long story short, my mom and dad were both engineers, both working in factories at that time, but my father has always wanted to have his own business and to work for himself. 

[00:03:43] That was his life dream. And he managed to do it with several businesses of his own during his adulthood. But back then in 1991, he opened the first business we ever had. It was a grocery store, was a grocery store [00:04:00] who sold three products and it wasn’t small. It was like 100 square meters. I don’t know that in feet, but it’s big. 

[00:04:08] But since there were no products available, not even suppliers to get from he could get orange soda, mineral water, and coffee. And for me, it was incredible. You know, will people come and buy these things? And yes, they did. The line was across the block those were my first days of working into a business, let’s say, because I was there helping them. 

[00:04:33] How however I could. And then just, you know, starting helping them with some basic, you know, accounting, like putting data into the computer and stuff like that. What I could do at those. Ages, but I worked there all my vacations and all my weekends as long as I could in high school they started a printing house and I could do more stuff, but not necessarily in the office or, I don’t know, in the management position or how could you say? 

[00:04:59] I [00:05:00] liked to also go. Work with the workers in the printing house. You know, everything was done manual. We didn’t have automated machines to do books and papers. So everything was done by hand. And I used to wake up at five in the morning and go to work like a regular person and just do the same work with the people working there. 

[00:05:20] For me, it was an extraordinary. life experience because I can now look at my kids and talk to my kids and they are seven and 12, by the way. They are born and they’re living in a completely different era, different years and everything is different, but telling them those stories. 

[00:05:40] I have a feeling that I’m getting to them because it’s different than everything they know, it’s like a story, but I’m hoping that when they grow up, they remember that, you know, you can Basically what I’m trying to teach them is that you don’t have to be ashamed to work, and afraid [00:06:00] at the same time. 

[00:06:01] It doesn’t matter what job you have, you can be a janitor, you can be a CEO, as long as you do your work with everything that, the way you should do it with respect and everything, honesty, that’s the way you should do it. Skipping forward after college I got a job because I didn’t want to actually go back to my parents. 

[00:06:24] I wanted to, you know, do it on my own and I got a job and that’s how I met my husband. But we were in very far away, 500 kilometers away. I was the buyer, he was the seller. He was trying to sell me stuff. The company is not personally, but that’s how we met. And then a few years after through an opportunity that came here in in the city we currently live, I moved here and then we continued our relationship and eventually got married. 

[00:06:52] But when I moved here he’s also an entrepreneur. So he started his first business while he was still in college. [00:07:00] And we still have it right now. It’s a distribution company that we basically sell toys. We import several brand of toys and children items and then give them forward to retailers or online websites, or we sell them online on our own. 

[00:07:17] That’s one business that we currently have. And in the meantime, after we moved here I, as I told you, there was an opportunity, but that opportunity was a job. So I worked. At the same time with helping him with the, our business I actually had a job for 10 and a half years here in our town. 

[00:07:37] I was sales manager for a stationery company and toys. So they were related, but that’s the point when we first met this phenomenon called Amazon. When Amazon entered our lives and we started selling that was 2017. And that happened actually when I [00:08:00] was pregnant with my second child, my daughter. 

[00:08:04] Not pregnant because I worked until my last day, but after after I was home with her I decided not to go back to my job and quit. And then I said, okay, give me something to do. Let’s do something on top of our company, because that’s what we had right then. 

[00:08:21] And then we started learning Amazon, selling on Amazon, doing our own private label brand on Amazon, which is. For people who aren’t familiar with that, it’s just launching your brand, building it from scratch and then selling it on Amazon and other channels too, but mostly Amazon. 

[00:08:39] And only then late 2018, I started AZRank as an agency because I confronted myself from the other side of the business as a client for other agencies, I confronted myself with some issues that not necessarily I didn’t like, but [00:09:00] I thought I could do better. And I thought I could help sellers more, sellers like me, because our first, this is important to mention, our first private label brand, which was a baby brand, because you know, new mother, new baby. 

[00:09:14] I know everything about babies. Let’s launch a baby brand. But it was a failure. Big time, but if it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t be here right now. And I’m going to say that loud and clear. All my life, because it was my biggest lesson and my biggest opportunity, our both of us, my husband and I, because that’s how we started the agency and that’s how we learned. 

[00:09:39] That’s how we basically learned Amazon. And this is something that I would like to share as an advice, as a something that worked for me. A lot of people just stumble when they have issues and problems and you know, failures and say, Oh my God, life sucks. It’s not good. 

[00:09:57] What am I going to do? I did that. I did [00:10:00] it too in the beginning, but then being forced to continue because we have put a lot of money or savings into that brand, so we needed to continue and to figure something out. I discovered that the best way of learning about everything is through a failure. 

[00:10:19] That’s when you’re most focused. That’s when you’re most, you’re paying most attention to everybody and to everything that’s happening around you. Because when you’re on high horses, you’re not paying attention to all the details and things might just fly around you. Without taking too much advantage of important things. 

[00:10:42] Yeah, we failed that one build the agency, which is still here. We’re doing well. And we launched a couple of more services that go hand in hand with what we do. So we’re trying to grow that one. And we’re also currently selling not the [00:11:00] baby brand other two brands right now on Amazon, on Walmart. 

[00:11:04] So each of these marketplaces, as I’m sure you’re in the business too. You know, a little bit about what e commerce is. Each marketplace, it’s like its own business because it’s new platform, new rules, new everything. It’s a constant juggle between them. So yeah, I think that brings up us up to 2024. 

[00:11:28] Desiree Stanley: Alina, thank you so much for sharing that journey with us. And I think for so many of us. Myself included. And I’m sure many of the listeners, really not having any idea of what it was like because most of my listeners are in North America. And you know, we have had an entirely different experience here. 

[00:11:49] And so thank you for sharing that with us and what just a tiny piece of what it was like for you in Romania. prior to, you know, coming out of [00:12:00] communism. And I love that you shared your parents story as well, and how it was your father’s lifelong dream to, you know, launch his own company. 

[00:12:11] And he was able to do that. And I love. stories like that and how you worked with them and even whatever capacity you could do. And so I think that’s very true of anyone who has run their own business or been involved in a family business where you just bring everyone along and everyone pitches in whatever way. 

[00:12:29] I know for, you know, Rob and I, when we started our business, And our children were young. It’s like they could empty trash cans or sweep floors or, whatever. And that’s what they did. And it does teach them valuable life skills and lessons. And, it’s such a great experience. And, you know, if you ask them, they probably would say, I don’t know about how much I like sweeping floors, but yeah, it did teach me some stuff. So thank you for sharing that. And I love what you said about failure and how it’s such [00:13:00] a teacher for us. If we choose to look at it that way instead of I failed, it’s terrible, I’m never doing that again. And just giving up, using it as an opportunity to see like, where could I do something different? 

[00:13:14] What can I do now? And, you know, Kind of digging it back up and running with it. And so thank you for sharing that because I think it’s so true. 

[00:13:24] Alina Vlaic: Yes. It’s not easy when you’re in those moments. You don’t necessarily think about figuring it out, but you mostly think about how to get rid of it and, you know, get to a better place, but eventually life happens. 

[00:13:41] And sometimes you find yourself stuck. And you have to figure it out and I don’t wish this to anybody, happens, it happens if anyone of your listeners finds themselves in a place like that, just try to remember that you can [00:14:00] figure it out, start learning your, your mind will go off. 

[00:14:05] Thinking only about that because that’s what you’re thinking, right? I failed this, I lost a lot of money, blah, blah, blah. And you’re going to start learning again and thinking and your mind will start, you know, , the wheels will start spinning again and ideas will come and things will happen. As long as you don’t like Oh, yeah. 

[00:14:22] What am I? You know, I wake up in the morning and I, Oh my God, another day. Yeah. it’s not easy. I know it’s not easy. some people will say, Oh, look at her now she made it. And she gives us advice. I am very much aware. It’s not easy, but it’s doable. I’m the living proof. 

[00:14:40] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And like you said, if it wasn’t for going through that, you wouldn’t be where you are today. 

[00:14:46] Great point there is that those experiences and the things that you learn and develop because of it, it has launched you into this whole other realm of, success. And if you’re willing to put the [00:15:00] work in to figure those things out, it can launch you into a whole nother area. 

[00:15:04] So you shared with us about, how AZ rank came to be and that’s. You know, seeing these experiences that you were having and going I know I can do this better. I’m sure I can figure out a better way to do this. And then helping other people with that experience that you learned. And I love that. 

[00:15:22] And then the tools that you have incorporated to, again, continue to help your business grow, but sharing those with others to help them you know, continue to succeed. It’s awesome. 

[00:15:34] Alina Vlaic: Yeah. It actually is. I’m really proud of it. 

[00:15:37] Desiree Stanley: You should be. 

[00:15:38] Alina Vlaic: And how the way how it evolved and how I started it basically from scratch, absolutely nothing. 

[00:15:44] I remember my daughter was like a few months old and she used to, she loves her sleep. She still does, but she used to love her sleep as a baby, as long as somebody was moving the stroller. And since I had to be in front of the computer to learn, [00:16:00] to watch courses on or take notes or stuff, because at that point we were in the learning process for Amazon, I used to bring the stroller into the house and just move it around. And on, I had my phone in the other hand and. You know, keep doing stuff where I was in front of the laptop watching and stuff while putting her to sleep. I always like to multitask even now I feel like I know some people say it’s not like very productive, but if I don’t multitask. 

[00:16:31] Not me. I always I’m looking at the laptop. I’m preparing some food at the same time, thinking of something. It’s just how I function best, I think. 

[00:16:42] Desiree Stanley: You know, that brings up a question for me and that’s How you do it all, because honestly, I don’t even know how you do it all. 

[00:16:51] You do have two children, you are running multiple businesses. You have your husband, a house, you know, a [00:17:00] periodic pet. You share this cat, that’s lives with you some of the time and yeah, wanders off to it’s owner. But what I’m getting at is that you are doing so many things and if you want to share with us how you manage to incorporate all of those things and juggle all of those things. 

[00:17:19] I would love to hear, and I’m sure the listeners would as well. Some tips that you have. 

[00:17:25] Alina Vlaic: So first of all my biggest challenge with the agency when I started it was the time difference we have seven hours to New York and 10 hours to California. And most of our clients, and people working for us, most of them are in the U S. So I had to work on USA time zones at the same time . I have to work and had to in Romania time for kids and everything that happens here, and at the same time, I have to work with Asia for my brands, suppliers, China, shipments, blah, blah, blah, [00:18:00] all that. 

[00:18:00] So at the beginning it was two and a half years, maybe three of 16 to 18 hours days. And at one point I said, I’m going to crack if I don’t stop. So I waking up in the morning, preparing the kids, depending, kindergarten, whatever, or just, you know, just starting the day, if she was, when she was a baby, and then trying to do my schedule for the day, but it didn’t necessarily work out because I didn’t planned it too well at that. 

[00:18:36] Now I know then at that point I thought, okay, I’m going to do this and that and this and that, but, skipping a few years after that period of time, which I think even if I would have organized myself a little bit better, and I’m going to share with you how I do it now. Even so I would still have very long [00:19:00] days because everything was in the process of growing, building everything up. 

[00:19:05] So that cannot be done in eight hours. I don’t still, even now, I don’t work eight hours. I don’t know, maybe combined or as an average. Probably my workday is like 12 hours a day, but sometimes I work during the weekends, depending on my schedule, how I organized myself. 

[00:19:24] And I said, okay, I need sleep. First of all, I was so sleep deprived after my daughter was just like growing up and started to sleep a whole night. And then instead of enjoying that, I was staying up working. Oh my god. Are you stupid? But that’s the way it was right? So now what do I do? I just organize my day For me, it’s time zones. 

[00:19:48] So in the morning, I’m with Asia in the middle of the day. I’m with kids because they come home during lunch and you know, maybe some activities that we have that they do. And then [00:20:00] around the afternoon. It’s morning in the U. S. So U. S. starts and that’s the trickier part of the day because, it’s afternoon they need some time. We need to spend some time with them. They need us. And there’s dinner and we always have, I like to cook dinner with them. My son loves to cook and we do this together, you know, and talk. I needed that back into my life. that period of day was like recharging for me. 

[00:20:30] So what do I do now? I just try to put everything down. What do I have to do for this week? Like doctor’s appointments and things that cannot be missed. And then I say, I need to go to bed at midnight. I try not to pass midnight, even if I stay up a little bit. a little bit later, but I will do that only for reading or listening to podcasts or something.[00:21:00] 

[00:21:00] That’s just my me time. And at the same time, I said, I need some me time during the day. I need to breathe. I need to go shopping. I need to do whatever, just. Find a way to put that in otherwise, you know, we’re women and we’re human beings. We need things that relax us I mean, I’m not going to the spa in the middle of the day on Wednesday But I might get my hair done or my nails done if I feel like it, right? 

[00:21:30] And that brings me to a much better state than if I would spend that time working. So basically, long story short, is communicate with everyone around you. That’s what helped us a lot. Set up my limits and negotiate them. I negotiated them with myself. I was my biggest enemy and I said, it’s going to be first it was one o’clock. 

[00:21:57] Now it’s midnight. I’m planning to [00:22:00] go to 11 by the end of the year. That’s the plan. Long term, I’m not going to be able to do that in a month. And those limits helped me organize myself better during the day. And at the same time, the hardest thing of all this is to learn to say no, I cannot do that today. 

[00:22:18] I’m sorry. I want to, but I cannot even with you remember our first invite it would have been Friday evening. We usually do something with the kids or with the friends. And this is the first time I’m telling you. So you’re hearing me live now, but that’s the reason I asked you if you could possibly do a different day, because from 5 PM on Friday, it’s off for family. 

[00:22:44] So this kind of things help. And what helped me most was. Finding out that it’s actually possible because I was, I’m never going to be able to do that. Oh my God. What happens if I don’t answer this 25 to 37 emails today? [00:23:00] Things like that. Guess what? They’re not going to die and their Amazon business is not going to crash by morning. 

[00:23:07] That’s pretty much it. And multitasking, maybe not everybody does that. But for me, it’s fun. I love it. 

[00:23:15] Desiree Stanley: Alina, those are great tips. The idea of setting boundaries. We hear so much about how important this is in all areas of our lives, really. And the point that you just made about the emails and it’s really, these are not life or death. 

[00:23:33] And as much as we want to, you know, be really helpful and efficient and get them answered right away. So they’re out of our inbox. We just can’t, we’ve got to say, you know what this can wait. These other things are more important. I need to handle this. And so I think that’s a great tip for anyone. 

[00:23:52] And then again, your point about. Setting your hard stop for [00:24:00] bedtime, right? You’ve got to get enough sleep. Yeah. Otherwise you just can’t function and you’re not going to be helpful to anybody. So I think that’s another great one is saying, this is it for me. I’m done at this point. And then I can have some me time and whatever that may be. 

[00:24:14] And I’ve had a guest on. She shares about how it becomes a time that she does, artistic things. Because she’s a singer. And she does maybe song lyrics that she’s writing or she’s practicing a little bit of time before bed and you know, whatever it is, if it’s journaling for you or if it’s reading or listening to a podcast, you’ve got to have that time for you. 

[00:24:36] And so another great tip, setting, setting those boundaries. I love it. And so I want to have you talk a little bit about because you did share like Friday night as family and friends. So let’s talk about how you’re, you know, incorporating your relationship with your husband and you work together, which is, can be challenging, [00:25:00] especially if you’re both very a types hardheaded, maybe stubborn, you know, the right way or whatever the case may be. 

[00:25:08] How do you take that side of it and then still have a relationship that’s intimate and fun and, you know, your friends? 

[00:25:18] Alina Vlaic: I think we are lucky, because we’re not both hard headed. I’m probably a little bit more than him. He’s like very calm. 

[00:25:28] You know him. He’s always calm, except when the waiter doesn’t give him a drink or something. Kidding. We’ve been friends. So our relationship started as becoming best friends and even now we’re been together, we’re almost at 20 years mark in a year and a half, almost two. 

[00:25:49] So we have some history and back then, and even now he’s telling me something that I am thinking about telling him right now. [00:26:00] So we I don’t know, there’s something, a telepathic communication. He’s texting me. Things that I am texting him at the same time. Literally. I’m not kidding. It’s not like always like that, but there are situations where it’s like that. 

[00:26:16] We think alike and I very honestly say that I Wouldn’t imagine doing this alone. I mean in the beginning. I was a little bit more alone. He was there the whole time, but I just did more things on my own in the beginning, but I always He knew he was there in the back and we still would talk to each other and discuss things, whatever good or bad. 

[00:26:45] So I’m not saying it’s not challenging at some point, you know, people in all relationships, doesn’t matter how happy you need some break, you know, you cannot let just. Live, work, sleep have fun with your friends, [00:27:00] everything together. 

[00:27:01] And sometimes you need breaks and that’s happening with us. And this is something that I strongly advise everyone to do. He goes out with his friends, I go out with my friends. Or sometimes we’re even in the same house. He talks with the boys, I talk with the girls. We’re in the same reunion, right? Just as simple as that. 

[00:27:22] Because sometimes all our friends are like We’re all together. It doesn’t really matter. I don’t have to go out with different people. It’s the same people. It’s just like different circumstances. Communication. We talk about everything. Literally everything. The stupidest things things ever. Sometimes we just on Friday nights, if we’re not seeing people we just grab a bottle of wine and he plays music. He used to be a DJ prior to his business, he used to DJ the radio. He loves music and he just, play some music on a TV and we just drink wine and [00:28:00] talk. 

[00:28:00] About life, business, this or that, or kids, or whatever, just, you know, and this sometimes ends up at four in the morning, and just, the second day I was like, shit, why didn’t we go to bed earlier? It’s just because we love doing that. Even if we’re like together all day, I work from home, he goes to the office at the company. 

[00:28:26] Most of the times, most of the days, but still, we’re pretty much together the whole day. Even if we went in our worst moments, like if we had like disagreements or something like that, it’s just, talk it through somehow. 

[00:28:40] I don’t know, fight, yell, whatever, get it out of your system and move over. And I know it sometimes can be hard because some people are very, like you said, like hardheaded, but I’m sure there are more appropriate words for this when they. Cannot admit for example, sometimes you just have to say it’s have to say it’s [00:29:00] my fault. 

[00:29:00] Just forget it. Okay. I’m sorry Let’s move over. Let’s figure it out. And then doesn’t matter. I don’t hold grudges about who Did what and what happened as long as it’s solved? I think that’s something very important as well. And I don’t know., I always see the good things in people, the good side of people. 

[00:29:21] And I’m always optimistic, too optimistic. I think I like to listen to Tony Robbins and he says, I listened to an event he had recently, only day one, I have two more days, but he was saying something that he doesn’t believe in the thing called positive thinking. He said that doesn’t exist. 

[00:29:43] you cannot positive think about something that you don’t know what’s going to happen. It’s not the reality. You have to make it positive, you know, his theories and how he tries to you know, empower people and stuff like that. With that, I disagree. I’m sorry. But in that [00:30:00] point I completely, that’s why I have it here in my mind. 

[00:30:03] It stayed there when I listened to him, because I do like to positive thing. And for me, it’s helpful. For example, if I don’t know, I’m waiting for a decision or I don’t know, I’m waiting for a client to confirm or for Amazon to approve something, one of my products or whatever. I just like to think, that it’s going to happen, rather than think it’s not going to happen because For me, it’s something that is you know, the vibe, the energy. 

[00:30:36] Sometimes it goes completely the opposite way around, so it’s not going to happen. But at least I didn’t stress myself in the meantime thinking about how bad it’s going to be. I thought how good it’s going to be, and yes, if it’s not going to happen, it’s not going to happen. This is it. Some people say, you’re falling from a taller horse when you’re thinking positive and maybe you’re a bit disappointed, but I don’t know.[00:31:00] 

[00:31:00] It’s just, this is me. And this is what happens a lot in our relationship because he’s a little bit the other way around. He, not necessarily pessimistic, but probably more realistic most of the times. And I’m always correcting him and saying let’s be positive. Let’s see what, no, it’s not going to happen. 

[00:31:16] I know, but let’s think it’s going to happen, you know, stuff like that. 

[00:31:21] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. I love that. 

[00:31:23] Alina Vlaic: We never had it’s been 20 years and I don’t think we’ve ever had like huge fights. I know I’m, I told you we were lucky and we are lucky and we’re, we’re really good together. I think that helps too, but yeah that’s it. 

[00:31:40] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. What you said about communication, we all know how important that is to be able to talk with our partner, instead of holding grudges or instead of, just running through your mind, these things about what they didn’t do or what they said that hurt you or upset you or whatever. 

[00:31:56] And it’s like getting those things out, discussing those [00:32:00] things makes a world of difference and, you know, it can be difficult. There’s no question. It can be difficult having honest conversations where you think like maybe they’re going to react in such a way or it’s going to hurt their feelings or whatever, but it’s better to get those things out and aired and you can work through them and then move forward. 

[00:32:19] And I think that’s such a huge point and a suggestion that I think we all can agree is totally important. And what you said about the positive thinking and, okay you know, I’m going to just go out and talk about this idea of projecting those positive thoughts and there’s a whole school on what your mind thinks about it brings about. 

[00:32:45] And so when you’re thinking positively about an outcome, it’s going to happen. And, of course, there’s some people will say I don’t believe that, that’s not true. But I think it’s true. Anyway. It sounds like you do too. Do your own [00:33:00] research, for the listeners, look into, the whole school of kind of quantum mechanics and in a quantum theory and all of this, because that’s fascinating and I highly recommend, but not to get too far off topic let’s talk now about during this journey, entrepreneurial journey that you’ve been on how you’ve had highs, you’ve had lows. What do you think, has really been what’s carried you through those times. 

[00:33:31] Is it just something innate in who you are and your beliefs? Or do you feel like there’s been something else that has helped you through that those different times? 

[00:33:42] Alina Vlaic: In the bad times, I think my positive thinking helped a lot. Actually, to be very honest I’m a person that, doesn’t make a tragedy. 

[00:33:51] You I mean, even if I get really mad or angry of a situation or I don’t know, something’s wrong and I need [00:34:00] to fix it and I don’t know, I’m pissed off three days or so. But I’m not making like a life or death issue, or my whole world is going to crash and I’m going to be dead by the end of the week and things like that. 

[00:34:13] I never go that deep when it’s low. But I try to, you know, think of, again, how lucky I am to be here. I have a wonderful family, I have two amazing kids, I have a Business, which I don’t know, maybe one day I won’t have it right. Things can happen anytime to any one of us. We are in Romania here. 

[00:34:36] We have borders to Ukraine. It’s been a war there for two years. Israel is cross the sea. We’re in a very conflictual zone right now. And we actually had a few conversations. My husband and I saying, what are we going to do? It’s real. It’s not movies. It’s real life. We might be able to, I don’t know, leave everything here and go away. 

[00:34:59] [00:35:00] Life can change in so many different ways. We don’t We’re not able to predict, but even that I just, I dunno, I just think about everything that I have about how lucky I am, that I am able to do that, to move. I have enough money to be able to travel and take my kids to a safe place and family. 

[00:35:21] And that’s pretty much it. That’s all I think about. I trust myself that I’m able to start from scratch. I’m not ashamed of work. I could do any type of work any day. If this. Tomorrow I’m going to get a job at a grocery store selling mineral water and coffee. I’m totally fine with that. 

[00:35:42] I think that’s there’s nothing really more than that into how I am. I’m a strong believer everything is here. Our real problems, our imaginary problems, our imaginary health issues. Sometimes it’s, everything is here. [00:36:00] If you’re Controlling like 10 percent of what’s in here. We’re good. 

[00:36:05] Desiree Stanley: That’s an excellent point. 

[00:36:07] For those who are listening and not watching on YouTube, you’re pointing to your head, saying everything is in your head. And that is 100%. You know, I agree with that. The what you’re thinking, what you’re believing it’s Impacting your health, your life, everything that you’re seeing in your life. 

[00:36:27] And, you know, thank you also for pointing out the situation that you’re in, where you’re located and the real danger that’s can happen at really any moment. And hopefully not I, pray daily for that. But you know, we’re very far removed from it here in the States. 

[00:36:47] And, we’re aware of it and we know that it’s happening and we see it in the news, but it’s not our daily reality, you know, those concerns. And so thank you for pointing that out again and bringing [00:37:00] that awareness to us. But you’re right. It’s really what you think about again makes all the difference in what is happening in your life. 

[00:37:10] So thank you for sharing that. It’s so very true. Alina, you know, I would talk to you for hours and I would do that again right now if we had that much time, but you are incredibly busy and we just barely scratched the surface of the things that we could talk about because your experience as a female cEO, founder of multiple companies, a mom raising two amazing children. And you talked about your son briefly about how he loves to cook. And you’ve shared about the incredible things that he is cooking at such a young age, and that’s just so fun. But again, you’re busy. 

[00:37:48] So I want to have you share with us now, as I always love to ask my guests, what books you’re reading or have read that you have found to be [00:38:00] influential for you or beneficial for you that you would like to share with the listeners. 

[00:38:04] Alina Vlaic: Okay, so I have three. It was hard to make a selection, but I did it. 

[00:38:09] Yes. So first one, it’s called the Buddha and the Badass by Vishen Lakhyani. He’s a founder of a very interesting community. It’s all about mindset and how to change your life, but it doesn’t have to do with that. It’s just a book that he wrote. I strongly recommend it. Just even if you’re not necessarily in a business, 

[00:38:32] okay, and then since we’ve spoken about kids it’s a book that I’m currently going through I have it on audio, but you can find it also on Kindle and paperback. It’s called Hold On To Your Kids Gabor Mate. And somebody else. Hold on to your kids. 

[00:38:49] Absolutely fantastic. Every parent of a child of every age should read that. It’s fantastic. I won’t say more. And last but not least, [00:39:00] something for the soul, I have read this last weekend. I couldn’t go to sleep until I finish it. That’s how much I loved it. It’s called Three Apples Falling from the Sky. It’s Narine Abgaryan, it’s a, it’s just a book for your soul. It’s such a beautiful story and I loved it so much that. Next day I went online and tried to find what else has she written and now I’m reading her second book which was award winning it’s called Simon, just plain like that, Simon. 

[00:39:33] I’m going through as I’m reading it right now. It’s an Armenian female author. Amazing. You should definitely try it. 

[00:39:42] Desiree Stanley: I will include all of the information that you just shared in the show notes, because those are some excellent recommendations for sure. And is there a podcast you mentioned that you enjoy listening to? Would you like to share those with us now? 

[00:39:58] Alina Vlaic: As I said, Tony Robbins, [00:40:00] whenever I have time and mood, because, you know, Tony Robbins, you have to be in a certain state to get him. 

[00:40:10] And besides all the business and Amazon things that I’m not going to mention right now. But I have something it’s called Smart Agency masterclass by Jason Swank. It’s a different type of podcast, and it’s especially dedicated to agency owners of any type. Whatever you do and like not necessarily agency, but service. 

[00:40:34] If you’re a, I don’t know, broker you’re selling houses, you’re having a catering firm, everything there applies. And I strongly recommend his YouTube channel as well. You’ll find some very interesting things out there. Things that we all know, but we’re not aware, you know, that kind of feeling I get from listening to him. 

[00:40:56] Desiree Stanley: That’s fantastic. Thank you for sure for sharing that. And I’ll include that [00:41:00] as well. I’m curious. Now you’ve piqued my interest. I want to go check that out in the books as well. Excellent stuff. And so before we close out, Alina, I would love for you to share with the listeners. 

[00:41:13] How they might be able to find you and follow along your journey if you’re on, you know, Instagram or Facebook or LinkedIn, if you want to share that now, or how people can reach out to you if they have questions about what you’re doing as an entrepreneur, as you know, running your own Amazon agency, would you share that with us now? 

[00:41:34] Alina Vlaic: Of course, I’m on every social media platform with my name. Alina Vlaic, it’s on the screen but I’m sure it will be in the text as well. And as an email I will just leave my work email, which is alina@azrank.com. It’s my main email and I go through 35 times a day. 

[00:41:57] So I’m sure I won’t miss it. And I [00:42:00] would love to get some feedback or questions or however I could, I can help if I can, I would love to. 

[00:42:08] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. Thank you again for sharing that Alina, and thank you for your time and sharing your story and your knowledge and your experiences. I so appreciate it. 

[00:42:18] And I know the listeners will as well. So thank you. 

[00:42:22] Alina Vlaic: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was great talking about this kind of stuff. I loved it and looking forward to our next one. 

[00:42:31] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. We’ll talk more soon. 

[00:42:34] Alina Vlaic: Okay. Bye. 

[00:42:36] Desiree Stanley: Thank you dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it. 

[00:42:56] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, [00:43:00] stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Estelle Avbuere Podcast 02_28_2024
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:22] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today, I’m so excited to have my guest Estelle Avbuere. How are you today, Estelle? 

[00:00:35] Estelle Avbuere: I’m good. Thank you so much for having me on. I’m really excited to be on and I hope everyone listening is doing well as well.

[00:00:42] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. And I, again, am super excited about this conversation. We’re going to be talking about building confidence and also creativity as we are in our adulthood and like why that’s important. And so this is, super interesting [00:01:00] for me being kind of in this creative realm and how we can continue to grow and build those, confidence skills and the creativity as well.

[00:01:10] So super excited to talk about this with you today, but let’s start with you’re the CEO and owner of Creatively Performing Arts. And so I want you to tell us how did that kind of come to be for you? What sort of led you down this path? 

[00:01:28] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah, thanks so much for asking. I started Creatively Performing Arts. It’s an online voice and performing arts studio. And the dream is for it to really encapsulate all the arts, but right now I really focus on voice. I grew up dancing, singing, performing, doing theatre, which is what a lot of people in my online community also grew up doing, right?

[00:01:48] A lot of us grew up enjoying the arts, loving the arts, being involved in the arts in one way or another when we’re younger. And then at some point it could be, you change schools or you [00:02:00] get to high school and the focus is about getting into college or you get into college and the focus is about, doing a certain track and, or you get out of college and it’s, the real world, right?

[00:02:11] Quote unquote. And so. At some point in our growing up and getting into adulthood, it’s almost like a lot of times that creative spark in us that like love for the arts and performing kind of dwindles or gets pushed to the side a little bit. And I realized that for myself, I grew up, I was still loving the arts, even when I was in high school, I was involved in choirs, and it was when I got into college, I studied psychology, I was pre med, and I minored in voice for a few semesters, and I just did it because I was like, I really wanted a creative minor, like I wanted to do something where I was able to express myself, and I had grown up singing, and Loving choirs and loving to sing and perform.

[00:02:55] So I was like, okay, voice. And I felt like that I had something there. [00:03:00] And that was the first time that I was able to work one on one with voice teachers and really see what it’s like to take intentional time to look at my voice and to work on my craft one on one. And it was just so cool. I still was on the pre med path.

[00:03:15] I thought that was the only path for me. And while it’s a path for some people, it wasn’t really the path for me. I did still continue on after college. COVID happened right after I graduated. And I was at home. And I was like, well, I still want to have some sort of creative outlet before I go to med school, because that was still the path.

[00:03:35] And I was starting to take dance classes online again, I was starting to sing I was, I had been singing and then I had stopped my voice lessons I think my last semester of college. And so I was like, I want to still sing like I still want to do this. And so that spark that we all have, and a lot of us still have in us.

[00:03:58] For a specific craft, a [00:04:00] specific way to express our creativity. It was still there for me, but I was like, okay, like I’m just gonna, I’m just going to do it. I’m just going to take something, some sort of step. So I started to watch videos online. I started to post videos of myself singing on my Instagram, which I’d never really done before.

[00:04:15] Maybe like one or two times before. And I was like, Oh, wow, this is fun. It’s fun to actually put myself out there and really focus intentionally on my voice and something that I love to do just for myself, like it wasn’t like I was trying to be a singer per se, but I was like, well, I love doing this.

[00:04:32] And I also started auditioning online for different acting jobs as well. So I started getting into acting and singing and dancing. I was like, I really love all three. And I, in college and high school, I had started loving musical theater as well. And so I realized that I really enjoyed this.

[00:04:48] This is actually something I wanna take more seriously. But, I’d done all the work for med school and I was like, well, I think that I just have to go ahead and do that because that’s what everyone is telling me to do. And that’s what everyone [00:05:00] says I should do. Cause I do love people.

[00:05:02] I love to help people, but. I now know that the arts really help people. And so I went through a winding journey. I believe God really took me out of that journey and was like, you are still going to be an artist. And so I did go to med school a couple of semesters but it was over COVID.

[00:05:18] So part of it was online. It was a whole journey, but, and I talk about this on my podcast to give some more context, but at the end of the day I was like, There’s a lot of, we can invest a lot of time, money, and energy into doing, something that is important to us. may seem good on paper. However, it doesn’t mean that we should neglect our creative pursuits. It doesn’t mean that we should neglect that creative passion that we have, whether it’s as a hobby, whether it’s as some sort of creative outlet or a business. Or for me, it was, I knew that I wanted it to be my career actually, but everyone is different and it doesn’t really matter.

[00:05:58] It actually doesn’t matter whether [00:06:00] it’s taking that step to say that I want this as a career to be a singer and performer. Or, to take that step to say that I really want an intentional hobby, like I actually really want to start writing songs and I want to start, performing them at this local coffee shop open mic night that they do once a week.

[00:06:15] It doesn’t matter How big or small it is because it’s going to seem big anyway. It actually is going to feel big regardless of whether it’s a career or a hobby because it’s something that maybe you’ve pushed aside for some time. So what really matters is taking small steps of action.

[00:06:32] Taking small steps of action as an adult as you get older and you’re realizing that you have pushed aside that creative spark that you have it’s really important to just see what’s one small thing I can do today to start to explore that creativity again To start to explore my love for music and guitar and performance songwriting.

[00:06:52] Whatever it is what’s one small thing that I can do today? That’s It’s something that we can all do. And so, yeah, for me, that [00:07:00] meant transitioning my podcast to be focused on helping people start to sing and perform. And then I also started Creatively Performing Arts where I would teach voice online.

[00:07:10] So I teach voice lessons online. I host workshops and masterclasses and I also have a course coming out a singing course coming out to just help people take that small step of action to start to express themselves and build confidence in that as well. That was a bit of the story. I hope it wasn’t too long winded, but that’s how it all came to be and yeah, it’s exciting. And it’s going to keep going from here. 

[00:07:38] Desiree Stanley: Oh, definitely. And thank you for sharing that with us, Estelle. The part that you said about you took this path because it seemed like it was the, what you should do, or what you maybe had kind of been told to do. It seemed like the thing to do.

[00:07:56] I think that speaks to so many of us [00:08:00] because, this idea of we have to do the real job or, whatever Our parents told us to do. I think that so many of us have experienced that. Thank you for sharing how, you really began to realize that you didn’t have to do that.

[00:08:18] And you really could explore and grow and develop. Your passion and so I, I love that. So thank you for sharing that with us and how fabulous that you really have grown this into offering so many options for helping people to develop and build their skills with the offerings that you have a masterclass and your podcast and really, teaching people these skills.

[00:08:46] So that’s fantastic. Thanks for sharing that. So then let’s talk a little bit about how we can build on our confidence because. When we get into adulthood, there’s [00:09:00] I think we kind of get beat down a little bit and there’s a lot of fear and a lot of worrying about judgment.

[00:09:08] And so what can we do to help combat some of that? 

[00:09:13] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah. That’s very real. Immediately as soon as you decide to make a change, even if it feels small or you think that, oh, it’s really, shouldn’t be that big of a deal, immediately fear is going to come, doubt is going to come because it’s something that’s different and you’re not used to it, your body, your mind literally is not used to that.

[00:09:33] And so of course your body and your mind, they’re wanting to protect you. And so you’re going to feel that fear. So just expect it, be open to it, be aware of it, and kind of being aware of that helps whether that’s through journaling or through talking it out. But from there, it really does require a little bit of action, some action steps.

[00:09:54] And what I love to do to break it down I break this down at workshops and my master classes, [00:10:00] which are all free. I do a lot of free content as much as I can, because I want everyone to know. But I do have a course as well, which I teach this in as well. And it’s really about, first of all, you have to get to know your craft, like getting to know what is it you really want to do.

[00:10:15] Get to know it. This is a process that every artist takes, you get to know your voice So for me that was you know in my voice lessons in college I really started to understand like my voice and like how I can use my voice And singing different styles of music and i’d grown up singing my entire life So i’d already had that like I knew What my voice sounded like but it gets different when you get older anyway, so your voice is literally an instrument that’s Your body so it’s always going to change and they’re fluctuating different days from even day to day voice can change So you got to be open to just keep getting to know your voice And getting to love your voice.

[00:10:50] And that’s the same for any other craft that you have, any other artistic craft. You have to be open to just learning more about it. And then from there, you want to practice. [00:11:00] You want to take steps of like, How can I practice? How can I work on this in just, five minutes a day? Okay, that’s too much for you?

[00:11:07] No problem. Just do it for 15 minutes a week. Still too much? No problem. Do it for 20 minutes every two weeks or for 30 minutes once a month. It doesn’t really matter. It depends on your goals. But it’s at least something that you can look forward to, and you’re getting to practice and work on that thing that you love to do.

[00:11:23] For me as a voice teacher, I’m always saying okay, Let’s focus on your very simple practice routine, starting with warmups, getting to do vocal exercises that are actually enjoyable and not ones that are just like, okay, let me just get through this so I can actually sing, which is how I felt when I was in choir growing up sometimes I was like, I just want to get through the warmups to sing, it’s part of that.

[00:11:45] And so making time to practice that thing that you love to do. Even if it’s just a little bit of time and you’re like, okay, how does this help me build confidence? Don’t worry, this is all a part of the process. Every single step that you’re taking as you do this, [00:12:00] it’s helping build your confidence because first of all, you’re showing yourself, you’re proving to yourself that you can take steps of action.

[00:12:06] And the more you do something, the more your confidence is going to grow. It’s just inevitable. So it’s not like I made this up, it’s what everyone does and it’s inevitable. So as you get to know your craft, as you start to practice your craft from there, you can express it.

[00:12:19] You can put it out there, right? For me, that was posting on social media which was fun for me. I grew up performing anyway. Putting myself out there singing in choir. I lead and. worship in my church choir every week a couple times a week doing background vocals for other artists and things like that.

[00:12:36] So, auditioning, going on auditions, all of these are great ways to express your voice. So this can be for singers, it’s for actors, for dancers. Putting yourself out there, whatever that craft is, you have to put yourself out there at some point, and that’s like the fun part that we’re all like wanting to do, but it’s also the scariest part in a sense, and if you’re not a performing artist, maybe it’s sharing your art, maybe you paint and you’re sharing your painting, with a [00:13:00] friend, it can literally just be sending it to a friend, it doesn’t have to be on social media, it could be just Show it to your family, right?

[00:13:07] So express that craft. Now that you’ve gotten to know it a little bit, you know what the, a little bit of Technique for painting. A little bit about songwriting, okay? Now you’ve practiced it a bit. You’ve written some choruses. Maybe you’ve started to, work on some dances that you found online and whatever it is, you’ve practiced a bit.

[00:13:25] Now you’ve expressed it. You’ve put it out there, you’ve shown it to a friend. You’ve sung in front of someone. You’ve posted yourself dancing on your close friends story or your TikTok. It doesn’t matter. And then the last thing that you’re going to do, and this is all a process, so you’re doing all this continually.

[00:13:40] The last thing you want to do is you want to work on improving, okay? That is where you get into community, you get into coaching, and you yourself are willing to give yourself kind critiquing. You’re willing to share, listen back to yourself, if you’re singing, or watch your video as you are recording yourself performing a monologue, if you’re an actor, whatever it [00:14:00] is, and you actually give yourself that okay, this is where, this is what went well, this is what didn’t go so well, and that’s okay, we can work on it, we can improve, but it also helps to get in a community, to get around other people, there are free Facebook groups for performing artists, I have one myself so many musicians, songwriters, artists, like so many.

[00:14:18] There’s no excuse. We can all get into some sort of community. It could be, joining a community theater, a local art community, so many options going to a dance class, right? So these are ways to get into community. And also one on one coaching is a great way as well to get that improvement.

[00:14:35] It’s really a way to get feedback so that that you’re continuing to grow. And so that’s the process that I go through in the singing course that I have going out. That’s a process that I go through I talk about this on my podcast like it’s not like a secret. It’s just it’s what I talk about in my Workshops and stuff and that is how you build confidence.

[00:14:52] It really is. It’s in the doing it’s in the taking the steps and As you’re doing these things you’re doing it again and again, [00:15:00] like i’m constantly getting to know my voice more, you know I’m constantly i’m still practicing. I can’t just stop practicing just because i’ve put myself out there You know, I gotta keep practicing because I absolutely have so far that I need to grow And then I have to keep improving.

[00:15:12] There’s just no there’s no getting around it, you know being in my choir that’s a way for me to improve I get to be around other vocalists, so that’s how I like to Build it out for people is going through that process of knowing your craft. For me, I say voice, knowing your voice practicing your voice, expressing your voice, and then from there improve on it.

[00:15:31] And that is how you build confidence as a singer and performer. That’s literally all that I teach now. And I love it. And I like walking alongside people with it one on one, but honestly, you can do it and take action on that as well. So, yeah. 

[00:15:45] Desiree Stanley: Oh, my gosh, Estelle. That was fantastic. So many great points in there.

[00:15:50] I just have to say the taking small steps. Brilliant. That’s always great advice. And, practicing, [00:16:00] even if it’s just a little bit, now and again, anytime that we can get that practice and that’s going to help build our confidence and, increase our level of comfort as we are continuing to grow.

[00:16:11] Estelle. And you’re right. There is so many groups now that are available that we didn’t have, decades ago because of Facebook and love it or hate it, we, it gives us so many opportunities to connect with other people and that feedback, like you shared. From other people can help you continue to grow and build on whatever it is artistically that you’re doing.

[00:16:37] And even if it’s not artistically, if it’s, something else that you’re a business that you’re trying to build, getting that feedback from people that are in groups. It’s just another fantastic point there. And then. What you shared about this taking the steps like that you actually have to do the thing and it’s so [00:17:00] uncomfortable the first few times if you’re doing something live or if you’re doing something even like this where it’s recorded, it is so scary, but it gets less scary the more often that we do it.

[00:17:11] Thank you for reiterating that because I think that’s totally valid. So let’s change gears a little bit and let’s talk about why it’s so good for our overall well being, creativity and arts and kind of like why it’s so crucial for us in our development.

[00:17:33] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah, oh, that’s so good. That’s such a good question. So I did study psychology in undergrad right now I would I say now that I went from med school to music school because now i’m in a music master’s program and what I do love about it is that it does kind of integrate a lot of psychology And music and it’s made me start to think I’ve just started my classes. I’m still growing. I’m still learning But just to be completely real but it’s made me start to realize and to think about [00:18:00] Because it’s music and music education. And so we’re thinking about not just like us as musicians, but as people who are sharing, music with other people especially younger people, if that’s something that you want to do.

[00:18:10] And it’s really made me think about how the arts and music are literally so, so powerful in their ability to help us to connect with. ourselves and other people. So there was one article, I can’t remember what it was called, I hate to reference it, not know the reference, but there was one article that was talking about music and utilizing music in classrooms and how to kind of help students work with each other and support each other, especially students who maybe are different a couple of different backgrounds and things like that and how they can use music and learn music and practice music, make music together and how it helps them to connect with each other.[00:19:00] 

[00:19:00] And so I think we lose that as we get older. So as you’re asking about, like, how does this help us, as we are developing, we’re still developing, even as adults, I’m a young adult. It doesn’t matter where you are in life, music still has that power to connect you to yourself and to other people, just like it does for kids, right?

[00:19:18] When you see kids in a classroom, like a music class, and at least for me, that was my experience, like, all there is just joy and there’s so much happiness and you end up loving the people that you’re in, like a drama. Class with or the people that you do theater with the people that you sing with in your choir You just get so bonded over those songs that you worked on for so long, And it’s wow, like we can still have access to that as adults We can still access the beauty of connection that comes from music and from learning music and learning whatever the artistic outlet is because it’s not just for singing, it’s for acting, dancing.

[00:19:56] It connects you with other people who are doing it as well. And then it also [00:20:00] connects you with yourself, and you realize that, if you think about it what was the last time you did something that just made you so happy? Just cause, and it just made you so excited, and you felt so creative, and you had all these ideas coming, and that’s what music does, that’s what the arts do, it broadens your perspective, and you get excited, and you start to experience I loved that, I loved doing that, you’ll hear people say oh my gosh, I loved that dance class It just felt so good and we kind of forget that feeling as we get older Sometimes I think it can sometimes get lost in like the busyness of life even for me Like I teach voice and I sing but like I’m working right now while i’m in grad school and i’m still transitioning to like in my business as well and so it it’s really easy to get kind of lost in that and forget like Oh my gosh, there’s so much happiness to be had from experiencing and engaging in music and connection to myself and to other people and so I think that’s really, for me at least, that’s what I’ve seen that wellness aspect of it where that is, I’ve been able to connect with myself love my voice more, love, more about myself and [00:21:00] putting that out there, I’ve been able to connect with other people who also love to To sing and also love music and he’ll be like, Oh my gosh, I love that song, and you doing your craft, you singing, you performing, you doing the thing that you love to do creatively.

[00:21:12] It’s going to connect you with other people as well as yourself and you’ll get to, have that spark of joy, that spark of creativity as well. 

[00:21:19] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I 100 percent agree that music can absolutely spark joy and creativity and connection with others. I completely agree with that. And what I was thinking when you were talking about music with kids is, yes they’ve done studies that show even as you’re studying, listening to, Mozart and that kind of thing kind of activates the brain differently. And so you are retaining what you’re studying a little bit better. And so, that is just a whole nother aspect of what music can do, but it’s so true.

[00:21:55] The joy that we feel when we’re listening to music that, that we enjoy. [00:22:00] And, going to concerts and you see the joy of other people and having a great time in that connection that you are building together is, I completely agree with that. Yeah, it’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that with us.

[00:22:11] I want to talk now about maybe. And you touched on this a little bit, like as we go through life, we are maybe bogged down by, kind of the everyday things that have to be done, our daily busyness, but how, are there some things you can suggest that people might try to do to incorporate this creativity and these activities back into their life so that it still remains a part of what you’re doing with your life.

[00:22:42] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah, I love this question. How to take little steps of action, like in your life, basically to be more creative. I love that. That’s so good. I would say it’s good to kind of know where the pockets of time are in your life. I say, I would say, because sometimes life is [00:23:00] so busy that you’re like, I don’t even, I can’t even begin to think about, doing anything outside of what I actually have to do.

[00:23:06] Which I completely don’t want to, just brush that off and act like that’s not relevant or, you know, real. But, kind of assess like, okay, what are some places where I can actually do something for myself or do something that I enjoy to do, enjoy doing, or even share with other people?

[00:23:22] And it could be, like, at the end of your day. So, for me, I had a challenge for myself. I think it was the year before last where I started it. And I started just posting on TikTok, on my TikTok song a day. It wasn’t every day eventually, but it was like a song of the day and it was like at the end of my day usually And I was like, okay, I’m I would be like a sweatshirt, you know I’m like about to go to sleep a lot of times I didn’t even have makeup on or anything and I was just like, okay I’m gonna sing this musical theater song cuz I love musical theater so I would just choose a song that I love to sing or that I was listening to recently I would just sing and it Would usually I would just take one or two takes like I try not to do more than three takes of it And it wasn’t the whole song.

[00:23:59] It was [00:24:00] just a little clip And then I would just post it and yeah, it didn’t take me long to do and it was just a fun thing to do so it can be as simple as that like it can literally be as simple as like I’m just gonna post like a story of myself singing tonight and say singing before bed or something like that, it can be something like that.

[00:24:15] But it can be so many other little things you can just challenge yourself to sign up for a dance class every month, Once a month, a lot of dance classes, especially for like adult classes, will offer a voucher or some sort of where you can do a pass. That’s what it’s called. Like a class pass where you can purchase maybe like 10 classes or something to use for like the next several months or the next year or something.

[00:24:37] So it’s not like you have to do it every single week at a certain time. Like when you were younger. It allows that flexibility so you don’t have to go to the class every single week. You can go once a month, and there you go. There’s your dance class. It could also look this weekend you decide that you’re going to journal a little bit and you’re also going to maybe write a little bit of poetry, write a little bit of poetry.

[00:24:57] Maybe it’ll become a song, so it is nice to think about [00:25:00] like, how does your week go? What are some places that you could make space for it? And then how can you practically hold yourself accountable. So it could be, signing up for a dance class, you’ve paid money, so you definitely are going to want to go, right?

[00:25:11] You can do that like once a month. It doesn’t have to be every time. Even a voice lesson, you can do like once a month. And once you sign up, you hold yourself accountable, you got to go. And so that’s an easy way to do it. Otherwise you can just in a few minutes every day or a few minutes in a week, you can find a way to put yourself out there.

[00:25:27] And on social media, and do a challenge like I did, or even just like in your own private time making space for yourself in a few minutes a week. So those are some thoughts off the top of my head but yeah. 

[00:25:41] Desiree Stanley: Fantastic tips. Thank you for sharing those ideas with us. What you said about the accountability.

[00:25:48] I’m huge on, accountability partners being accountable to other people. And so the suggestion about signing up for a dance class, where you’ve, put some money out. And so, if [00:26:00] you’re going to go you, you want to use the money that you. Put forth, right? So you’re going to be accountable to go into that class, even if it’s just once a month.

[00:26:08] And that’s a great idea as well. When we’re kids or we have children, we’re used to taking them on a daily basis or a weekly basis. And that can be just way too time consuming for us, as adults. But once a month is. Certainly an accessible starting point. And, finding those windows of time, like you suggested is so, so important, even if it’s just five minutes, at the end of the day or 10 minutes or whatever you can devote to, spending and working on your craft or your art or, your singing, whatever the case may be.

[00:26:43] I think that’s such a great suggestion. So thank you for sharing those with us. Yeah. And I want to talk about the podcast that you have, which you hinted at earlier a couple of times. And so let’s talk about that now. What is your show called [00:27:00] and how often do you have episodes and, tell us more about it.

[00:27:03] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah, it’s called the Sing Confidently, Live Creatively Podcast, so it’s all about helping you build confidence as you start singing and performing again, so that you can actually live a creative life. And that’s the goal, ultimately. I just want people to live more creative lives, whether that’s as a career, as a hobby, as a creative outlet.

[00:27:21] Your life will be more creative just by listening to the show. I’m just gonna challenge you to make sure that you are taking the steps of action. And, yeah, I love this show I love interviewing artists I interviewed a lot of artists from different backgrounds different walks of life.

[00:27:35] I’ve interviewed like local musicians who I’ve worked with, along with also Broadway performer who I love who was in the national tour of Hadestown. And she’s so cool. And all the stories are beautiful. I’ve interviewed friends, like musician friends that I have, and artist friends that I have, and I’ve been able to hear more about their story.

[00:27:55] And I learned so much, I’ve also been able to interview like a Latin Grammy Award winner who [00:28:00] like worked with Gloria Estefan. And there’s just so many beautiful incredible artists in this world. And I just want to get all their stories and share them with as many people as possible to show us what is possible when we start to sing and perform and do the things we love again.

[00:28:14] That’s what the show is about. I also do practical stuff, I’ve done episodes on like five practical ways that you can start being more creative this week. Things like that little things you can do. I’ve done episodes that are like, just warm up with me, sing along this vocal warmup, things like that.

[00:28:26] I’ve always done one full episode every Monday since the very beginning, except for a few, breaks here and there, very few and far between, but every Monday and now I do every Wednesday, I do like a mini episode as well just to speak from my heart and give some encouragement in the middle of the week for anyone who’s So, 

[00:28:43] Desiree Stanley: I love it. I will, for sure, include that information in the show notes so that the listeners can find your show. It sounds fantastic, and I’m so looking forward to going and hearing your episodes as well. You’re gonna have a new follower for sure, because [00:29:00] I love it. And I also always love to ask my guests.

[00:29:04] If there’s books that they’ve read or are reading now that they have found beneficial or influential that they want to share with the listeners, I would love to have you share that with us now. 

[00:29:14] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love books. So, it was hard for me to narrow it down, but yeah, I love books like, not just fictional but non fictional too and like personal development.

[00:29:24] I would say one of my favorite ones for artists that I recommend is by Jeff Goins. Real Artists Don’t Starve. I think it’s a great one for if you’re wanting to do this professionally or even as a side hob hobby or hustle and make a little bit of money on the side doesn’t matter. Or even if you just want to take your your craft more seriously, he really talks about just knowing your worth as an artist and being able to, build a business around yourself if you’d like to do that, or just like putting yourself out there, he talks about putting yourself out there and finding community, and so real artists don’t starve it’s all about changing the mindset that we [00:30:00] have around the arts, which is so prevalent in our society, we don’t even realize it, and he really breaks it down so well, He’s awesome. Hope I have him on my podcast one day. He’s great. 

[00:30:10] Desiree Stanley: Excellent recommendation. I do like that because. You’re right. I think people assume that if you’re going to get into singing, acting, theater, anything like that, that it’s challenging. It’s a challenging arena to get into, there’s no question, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not possible.

[00:30:33] And so I love this idea of they don’t starve. So great recommendation. So I’ll include that in the show notes. Is there any others that you’d like to share? 

[00:30:44] Estelle Avbuere: Oh my goodness. Oh, so many good ones. I love the Jordan Rainer master of one. It’s all about finding like focus on your it’s not just for creatives.

[00:30:55] It’s actually kind of like entrepreneurs too, but also just like the idea of having a [00:31:00] focus which is really cool if you’re wanting to start to. Be creative, because sometimes you have so many ideas of what to do, so it helps you kind of focus on what are you good at, what do you love to do, how can you be of service to other people, and kind of focus on your thing, and be a master of one thing.

[00:31:14] I believe that’s Jordan Rainer.

[00:31:16] Desiree Stanley: Great. Awesome. Yeah. I’ll for sure. Look that up, make sure we’ve got that author title and I’ll include that in the show notes for the listeners. And then lastly, Estelle I would love for you to share. If you’re on Instagram, which you mentioned Facebook, if you’ve got your group, where can people find you follow along with what you’re doing and maybe ask you questions and get some help in building their skills and their creativity.

[00:31:43] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah. Thank you so much for asking. Thank you for a beautiful interview. So fun. You can find me at my podcast, Sing Confidently, Live Creatively. I’m there every week without fail. And also on Instagram, Estelle Avbuere. It’s just my first and last name. Estelle Avbuere, A V B U E R [00:32:00] E. But I know it’ll be in the show notes and it’s also in my that’s my name on Instagram.

[00:32:05] That’s my name on Facebook as well. And on Tik TOK, but I think it’s Estelle Avbuere underscore on Tik TOK. So yeah, that’s pretty much my name everywhere. You can also find me on my website creativelybyestelle.com. 

[00:32:18] Desiree Stanley: Perfect. Thank you so much. And definitely that will all be in the show notes for the listeners to find you easily.

[00:32:24] Estelle I have enjoyed our conversation so much. Thank you for joining us and sharing your knowledge and this information with us on, how we can continue to grow and develop and build our skills and our confidence in not just in arts, but kind of in everyday life, I feel like. And so thank you again.

[00:32:46] So much. 

[00:32:47] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah, no problem. Thank you so much for having me on. And thank you to everyone for listening. Yeah, 

[00:32:54] Desiree Stanley: well, we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:32:56] Estelle Avbuere: Yeah.

[00:32:56] Desiree Stanley: Thank you dear listeners for tuning in to another [00:33:00] insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:33:14] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Melissa Yamashita Podcast 2_02_21_2024
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:22] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with us again is my special friend, Melissa Yamashita. Thank you for coming on the show and joining us and sharing your knowledge with us, Melissa. How are you doing? 

[00:00:38] Melissa Yamashita: I’m doing really well. Thanks. Thank you for inviting me back, Desiree. It’s really good to see you. And it’s really good to be back here. 

[00:00:44] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. And I am thrilled to have you back because you shared with us some great information in my very first episode of the pockets of knowledge. And so you’re back to share some more fantastic [00:01:00] information with us. Melissa, you are the owner and founder of My Nutrition My Way.

[00:01:06] And you are also a certified nutrition coach. You’re a fitness guru. And you’re also telling me that you’re completing now certified next level training for menopausal athletes. And so this is exciting. Congratulations on that. 

[00:01:26] Melissa Yamashita: Thank you. Yeah. Really exciting because this is a point in my life that I’m going through as well.

[00:01:31] So it’s very relevant to me personally. 

[00:01:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, definitely. And me as well, I’m in the same boat. And as are many of the listeners. So thank you again for joining us. We’re going to talk a little bit about exercise and, as you’re going from your thirties, your forties and your fifties and so on, and really.

[00:01:52] The changes that you need to be considering as you’re moving through those decades. Before we jump into that, let’s have you [00:02:00] start with sharing your story briefly about what kind of led you to launching My Nutrition My Way, and fill us in with that.

[00:02:10] Melissa Yamashita: Okay I wasn’t athletic as a teen, as a young adult. I wasn’t athletic, I was on the crew team at my college, but I was the coxswain, so I was more sedentary. But I was around athletes. And then I did a little bit of running here and there, those fun, like five Ks, 10 Ks and stuff.

[00:02:28] But I definitely not have considered myself an athlete or an athletic person. And as I moved into my twenties, early thirties, I had my first child and I, like a lot of other people, I was waiting for something to switch to help me get into shape, the shape that I wanted to be in.

[00:02:46] And I don’t know what happened, but I had this realization that I’m going to have to take the first step. I need to get this done. And so I started going to the gym with one of my friends every morning. And we just started going to the gym and we’d run on the treadmill for a little bit.

[00:02:59] And then [00:03:00] it became a habit for me. And that just slowly developed into me, getting into a little bit of weight training and then me doing longer runs and me, eventually joining classes at the YMCA, which led to me becoming a group exercise instructor at the YMCA. And so this was a seemingly long process at the time, but looking back at it, it’s the evolution of it.

[00:03:22] I joined running groups. I met other people and I surrounded myself. Eventually, my group of friends, my support system were the athletically minded, the like minded group of friends. And so now that has evolved into also backstory. I have a degree in nutritional science from Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo, but I never pursued that.

[00:03:44] It’s not back in that day. It was more of a clinical studies, clinical work, and that’s not what I wanted to do. But I did have that foundation, and I always like food. Who doesn’t really? I had that, the fitness side of it. And then I started to delve [00:04:00] into more of the nutrition aspect of it in order to boost my training and my performance.

[00:04:05] And then we put that together and here we are. So yeah, it’s been a, like I said, a very kind of slowish evolution trajectory. But it was all very worthwhile, like every single step of that process gave me the knowledge and the experience that I have now that I tried to share with my clients.

[00:04:24] So yeah, all very helpful. 

[00:04:27] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, definitely. And you touched on something that we’re going to expand on a little bit later. And that’s the kind of accountability that you have with the different people that you surround yourself with, the different groups that you’ve joined and the friends that you’ve made through this.

[00:04:41] And so we can. Talk about that in a little bit because I do want to kick it off with this idea of as we’re moving from our thirties into our forties and fifties, what kind of exercise do we need to be considering so that when we get into our fifties and our sixties and beyond we’re [00:05:00] still in good health and good fitness and we can still live vibrant, healthy lives.

[00:05:05] Melissa Yamashita: Yeah, definitely. This was a big shock for me. Like I said, I was in, I was teaching group fitness classes. I was doing my own personal training, running marathons, endurance training, and I was lifting weights because I just enjoyed that. It really empowered me. And then about like my late forties, early fifties, I’m only 54.

[00:05:26] So I’m still in my early fifties, but late fifties. late 40s, maybe about 50, something just switched where before I was able to, go out with friends and enjoy a couple of drinks, have some appetizers. And the next day I could still get up and pound out, six, seven hard miles and feel fine.

[00:05:45] And then go to work and feel fine, recover, fine, and then do that again, continue to do that. As I hit, Like I said, 49, 50 years old, something just switched. And all of a sudden, I couldn’t, I wasn’t able to bounce back that way. [00:06:00] I would, if I would nowadays, when I go out with friends and I have those same, couple of drinks and the same appetizers I’m done for a couple of days and I can see.

[00:06:08] feel the difference on my body. I can see the difference in my body. I can feel the difference mentally. And it’s just that switch really affected me. And so I’ve had to change my exercise thought mindset and change a lot of things. So as we go after about the age of 30, there’s this thing called sarcopenia, and it really just means that our bodies are shrinking.

[00:06:33] Our muscle mass is deteriorating. And we’re just shedding muscle, unless we are actively fighting day after day, week after week, consistently, in order to keep that muscle. And that’s why strength training is so important. For us to do, because if you’re losing, three to 8 percent of your muscle mass from each decade going into your seventies, eighties, that’s when you end up being that person who is wheelchair bound, being that person who [00:07:00] needs to get help, getting off the toilet, get help sitting down, get help getting up, and I don’t want to be that person.

[00:07:05] I’m sure your listeners don’t want to be that person. I know you don’t want to be that person either. So we have to actively fight. So strength training is super important. As you get, in every stage of your But especially as you move into into your. Golden years, whatever. It helps with bone density so you can fight osteoporosis as well.

[00:07:25] For me, I get out my, all this stuff from the week. When I’m exercising, when I’m strength training, it makes me feel very empowered as a woman as well, being in the gym and being able to, bench press and Lift and all that stuff.

[00:07:37] It’s super empowering for me. So I think it’s just really important to understand all of the different facets that building muscle hits in our lives. It’s not just I want to look big. I’m not doing this to do to be big. We shouldn’t be weight training to be big. We shouldn’t be exercising to be skinny.

[00:07:55] We should be doing it because we want to be strong. I want to be able to [00:08:00] play with my grandchildren on the floor and then get up without them helping me. I want to be able to do that. And I’m sure you have people in your life that you can see who’s still very active.

[00:08:09] They’re very active, older adults. And then you see the other side of the coin as well. People who just sit in their recliner and watch television all day. Who do you want to be? I know who I want to be. And so it’s definitely the former and not the latter. So yeah, but it’s an active fight.

[00:08:27] Active fight. 

[00:08:28] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, you made some great points in there for sure about we need to be diligent in this work and it’s not about being, Arnold Schwarzenegger big or, some of these other bodybuilders or whatever. It’s not about that. It’s maintaining and trying to keep the muscle that you have, right?

[00:08:48] Yes. And so that continues to carry you through. It’s such a great point. And so let’s maybe talk a little bit about because you’ve mentioned how for you, the lifting is very [00:09:00] empowering, but maybe for somebody who’s a little bit intimidated by that, what are some maybe Things that they could try, they could do at home, or if they are at a gym, what are some things that they could do?

[00:09:12] Melissa Yamashita: So first of all, before we, I want to I don’t know if it’s a disclaimer or whatever, I just want to say women need to stop trying to shrink. and fit into, this type of like box or stereotype or whatever. We need to take up our space and don’t be afraid to take up that space.

[00:09:27] Let’s like stand up and walk into the gym and in all of the gyms that I have been in, there are always, people at the desk who are very friendly and open to sharing their knowledge. If this is your first time, a lot of time as well as a new member, then they will take you on a little tour of the gym.

[00:09:42] To give you some kind of like the download on, on, on where the different machines are and stuff. I would recommend starting off with, machines are a great way to start off. You want to get in your basic your overhead pressing, you want to get in some kind of hinge movement.

[00:09:57] You want to get in some kind of squats and [00:10:00] you just watch the people around you, watch the people around you also too. Ask somebody who looks like they’ve been there for a while, looks like they know what they’re doing. Excuse me, ma’am, sir. How do you do this? I’ve been watching you.

[00:10:11] Why do you do that? What do you do? I think there’s maybe some kind of stigma that a lot of people in the gyms are like, they’re showing off or whatever. But I think a lot of people, we’re all there for the same reason. We’re all trying to just get into the healthiest.

[00:10:24] Meet as healthy as we can. So I think people would welcome, questions so you can go in. You can get a team member to take you on a tour and show you a lot of times they’ll offer like a personal training session for free. You could ask questions. There are plenty of YouTube videos online that are great.

[00:10:44] YouTube videos that are free as well. There’s a lot of things that you, a lot of equipment that you can do at home. There’s a whole plethora of things that you could do. They have apps on your phone. The thing is that you want to make sure that you are, [00:11:00] I would suggest as a newcomer. Go with a program and stick to it.

[00:11:05] Right? Work on your form. Watch the videos or watch somebody else, whomever it might be. Work on your form. Look at a mirror. The mirrors are in the gyms are there for you to check your form, not to check your judgment, not for judgment. They’re there for you to check your form if you need to videotape yourself when you are alone or when you have the permission of other people so you can see your form as well.

[00:11:29] Not, you’re not videotaping yourself again for judgment. This is what I would suggest so you can check your form. Make sure you’re doing it right so you don’t injure yourself. And so you can progress and add weight. If you’re doing it at home, just pick a time in the day where you can be consistent.

[00:11:44] Consistency is key. A lot of people like, oh, it’s really hard for me. Oh, I don’t know where I can fit it in. Oh, I don’t have an hour, so I’m not going to go. I’m not going to do this because I don’t have X amount of time. Forget that. Spare it down to 15 [00:12:00] minutes. Even 10 minutes done more consistently is better than 60 minutes, two hours inconsistently, right?

[00:12:09] You’re not trying to be perfect. You’re just trying to build that habit. Those are my biggest tips for somebody. 

[00:12:17] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love it. Those are excellent suggestions. And I think what you pointed out about the people at the gym where you can feel like maybe I shouldn’t ask them they’re in the middle of their workout or they’re busy or whatever, but I think we are often surprised people are happy to share what they’re doing and help you.

[00:12:36] And I think that we’re cool. We tend to be afraid to ask for help, but when we do, it gives that person an opportunity to be helpful and then that, fills them up too. So I think that’s something good to remember. And I love the point that you made about the consistency of even 10 minutes a day.

[00:12:56] If you’re doing that consistently versus an hour that you only [00:13:00] do once every couple of weeks. Yes. Right. What’s better here? The 10 minutes consistently is far better. 

[00:13:07] Melissa Yamashita: Exactly. There’s things now that are called mini workout snacks. Some people call them workout snacks. And it’s something that you can do like in your kitchen while you’re waiting for your coffee to brew.

[00:13:19] 15, 20 squats or drop and do 10 push ups or if you work at home, you need to stand up and walk around a little bit, then do some squats and do some push ups, do some jumping jacks. I don’t know, but just little bouts of exercise or a movement interspersed within your day, you can’t avoid it.

[00:13:38] We’re all sitting, standing around at some point in the day. So movement. Yeah, just keep that body moving. 

[00:13:45] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. Good points. So then let’s talk a little bit about the accountability that you can have with different groups and maybe some fun things that you can do together that kind of give you that [00:14:00] motivation to do this work.

[00:14:02] Because, Let’s face it. Motivation is a problem for a lot of us. And so what do you suggest? And some fun things to do. 

[00:14:11] Melissa Yamashita: So you can, if you have a small Children, just make movement part of your day with small Children. It can be, as something as simple as like dancing with them, something as taking them out for a walk.

[00:14:22] If you have pets, you and I both have pets. We love to take our dogs out for walks, right? The dogs need exercise. We need exercise. Do that. Things that have been extremely beneficial for me surrounding yourself with like minded people, right? There are tons of Facebook groups. You and I both We’re part of the moms run this town in Morgan Hill and Gilroy.

[00:14:42] That’s how we got our start. And then from there, you meet other people and you branch out or you stay with the group. It’s all good, that accountability comes in group texts, Facebook messages. Hey, I’m running, On Sunday, who’s in and if I say I’m in unless you know something really happens so [00:15:00] that the night before I’m thinking, okay, I need to wake up and be ready to run by 5 o’clock.

[00:15:05] I better go to bed at 9 o’clock. And then I need to eat this and drink this and all this stuff. You surround yourself with like minded people. Take advantage of your family members or your pets to get out there and go join Facebook groups. Again, it’s like a little bit of putting yourself out there.

[00:15:23] You can also find an accountability partner. You and I both know the benefits of having an accountability partner and that person, you’re in it together, right? And you hold yourself accountable, exactly how it sounds. And I know that when I text my accountability partner at night, I am saying, I did this and tomorrow I’m going to do this.

[00:15:42] So I have it in the back of my head. I told her I was going to do that. I need to do that. I write my goals down every morning in my journal for today, and you’ve got to be. Realistic about it today. Sometimes it’s like I’m just going to do 15 minutes of something just 15 minutes. But again, I have that in the back of my [00:16:00] head that I committed to 15 minutes.

[00:16:02] And so I know I need to do that. At some point we’re all adults, right? You’re an adult. You can’t count on motivation all the time. So you have to build this discipline with the help of others in the beginning. And then when you have that discipline, that’s when motivation or not, you’re getting things done.

[00:16:23] That’s where, single step, just take that single step and then build from there. And that’s how you get to the top of the staircase. 

[00:16:31] Desiree Stanley: Yes, for sure. And the point that you made about the accountability and that is so huge. It really makes such a difference when you have committed to somebody else that you’re going to do something.

[00:16:43] I think that gives us that kind of pressure that, okay, I better do what I said. I’m going to do because I told them I was going to do it. Or if I said, I’m going to be there. I better be there because they’re counting on me. And I think that helps when we don’t have that motivation for [00:17:00] sure.

[00:17:00] So what about some, and you started this group where you’re like fun challenges to do with other people. And so do you want to share that with us? 

[00:17:12] Melissa Yamashita: I started, the new year, new me on Facebook one of the running the fitness groups that I belong to. We did a month long through the month of January just a little habit challenge and it wasn’t specific to fitness or nutrition.

[00:17:26] It was a lot of things. It was specific to fitness in the sense that it was a holistic approach to building habits that would help you, just. take your life up a notch. So some of the habits were, and again, they weren’t like huge habits. They were all very accessible. Seven minutes of meditation a day, 20 minutes of nonfiction reading drinking half your body weight in ounces of water a day, starting off your day with a high protein breakfast.

[00:17:55] Seven hours of sleep a night. And one that was that I took on, [00:18:00] which is challenging for me, turning off all tech screens, technology, phone, everything an hour before bedtime. For the challenge, everybody chose 3. Three habits, and then for each day you would get two points if you completed that habit.

[00:18:17] And then one point, if you attempted the habit but didn’t fully complete it, I didn’t wanna penalize anybody for starting the habit in good faith, but not being able to complete it because then you get deterred and you’re like, oh, if I can’t do it fully, I’m not even gonna do it.

[00:18:33] The whole idea was to build consistency, but also that more than nothing, right? That whole more than nothing instead of the all or nothing. So there was a day, for example, what my three habits were seven minutes of meditation, one hour of no technology before bed and 20 minutes of nonfiction reading.

[00:18:51] One night, for example, I was meditating. I’m not the best meditator, but I was trying my best. And I was like five minutes in and [00:19:00] the dog is scratching at the door to get into the bedroom. And I could not ignore it any longer. But I figured, okay, I good faith attempt. I gave my one point I know I tried it.

[00:19:12] The next day I was able for the rest of the time I was able to complete it because I would announce then I learned I announced to the family. Hey, I’m meditating now, so nobody would bother me. I learned like I figured out what I had to tweak other members to oh, I said, I’m going to drink half my body weight in water.

[00:19:29] I need to buy a bigger water bottle because I’m a bigger guy or I went on this road trip and I didn’t have my water with me. I need to remember to buy, extra bottles and make sure they’re strategically located. All sorts of things. There are all sorts of little Oh yeah, light bulb moments that people have.

[00:19:45] I think it was really helpful. There was one participant in the challenge who Realize I think two weeks into the challenge, she realized that she was working two jobs and she realized that she was putting her health [00:20:00] like third on her list of priorities.

[00:20:01] Job one job to her health. And so she quit one of her jobs because of this challenge. She quit one of her jobs, took her three habits into full swing and has now committed to working on her health. That’s what the power of these 30 day challenges can do. When it’s just like a team getting together, putting our heads together.

[00:20:24] We had weekly Zoom check ins, hey, what’s going well for you? What’s not going well for you? How did you overcome this? And just all that support and communication and talk and dialogue and all that stuff was super helpful for a lot of people, helpful to the point where we’re going to continue on with our weekly check ins, even though the challenge has officially ended, we’re going to continue on with our weekly check ins.

[00:20:47] So that’s a huge plus, right? That’s a huge win. Yeah. So I’m super stoked about that. Very happy. 

[00:20:53] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. Thank you for sharing all of that with us. And I love the idea of more than [00:21:00] nothing. Versus all or nothing. I think that’s a huge thing that we need to remember that you’re making an effort and give yourself that credit that you tried and even if you couldn’t finish it you still made the effort and tried.

[00:21:14] I think that’s huge because so often we just throw our hands up in the air and say I just, I couldn’t do it. And so that’s it. And that actually leads me to this question I was going to ask you is this episode is going to air in February. Many people have New Year’s resolutions for health and fitness and all of this.

[00:21:36] And at this point, how many people have just said, forget it. And so for those people who, maybe are hitting that point, what can they do to carry on and something that I love the idea of is that every day is a new day. Exactly. You don’t need to wait for a Monday.

[00:21:57] You don’t need to wait for, January [00:22:00] 1st. So what are your thoughts on this? 

[00:22:02] Melissa Yamashita: Totally. I totally agree with that. A lot of people are set at this, Oh Monday. And in the meantime, I am going to spiral out of control because it’s Friday right now. And I’m going to, enjoy the weekend and go, full force on the debauchery and decadence.

[00:22:17] And then on Monday, I will. Automatically, you’ll reel it in. That’s not not practical, right? So just, get rid of that again, starting new on Monday mindset. Just start with your next meal, you are one meal away from being healthier. You are one walk away from being healthier. Being healthier, one bike ride away from one phone call away maybe more better mental health.

[00:22:41] It’s just taking that next step. What’s that little step that you can take. And if it doesn’t have to be a big one. It doesn’t have to be like, okay, I’m going to go vegan in my next meal. No, just, add a. Eat some carrots for Pete’s sake, eat some carrots with if you’re gonna have a hamburger.

[00:22:57] Okay, eat some carrots with your hamburger. Add [00:23:00] something small in right go for a 10 minute walk after dinner. That’s not going to kill you. It’s fine. And then you can come back and do whatever you want. You’re not really, pick up a book and just turn off the television for a second and read a couple pages of a book, because the studies show that, if you can, if you put on your shoes to go out for a walk, and you get into your mind, okay, I’m going to go five minutes walk, chances are, you’re going to go for longer than five minutes, right?

[00:23:24] You’re like, I got my shoes on already. It’s a beautiful day. I’m already out here. I might as well go for seven, 10, 20 minutes, or if I get to a really good place in my book Oh, this is really interesting for me. I’m not going to put it down yet. I’m going to read for longer.

[00:23:37] So you just take that baby step. It doesn’t have to be big and you can’t wait for motivation. Cause you’ve got to be your own motivation. You’ve got to be your own motivation where again, you’ve got to step it up. Step up. 

[00:23:51] Desiree Stanley: Oh yeah. A hundred percent agree with that. And the, I love the idea of baby steps and that goes along with a book that you and I have both read Atomic [00:24:00] Habits and I’ve had other podcast guests mention it.

[00:24:03] It is such a great book has, 

[00:24:05] Melissa Yamashita: okay. I’ve got it right here. 

[00:24:07] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So you just were holding it up for the listeners and all included in the show notes. I’ve had a multiple guests who’ve talked about this book because it is so fantastic is ideas of, just a percentage better like every day and his habit stacking your kind of tying habits together.

[00:24:25] Once you get something under your belt and you’ve got that down, what else can you tie to that? And then now you’ve got two habits and you’re moving forward. So I love the idea of baby steps and just, that, all right, I’m going to just, not go crazy this next meal, I’m going to reel it in and I’m going to just add this vegetable in or whatever it is.

[00:24:46] So I love that, idea to bring you back to where you want it to be. Without it having to be a Monday 

[00:24:54] Melissa Yamashita: It doesn’t have to be this huge undertaking, right? Because then that’s going to overwhelm [00:25:00] people. It’s just take it small. Okay. 

[00:25:03] Start with something. And yeah, remember in atomic habits, he’s talking about goals. Everybody has the same goal. Everybody wants to be strong, fast. Fit, funny, smart, live long, right? But if you don’t have those habits to support that, everybody wants that, right? So it’s not about the goal.

[00:25:23] It’s not about having goals. It’s about having habits. It’s about having that system that’s going to get you to the goal. So what’s this next thing? And what’s something I’m all about? Adding things in. And especially as a nutrition coach, adding things in as opposed to taking things away. We get very resistant when people come say you’re not going to eat carbs.

[00:25:42] You’re not going to eat this. You’re not going to do this. Some people get very resistant to that. And I understand that. So let’s add something in. And little by little, eventually all that other stuff will get overshadowed, yeah, it’s a lot easier to add that it is to subtract.

[00:25:59] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. No, [00:26:00] I love that. I love that point you just made. People do become very resistant when you say you can’t have this or we’re taking this away. And suddenly you’re like, but no, I don’t want to give that up. I don’t want to. And then, or you. Have it on the side and you’re pretending like you’re not having it, but you’re still having it.

[00:26:18] Yeah. Yeah. So that’s such a great thing. That, that shift in the mindset, I think is big. So you just shared with us a, an approach, but what are maybe some other. Things that people can do, like maybe that are effective in helping people to reach these goals that they’ve set for themselves.

[00:26:37] Melissa Yamashita: So talking about goals specifically, write them down, share them. That’s what I have found. For me, like I said, in the beginning of the week on Sundays, I write down my goals for the upcoming week, and they’re very small. I want to do three strength training sessions. I’m doing this course, so I want to spend two sessions in this [00:27:00] course to 25 minute sessions on this course.

[00:27:03] I’m not overshooting. And I even go to the extent where I plan out my week Monday, Tuesday, I write the days of the week out and then I look at my calendar and say, okay, I’ve got this going on after school. So I’m not going to have much time here, but I think I will have 15 minutes to spend on this.

[00:27:20] I plan where I’m going to put my goals in. Monday, I’m going to do my strength training and Thursday and Saturday, I’m going to do my strength training. I write it into my little in my journal. And then in the every morning, I look, what do I have planned for today? Okay, now, is there anything else I need to do on top of that?

[00:27:38] Do I need to call my mom, for example, write that in, I just write these things down. And then in my text messages to my accountability partner at night, this is what I did, or unfortunately, sometimes this is what I didn’t do. And then that helps me stay on track. So writing things down, what I have read is, I’ve done this where I put little [00:28:00] post its on my mirror in my bathroom mirror, right?

[00:28:03] And, but what I have read and what I have found true for myself is that after a while, I overlook those same post its. The post its have been up there for so long that I have started to overlook them, and I just gloss over them. It’s become part of the mirror. The act of writing them down every single day makes them stick more, makes them more effective.

[00:28:26] That’s what I’ve started to do that, tell somebody, share them. There was one point when I was like, I felt like my strength training was falling, was lax. I was getting lax in my strength training. So on social media, on Instagram, I wrote out in my journal, I would write out my strength training plans.

[00:28:44] This is exactly what I’m going to do. Take a picture of that. That was my social media post for the day. Not very social, but whatever, it worked for me. I figured if I showed everybody, then I would be more accountable for it. And it worked. I don’t do that anymore [00:29:00] because I feel like it’s become more of a habit.

[00:29:02] Definitely sharing your goals with other people, but being like, we always say the smart goals, being very specific. If your goal is let’s build 5 percent muscle mass, right? Then break it down. How many times do you need to get in the gym?

[00:29:17] Three days a week, you’re going to get in the gym. What does that look like? Okay. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Okay. So Monday, you’re going to do upper body. Wednesday, you’re going to do lower body. Friday, you’re going to do full body. That’s what you’re going to do. Boom. And so you just need to be very specific .

[00:29:30] And then you pull in people. Hey, friend, I’m doing this. You win. Let’s go. Come on. And then you pull in people and then, okay, where are you at? I’m on my way to the gym. You in? Are you on your way? Let’s go. It’s just, yeah finding like minded people, writing your goals down, finding like minded people and holding them accountable, having them hold you accountable.

[00:29:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah great tips. I love the point that you made about the post it notes do just [00:30:00] become like this thing that you don’t even see anymore. And the idea that you’re writing it down, at least that’s a start and perhaps you take the post it note and move it to a different place every day. And so then you’re rereading it because now it’s not just part of the scenery, but the idea of writing it down every single day.

[00:30:20] That physical, movement links it more, right? There’s been study after study about how important it is to write the things and it just activates the brain differently. And yeah, that’s a great tip. And of course, again, going back to sharing the goal that you have with other people so that they can ask you.

[00:30:44] Hey, did you do that thing? Or, I better do this thing because I said I was going to do this thing. Yeah. Love it. It is for sure. I want to ask you about the [00:31:00] idea of. When we’re struggling with maintaining this long term, because this isn’t something, because we often do this we’ll start something and just, okay I can’t keep this up.

[00:31:17] So how do we set this up so that it’s something that we can continue to do for the long term? 

[00:31:24] Melissa Yamashita: Yeah. I always have my clients, we focus on a couple of things. So the main focus if we’re talking about building muscle for longevity, main focus is protein intake and strength training.

[00:31:38] So protein intake, figure out how much protein you want to intake in a day and start off with a heavy, high protein breakfast. That’s your, that’s one thing that you need to work on. So high protein breakfast, everything else will, whatever. Don’t worry about how much carbs, how many fats, how much, what your other meals like, just start off with your high protein breakfast.

[00:31:57] Okay, that’s number one. Number two, get [00:32:00] some strength training in, at least, I’d love to say three days a week, three days a week, 30 minutes a day would be optimal. Okay? Is that going to be in your room? Is that going to be, out in the park? Is that going to be in the gym?

[00:32:12] It doesn’t matter where it is. It needs to be challenging. Okay. So if you’re doing body weight, it’s going to be more repetitions. If you’re in the gym and you have weights, then it’s going to be less repetitions. So you just start small. Those two things. that’s what I would suggest.

[00:32:27] Start small when you have those, when you are consistently doing those, after a month, maybe a couple of months for some people, then you add another thing. Then you add in extra water, you add in extra steps during the day, things like that. But you need to start off with one or two habits and then you build.

[00:32:48] But I would say for longevity, which is what I believe we’re talking about here, strength training and protein intake. Yeah. Protein used to be thought of as [00:33:00] Oh, all those beefy bodybuilders in the gym, if they’re big tubs of whey protein Oh my gosh, I don’t want to be that person.

[00:33:08] But protein is tied to all of our metabolic and hormonal functions. It’s tied to everything. As we’re sleeping, we’re breaking down muscle. So as soon as we get up, our first meal of the day should be very high protein. So in order to stop that breakdown and start building up, especially if you’re an athlete, and you’re breaking down aminos, proteins in your muscles in your body.

[00:33:31] You need to support them. You need to break that up. Strength training to strength training, building muscle on your body helps with all of your metabolic functions. It helps control your glucose levels, so it can help prevent diabetes, all sorts of things. Bone health, joint health, all of that stuff are tied to muscle.

[00:33:52] So those two things, and if you don’t have them together, then you’re missing a huge part of the equation. If you’re working your butt [00:34:00] off in the gym, but you’re not supporting it with proper protein intake, you’re leaving so much on the table and vice versa. You can be eating all the protein, but if you’re not actually using it to build active muscle, there has been a study where they up the protein in women. They just up the protein. They didn’t change anything else. They didn’t add. Resistant training or anything. And those women still had more muscle than a group of women in which they didn’t have adequate protein intake.

[00:34:27] So adequate protein intake, I would say would be the first and foremost thing to do. Yeah. Okay. And it’s not, it can be plant protein or animal protein. Yeah. 

[00:34:37] Desiree Stanley: Good to know. Because it’s, yeah, I think that there’s so much information out and sometimes it can be extremely confusing about what you need to do and how you need to do it.

[00:34:48] And so it’s good to know that just by having a good, solid high protein breakfast. Yeah. That’s going to start your day and then get your exercise in. If you [00:35:00] can ideally, 30 minutes a day, but I love how you said, start small and build on that as you can, as you, getting into the routine of it.

[00:35:11] Excellent points. Yeah. And then thank you for sharing about the plant protein because. Not everybody eats animals animal protein and so it’s just as good for you. 

[00:35:24] Melissa Yamashita: Oh yeah. Yeah. You have to be intentional and you have to be a little bit more intentional if you’re doing plant protein, but it can totally work.

[00:35:30] There’s a ton of vegan bodybuilders. There’s a ton of vegan athletes who do very well, perform very well on a vegan diet. And you have to make sure it’s right for your body. Like every body is different, not to be cliche, but literally everybody is different. I can’t train one client the same way that I train another client.

[00:35:49] And I have found that my, like the story I shared with you earlier, my body changes and evolves as I go through patterns, age and lifestyles and things like that. But this all [00:36:00] takes intention, right? Like you have to start with the right intention or else nothing’s going to happen.

[00:36:06] Nothing’s going to get done. It’s a very intentional, but very beneficial. Like a little bit of intention will take you a long way. So as long as you’re taking the right steps 

[00:36:17] Desiree Stanley: yeah, definitely. So you did share some success with a particular client, but is there anything else that you want to share?

[00:36:26] Like any other clients that, maybe made a change that they didn’t think that they could do that found super inspirational and. They do as well. 

[00:36:36] Melissa Yamashita: My biggest successes with clients have been in habits like sustainable habits that they’ve gone away and said, wow, now I know why I need to do X, Y, and Z and I’m able to act on X, Y, and Z.

[00:36:50] And I feel like I can do that for the rest of my life. Right. Or I feel like if I get off track, I know where to go back. So it’s just that education. I think that has been very [00:37:00] helpful. I have a client right now who is a endurance runner and she had an injury a couple of years back and so she was recovering from that and she, gained more weight than she wanted to and all this stuff.

[00:37:12] We’re working on losing weight. We’re working on strength training. We’re working on good nutrition. And. The numbers on the scale haven’t gone down like as much and sometimes Oh, are you okay with this? And she’s Oh, her performance though, she feels much better in her run.

[00:37:28] She’s able to power up the uphills. There was a friend of hers who hadn’t seen her for a couple of months. And she’s Oh my gosh, her composition has changed. So that’s huge. I try to get my clients off of this Oh, the number and the scale is in budging. That’s because you have muscle now, 

[00:37:44] instead of, your fat cells have shrunk and your muscle cells have gotten bigger. That’s Awesome. That’s what we want. I have another client who never wanted, weight loss as her goal. And when I first started, when we first started working together, she ate like a five year old [00:38:00] and just she didn’t eat vegetables. She just didn’t know. She hadn’t been exposed to a lot of diverse variety, diverse eating. And so we started working very slowly, started working and incorporating. And then, I’d begin that conversation like, okay, we need to talk about vegetables. Okay. And and she was willing, she was a very willing.

[00:38:21] client to taking those steps. Now this woman is doing orange theory fitness twice on Wednesdays. She’s running. She’s Oh yeah, I got my vegetables. She’s eating vegetables and incorporating things in just left and right. She is hitting her steps goal.

[00:38:37] She’s hitting her water goal. She used to be a soda fiend. And now she’s Oh, I haven’t had a soda in weeks and it’s all coming from her. This is all led by her. It wasn’t like Melissa saying, you got to do this, and this. And it was a slower process, I’m like, Hey, share a non scale victory with me.

[00:38:56] And she said, she’s going to be in a wedding soon. She’s the dress [00:39:00] fit me like a glove. I don’t need to wear shape wear. And I feel confident. I’m like, hell yeah, that’s what we do this for. To feel confident in our bodies, right?

[00:39:08] To get back that confidence. That’s what we do it for. So yeah, and to the extent that she’s okay, I think I got this, unfortunately for me, she’s I don’t know if I’m going to be needing your services anymore, but I’m like, that’s what I’m here for, I’m not supposed to be your lifelong chain, whatever.

[00:39:25] I’m just, let’s get you started. Let’s go instill these habits. And then boom, you’re on your own and you’ve got this. It’s really, that’s the really cool part of this Desiree, like those non scale victories and seeing women just get strong and, just take over or take back, I should say, take back really.

[00:39:45] Yeah, 

[00:39:46] Desiree Stanley: That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing those with us, Melissa. Yeah. The point about the non scale victory, so often we’re just so concerned about what the scale says and forgetting that. Muscle [00:40:00] weighs more than fat and your body composition is changing. And that is really what’s more important to remember that you are becoming stronger.

[00:40:11] You are becoming more fit and you’re looking healthier and feeling stronger, right? Those 

[00:40:17] Melissa Yamashita: are far more energy. You sleep better, you think better. You’re not having that slump in the middle in the afternoon. Skin is clearer and, yeah, it’s really cool. 

[00:40:29] Desiree Stanley: And the point that you made about intention and that it has to be, your intention to make these changes, to, add in the fitness, the strength, change your, whatever it may be, you’re eating your, if you’re a soda drinker, like you suggested that one client was.

[00:40:48] It has to be your intention to make these changes. And that’s such, such a great point is that when the decision is yours and truly are invested in making this happen, that’s [00:41:00] when you’re going to see those changes. 

[00:41:02] Melissa Yamashita: Yeah, exactly. And that’s why you pay a coach, right? You pay a coach because you’re invested in this.

[00:41:09] It is an investment, a true investment in your health and you’re going to see the benefits if you keep doing, taking these steps, you’re going to see the benefits of it. So yeah. Awesome. You’re ready. 

[00:41:21] Desiree Stanley: Before we close out, I want to ask, my guests, I always do. I’d love to know what books that you’ve read or are reading that you have found beneficial.

[00:41:31] And we mentioned atomic habits earlier. Was there any others that you’d like to suggest? 

[00:41:37] Melissa Yamashita: So I have a pile here, but I’m not gonna hold them up because you can’t see ’em very well. But one book that I and my husband totally agreed with this on, is a book called essentialism by Greg McKoon, the Discipline Pursuit of Less.

[00:41:51] Have you heard about this book? No. Okay. So Essentialism is exactly what it, what is essential in your life. And I’m all [00:42:00] about this. We say we have priorities, and priority is supposed to be one. There’s only supposed to be one, maybe two priorities. People have a long list of priorities, like a laundry list of priorities.

[00:42:10] No. What are your two priorities? Because if it’s down here, then that’s not really a priority, right? What is essential in your life? How do you pare down all that other noise in there in order to hit what is essential in your priority? Excellent book, Essentialism, The Discipline Pursuit of Less. Another book that I just finished reading, is a book called Forever Strong by Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. And she has an amazing podcast, she gets some great guests on there. And, This is Forever Strong, A New Science Based Strategy For Aging Well, and everything that I say about muscle centric movement is from this book, her mantra theme, whatever you want to call it is, as a society, we are not Overweight.

[00:42:59] We [00:43:00] are under muscled, building muscle her ideas is like muscle centric. Everything is muscle centric nutrition exercise plan, everything muscle centric. And then. I’ll keep this brief and then a kind of book to round things out is a book called Built to Move by Kelly and Juliet Sterrett.

[00:43:22] Ten essential habits to help you move freely and live fully. So it has ten habits and they range from breathing, like a breath test, to the Sitting on the floor, standing up test it goes from movement to nutrition to breathing. And so it has all these 10 what tests that they say that if you can pass these tests, then you are going to live a long, healthy.

[00:43:50] Life, so the 800 grams of fruits and vegetables. If you’re eating 800 grams of fruits and vegetables on a daily basis, then you’re going to, fight off a lot of cancers, a lot of heart [00:44:00] diseases, etc. If you’re able to sit down on the floor, cross legged and stand up, you have a great range of mobility, you’re going to, XYZ.

[00:44:09] Some of them are hard breathing test, hold your breath for, however long, and that’s just good markers to see where you’re at. And then they have exercises to show you if you’re down here, how are we going to get you up here and practical movements and exercises that you could do.

[00:44:23] So that’s my rounded out to read. 

[00:44:26] Desiree Stanley: Some great suggestions there. So thank you for sharing those with us. I’ll include that information in the show notes, of course. And then you mentioned that there’s a podcast also. So would you tell us that 1 again? And if there’s any others you’d like to share.

[00:44:41] Melissa Yamashita: Yeah the doctor’s name is Dr. Gabrielle Lyon she has a great podcast. And she has, because she’s so respected in the medical field and in the what the nutrition slash aging. kind of field. I think she’s a doctor of geriatrics, something like that.

[00:44:58] Then she has a lot of [00:45:00] like minded guests on. So really cool conversations about stuff. Another podcast that I listen to pretty regularly is called Optimize Me. I believe that’s the name of it. And it’s a woman named E.C. Synkowski. She was on the board with the CrossFit Games.

[00:45:17] She is also a doctor of nutrition and she just, very concise explanations in 30 minutes. She’ll go down and talk about different diet fads or she’ll talk about, the benefits of strength training or, how ketogenic ketones play in your body. Things like that. She just. Breaks things down in such an easy to understand way that makes it very accessible to everybody. 

[00:45:40] There’s ton of knowledge out there, and I tend to listen to the same people as they are guests on because they’re just reiterating and verifying and validating, the same message and I just love that message. So yeah. 

[00:45:54] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. Thank you for sharing those with us.

[00:45:57] Lastly, Melissa, if people have [00:46:00] questions, they want to ask you, pick your brain, learn a little bit more about, how they can reach these goals that they’re setting for themselves. How would they be able to get ahold of you? 

[00:46:11] Melissa Yamashita: My website is My Nutrition My Way. It’s a little bit of a play.

[00:46:15] The my is a play on my initials. mynutritionmyway.Com. I am on Instagram, mynutritionmyway I also have a Facebook page. I’m not a super huge presence on social media. I have a lot of things to say, but as far as pictures, I’m not the best at it.

[00:46:34] I’m better at conversation. So reach out to me. You can find my email on mynutritionmyway.Com. I, you’ll post it in the show notes. So anything, I’d be glad to have conversations with you. I always offer in a free initial zoom consultation in person consultation. If you live in the Morgan Hill , South County of Bay area.

[00:46:54] California telephone conversation, whatever a free initial, conversation we [00:47:00] can talk about how I can help you reach your goals and help to you optimize your nutrition because that’s what I’m all about. I’m figuring out for myself and I really want to share my knowledge and experience with everybody.

[00:47:12] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Thank you so much again, Melissa, for your time and sharing it with us and the knowledge that you’ve just, imparted to all of us. I love it so much. So thank you again for being on the show. 

[00:47:23] Melissa Yamashita: You’re very welcome. You’re very welcome. Thanks for inviting me back. I feel so honored to be a returned guest here.

[00:47:32] Desiree Stanley: I love it. Okay. Thanks, Melissa. We’ll talk more soon. 

[00:47:35] Melissa Yamashita: Okay.

[00:47:35] Desiree Stanley: Thank you dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:47:55] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay [00:48:00] curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Dalene Higgins Podcast_02_14_2024 

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley and with me today again is Dalene Higgins. And I’m so honored to have you back on the show. Dalene is a financial wizard. She’s a financial planner. She helps Gen Xers specifically with budgeting and planning for their future. 

[00:00:46] And so we’re going to be talking about a little bit of that and some other really great financial advice. And so I’m looking forward to our conversation. Welcome again, Darlene. 

[00:00:56] Dalene Higgins: Yes, Desiree, I’m glad to be back. Glad you asked. Glad I can [00:01:00] cover this topic. 

[00:01:00] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Let’s start by having you share with us how you decided to found Elevate Finances, and what was it that inspired you and led up to that? 

[00:01:14] Dalene Higgins: I had just reached my financial dream, my financial vision of retiring at the age of 50. And as I was approaching that retirement, I knew I needed something to do. 

[00:01:25] So I looked at all the options, what could I do? What did I wanna do, all of those things that would fit in with my new phase of life, of retirement. And I thought, why not share this excitement, this feeling of you can achieve whatever dream you set out and just share that. And then, yes, dialed into Gen Xers as I feel like, we still have time, we can still reach out, we can still make it. 

[00:01:49] And so I found financial coaching in the industry and yep, started down that path. I’ve been doing it almost two years now and it’s been a lot of fun. I [00:02:00] love educating people. I am a numbers nerd. So what I did for 15 years before I retired with cops who were not so number savvy and we worked together, but we had a great time. 

[00:02:10] And yeah, just transferring that knowledge to the personal finance space and I’ve really enjoyed it. 

[00:02:16] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Thank you for sharing that background with us to the listeners who may have not heard you on the previous episode, but today we’re going to be focusing a little bit more specifically in terms of how individuals can craft and create their financial vision for the future say that fast three times. But this is really important. I think because it’s like, how do you achieve this goal? If you don’t have an idea of where you want to be, right? So why don’t you talk us through that a little bit? 

[00:02:50] Dalene Higgins: Yes. As I reflected back, I realized that really my feet were grounded because of my future vision, because that’s what I had set out to do. 

[00:02:58] Now, not everybody [00:03:00] will have that same goal, and that’s fine. That’s not what I’m talking about. We just want to create a future of whatever it is we want to be. And money, serves 99 percent of our lives. Think about areas where it doesn’t serve and it’s probably, next to nothing. 

[00:03:13] But like recently I had a client who her goal is a hundred doors by the time she’s 50, she has six years to do that. But yeah, it’s very clear in our mind as to why and what she needs to do. And the reason why she came to work with me, she’s I have got to get going on my dreams so that I can reach it. 

[00:03:31] Sometimes we don’t dream enough anymore. I think as children, there are no boundaries. There are no barriers. We’ve never been told, right? I think we start out when they’re a certain age, but we’re never told Oh, you’re just dreaming. Oh, you can’t do that. And then that gets in our head and we want to start putting those barriers on ourselves. 

[00:03:49] So I encourage my clients to lose those barriers and to just dream. And ignore that idea of, as you’re thinking of dreaming I want to do this. [00:04:00] And then that little imposter syndrome is going to come in and say, do you really think you could do that? And tell that person yes, and just put it aside and go for what you really want because once you recognize what you truly desire, what’s in your heart, what’s in your mind, and tie those two together, finances almost become just a second nature as just a second nature. 

[00:04:20] Okay. Creating the path and creating the get there because you can see so clearly where you want to go. So explore that, whatever it is you want. Some people it is to have real estate. Some people it is to retire early, like myself. Others may want to invest in, businesses or restaurants or any of those things or who knows? 

[00:04:41] Travel the world while they’re working. Whatever it is, create that. Create yours. And the other thing I realized when I retired is there’s a lot of social norms. I was always told, oh, are you going to travel now that you’re retired? No, I just, it’s not in me. It’s not something I desire. [00:05:00] So don’t let those, society norms hold you back either. 

[00:05:04] Do something that you truly desire. And then just say, just I just claimed to mine. I was like, I’m going to do this. And there’s something to be said, whether you say it out loud or say it with your partner or whatever, you’re like, we’re going to do this and we’re going to do this and achieve it whenever we want. 

[00:05:20] I told my client, I, she goes, I know it’s crazy. I only have six years. And I said, don’t diminish that. Because what if it’s 52? It’s not 50, but it’s 52. That is still an accomplishment. So I think that’s so important to let your mind free flow, let your mind go, have fun with it. Really, what would you do? 

[00:05:41] No holds bar. And that’s what I like to get people thinking about. 

[00:05:46] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. I love the point that you made about, as children, we are so often told you can do whatever you want. You can be whatever you want. And then there does come that point where it’s suddenly it has to [00:06:00] be reality. 

[00:06:00] Like you have, you’re probably not going to be an astronaut or, whatever. And, so I think we then do put those limiting beliefs on ourself, right? I was told that I probably wouldn’t be able to do that because I have to do something that’s, realistic or whatever. 

[00:06:14] So I think remembering that there was a point in our lives when anything was possible and harnessing that. That idea that anything is still possible. And I love that each person has to remember that their goal is their goal. It doesn’t have to fit, like you said, into whatever, society says or what’s the typical thing a retired person does or, whatever that’s a great reminder as well. 

[00:06:43] It is personal. to you. And you’ve got to make that decision for yourself. So I love that. What are maybe some specific steps that people can do as they’re trying to craft this vision? Is there something that you can recommend?[00:07:00] 

[00:07:00] Dalene Higgins: Yeah, just sit down, let it flow, start putting the pieces together. Once you know what it is you want to accomplish, or maybe you have a few ideas. If you’re sitting with, I’d really like to do this, but I’d really like to do this, let it simmer with it. See what feels best. See what fills your drive, your desire. Because that’s what creates the motivation with money. 

[00:07:22] That’s what creates the motivation to change if you need to change. Is recognizing that I really want that. I really see myself doing that. So if it’s something you can see yourself doing, something that really is like your heart burns for it, then that’s the one you’re going to choose. Now if there’s more than one, So when I claimed mine, I also had more like a short term. It was within, I was probably within about five years. We were going to buy a recreation property, all the toys to go with it. So we could enjoy, this vacationing kind of with our daughter while she was here and not have to travel so far, we were doing all the campgrounds, which is like going to another [00:08:00] neighborhood and we like, we want to do something different. 

[00:08:02] And so that was a lot of money. It wasn’t like it was just, a small, like even a small vacation, but yet. We work towards that one as well as our long term one. So maybe you have visions like that. If you’re like I can’t sit on just one. Maybe you have a shorter term one and then you can feed both of them. 

[00:08:18] I did that. I was able to feed into the both of them. The other one was more immediate I had to make sure that one was quicker to happen, but not neglect that future vision either. It’s like being able to serve both of them. 

[00:08:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, great point about maybe staggering them if it’s necessary. 

[00:08:36] One may be that short-term goal that’s you wanna achieve quicker than something that’s, a little bit bigger and how it’s more important to give a little bit more to that closer goal ’cause you’ve got more time to reach that bigger goal. 

[00:08:50] Dalene Higgins: Yeah. Yep. And once you achieve your short term goal, everything will be able to go to that long term goal. 

[00:08:55] And that’s almost a quick win. Maybe five years is not a quick one, but it’s a quick win to [00:09:00] your long term goal as well. So that hopefully can help, listeners as well. 

[00:09:04] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And so when we’re recording this in, when it will air, it’s going to be the beginning of 2024. And as a new year, most people are setting those new year’s goals, or resolutions to lose weight, save money, whatever the case may be. And so I think this is a great time to talk about strategies that the listeners can use to set those goals and maybe figure out how they can begin budgeting and planning for those. So what are maybe some suggestions that, if people are looking at their finances right now what can they begin doing? 

[00:09:41] Dalene Higgins: Yes. So definitely looking at past the past year, without any shame or any guilt, that’s not what we want to do. We want to just see where is our money going? What have we been doing with it? What worked well? What did we enjoy? Because those are the things we want to continue in 2024. We don’t need to [00:10:00] start over again. 

[00:10:01] And maybe you’re somebody that’s been hiding from your finances for a while, and that’s okay. That’s okay. That’s a very common, but, reflect back, look, see where your money’s going, and then just start with that today. We are not going to go, ugh, we got to cut back on, all of these things so that we can Fit into this mold. 

[00:10:19] There’s no mold to fit into. That is yours to create and yours to define. And so say you wanted to save for a family vacation this summer. You’ve got plenty of time right now, beginning of 2024. Determine number one, where are you going and what anticipated cost is. And then can you find that money in your budget? 

[00:10:39] And the way to do that is if you’re like I don’t have any money left over is start looking at the trade offs. What are you willing to pause? And if that’s the other thing is we don’t always have to give up anything. But if we’re wanting to go on vacation this summer and not stress about it, what if we just pause some of these other things and say, okay, we’re going to pause these until after vacation and then [00:11:00] just start, sticking that away, creating that vacation fund 1st comes or whenever you’re going to take it, you’re ready. 

[00:11:08] And then, Okay. Those things you paused, guess what? You get to do them again. And so it’s like recognizing that give and that take will I think help you propel through budgeting. Budgeting gets a bad rap, there’s those immediate emotions of, restrictive and they’re going to make me give up stuff and I have to do this. 

[00:11:25] So I always like to take clients through the very first session. I ask them, what’s your favorite three expenses that bring you joy? That you could not live without. And then what are your bottom three expenses? You’re okay if they went away. And right then and there you’re immediately looking at your expenses in a different way instead of what is good and what is bad. 

[00:11:45] What brings you joy and what is eh, I could get rid of that, and just those loose feelings of yeah, it would be okay. We could be, and so those are the ones you could pause if you asked yourself those two questions at this moment as you’re heading into the [00:12:00] 2024. Could you pause those three? 

[00:12:02] Do you even need those three? I had a client. So we do a exercise between session one and session two there. You have to write out their bills in due date order. And so she jumps on session two with me. She goes, ah, I canceled four of them. I don’t need them anymore. And so sometimes just. doing some of these little awareness things and writing them down, looking at them differently, asking yourself different questions, you can get out of your head instead of, I got to give up something. 

[00:12:27] And then you’re just so blinded and it’s just feels so forced, free yourself up and go what brings me joy? What do I enjoy spending my money on? If you have a partner or spouse, right? Kids, you’re going to want to reflect with them as well. And why not a great time if you’re going to go on vacation this summer? 

[00:12:44] Maybe it’s a vacation your kids have been dying to go on and you teach them that, okay, we want to go do this vacation that you’ve been asking for the last two, three, four years. However, as long as it’s, it’s been, but we’re going to have to pause these two things. Are you okay with that? I think we could do it together.[00:13:00] 

[00:13:00] And even if you’re pausing, say it’s an entertainment of some sort that’s paid, have them help you decide, so what are we going to do instead of these things that we normally do? And really start teaching them about what they value and what they see. And that’s a great segue into teaching them about money without that formal sit down. 

[00:13:18] This is how you do it. This is why you do it. So I think creating conversations around money is so important in any relationship. 

[00:13:26] Desiree Stanley: Oh, my gosh, Dalene. Thank you so much for that. So many great points in there. Excellent stuff. I love, first of all, I want to say just because it is a new year. Yes, we can do all these things, but it doesn’t have to be January 1st. 

[00:13:40] These kinds of things can be done at any point of the year. And sitting down and looking at these things and choosing, do I need to spend my money here or would I rather save that money and use it for this, fabulous vacation that we all want to go on and then getting the kids involved at excellent. And what a way to teach them [00:14:00] what’s important to them and learn the value of money and how we can choose to spend our money in a way that serves us. 

[00:14:10] Dalene Higgins: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:14:12] Desiree Stanley: You touched on, budgeting and how it can feel restrictive. So it also can feel very daunting and people, I think put it off because they’re like afraid to do it. 

[00:14:23] So what are maybe some tips or tools that you can also share about how you make that budgeting a little bit more manageable? 

[00:14:32] Dalene Higgins: Yeah, so some people are numbers people like myself, right? And so we get into the nitty gritty. It doesn’t overwhelm us. Now, not everybody is like that. So if you’re the person that’s like less is better, then what I suggest is immediately you’re going to go to three categories. 

[00:14:46] You’re going to have your bills that have a due date. They’re due every single month. So right there you have one category. Then you have your spending between paydays. Where you’re like, okay, groceries, fuel, something, if you’ve got [00:15:00] boys or, your husband who gets a haircut every two weeks or whatever, that’s going to throw in there. 

[00:15:04] Dog food, if that’s an often buy, and you’re going to throw that in that account. And then you’re going to have your Everything else. So you only have to figure out those two and then whatever’s left over from your income ends up being what I call sinking funds and saving buckets. These are for those school fees, your Christmases, your birthdays, those types of things. 

[00:15:24] You start organizing it better in that bucket. third category. That’s all you need to, keep your eyes on bills, make sure they get paid, every single month and then you’re spending and you know what you’re spending on groceries and gas and trying to stay within that. There’s fluctuations for sure. 

[00:15:40] So like I said, if you want to look back at last year, you can get an average. However, if those numbers overwhelm you just go, Ah, it’s usually about this much and go from there because a budget is a working document. It changes. It’s going to flow and the other thing is with the daunting is sometimes everybody thinks I [00:16:00] have to create a budget every single month. 

[00:16:03] The goal is to take these three numbers and just massage them. Just make them fit better to what is actually happening. If you didn’t do that review for the last 12 months, which even then you’re going to have changes. Different things happen, and just realize, okay, I have these three numbers. 

[00:16:20] It’s just got to ebb and flow. Give and take, and how does this work, and how do I know to, keep moving forward. Hopefully that kind of helps them realize that they don’t need to do 20 categories, that sometimes they see elsewhere as, I’ve got a track my pet food and my groceries and, my clothing and my gifts and all, you can summarize them together in three good categories and support yourself that way. 

[00:16:44] Desiree Stanley: Excellent advice there. I think you’re right. People and myself included have had, an Excel sheet and it’s got everything listed on there and that’s just so time consuming. And so I love this idea of just having three big categories, [00:17:00] two that are more specific and then the third that Kind of your catchall and really that makes it so much easier to manage, I think. 

[00:17:08] And I could see how I would be more consistent in working something like that than one that’s as detailed as I was doing in the past. And there was the point that you made in there about these numbers are not. Set in stone, right? All of these things. I love how you said they’re, they’re malleable. 

[00:17:27] You’re massaging them because they do fluctuate. We’re not spending the same on groceries every time. We’re not spending the same on gasoline for our cars or, our electric and gas bills are going to fluctuate, right? So these numbers aren’t going to be static. And so we just need to have some working knowledge of what they’re approximately are right. 

[00:17:47] Dalene Higgins: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And some people get so, ah, this wasn’t exact and then that’s when they want to give up. And from that frustration, it’s no, just go. All right. What does that mean? What is it? Do I [00:18:00] need to do to capture that better, to see that? Or is it just a one time? 

[00:18:04] And it’s not a big deal. So recognizing or the other thing women will do, or I guess men could as well, is we put it on us. How come I didn’t have that right? How come I didn’t know that? And immediately, like that shame and that, that guilt is just weighing down and then you don’t even want to deal with it. 

[00:18:20] So get out of those feelings when something like that happens and just go, okay, what am I going to do? How am I going to handle this for next time? Because guess what? There will be a next time. 

[00:18:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s true. So I want to talk now about maybe some steps that the listeners can take, because I think, this financial, like reviewing this information gives you a clarity, right? 

[00:18:45] So what are some steps that the listeners can take that they can identify maybe areas of improvement. How can they work toward their, that larger goal, whatever it is that they dreamed of[00:19:00] that they want to achieve. 

[00:19:01] Dalene Higgins: Yeah. Okay. Let’s touch on a couple of different ways. So as you’re heading into reviewing your finances for now and looking at it if you’re, somebody that doesn’t like a lot of detail, but you’re like, I really wonder what’s going on in. 

[00:19:14] What are those categories that pop up for you? What are the things you’re like, I wonder how much I spend on X, or do we really spend that much money on, and again, enter X. So really get curious about your own finances without having to do a complete review. And if there’s an area you’re like, I know we’re spending a lot here and I just don’t want to anymore, go review it. 

[00:19:35] Just that area and get yourself moving forward. But then as you’re also thinking about your vision and your dream, as you look at your expenses do they serve that purpose? Number one, do they serve you today to keep you going, right? And you could say yes to everything, but does it also detract from the future? 

[00:19:55] Or is this something that You could do that give and take away again. [00:20:00] But as you have that vision, taking those steps, what are those milestones that you need to get there? My client with a hundred doors, she still has yet to buy her own home. That is obviously step one for her, to get qualified, to find a home, to make the purchase, and then You know, go from there. 

[00:20:18] Then our next one is to amass one million in assets of homes. So she’s thinking that will be about five. And so that’s her next step. And then for her, who is somebody that loves checklist, I said, the make the steps, she’s probably going to have 50 steps where somebody else would be okay with. 

[00:20:35] I’m just going to amass for more homes. And so recognizing that these little steps, these little achievements are what is going to boost us for the future. To continually reach forward to that end goal. As I was saving and building, I was also, because I did have a pension, I was getting closer in years. 

[00:20:53] But when I took that 40 percent cut in pay, I had to be ready. I had to be able to, take that 40 [00:21:00] percent out of what I was living on and live on the rest of it. And really massaging that down to what my essential goal was, but knowing, okay, this month or this, quarter, I’m going to work on, cutting back on groceries and how can I be better about it or meal planning or whatever it is, really getting focused on one area at a time. 

[00:21:18] That’s the, another thing I really like to advise people pick one area, learn about it, apply it, get good at it. And then choose another area. If you spread yourself too thin, you’re not going to see that momentum and see that achievement and feel that achievement so that you can keep that motivation. 

[00:21:37] Cause I know that’s the biggest thing, consistency and motivation with finances, because it is such a long journey. It is something that’s endless in a sense. For me, my budget focused journey is what I like to call it was 15 years. Fifteen years is a long time. It’s not over for me. I’ve reached that dream. 

[00:21:54] I still have other things I need to fulfill and do as well. And so just remembering [00:22:00] that as you go and just looking at just the next step, even though you might’ve laid out, three steps or 12 steps, whatever feels good to you. Like just keep your eye on what you’re doing and what that next step is. 

[00:22:12] Don’t get too far ahead of yourself. 

[00:22:15] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, excellent point there for sure. I think that anytime we try to do too much at once, we all get overwhelmed, right? And so looking at just one category at a time and getting a handle on it is such a great way to ultimately achieve the overall, review and change in all of the areas, right? 

[00:22:36] But you can only do it one step at a time. Such a great point. And I love that because we do just allow these things to become overwhelming feeling when you’re trying to look at the whole big picture, you’re trying to do too much at once. And so one step at a time gets you there, right? 

[00:22:55] Dalene Higgins: Exactly. Exactly. 

[00:22:56] Desiree Stanley: Let’s talk now about how, [00:23:00] as we’re crafting this, future financial goal or plan maybe how they can feel like they’re still enjoying the money that they have. They’re still, secure. It’s not that they’re taking away from their everyday living. 

[00:23:18] Dalene Higgins: Yeah. Okay. Make sure you can pay all your bills, right? That’s how you can be secure. Do you have enough money? Are you paying them on time? Maybe even get them on automatic pay. Right there, that takes away a lot of decisions. A lot of, rethinking every time you go to pay something online. Really, I have to pay this much. 

[00:23:37] Oh my gosh. And it’s, it really can be fatiguing on us. And then, I love to talk about balancing now and the future. And that was where my short term goal and my long term goal really helped out. But another tidbit is to make sure your budget has an element of fun. So what fits in your budget that supports you and gets [00:24:00] you excited and that you enjoy spending money on? 

[00:24:03] That you can give yourself an amount. And just, enjoy that and realize that whether it’s one or two, it’s up to you. You know your budget best. But for myself, I spend money on books because I’m a reader. I’m an avid fiction reader. That’s where all my time goes to, so that’s where a lot of my money goes to. 

[00:24:21] But I have a reserved amount. I give myself every single month. Or, yes, I would overspend, and so it’s good to curb that. It’s good to not just go nonchalant because I thoroughly love it because, number one, I don’t need to buy a hundred books in a month because I cannot read a hundred books in a month, so it’s like recognizing reality as well. So whatever it is that brings you the most joy. I’d love to share about a client who came to me with debt equal to what he made in a year. It was his third time in this situation. His dad was like, something is wrong. You’ve got to figure it out, which we did. But as we were getting there and I was like, [00:25:00] okay, you really have to scale back. 

[00:25:01] And no, I do not do this with all of my clients. His situation was different, but as we were doing that, we’re like, I’m like, you can cover your basics. Here’s those items, but we do want to include one thing for fun. What of the things that you joy do you want to keep in your budget? And he chose his Apple music, which is only 10 a month. 

[00:25:21] It was good and it fit, but it provided him mental health, physical fitness, it just fun time with kids. He had three kids. And so recognizing that served him. In a lot of areas of his life, even though we were scaling back, you have to have that element in your budget. You work hard every day, whether you go to work or you work for yourself, you work hard and yes, you do deserve a benefit, but you deserve a defined amount. 

[00:25:48] You can’t just overspend because then that will get you in a Horrible situation. And then what do you do? I like to, I like to look at a couple different ways. What do you have a short term goal? You can fill that [00:26:00] and driving that with your long term. Or is there just that one thing for fun? 

[00:26:04] Fun. This is what we do. I know some families, they just go on a vacation every single year. That’s their thing for fun. Then that’s what you do. And that’s what you budget for. Then you can take from the other places, hopefully because you prioritized again, like I said, top three, bottom three. 

[00:26:20] There’s a whole bunch of others in between. But you could prioritize those as well, and you could start cutting off at the bottom, and you probably would not care if those things were gone, if you honestly 

[00:26:31] think about it. 

[00:26:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, fantastic advice. I love that for sure. And I think that often people do spend to their limit of their income and, in the society that we have, unfortunately, it’s encouraged by advertisers to buy the next thing and people can often find themselves in large debt. 

[00:26:54] And so remembering that we don’t need it all. We can’t possibly have it all [00:27:00] anyway is a great reminder. Like you pointed out, it is so important to remember that there is room for fun. You’ve got to have something in your budget that allows you to use the money that you are working hard for. For fun, whatever it is for you. And that’s such a great reminder. So thank you for sharing that with us again, and to kind of change gears a little bit, I want to have you share with us the podcast that you have and tell us the title, tell us how often and what it is that you’re talking about on the show. 

[00:27:34] Dalene Higgins: Yeah, so I started Wealthy After 40 last April and my focus is for Gen Xers. I release episodes every Tuesday. I did take a break in December, but I don’t have any foreseeable breaks in the future. And I focus on anything that’s personal finance, debt, savings, financial freedom. And then I also love to include anything that impacts. 

[00:27:59] [00:28:00] Gen Xers as the sandwich, generation with aging parents, adult kids, we got killed still in college, who we may or may not be supporting and just segueing all of these things, employer benefits, what did those look like? What do I care? I just try to bring all of that information so that as a Gen Xer, whether you’re, 43 to I think we’re at 58 now that you can benefit and do better with your personal finance and know those steps you need to take. 

[00:28:30] I have a, I think it’ll be in February, an episode she’s younger, she’s not a Gen Xer. her, but she was caring for her grandmother and just sharing about, how long term care may or may not be something you should consider. And so I just love to, pull in people with a lot of those information that we may benefit immediately, whether it’s in our lives, our parents lives, our kids lives, or that we may need to consider in the next 20 or 30 years, 

[00:28:55] Desiree Stanley: yeah, excellent. Thank you for sharing that with us. And I have listened to your show as well, and [00:29:00] I find it just fantastic, full of useful information. Highly recommend the listeners check it out. So thank you for sharing that. And then, as I always love to ask my guests if there’s any books that they think are beneficial or would be helpful for the listeners, if you would like to share that with us now. 

[00:29:18] Dalene Higgins: Yeah, so Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. It’s an easier read, it, even though it does sound, technical with that psychology in there. Just why, we may be thinking the way we should, or why we should change our thinking. It’s really supportive of that, and hopefully it’ll give you a different outlet on money. 

[00:29:38] Positive. Hopefully help you on this last, part of your journey and getting to that financial vision and how, maybe even how to create that financial vision. 

[00:29:47] Desiree Stanley: Excellent recommendation. Thank you for that. And I’ll include that in the show notes for sure for the listeners, as well as a link to your podcast. 

[00:29:55] So Darlene, thank you again for joining us and sharing this information. And I [00:30:00] have thoroughly enjoyed it again. You’re just sharing such fabulous knowledge and I appreciate it. And I appreciate your time. Thank you. 

[00:30:07] Dalene Higgins: Thank you. Appreciate being here. 

[00:30:09] Desiree Stanley: Before we close out, I would love for you to share where the listeners would be able to find you, also if they have questions for you, or if they want to see follow along the journey that you’re taking, where would they be able to do that? 

[00:30:23] Dalene Higgins: Yep. Come find me on Instagram at Elevate_Finances. If you have questions, you can DM me there. Or go check out my website, www. elevatefinances. us has all the information about me, about my services and why I do what I do as well as a free community. 

[00:30:41] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. I’ll include that information in the show notes as well. Thank you for sharing that. And again, Dalene, thank you so much for joining us. It was an honor to have you on again. Thank you. 

[00:30:52] Dalene Higgins: Yeah. Thank you. 

[00:30:54] Desiree Stanley: All right. We’ll talk more soon. 

[00:30:55] Thank you dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge [00:31:00] podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it. 

[00:31:15] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Janice Hoult Podcast_02_07_2024
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:21] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Janice Hoult. How are you today, Janice? 

[00:00:30] Janice Hoult: I’m doing wonderful. How are you? 

[00:00:33] Desiree Stanley: I’m doing excellent. Thank you so much for joining us today. And Janice, you are the founder and owner of High Vibe Weight Loss.

[00:00:43] And I am so excited to discuss this topic with you. We talked before we began and really the topic that we’re going to be discussing is an angle on weight loss. And that’s really about holistic weight loss and why [00:01:00] the traditional diets don’t work. And so, again, welcome to the show and let’s just start by having you share with us how this came to be for you, what led you down this path.

[00:01:13] Janice Hoult: Yeah, so thank you so much for having me. I’m always excited to talk about this topic. I’m a holistic nutritionist and a life coach, and I started really on my own wellness path while I was working in corporate, and I actually used to Be a marketer and advertiser for the world’s largest food manufacturers.

[00:01:33] So my path has been very interesting that now I do the exact opposite. I promote the consumption of healthy foods that actually make you well. Whereas before I was promoting the overconsumption of foods that, tend to make us sick, add weight and lead to health concerns that we don’t necessarily want, which at the time when I started in my very young age. I didn’t realize that. I just thought this was [00:02:00] fun. I’m working for these major corporations and I was also promoting these foods as being convenient and delicious and all the things that they really, truly were. And over my 15 years as a marketer, I definitely saw the angle shift from convenient and taste to healthy because that is what consumers wanted.

[00:02:17] As people are, were getting older, the baby boomers were getting older, they were more interested in health conscious foods. And the companies that I was working for weren’t changing their foods to be healthier. We were just marketing them in certain ways as healthier. And, a light bulb went off for me when I was planning on starting my own family and I was getting healthy for myself and for my future family.

[00:02:38] And then I realized that what I was doing as my career was not ethically aligned with what I was doing in my life. And so I went back to school. I became a holistic nutritionist. And then I started my practice actually in fertility and pregnancy nutrition, because that’s where my journey started, but I was also struggling with my weight.

[00:02:56] And I didn’t feel like I was ready to start talking about how to [00:03:00] eat to lose weight and, be healthy from that weight standpoint, because I was still struggling for myself. And when I was working with my clients, they were not Following the nutrition protocols and the plans that I was creating for them for, having a healthy pregnancy and baby and I thought to myself, I’m like, wow, like they can’t even comply with the meal plans and the nutrition guidelines.

[00:03:24] I’m like, I’m having a problem complying with the way that I want to eat to lose weight. So I started diving into life coaching and neuroscience and habit formation. And I went down that path and I started applying what I was learning with my clients. They were getting really good results. And I started applying that to myself and my own life.

[00:03:42] And I started losing the weight finally, after 30 years of struggling. And so as I did that for myself, people started noticing, they asked me to help them. And then I ended up shifting my focus. And so that’s how. I started working in weight loss, the career that [00:04:00] I said I wasn’t going to do. But I think that for anyone who starts their own business, especially in the health fields, it always does start because of our history, because of our own passions, because we overcame something and we just can’t help but help other people do the same thing.

[00:04:18] Desiree Stanley: Oh, my gosh, Janice. I love that. Thank you for sharing that journey with us. And in such an interesting shift, like you said, going from working for these big brands that typically are not really health conscious, not really healthy choices, and then completely shifting and getting into how can you eat well.

[00:04:40] And I love that you shared that it started with being involved with That pregnancy journey for you and wanting to make sure that you’re taking care of yourself and where that kind of led you. And so thank you so much for sharing that. Let’s dig into the holistic aspect of it, because I’m super curious on [00:05:00] what that means exactly.

[00:05:01] And how does that play into what you’re sharing with your clients? 

[00:05:06] Janice Hoult: Yeah. So to be perfectly honest, I always struggled with my weight. I always was trying to lose weight or maintain a weight loss, but I wasn’t doing it in a healthy way and it certainly wasn’t for a good reason. So it wasn’t until I started my own family that I decided I wanted to get healthy.

[00:05:24] Otherwise, it was more for, vanity, just to, look a certain way to fit in and all of that. But definitely when my motivation shifted, that allowed me to open up and realize, okay, there’s something more than just the diet. So we’re going on like the traditional ways that I used to look at diets and the way a lot of people still do is.

[00:05:43] What is the meal plan that’s going to work? What’s the diet? What’s the protocol? What’s the tea? What’s the powder or potion or injection or whatever it is that’s going to get me to that goal, but we all know, especially the older that we get, like that doesn’t work, [00:06:00] maybe it works when we’re younger and our metabolism and we have a whole bunch of spare time to be doing all these

[00:06:04] crazy things, but as we get older, we realize, okay, that’s not the answer. So it’s not just one sided. It’s not just about the food. When I talk about holistic weight loss, it takes into account the account that we are a whole entire person. And so it’s not just what we put out our mouths, but why we are eating the things that we’re eating when we’re eating, why are we overeating?

[00:06:24] Why are we binge eating? And a lot of that has to do with us mentally, physically, emotionally, psychologically, biologically, all of it. And so when I finally lost my weight, I had to tie in all of that. It’s not just why, so this is the meal plan. I sit down, I’m like, I know all the calories. I know the macro balance.

[00:06:46] I know that if I just ate this and I moved this much, like on paper, I would lose this amount of weight. But then I wouldn’t be able to follow it because there’s more than just the numbers and on paper there [00:07:00] was what was I thinking about it? Why can’t I do it? And that’s what most of my clients struggle with.

[00:07:04] It’s not that they don’t know how to eat. It’s that they can’t stick to the way that they think that they should eat. For lots of different reasons, but a lot of them have to do with our mind, our hormones, our energy, our limiting beliefs. Like it’s a whole, like it’s a bunch of puzzle pieces that we need to put together for each individual person and why it is that they can’t stick to, the most effective ways to release the weight.

[00:07:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such a great point there. Truly, you can’t just look at one aspect. You are a whole human. There are so many parts and pieces to what you just shared, like the mental aspect of it, the physical aspect, the hormones what’s happening in your life, the stress, all of those things have to be looked at as a whole. And yeah, certainly it would be so great if we could just say, all [00:08:00] right, if I just eat these things and move like this, it’s going to just happen. That does sound great on paper, but in the real world, in our real lives, when we have all of these things happening, most of the time that just goes right out the window.

[00:08:14] Janice Hoult: Yeah, we wake up in the morning with really good intentions and then we go to bed feeling guilty that we didn’t follow. That original plan that we had and could, really just think about for those five minutes, then life happens, right? And then we get into our subconscious habits or subconscious thoughts.

[00:08:31] And literally we could take one day and pick it up and put it into the next day and the next day and the next day because we are. It’s just a series of habits and thought patterns and reactions and actions. And so we really need to get to the root cause of why we’re holding on to weight, why we are gaining weight from that physiological perspective, like hormones and what is going on with our metabolism, our body, as well [00:09:00] as what is going on in our brain that’s preventing us from doing the things that we say we want to do.

[00:09:05] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s a hundred percent. I think so many of us have that very issue, like the good intentions. We know what we need to do. We’re just not doing it. And looking at why is that happening? Let’s talk about that a little bit more

[00:09:20] like why is the weight not being released from the body when we’re. Working on a plan that, we know is going to help us and we are, we’re working out or we’re doing whatever the thing is, why is the weight not being released? 

[00:09:38] Janice Hoult: Yeah. So if we’re doing all of the things, let’s say you do get a diet, like on paper, if I were to follow this, I would lose weight.

[00:09:45] And then you follow it and you’re still not losing weight. What is going on? Well, it could be a hormonal imbalance. It could be that your hunger hormones are off and it’s causing you to store fat rather than release fat. Maybe you are taking in a certain amount of food and you’re burning [00:10:00] that food off to To get you through the day that you need for your energy and your nourishment, but then you’re not accessing your stored fat.

[00:10:08] So you need to be able to access your stored fat in order to release that and that’s like a physiological response, right? It could be that you are chronically stressed. Most people that I talk to, they would say Yeah, I probably have a mild to medium amount of stress in my life. All of the time and then sometimes it peaks and, then it goes back down to their baseline, which would still be like a medium stress.

[00:10:32] And when we have a lot of stress in our lives, our body releases cortisol, the stress hormone, which causes us to hold on to weight. Because if you think about it evolutionarily, if we were living in a stressful environment, at any moment, we need to run away from a saber toothed tiger or fight, a wild boar.

[00:10:51] We, we want to have reserved energy in ourselves to be able to do that, to fuel that. So, that causes us to [00:11:00] hold on to weight, also causes us to crave certain foods that that cause us to gain weight. So, there’s all of the hormones, those are just a few that we’re talking about I haven’t even gotten into estrogen dominance and a few other ones that really do affect our weight and on our fat storage, but then we also have psychological reasons why we might not lose the weight. Maybe we don’t feel it’s safe to lose the weight. Maybe we feel like we’ll be ostracized or we won’t fit in evolutionarily. We are tribal creatures, especially as women. We need to fit into a tribe.

[00:11:34] We are designed to want to fit in for safety because if we didn’t have a tribe of people to keep us safe and we got, pushed out of the cave. We would be more likely to die. It’s different for men, like they would still be more at risk, but for women, we just wouldn’t have those same survival abilities because, of our size, of our physique and all of that.

[00:11:55] We have to fit in. So if there’s a fear of being pushed outta the tribe because we are [00:12:00] seen as being too good or different than somebody else, or people are gonna say things about us that are going to cause us to think like. Survival y oh my god, I don’t fit in now. I have to mold myself to be a part of this tribe.

[00:12:15] And lots of other reasons. Maybe you grew up believing you are destined to be overweight, to look like your mother, your siblings, or whatever it is. You have this preconceived notion that this is the way it’s going to be. And what we think about, we create. So it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.

[00:12:30] If you don’t think you’re able to lose weight, guess what, you’re not going to be able to lose weight. If you think you’re destined to be overweight, guess what, you’re going to be overweight because our thoughts create our emotions that create our actions that then create our results. So never ever will you ever think, I’m not going to be able to lose weight.

[00:12:46] And then, oops, I lost weight. And if you did, you would gain it back because you wouldn’t have the identity to match. Somebody that had that size, right? You would still think this is strange. This doesn’t feel right. And then you would gain the weight back. So there’s that as [00:13:00] well. And there’s other reasons why we might be holding onto weight based on our habits too, right?

[00:13:05] Maybe we think that we’re doing well, but we have these underlining habits, these blind spots that we can’t see that are causing us to hold onto weight. And that was. part of my problem. Here I was a nutritionist for goodness sakes and I was overweight and I’m like I know all the things what is going on and I just had some blind spots that I didn’t realize that I was doing that I had to deal with that I had to heal first before I was able to release it.

[00:13:28] So I basically say it’s like this baggage that we carry around and it’s physical and it’s mental and it’s emotional and it’s energetic so we have to learn to release that first in order to Get the weight that we want, or if for some reason we do lose the weight, let’s say we do all these injections that are out right now.

[00:13:46] We have these magic pills and stuff. This happened to me back when herbal magic was a big thing and I lost all of this weight so fast, gained it back faster than I lost it. So anybody who is doing the injections for [00:14:00] weight loss, unfortunately, if you don’t get to the root cause of why you’re holding onto the weight in the first place, it is going to come back because you’re just going to go back to the same habits, pattern, and identity that you had at that size. 

[00:14:12] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, such great information in there. Talking about the idea of not wanting to be pushed out of the tribe. So trying to be like everyone else. And I think that, this is not new information. We all, we know this about ourselves is that we don’t want to be pushed out. We want to be like everybody else because of this.

[00:14:37] Survival mode, whether we consciously think it or not. And so that’s huge. 

[00:14:41] Janice Hoult: And we don’t want to think that. We don’t want to think that though too, right? In this day and age, like we’re supposed to be strong and powerful women and not care about what anybody thinks. And we’re just totally ignoring the natural function of our brain for our own safety.

[00:14:53] Instead of like you said, like realizing it. And what does that mean? Accepting it and now work with our brain [00:15:00] and understand that’s the way that we’re meant to evolve. So how do we overcome that rather than let’s just pretend blindly like we’re these strong boss babe women that’s nice to think, but subconsciously we don’t think that. So we have to live in reality in order to change reality. 

[00:15:16] Desiree Stanley: That’s right. Absolutely. And digging into those things that you’re not consciously aware of and my gosh, talking about habits and those things, those blind spots, again, such great information to think about because.

[00:15:31] I know for myself, just like reaching into the pantry to grab, a handful of popcorn or a handful of almonds or whatever. And it’s like these habits that you just don’t even think about anymore because you’re just doing them blindly, and so I think that’s another great point to to stop and really pay attention to what it is that you’re doing on a daily basis, right?

[00:15:55] That’s a huge point. But there is so many parts to [00:16:00] this and you’ve talked about the hormones and so. If you’re a person who is not even sure, is it a hormone issue? Like where would you start for that? If you want to jump in and say like, where’s a good place to start to figure that part out?

[00:16:16] Janice Hoult: Yeah. So talking about hormones, there’s lots of different hormones that can affect your weight loss. So I talked about cortisol, so that’s the hormone of stress. So you can judge yourself on a scale of one to 10, how much stress do I have in my life? That’s chronic. On average. The truth is, most people are probably sitting around a six, seven, or eight.

[00:16:38] And so, knowing that, okay, then naturally I am holding on to some extra weight for that reason, because that’s what cortisol does. It has a storing fat, as I explained. So, right there you can say, okay, there’s something that I need to do to help me manage my stress. And there’s lots of different we can We could spend a whole day talking about how to manage stress, right?[00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] And then there’s our hunger hormones. So whether they are dysregulated or not, and quite a lot of people have insulin resistance, not quite diabetes yet, maybe pre diabetic but just in general, having a dysregulation with their insulin, meaning that they are storing a lot more fat when you have a lot of sugar in your bloodstream, insulin’s released by the pancreas, it’s job is to go in there and eat up all the sugars and store it in your liver and in your muscles. But if there isn’t any room or if there’s such a flood of this insulin that’s being released, it needs to go somewhere and then it goes into your fat cells.

[00:17:34] So then you’re storing fat. And then we have leptin resistance. And what that is it is our hormone that tells us that we are full. So our fat cells when they are full are supposed to send a signal to your brain to say, Hey, we’re full. We don’t need to eat anymore. And this is another survival mechanism.

[00:17:54] So we’re tribal people. As I said, imagine that if we were just hoarders and we just ate all of the, like, [00:18:00] all of the time, then we would be taking food from our children and our family and our support system and our safety system. And also, again, running away from that tiger, fighting that wild boar.

[00:18:10] If you were too large, then, you would be putting yourself at risk. So we are supposed to have this off switch where it’s supposed to tell our brain hey, we’ve got enough stored energy. Let’s not, we don’t need to eat anymore. We can stop doing that. But. When that gets dysregulated, then that signal doesn’t get to our brain.

[00:18:26] So our brain actually thinks, Hey we’re hungry. We need to be storing some fat right now. And it actually makes you more hungry. So the way that you can tell is if you’re hungry all the time, if you’ve had a decent sized meal, and an hour or two later, you’re hungry again, and you logically can think There’s no way that I am that hungry.

[00:18:43] The way that I used to look at it is like my stomach is only so big. My meal was definitely bigger than my stomach. How is it that I’m possibly still hungry right now? Okay, I have a hormonal dysregulation with my hunger hormones. And then we have estrogen dominance and menopause and perimenopause and all of those [00:19:00] things to deal with.

[00:19:00] So, we can look at that to see, How are we right now with our hormones? You can do testing. You can see where you’re storing fat, so if you’re storing fat in your hips or if you have the love handles and you know that you have more estrogen in your body and you may need to do a liver detox or something to help to release that.

[00:19:17] You may need to Change your exposure to certain, estrogens and chemicals that are causing you to have this recirculating estrogen in your body that’s causing you to store fat. So from a hormonal perspective, those are just a few that we can look at. 

[00:19:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and thank you so much for going into the detail on that.

[00:19:36] That is super helpful information, I think, because so many of us don’t know any of that. And, myself included, there was some points that you made in there, and it’s the, I just ate and an hour later, I’m hungry again that’s not right, what is happening there. And so not realizing that is completely related to the issue of the signal that’s [00:20:00] happening between your, the fat cells in storage and your brain.

[00:20:03] That’s new information for me. Thank you again for sharing that with us, because then it gives us an opportunity to explore. And examine what’s happening and make different choices. 

[00:20:15] Janice Hoult: Exactly. And I say everyone doesn’t have to be like a nutritionist for themselves, but the more you can understand, the more it becomes less personal and more you can see it from like this observer perspective.

[00:20:26] You’re like, okay, it’s not like me that I’m weak that I, that I can’t do it that I’m destined to be overweight. It’s just okay, my body has a thing that’s going on right now. I can fix that. I can naturally work with the way that my body is designed to naturally work. And then once we get into balance, what I call an alignment and homeostasis, the body’s going to do its job.

[00:20:47] It’s just our job to get out of the way. 

[00:20:49] Desiree Stanley: Yes. And because we do have, so we have access to so much food for the most part we, and we can choose to eat. [00:21:00] that much food, but it’s like making different choices based on where you want to be and examining, like you said, examining what’s happening and really digging into what’s going on and what do I need to do differently?

[00:21:18] Janice Hoult: Yeah. What do you need to differently? And I will say that the food system is not designed to make you well, unfortunately. And again, I came from that industry and it’s not like I never have chips or pizza or any of that stuff, but I do so knowingly that these foods are designed to be sometimes foods to be hyper pleasurable foods.

[00:21:35] They’re not designed to make you well, they’re not nutritious and they shouldn’t be a part of every single meal of every single day. And we can’t just trust that, Oh, it’s fine. Like the thing that I find so interesting now, as I look at food marketing is the tagline made with real food ingredients. Have you seen that?

[00:21:52] I’ve, I saw it on three ads right in a row at one day and I was like, that’s ridiculous. Shouldn’t all food be made with real food ingredients? [00:22:00] So when we know that, we realize like we have to take the power back. We have to take our own autonomy back to manage that part of our lives. If we want to change, if we want something different for ourselves, we can’t trust that somebody else industry, this trillion dollar industry is out to do good and help to service and make us healthy and nourished.

[00:22:21] And no, that’s not their job. Their job is to make money. Our job is to take care of ourselves and get the help that we need in whatever area feels right so that we can get that results and take our responsibility back. So definitely the food system is one thing that we are up against that we have to make sure that we’re being responsible.

[00:22:40] And again, we use food for fuel and sometimes we use it for pleasure. And that brings me down to a whole nother rabbit hole. If you want to talk about emotional eating, cause that’s another big thing for a lot of, especially women. 

[00:22:54] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. And we can go ahead and talk a little bit about that if you’d like.

[00:22:59] But I just want to [00:23:00] say the point about these companies, they’re in it for the money. And so it’s really not their job to provide you with healthy foods. It’s really let’s get the best tasting foods that we know that they’re going to want to buy. So that we can make more money 

[00:23:18] Janice Hoult: and let’s make them really convenient so that people are going to want it because it fits into their lives.

[00:23:24] It’s hyper palatable, super delicious. It’s very convenient. And a lot of times it’s cheaper than the healthier option. 

[00:23:31] Desiree Stanley: Unfortunately that’s, that is true. Yeah. I saw something a while back and it was really interesting to me. It was an image of foods that are, considered junk foods.

[00:23:44] And it said, If your food lasts a long time, it’s bad for you. And then there was an image of like healthy fruits and vegetables and whatever. And if your food goes bad really quickly, it’s good for you. And it was like. [00:24:00] Oh my gosh. In your face. So, it’s so true. If something is full of preservatives, it’s going to last a long time.

[00:24:07] It’s not good for your body. It’s not good for you. If it’s going to go bad quickly, it’s good for you. 

[00:24:14] Janice Hoult: Exactly. I saw a post too recently, and it was actually a picture of a McDonald’s hamburger and french fries in a glass case. And it said the last meal McDonald’s ever served in Sweden. And it was like, 20 years old.

[00:24:30] I’m probably butchering the amount, but it’s, it was there for a really long time and it looked the same as if you got it that exact day. There’s so many preservatives in it. And so what is that doing to your body? What is that doing for your health? Nothing. And I understand, like we talked economically, like sometimes that is cheaper.

[00:24:47] And if there isn’t any other options, it would make sense, but unfortunately, it’s designed to do that. And you either, pay now or you pay later with your health. And so we have to, again, take that onus back on ourselves to get what we want out [00:25:00] of our health, our lives, ourselves. And if you’re on this personal development path, that’s one of the most important areas that you can look at is the food that you eat.

[00:25:11] And obviously like your mental health and your mental state and helping to Make sure that you can follow through with the goals that you have and doing the things that you need to do in order to get there. 

[00:25:23] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. And it’s something that just sparked with what you said in that these foods are not good for you, physically, but also what are they doing to your mental health because of the chemicals that are, in the foods they’re disrupting kind of everything in your body and your mind.

[00:25:44] And we know that food is fuel. We know that food is everything that makes your health, right? Whether it’s physical health or mental health. And so the choices that you’re making in the food, yes, obviously [00:26:00] sometimes there are circumstances that prohibit, but if you can make those better choices, that’s ideal, obviously.

[00:26:08] Janice Hoult: Yeah. And we’re designed to be resilient too. So we have this like this cap where if we manage to stay healthy most of the time, make better choices most of the time, and then once in a while if we can’t or there’s a situation, then it’s not a big deal, right? Because we have this system that’s already there in place.

[00:26:29] And so, we call it like we’re overloading the system. And when we overload the system, that’s when we start to see the physical effects. Maybe even it is like a mental effect. Like we all know we feel slow. We feel sluggish. We get brain fog. We get tired. We, lose our desire and our will to do certain things.

[00:26:47] We get moody. All of that is affected by the food that we eat. If we’re eating too much sugar or flour-y foods or simple carbohydrates, like we get that spike. You can see that hormonal spike where it’s like [00:27:00] you you feel like super energized and then you have a crash and then you get cranky and then you need to eat again and then you end up being like on this roller coaster ride and you can see that so easily and then what is that doing day in and day out plus the chemicals and you know a whole nother path we could talk about but basically we are what we eat.

[00:27:19] Physically, mentally, and emotionally. 

[00:27:22] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. Well, I want to switch gears a little bit. You had mentioned earlier on in the show that the injectable things that we’re seeing a lot now commercials in the news in, everywhere. We’re seeing celebrities using these products, everyday people using these products.

[00:27:43] What’s happening there? And what I mean, how bad is it? 

[00:27:49] Janice Hoult: It’s the new quick fix, right? It’s the new thing that, is working on the surface to help people lose weight. And again, I did that when I was younger too, and I messed up my [00:28:00] hormones and it did a toll for sure on my psyche and on my body.

[00:28:05] But really what’s happening there is there’s this miracle drug, there’s this miracle solution, and everybody wants it because everybody wants to release the weight. Like 80 percent of the population in North America is overweight or obese. And so, it makes sense. The pharmaceutical companies, just like the food companies, Figure out what it is that you want and they find a way to give it to you, but the problem, there’s lots of problems with it, is first of all, if you have diabetes and you need this medication, a lot of people are having a hard time getting it.

[00:28:37] Because people are turning to it just for weight loss and so that’s an issue for those people who do actually require it for management of their diabetes as hopefully they’re looking to reverse their diabetes, which you can do with food and there’s lots of experts out there that can support you in doing that.

[00:28:53] But also it’s not teaching you how to manage your food, how to manage your emotions around [00:29:00] food, how to manage your habits. It’s basically having a very strict parent looking over you and slapping you every time you want to eat. Being like, you can’t eat that, you can’t eat that, you’re gonna get sick, I’m gonna hurt you.

[00:29:11] Unfortunately, that is what happens. you can’t overeat, right? Because otherwise, you physically feel sick, you can’t take in the food. But then, you’re gonna have to be on this for the rest of your life. Otherwise, you’re going to go off it and you’re going to gain the weight back and then unfortunately, likely gain even more back because you’ve restricted all of these foods that you’ve been craving and desiring for so long.

[00:29:31] It’s just going to be like what happened to me when I got pregnant, I was restricting so much before I got pregnant. As soon as I got pregnant, it’s like now it’s a free for all and I could eat all the things that I ended up gaining like. I don’t even know. So much weight. At least 70 pounds until I told my midwife I was not even stepping on the scale anymore.

[00:29:46] But yeah, unfortunately that’s what’s going to happen for those that don’t stay on it for life, which I don’t think is a viable solution. And then there’s also the controversy of what weight are you actually losing? Are [00:30:00] you losing stored fat weight or are you losing muscle mass? And unfortunately a lot of the studies are showing is that a lot of that weight is muscle.

[00:30:08] And so that’s really scary. It is scary, especially for women who are over 35, who are over 40 as we age and then women who, and men too, who are getting into our later years because that muscle mass is so important for not only our overall health and our physical health, but also for our stability, for our balance, the number one reason why elderly people fall.

[00:30:36] Is because they don’t have the muscle mass and the balance and then the number one cause of death in elderly is a fall and then, reoccurring incidents of health deterioration because of that, because they end up in the hospital, because they can’t move anymore. And so it actually really is something that you need to consider if you are older and you’re looking at taking these injections. If you’re losing muscle [00:31:00] mass, you have to go to the gym and you got to start working out. You got trying to gain it back in another way. So I’d really encourage anybody to do their research before they go and take the shortcut because unfortunately there is going to be a price to pay. We just don’t know what that is just yet.

[00:31:14] We know where it’s headed though and it’s pretty scary. 

[00:31:18] Desiree Stanley: Oh, gosh. Thank you, Janice. I appreciate you sharing that information with us because I don’t think that people realize that they maybe aren’t doing the research they need to do. And we always want the easy solution. And that’s the easy solution.

[00:31:34] And so I can see how it would be a very quick decision for some people. And again, the people who really need it, who need to reverse diabetes, and they’re not being able to get it, that’s not okay. So I want to say thanks again for detailing that information for us The importance of not losing muscle mass also which affects our balance and Strength and all of that.

[00:31:59] I [00:32:00] think there’s a such good things to remember. 

[00:32:03] Janice Hoult: And our metabolism as well, which I didn’t mentioned, but our metabolism is made up by our muscle mass. And so if that deteriorates, and so does our metabolism, and then there you go, some more weight gain right there, because you’re not burning as much weight throughout the day as you normally would through your regular energetic expenditure.

[00:32:20] Desiree Stanley: And you’re just continuing to tip the scale in the wrong direction going that route. Yeah I want to talk now a little bit about some effective steps, then that we can take to really begin to release the weight that we’re looking to do how what can we do to make better choices?

[00:32:43] And what are your thoughts on that? 

[00:32:45] Janice Hoult: I’ll give you one tip for every area. So I focus on mind, body, spirit alignment. So we talk about the body, we’re talking about our hormones, we talk about the mind, we talk about our thoughts and talk about spirit. I’m talking about our energy and our emotions.

[00:32:58] So let’s talk first with our [00:33:00] hormones because we talked a lot about that. From a nutritional standpoint, the one thing you can do is look at your sugar intake, And your simple carbohydrate intake, a lot of people think I’ll just go keto and then I’ll lose the weight, which a lot of people do. But unfortunately for women, keto is very hard on our system, especially if we do it for really a long time.

[00:33:18] A lot of women find that they lose their menstrual cycles if they’re doing keto because it’s so low carb. So when I talk about simple carbs, it’s different than all carbs. Vegetables are carbs, fruits are carbs. Whole grains are carbs. We don’t need to be cutting those out and we don’t want to be cutting those out as women, we actually need more carbs than men need.

[00:33:40] So we want to take a look at your sugars, which is usually, in processed food, added to foods, as well as our breads, our anything that’s made with a flour. So whether it’s a refined flour or an almond flour, anything like that. All of that is likely to spike your blood sugar. That’s going to [00:34:00] cause that increase in insulin that’s then going to cause your fat storage.

[00:34:05] So that’s one area that you can look at and see where can you cut back on your added sugars? Where can you cut back on your simple carbohydrates that you’re consuming? And then from a mental perspective, well, there’s lots of different angles that we can go with on that. And I would say the first thing that you could do is look at what Habits do you currently have around food? Get really conscious and aware. So this is going down the track of mindful eating and just see logically, what am I eating? So I think that we have an idea of what we’re eating, but then if we actually were to track it and honestly track it. That will give you a better realistic view of this is what I’m eating.

[00:34:46] Because it’s probably not that your breakfast, your lunch, and your dinner. It’s probably, maybe you’re having too much breakfast, lunch, and dinner to the point that you’re overly full. Maybe you are sneaking in some of this, and some of that, and a bit more of this. [00:35:00] And all of that does add up. So getting really conscious and aware of what you’re eating.

[00:35:05] So this is where a tracker might be really helpful. I don’t use trackers in my practice when I’m working with my clients, except maybe at the beginning to say Hey, just let’s look at what you are actually eating versus what you think you are eating. Cause we have our perception and then we have the reality.

[00:35:21] And if we can take our emotions out of it and just look at it from that point of view. And I would caution anybody to when they’re doing this, don’t fudge the numbers to get to a calorie or a macro balance that you want to have. So I used to do this all the time too. I’d be like, well, this is what I ate.

[00:35:35] And then I would look at the total. I’m like, you know what? Maybe it was like, Less fries and maybe it was this like it wasn’t a tablespoon of, ketchup. It was just like a little squirt and I would change the numbers around to match the numbers that I wanted to see. So let’s just get really honest and see what it is that we’re doing so that we know what we’re working with.

[00:35:52] And then another thing that you can do from that standpoint as well is maybe just do a quick brainstorming like a [00:36:00] thought download or a brain dump of what are all the thoughts that you have around losing weight and see if those thoughts are supportive of where it is you want to go, the weight that you want to lose, or is there anything there that would cause you to hold back from wanting to lose the weight?

[00:36:16] So when we talked about like getting kicked out of the tribe, my best friend’s gonna think this, my mom’s gonna make comments, what if my husband’s not gonna, Like me anymore or whatever, maybe I’m going to be getting unwanted attention and that’s going to feel really insecure for me, let’s look at that and address that because if you have reasons why subconsciously you would not want to lose weight and it doesn’t matter what it is that you do throughout the day because we are in our subconscious mind and our automatic thoughts and habits like 95 percent of the time.

[00:36:49] It doesn’t matter if consciously you say I can do this. I can lose weight. For that 5 percent of the time that we are on our conscious brain and thinking and planning and strategizing, that’s the first thing in the morning when we wake up, we’re like, we’re gonna do this thing. [00:37:00] All of a sudden we switch into our subconscious and then 95 percent of the time we’re running on that autopilot.

[00:37:05] So we really have to address those underlining beliefs, make sure that they align with the goal that we want to have, or we’re going to be fighting them subconsciously and we are always going to lose. And then I would say from a energetic perspective, you can look at What are the experiences that you have that bring up certain emotions for you that cause you to overeat?

[00:37:27] This was a blind spot for me that I didn’t have. I didn’t realize that I was an emotional overeater. I don’t consider myself an emotional person. I don’t have a lot of ups. I don’t have a lot of downs. I’m not crying all the time. I’m not like screaming and shouting. I would consider myself to be very mentally stable.

[00:37:41] So I never would have thought that I emotionally overate. But when I really thought about it, when I studied how I was eating, it was the when I’m watching TV, I’m feeling a bit bored, then I have this thing. When I’m feeling underappreciated throughout the day I [00:38:00] was doing all these things and nobody gave me the acknowledgement that I wanted.

[00:38:03] I just want to feel good so that I go into the fridge, right? Maybe I’m using it to manage my stress, I’m sure there were days when it was like that was a tough day. I need just some relief and then you go for that glass of wine. All of those times really add up. So where are the triggers for you emotionally?

[00:38:20] Why are you eating when you’re not hungry? What is going on energetically for you that is causing you to overeat and look at all of that. Awareness is where it starts in all aspects of body mind spirit holistic weight loss 

[00:38:38] Desiree Stanley: Oh, my gosh, that’s awesome. Thank you so much for sharing those with us. Janice. I love it.

[00:38:43] I love the not thinking that you’re an emotional eater. And then when you really stop and look at your behaviors, it’s okay, wait a minute. Hang on, I’m doing this and that, and not even really realizing that it’s [00:39:00] related to maybe it’s a stressful day or, being, like you said, feeling underappreciated or whatever the case may be until we stop and look at those things, we just have no idea.

[00:39:12] And then I love what you shared about fudging the numbers a little bit. And so in the past, I have used MyFitnessPal as a tracker for the macros and all of that. And I, yeah, a hundred percent like, okay, maybe it wasn’t quite that much of this thing and adjusting it. And it’s you know what, that’s not going to get you where you want to go.

[00:39:35] If you’re not being honest with yourself, regardless of what the case is, if it’s losing weight or whatever, if you’re not being honest with yourself you’re not going to get wherever it is you want to go. So great reminder there. There was one other thing that I thought of and I was like, Oh yeah, a hundred percent. That distracted eating when you’re watching TV. I think so many of us.[00:40:00] That’s what happens, right? We’re in, relaxed mode, we’re watching a show or whatever. And it’s yeah, let’s have some popcorn. Yeah. Let’s have, a little piece of chocolate or a glass of wine or whatever.

[00:40:09] I think so many of us do that because they almost begin to go hand in hand. 

[00:40:15] Janice Hoult: Yes. That’s the habitual overeating that I see a lot of the times that we don’t even realize, you have a movie, there’s some popcorn. You go out with the girls, okay, let’s have a Charcuterie like whatever it is. It’s just, and then it just becomes so automatic when we get on this autopilot and then it’s just what we do.

[00:40:30] I definitely saw a lot of that, I think, during the pandemic when people are at home a lot. They would tell me I got into these really bad habits that I didn’t even have before. But once I started, then it just became the thing that I did, and I didn’t even think about it anymore.

[00:40:44] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Completely. I think that, that whole time period really did a number on us in so many ways, but yes, one of them also being that being home, having access to our refrigerators and our freezers and our pantries and whatever, made that [00:41:00] snacking super duper easy.

[00:41:02] Yeah, versus when you’re, yeah, when you were at an office and you were at a desk and you only had a certain amount of time to go have your lunch or go do whatever. Yeah, totally made a difference for a lot of people. I think, but let’s talk now a little bit about something that you had shared and in what you discuss a lot is.

[00:41:22] Weight loss shaming and you touched on some of that before, again, about the being part of the tribe, or, maybe your husband is not going to be happy with the way that you look now or whatever. So let’s talk a little bit more about that. 

[00:41:37] Janice Hoult: Yeah. So I actually have a whole podcast episode about weight loss shaming, and the problem with the body positivity movement, which I love is the concept.

[00:41:45] Of course, we should all be body positive. We should be positive about our bodies, no matter what size they’re at. The problem that I see is that now we’re getting pushback for wanting to change ourselves for the [00:42:00] better. So there’s a big pushback against personal development, which I find fascinating that we should just accept everything that we have and be okay with, whatever it is, the cards that were dealt with or how the cookie crumbled right with our situation right now.

[00:42:13] But you would never say that to somebody who was struggling financially to be like no, please just accept your financial position right now. Do not try to improve your life. Stay where you are. That would not be okay. When it comes to our bodies, which we are in charge of and nobody should be policing for us, if we are doing it from our own authentic reasons, not because somebody told us that we have to, even in my podcast, I say even if your doctor told you that you have to, lose weight, you still need to internalize why that’s important to you, what that means for you, and not just do it because somebody, the media, a celebrity, whatever that pressure is, I definitely felt when I was a lot younger.

[00:42:54] And do it because you love yourself so much, not because you don’t love your [00:43:00] body. But because you do love yourself enough that you want to go after something that feels right and aligned for you. And so, I could go on forever about this too, but that’s really the gist of it, is that if you want to improve where you’re at right now, no matter if that’s physically, mentally, financially, in your relation, like nobody would say, accept a relationship that you don’t like.

[00:43:24] Nobody would ever say that. So you don’t have to accept a body that you don’t feel right in because you don’t feel right in it, not because the media told you that you’re wrong because of it. And do it because you love yourself enough that you want to change for your greatest good. Maybe it’s for your health.

[00:43:41] Maybe it’s for your appearance. Maybe you just want to rock a bikini or look good in a little black dress. That’s fine, as long as you want it for you. Then I say more power to you. 

[00:43:51] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. I love that. The point that you made about financial struggles or whatever. And my gosh, no, nobody would be just [00:44:00] like, okay, just sit in that you’ll just be fine.

[00:44:02] No, that would never happen. Of course we would be encouraging, we’ll find a better job or, do some other thing or whatever the case may be. to improve the situation. And so, yeah, why we would just say no, you shouldn’t be losing weight or you’re fine just as you are accepted as it is. You’re just fine the way you are.

[00:44:22] Janice Hoult: You’re bad for wanting to change. I think is. That’s not where we’re going for, and I don’t think probably was the original intention of the body and positivity movement either. 

[00:44:32] Desiree Stanley: No, I don’t think so either. So yes, thank you for highlighting this for us right now. And I want to touch on the fact that you mentioned your podcast and have you share that with us now because I love podcasts.

[00:44:45] I love listening to podcasts, obviously hosting this podcast. Sharing information. And so I’d love for you to share about your podcast now, what it’s called, what you talk about and do you have guests?

[00:44:57] Janice Hoult: Yeah. My podcast is called High [00:45:00] Vibe Weight Loss, and I talk about releasing the weight for good, permanently from a place of mind, body, spirit alignment. So there’s lots of episodes about hormones. There’s lots of episodes about mindset and how your thoughts create your results. There’s lots of podcast episodes too about your vibe, law of attraction, manifestation and all of that.

[00:45:22] Those are the pillars that I use when I work with my clients to help them look and feel their best inside and out. And so that’s what I go in depth with on my podcast. 

[00:45:34] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. 

[00:45:34] Janice Hoult: You check it out on Yeah, it’s on all the platforms. I’ve been doing it now for over a year and a half, so lots of content there.

[00:45:42] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I will for sure include that information in the show notes so that the listeners can easily find it. And I love that the variation of the topic that you’re handling in. Like the multifaceted way, right? You’re talking about energetics and mindset and the physical and the hormones [00:46:00] and, all of it.

[00:46:01] And I truly believe, we are complex and everything, can’t be solved from just one aspect. I love that you’re really covering it from all directions. 

[00:46:14] Janice Hoult: Yeah, I think that’s what helps make it permanent, right? A lot of people can white knuckle a diet for a wedding or a trip that you have coming up.

[00:46:21] It gets harder and harder the more that we do that, though, for a lot of neurological reasons. But, that’s totally possible, but it doesn’t last. And so my point, my goal when I’m working with anyone, when I’m talking even on podcasts like this is to help people see that if you want permanent, real, lasting weight loss to like finally stop struggling with this for once and for all and move on with your life and create this amazing life for yourself, you do have to get to the root causes, you do have to clear that up so that it can be long lasting and you and easily maintainable, it doesn’t have to be this big heavy topic, this big heavy thing that you do, you’re eating [00:47:00] anyway, let’s change the way you’re eating, you’re thinking anyway, let’s just improve the way that you’re thinking, so that you can create the result that you want, you’re feeling anyway, let’s feel freaking amazing, so that you can create the life that you want that is It’s amazing too.

[00:47:15] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love that. Awesome stuff. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And I want to ask as I do all of my guests, if there’s any books that you have found beneficial for yourself that you would love to share with the listeners, that would be awesome. 

[00:47:32] Janice Hoult: Yeah, so I read a lot of books. I would say some of the most impactful for me would be Dr. Joe Dispenza. Any of his books, definitely, but the most impactful one was Change your brain, change your life, I believe is what it’s called. And I do his meditations really found that to be life changing for me.

[00:47:52] And another book that I read over and over again, and this is more for creatives or business owners, and it’s called The War of [00:48:00] Art by Steven Pressfield. And it is all about overcoming your resistance and how that is just a natural voice in your head. And I think would apply to anyone also releasing, but I’ve actually never looked at it from that perspective.

[00:48:12] But how many times have we made the effort to eat a certain way and then there’s some excuse comes in, you know We have this like secondary voice in our head that tries to sabotage us And so that book is really great just to recognize that the resistance is normal Here’s a bunch of different ways that it shows up for you.

[00:48:32] This is how we overcome that It’s been really like I’ve read it so many times. I think Heard this quote From somebody talking that says it’s okay to not finish a book if it’s not feeling right for you. Get as many books as you want, feel free to quit, but the ones that really land, read them over and over again.

[00:48:53] And it’s funny because that’s what I find that I do with certain books. And that is one of them. 

[00:48:59] Desiree Stanley: Oh, great [00:49:00] recommendations for sure. I’ll include that information in the show notes. I hadn’t heard of the second book and If you repeat the title for me again, 

[00:49:09] Janice Hoult: The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. 

[00:49:12] Desiree Stanley: Okay, great. And Dr. Joe Dispenza, amazing. I have read a number of his books as well. And I was looking over at my bookshelf to see if I had it just sitting there and I could just grab it really quick because the name of the book is escaping me too. And It’s wild that I can’t think of it either.

[00:49:29] Janice Hoult: No, it’s something along those lines, but I’m sure you can put it in your show notes, that the title, but it was transformative for me. Yeah. 

[00:49:37] Desiree Stanley: All of his books are phenomenal and I highly recommend him. So I’ll for sure include the book that you’re suggesting. And then the one that I read, because I think it’s fabulous as well.

[00:49:48] But thank you again for sharing those with us. And then is there a podcast that you’d like to suggest? You shared yours, which was amazing, and I’ll include that. But is there any others that you think would be beneficial for the [00:50:00] listeners? 

[00:50:00] Janice Hoult: I’d say the podcast that’s been most transformational for me has been the Life Coach School podcast with Brooke Castillo.

[00:50:08] That’s really helped me to look into and how, I got trained in life coaching was through originally that podcast and then taking it further, but just changing your thoughts, seeing it from a different perspective, really looking at your mindset and how you think and how that transpires in your life to create and manifest what it is that you have.

[00:50:31] Yeah, I can’t recommend that highly enough. 

[00:50:34] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I’ll include that as well for the listeners to easily find. And I have listened to her show as well, and she’s awesome. 

[00:50:41] Well, Janice, before we close out the episode, I would love for you to share with the listeners where they can find you follow your journey. If they have questions for you, how would they be able to reach out to you? So if you’d share that with us now. 

[00:50:55] Janice Hoult: Yeah. So they can go to my website at [00:51:00] highvibeweightloss.Com. I have a free course on there that they can take to get the basics of holistic weight loss. You can connect with me if you’re interested in getting a free consultation where we actually go through where you’re at right now and set you up with a plan that will work for you and then talk about whether you want to bring that to life working together and getting the support that you need to make that happen.

[00:51:21] And then of course, we also talked about the podcast, High Vibe Weight Loss. 

[00:51:26] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. And so do you have an Instagram or a Facebook group or anything that you’d like to share? 

[00:51:32] Janice Hoult: Yeah. It’s high vibe weight loss all over the socials, Instagram, Facebook. 

[00:51:37] Desiree Stanley: Okay. Got it. I’ll include that as well for the listeners to easily find.

[00:51:41] And thank you again, Janice, for sharing that with us and your time. The information, the knowledge that you have shared with us today has been fantastic.

[00:51:51] And I think the points that you shared with us that we can easily implement into our life, I think have just been fantastic. So I appreciate [00:52:00] your time and your knowledge and sharing that with us today. Thank you. 

[00:52:04] Janice Hoult: Oh, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. And I want to acknowledge you for the work that you are doing by bringing on these guests and this information to your audience.

[00:52:13] And then they can take what resonates with them and dig further if they want. And so I just want to say thank you for having me and thank you for what it is that you do in the world. 

[00:52:22] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, we’ll talk more soon.

[00:52:24] Thank you dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:52:44] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Cheryl Whitelaw Podcast_01_31_2024
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:20] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my guest, Cheryl Whitelaw. How are you today, Cheryl? 

[00:00:30] Cheryl Whitelaw: I’m great. Great to be here. Thanks, Desiree. Wonderful. 

[00:00:33] Desiree Stanley: Well, I am excited to have Cheryl on the show. She’s going to be talking about Functional movement, and you are the CEO and owner of peace and power movement services, and you’re a functional movement specialist.

[00:00:48] And so really, you’re going to be talking about what that means and how that can benefit us in our lives. And so I’m very excited to learn more about this topic. So let’s start with how [00:01:00] did this kind of all come to be for you in developing this 

[00:01:04] Cheryl Whitelaw: movement services. Yeah, no, thanks. And it’s one of these journeys that if you’d asked me 20 years ago would I be doing this now, I would have said absolutely not, I grew up in a family of teachers and farmers, very focused on education.

[00:01:20] And so that was the path that I took. And I was always the weird kid not just in the class, but when there started to be rooms of faculty and researchers and people looking to improve educational experience, I was still the weird kid in the class because I was sitting there going, you know, what about the body?

[00:01:40] We’re doing all this mind thing and I had several influences come in at the right time, but it really was a confluence of, I had started the martial art of Aikido at age 46 and was really loving that kind of peaceful, you know, it’s a martial art, but it’s not it.[00:02:00] 

[00:02:00] It’s not winning a fight. It’s deescalating a conflict, right? And so really getting taken by that and starting to see incidents like, the college that I worked at, there was more physical fights, you know, it was a political time where all of a sudden bad behavior was, okay, somehow. And I realized that all this mental communications, reaching across differences and connecting on similarities work that I’ve been doing, which is lovely, still my heart center you know, when you’re in conflict, all that goes out the window.

[00:02:33] And so it really put me on a journey to look at how to work with people in their body more. I was a coach at the time and so started to bring some somatic based body based things in, but I really connected with a couple of teachers who absolutely changed my course path to look at both How do we even know how we’re moving and how [00:03:00] we’re moving well, and then applying that to how do I approach a challenge, and even more so, how do I approach a challenge I may not have the resources to do, which is In my world, one definition of trauma, when I’ve had some kind of unfortunate thing happened that I just didn’t have the resources to meet how can we use our bodies, innate knowledge, I’d call it somatic intelligence to bring to the table, all of the possible things that we could do that includes senses, includes feeling, moving and thinking so that we’re bringing all of ourselves.

[00:03:37] Into the movement and I’m thrilled to find that when that’s lit up, we become more compassionate. It’s hard to really evoke an aggressive response on someone when you’re really feeling and sensing them. Right. We require a certain numbness from the neck down to do those sort of acts.[00:04:00] 

[00:04:00] So the more that this cultivates, the more those kind of high actualization kind of qualities become part of your day to day. And, I’m talking about this in mundane sort of ways. I have a little pesky cat that at the wrong moment always jumps right on the keyboard or the papers or the thing.

[00:04:20] And so it used to always be a little fight. Like now I have this little compassion about she just wants attention. This is so the wrong time. And I can connect with what she’s needing and also what I need to do in terms of the boundaries. ushering her out of the room, right? Yeah. 

[00:04:38] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. That’s so interesting. Thank you for sharing that with us. And so it sounds like it was a progression in developing this. And so the peace and power movement specifically, how did that come about? 

[00:04:52] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, so that’s actually a reflection of I had started to really brand my work in terms of kind [00:05:00] power and this sort of paradox of saying, how can we both be kind and powerful at the same time?

[00:05:06] And what does that mean for how we use power? Power with people rather than assuming it’s a power over someone. Peace and power came out of the pandemic. I’m just privileged to train with a really wonderful Aikido teacher. I’ve been with him 10 years. So I’m in the throes of preparing for my black belt test at age 55, which, you know, takes a village sometimes to keep the body going for that.

[00:05:32] But we started to say, okay, given how much this has changed, how people can access this kind of training what can we do together? And so it became a collaboration about. Moving to online as so many of us had to pivot right from face to face services, but also saying, can we you know, put out some offerings that really expose people to a core of [00:06:00] some of these practices.

[00:06:01] There’s only so many people who are willing to go into a martial arts studio full stop. And is there a way we can bring some of this wisdom out and have people have direct experiences is. so much. Through classes like we teach a poise class, which is very much connecting mind, body, and I would say spirit.

[00:06:19] In terms of cultivating this intelligence or move freely class, which is really focusing in on functional movement and helping people discover themselves in a different way so that they can discover their possibilities and how they can move freely. And then as well as one on one work, because of course, every person’s unique.

[00:06:41] And, you know, there’s a need to work with the specific patterns, but also the specific personal history that someone brings to this moment. 

[00:06:51] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh, I love that. That you’re covering all the different facets of where we’re at right now. And you mentioned the pandemic and [00:07:00] having to make some changes there as many of us did.

[00:07:03] But still offering it in a way that suits more people because, like you pointed out, not everyone is going to feel comfortable stepping into a martial arts studio. And I myself personally have not completed martial arts. However, my children both have their black belts in Taekwondo.

[00:07:23] So I took them to a martial artist. frequently. But not everyone is comfortable as certainly with that. And Aikido is quite different than Taekwondo. We’re not talking about the same thing at all. But it’s fantastic that you’re doing this at the age that you are, because It’s just another way to show we are only limitations is ourself, right?

[00:07:50] The limitations that we put on ourself. And so that you are the age that you are and doing this is fantastic. And I think is such a great example [00:08:00] of what’s capable, what we’re capable of. So I think that’s awesome. 

[00:08:04] And then I want to dig in a little bit more. You talked about kind power and that’s something that I want to know like what you mentioned it briefly.

[00:08:14] It’s not a power over someone. Right. But let’s talk about it a little bit more. What does it mean? And how does that relate to, you know, being resilient? 

[00:08:25] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah. To me, it’s, when I think about functional movement, And this question of power first of all, especially as women we want to talk about it, but not always in a physical way, like often we do internal bolstering, emotional you know, building ourselves up.

[00:08:43] What I would say is that’s great. I love that kind of mindset and heart set. And when you’re in a situation, where You really have to really set boundaries or really exert some kind of power. [00:09:00] Usually it’s verbally. I I guess I’m lucky to live in a sort of neck of the woods where, you know, I’m not really looking at physical violence on the streets.

[00:09:08] There’s many places in the world right now that are having that kind of reality. But we shrink away from knowing ourselves such that we know how we physically can move with power that we know what the possibilities are, I’m literally the last person who wants to get into a physical fight.

[00:09:27] When you train with force week in week out. You see how harmful that can be, right? And so, you know, it’s like I would do anything I could to just not go into that place. But it’s a different choice when you know you have capabilities about it, that you know you would have some options about how to manage yourself.

[00:09:49] You know, how you could exert enough control to change the outcome of a situation should you require it. And you know, I love Aikido. It’s a [00:10:00] particular form. I would say, you know, any kind of physical form that helps cultivate that in you gives you a kind of sense of, you know, about your power, you know, that you have options and you’re not afraid to exercise that you know, I have worked over the years as different people, but particularly women come to Aikido.

[00:10:23] And you know, part of the training is someone has to punch you and then you do a response. And inevitably, we have a 10 minute sort of mini tutorial of, I need you to punch me like you mean it, right? Because we grow up I, you know, I never fought with sisters, like it was verbal, you know, it was about somebody’s Barbie getting trashed, or you know what I mean?

[00:10:45] Like it, it was not that kind of direct experience. So, So really owning like I can exert power, but also I can receive power and be okay. So, so that’s, you know, a lot about the power when I think about [00:11:00] that, I can break that down in terms of functional movement and structures, but it really is a learning process where you come into knowing what you’re capable of and what’s possible so that you can face.

[00:11:14] Some of those limits because we are, you know, the pandemic really did a number on everyone. We want everything to be safe, a hundred percent. We want everything to be controlled and covered for us, but that’s never really been the real world. And so it’s, you really, when you know yourself to go to some of your own limits and be able to have possibilities there, then you know, you have some power at your control.

[00:11:42] The kindness piece, to me, it’s an inside and an outside kind of game, and so one very common thing is, what do you use your power for? And very much I’m influenced by the Aikido template that says, I may have The [00:12:00] strength and the know how to really harm you, but I choose a response that is less harmful.

[00:12:06] You know, I can’t say 100 percent not harmful because it depends what’s happening, but the intention is not to kill or. you know, hurt the other person, even if they’re attacking aggressively. And so it’s, you know, how do I use this with someone to de escalate a situation, to bring something back under control, and to make those choices that provide a possibility that the person who gets up off the floor after you’ve, you know, put them down there May not come with even more hatred with even more aggression again in my lived life This happens much more verbally, right?

[00:12:45] Like I’m not encountering this but it is those sort of things that you know Someone says something that could be triggering could be you know, something that isn’t okay How reactive are you or can you meet it from your [00:13:00] own center from your own center of your power? And have that conversation of, you know, like I, several times a day with my cat, this is not okay.

[00:13:09] With a neighbor, with a colleague, you know, can you come from a place where you’re, you still own your own power rather than being pushed into some other kind of reactive frame? I would say then you’re not in control of yourself. You’re not responsive to yourself. The last little internal bit, I would say, of the kindness is we kind of violence in many ways starts at home.

[00:13:33] You know, I had a post out today, you know, to my audience about New Year’s resolutions and what are the hidden habits that get in the way of starting something new. And one is that we set our expectations way up here. And it’s, you know, it’s like, It’s completely unreasonable to think that we would be perfect if we haven’t done a thing before, yet we do that kind of number to ourselves over and over.

[00:13:58] So it’s not saying [00:14:00] don’t have goals or don’t have standards, but it’s let You know, where is that place for kindness? If it was your best friend starting a new exercise program and the first couple of weeks they screwed up about it, would you you know, the harshness that comes from me to me, I would never go to a friend like, you have no business being, you know, trying to get more fit.

[00:14:19] You’ll never get to get. We have this kind of internal voice all the time, so it’s really extending that kindness and compassion to include ourselves So that we’re actually supporting ourselves, so you know whenever I do something like that Including you know the starting a martial art at middle age that inner cheerleader that every time there was a voice like I don’t think you could do this.

[00:14:42] You know you can barely get out of the car after your training session who are you kidding that little cheerleader says well Okay, it looks like you can get out of the car and then we can get out of the garage and then we can, you know, baby steps sometimes and then we can get the ice pack and, you know, whatever is but to say, why don’t we [00:15:00] support ourselves with that kind of kindness when it happens on the inside, it’s much more likely to happen on the outside.

[00:15:07] Cheryl, 

[00:15:07] Desiree Stanley: that’s fantastic. Everything that you just shared is awesome. And I want to touch on a couple of things. One, I think you’re right that so often we are harshest critics, right? And we need to have that compassion, like you said, for these things that we’re attempting that. It’s not something we’ve ever done before, or maybe we’ve tried before and we’ve struggled with before, but we’re trying again.

[00:15:33] And it’s just have that compassion that you would have for your best friend or your significant other or your child or whomever is in your life that you care about. I think that’s such a great point. So for sharing that again. And I love that you were talking about the, fights that you maybe were in growing up.

[00:15:53] It was never physical. It was verbal. And, for myself as well, I never engaged in any kind of [00:16:00] physical fights with siblings. It was always yelling, you know, that kind of thing. So having that experience, but now learning, what you’ve gone through, what you’ve done and how now, you know, I can control myself.

[00:16:15] I can maybe change the outcome of a situation that I find myself in and that kind of I think a little bit more security that, you’ve got those options. that you can get yourself out of a situation, hopefully. And so I think that’s a great reminder. If somebody is considering some self defense or something like this, Aikido as an option.

[00:16:42] Yes. If that’s going to help you feel a little bit more like you can get out in the world, because again, as you said, we can’t control everything and we sometimes find ourselves in environments that are not safe, but this gives us. Maybe a little bit of a chance [00:17:00] because we’ve got some skills. Right.

[00:17:02] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah. 

[00:17:03] Desiree Stanley: So I think that’s awesome. 

[00:17:05] Cheryl Whitelaw: And just, for me, the kind of alchemical bit in all of this is how we use our awareness and our attention and, you know, what’s been far more valuable to me than any kind of techniques I’ve learned is being able to have a certain quality of awareness.

[00:17:22] So I notice the person over there, or the, you know, there’s a voice down the street that I’m not sure about the tone, and so it doesn’t mean I go into a fight mode, but it means I pay attention and notice what’s going on. That kind of advanced you know, alert system so many people they walked on the street, they’re looking at their phones, they have no they’re so unplugged for their environment there’s just no way that they, even if they had mad skills, they wouldn’t notice the situation until they literally walk into it.

[00:17:56] So it’s again, like cultivating this sort of [00:18:00] whole person intelligence and then just letting that be active. In your day, you know, paying attention, just even driving, noticing potential risks. It doesn’t have to be some kind of assailant intending to harm. It could just be a car.

[00:18:14] That’s cruising through a bit of a light as it turns red and noticing that as a potential risk. So you could choose a response rather than realize. Oh, it’s too late. 

[00:18:25] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Great point. Another great point. Thank you for sharing that too, because I think that it. Is really happening more frequently because of everybody being, you know, looking at their phones that we’re not paying attention to our environment.

[00:18:39] And even just that awareness in general makes a difference. And so another great point. So thanks for reiterating that let’s talk now a little bit about the functional movement side. And so I know with Aikido, there’s physical movements that you’re doing, but so how is this playing [00:19:00] into functional movement?

[00:19:01] And is it, is it separate? 

[00:19:04] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, and for sure I definitely have this kind of lens now that I see all movement in terms of function. And so what does that mean? And, you know, it starts really with a question of how do we learn to move and how do we know when it’s good enough? Right. Like I think about, if you’ve had kids and the whole process of they learn to have the cup.

[00:19:28] Yeah. And they learn to bring it to their mouth. There’s a lot of spilling there. You know, the sippy cup was literally like, the best invention ever, right? Because literally they’re learning that movement pathway to do it. And then they have to do it enough that they get, pretty effective with it and efficient.

[00:19:46] And generally we learn most of the movements that we need in a sort of day to day way in somewhere other, you know, as we come up into adulthood. We tend to put sports and dance and [00:20:00] those sorts of things to one side, often because there’s a longer training period. You know, we don’t acquire the skills to play basketball unless we grow up in a family that plays basketball.

[00:20:11] So there’s a training in terms of the performance of specific movement skills. But when I look at all of them, I tend to ask questions like for what someone’s wanting to do in the environment that they’re doing it, is it functional? Is it happening? And how costly is it?

[00:20:32] We could see in, you know, high level of sports, the degree of training, the amount of work that an athlete does to really create like the most optimized performance for their body. It’s a costly endeavor. there’s a lot that supports them, you know, in terms of maintaining their body, for nutrition, massage, like cold baths, like a whole gamut of strategies because of how [00:21:00] much they’re asking for their body.

[00:21:01] They need that kind of high level of support. And for many athletes, there is a kind of end date. Right, we’ve seen, there’s a great documentary right now called Nyad about a woman who swam between Cuba and Florida in her 60s, you know, and so she blew open those expectations, and I think we’re seeing more and more of that, but part of it is because I think people are increasingly learning, how do I move efficiently?

[00:21:28] Effectively using myself in ways that create the kind of power or speed or, you know, whatever quality that you’re looking for. If it’s a dancer, it could be about grace and fluidity in a way that you’re using all of yourself really well. I often am seeing clients that sort of hit mid age and the way they’ve been doing what they’re doing, something’s starting to wear out.

[00:21:55] And people tend to blame, oh, my knee and it’s no good. I look at what they’re [00:22:00] doing to see what’s happening such that your poor left knee is getting blamed for it, right? Is taking the brunt, something else isn’t working, something else isn’t working together. So it’s really looking at the whole person to say, how are they moving in the field of gravity?

[00:22:17] With the support of the ground, and how can we improve and refine the quality of that experience so that it costs less, it feels easier you know, one of the touchstones I have being trained as a Feldenkrais practitioner, is it reversible, meaning have I committed everything, and so I can’t reverse it, because a high quality mover and martial artists often have this quality, they can reverse and turn to attend to somebody else, you know, in a instant.

[00:22:50] And we don’t tend to bring those sort of tests to the basics of like, how I mow my lawn or how, you know, how I play a soccer game or even how I [00:23:00] go on a hike. We don’t bring those side of way of looking at movement into our everyday functional movement and some sometimes into sports as well.

[00:23:09] There’s a focus on the outcome, the performance and the training, but maybe not so much on the process of how they’ve gotten there. And, you know, and that often can mean injuries or, other kinds of prices to pay at the end of a athletic career. 

[00:23:25] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s so interesting, Cheryl. Thank you for sharing that with us.

[00:23:29] And it sparked something, the thought when you were discussing the issue with the knee, per se. But you So many of us are sitting so much, and I know that, wreaks havoc on the body because that’s not how our body was designed or intended to be all day, just sitting in a chair at a desk.

[00:23:50] And so I don’t know if we want to touch on this and how we can maybe counteract some of that long time [00:24:00] sitting and see if we can maybe share something with the listeners that could be helpful. But, also, what you mentioned about the movement and turning quickly in a direction. It also made me think about just even emptying the dishwasher, you know, bending down, standing up, twisting, turning, reaching.

[00:24:17] All of these things are Or what we do on a daily basis, but as we age, those things become more difficult because we’re not really working our body optimally to continue those movements, right? 

[00:24:32] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah. And I, I have an online course called sitting is the new smoking and it’s, you know, looking at I have this too, as much as I move and work with clients, I’m sitting in front of the computer for hours every day.

[00:24:45] Because this is a huge work environment that we’re all involved in. And so, I would never say to someone, so you shouldn’t do that. You know, even the standing desk and the treadmill, that, that’s great. But there is a reality to how our work [00:25:00] is, you know, work environment is conceived that we do it for many hours at a time.

[00:25:04] We do it every day. So, you know, I look at that and say, so how do we make that more functional? And what’s dysfunctional about sitting in the computer position, like I literally just worked with a client earlier who year end, you know, like totally and it was killer. So it’s like, how do we make that more functional in terms of both how she moves and the posture and the duration?

[00:25:27] So, you know, I tend to look at things like what makes sitting dynamic, right? The problem isn’t how we sit necessarily, it’s how long. And then the small things of posture, like I, I call it the computer hunch. It sets up a requirement in our body to hold our head up, use muscles in a way that they’re not really designed to be used.

[00:25:51] And then we do that for several hours. So how do we find efficiencies about that? The easiest way that I often start with people [00:26:00] is literally just to locate the bottom of their pelvis. So it’s the bumpy parts. If you feel up under your own personal bottom, right, you can feel two little, two little bumps and to relocate that on your chair so that you can find a place of where it feels like you’re centered over them, where we’re so used to either being forward or to slumping back, we lose track of that, like it’s literally a core tripod of our you know, bony pelvis, that if we could sit from there comfortably, a whole bunch of work disappears, because your spine that is doing what it needs to, and as long as you can reach the keyboard, you don’t have to distort that line.

[00:26:42] So I’m not actually an advocate to having like perfect posture, because we can’t keep that up either. But, you know, these small sort of differences that make a huge difference, how do you find them? And then I’m a big fan of the tiny practice or the pocket practice you know, [00:27:00] so I’ve just been working for an hour in the report.

[00:27:02] What pocket practice do I need right now to bring me out of work mode and bring me back into a whole Breathing living person that needs a little bit of movement Because I may not be able to get up and take a walk for half an hour if I can great that’s awesome, but it’s part of the reality of our work environment Let’s make it functional by making sitting a more dynamic experience, and I’m also a fan of chair dancing So that’s you know You can also just get your little boogie on, you know, to give yourself a bit of a movement break as you’re sitting.

[00:27:36] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s, that’s fun. I love that. So thank you for sharing that. And the chair dancing. That’s awesome. But what you were talking about with just those micro movements and for those who are listening, maybe not watching on YouTube, you know, you’re talking about adjusting your shoulders. And sitting a little, maybe a little bit taller and then feeling those bones, you know, so that [00:28:00] you’re just making these micro adjustments and the difference that can make sounds like it’s huge over time, right?

[00:28:09] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah. Yeah. As we’re, you know, have gone through a process of the efficiencies that go from incandescent light bulbs to like LEDs. You know, it’s a pretty good analogy that when you’re able to rely on your skeleton to do that sort of core supportive work of, sitting upright or standing, then your muscles are freer to move you, but also the postural muscles are freer to just do what they do.

[00:28:40] Like they keep you upright in the field of gravity. And so it literally creates a freer movement that takes less energy you know, and less creates less inflammation. There’s a whole cascade of things that don’t happen because you’re just working less, but you’re working all together. Like I always say, if [00:29:00] all of you is working together.

[00:29:01] In a way that’s well coordinated or well organized. It takes an LED light to send you somewhere rather than a big, you know, beam. We’re so used to the idea that it has to it takes effort and we need to work hard. It’s like we do at some things, but movement, you know, in terms of our day to day function, there’s a lot of ease that we overlook because we’re hooked on this idea that somehow it needs to be hard or we have to try rather than doing the work to find the place of easy and then move from there and get used to that feeling, right?

[00:29:39] It’s actually quite joyful and pleasurable. To move in easy ways and you know, as kids, maybe we knew it, but as adults, we got serious and we forgot it. 

[00:29:49] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, as so often happens as we grow up and are face with realities, right? We lose so much of the joy and the laughter and the play [00:30:00] that kids just naturally have.

[00:30:02] We can bring those things back. So let’s remember that if we choose to. And I love that you said that these things can be easy. They don’t need to be hard. When you’re talking about making some of these adjustments and really we like easy. Most of the time we want easy. So if we remember that these things can be easy, then they should be easy to do. Right? 

[00:30:26] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, that’s right. There can be work in finding them in associating with them. You know, the kinds of work I did today with a client. I’ve had several women talk about early influences and posture about what you’re supposed to do with your chest.

[00:30:41] Like either, you know, you’re supposed to be modest or you’re supposed to sit up straight. And both of those early messages have changed habits about where shoulders are compared to ears compared to your chest. And so really, you know, they can become so familiar. That the hard seems right,[00:31:00] so it is this kind of discovery of self that opens up, like how is it easier to have a kind of relationship between shoulders and hips and you know, how your chest is open.

[00:31:13] That again, isn’t about being perfect, but it starts to have a feeling of openness and the ability to move and turn. That once you’ve discovered that again. It’s a much easier option. So when you find yourself exerting a ton of effort, you can go wait. Actually, let’s back up.

[00:31:31] I can do it from here and it’s much easier. 

[00:31:34] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, great point. Thank you for expanding on that a little bit. I think that’s. It’s very helpful information for us to remember. So thank you. And I want to talk a little bit about something that you share a lot, and that’s how we can fully live and I’m trying to remember how you say living verbs.

[00:31:54] And so let’s talk about that. It’s thinking, feeling, sensing, and moving. And we did [00:32:00] just briefly mention it at the beginning, but let’s talk a little bit more deeply about what that means. 

[00:32:06] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, it’s, it feels like whenever I talk about it, I always, there’s a little voice that says, you know, this is so basic, right?

[00:32:13] But we’ve developed a world that has taken us away from verbs into nouns. So you think about when I introduce myself, what do I say? Oh, I’m a noun. You know, I’m a functional movement specialist. I don’t say I’m a dancing. I’m a breathing, I’m a laughing, I’m a play, like we, we literally don’t identify with our verbs.

[00:32:38] And as occasionally when I’ve done facilitations, I’ll do that as an icebreaker. Give me a noun, but you also have to give me three verbs that introduce you. And often people can’t like they laugh it’s, you know, because we’re so identified with the label that we call ourselves, which is usually a noun.

[00:32:56] And so in that case, we become a [00:33:00] small, like I say, we’re a small distance from ourselves because we become this abstraction of my labels and this is who I am. What I like about going into the verbs and the, these four verbs, thinking, feeling, sensing, and moving again are coming from Moshe Feldenkrais’s work about what makes for a sort of fully lived.

[00:33:22] Human being and it relates to in our current world. We might be thinking, you know, we might be sensing in terms of seeing a screen, seeing a cell phone, you know, whatever. But I often find like when people come to see me, they may have two out of the four kind of active in their life that there’s something about how we’ve related to technology.

[00:33:48] Our indoor environments that often I find sensory qualities, like how smooth how much pressure, you know, what kind of texture do we sense? [00:34:00] Is it hot? How hot? Is it like all of that sensory experience, which are our bodies, our nervous system are, you know, every moment we’re receiving sensory information.

[00:34:11] But somehow, we’ve taken this, in this nouning of ourselves, we don’t really acknowledge sensory other than extreme events like the stove is hot or I, agreed to do a New Year’s Day plunge in the ocean in Canada, so, you know, called with another adjective, with that you know, so, we tend to do peak events, but we don’t especially as we age, if we don’t explore sensory experience, our body works on demand, you know, this is the nature of the neuroplastic brain, like we if we use it, we keep it, if we don’t use it we lose those connections.

[00:34:50] And so, you know, our capacity to sense can recede, not because we can’t, but it’s because we don’t. And so I, I had an experience, in my [00:35:00] Feldenkrais training. I have an older home, wooden floors, there’s wood grain, and I went through three days of thinking I was stepping on a post it note, you know, because it felt like there was something on my foot, and I’d lift my foot, there’s nothing on my foot.

[00:35:14] thinking I’m going just a little bit crazy. And then by day three, I realized I was feeling the grain texture in my floor in the same way I would with my hands that I’d done enough somatic work that some of those sensory receptors turned on again. And I could perceive more and, you know, it only took me three days, right, to, to figure that out but it was a great lesson in you know, we walk in shoes, we walk on flat floors.

[00:35:46] We don’t give our feet anything interesting to do often, unless we can get out to the beach or we, you know, walk barefoot in the lawn or whatever. And so we literally can lose sensation and we don’t know it’s gone.[00:36:00] So, think about if you’ve ever done an experiment like, sometimes they do this to experience aging, where you have glasses with a very thin window and you have big cottony gloves on and other sorts of things that sort of dampen what you can feel.

[00:36:16] We take for granted and then we start to lose that sometimes at middle age. The beauty of the neuroplastic brain is we can turn that back on and reacquaint ourselves with sensing. But it’s one of those things that, you know, think about how balance works. If you actually can’t feel the floor clearly, or you can’t tell, am I on the edges of my toes or the ball of my foot, like it starts to become a real impact.

[00:36:44] Cheryl Whitelaw: Not knowing when I’m close to the edge of tipping, and so this was one of the things I focused on early in my practice because it makes a big difference, you know, falls, even at midlife, can change the trajectory of like how the quality of your [00:37:00] health, the quality of what you can do even in your fifties, so it felt like a really good place to bring sensing back into the pool.

[00:37:10] That has to change your thinking, right? Once you’re savoring, really perceiving your experience, it’s more information. It broadens what you’re thinking about rather than rattling around in your skull sized kingdom with, you know, whatever you’re thinking. You’re getting new inputs that matter, that, that make a difference to change how you’re seeing yourself, how you’re seeing the world.

[00:37:34] And then the base of that movement, we do have a pretty sedentary life and so it, it changes how we understand ourselves and our environment. If we never get out for a walk. I’m really conscious right now, big snowstorm where I live today. And so going outside is it’s cold, it’s windy, it’s but we really start to lose connection with people beyond [00:38:00] ourselves, with the environment, with, you know, everything around us.

[00:38:04] So it changes who we are when we don’t live fully from these four verbs. And you know, I appreciate Moshe Feldenkrais’s work because he really, gave a fresh way to look at how we can reacquire that well before there was even a word for the neuroplastic nature of the brain. And it’s our birthright, it’s available for all of us.

[00:38:28] Desiree Stanley: Excellent stuff, Cheryl. Thank you. I found that so fascinating and my couple of other podcast episodes, we’ve talked about neuroplasticity. So again, I’m going to tell the listeners, go do some research on that cause it’s fantastic. But I love what you’re talking about. First of all I so relate to the nouning and how we really just describe ourselves in nouns.

[00:38:55] So I totally can relate to that. But I want to talk about[00:39:00] how we can begin. Because it’s so important. What you were describing about not feeling our feet on the floor, not recognizing. Are we on our toes? Are we getting ready to tip or fall? Because especially as we’re getting older, this becomes a big issue.

[00:39:18] So what can we do to begin to bring that you know, sensory back in, like you were motioning with your hands. There’s a big cotton thing over your hands so that you lose that sensation of touch in your fingers. So what are things that we maybe can do to work on not losing those things? 

[00:39:38] Or bringing them back.

[00:39:40] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, I’m a big fan of even though I, teach a class and there’s many awareness through movement is the brand name of classes in the world that, you know, are designed to do that work. I’m a big fan of it tends to be only an hour a week or whatever people put into it, so there’s all this other time to practice things like, you know, [00:40:00] when you peel your orange, in the morning, how much do you attend to the feel of the rind?

[00:40:07] How much pressure do you need to get that first cut in so you can start peeling, the smell of it, the weight of it. I play, you know, often game when I’m shopping is like, how well can I feel the comparative weight of oranges, for a juiciness factor. Any, anybody who shops knows that, but it’s a practical way to bring that sensory experience right front and center into the process of eating an orange and to really, you know, feel like how does the texture and the slidiness inside of your mouth, you know, happen as saliva develops, as you’re chewing, we tend to be so golden to know, get to eat well, get to eat the orange.

[00:40:49] Put the orange in and it’s over. Right? And it’s like there’s all of this you know, the word savor, but I would say just a more naive sense of like, [00:41:00] all of those pieces have a sensory component. Can we open ourselves and our awareness? To just noticing it, because it literally, that’s the secret sauce.

[00:41:11] If we pay attention enough to notice it, it becomes something in our brain. At least chemically, if we do that over and over, it becomes structurally wired in our brain. And, it could say, well, I don’t really want to be a master orange appreciator. That’s not really a noun that I’m going for.

[00:41:32] I can say for myself, like at 46, I was not a martial artist. I started a martial art, many times thought, what am I doing here? There was a few skills I was, you know, really bad at, like rolling and I was dizzy. But there’s this thing with when you keep moving, when you keep doing something.

[00:41:50] At a certain point it does, you do become that noun, you become the person who does do Aikido or the person who gardens or can [00:42:00] walk or hike or whatever, you know, the thing that you think, oh, I can’t do that now, it is literally the possibility that takes us there, but we have to continually move, you And sense and feel and think for us to become this thing that today I might say, you know, I can’t do that.

[00:42:18] It’s not who I am and it’s like that’s a story and that may be true for historical movement, but it doesn’t mean it predicts the possibility in the future. 

[00:42:28] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, excellent point. Love that. And I think that when you’re talking about the orange and peeling the orange and, you know, no, maybe every day we don’t have time to stop and look at every action that we’re taking.

[00:42:43] However. Remembering to be in the present is such a great point with whatever you’re doing, because the present is all that we have, right? The present now is our life. And so we forget[00:43:00] and are so future oriented or goal oriented, like you said but. Stopping to feel the orange in your hand and feel that peel as it’s going and smelling the smell of the orange citrus, which you immediately are hit with, I think that it’s so great to remember to take time to do that and that it can help your brain is even better.

[00:43:25] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, that’s right. Things often taste better on vacation. Usually it’s because we’ve slowed down to actually notice and enjoy, you know, like we, we don’t have to go away somewhere to make that happen, but we often wait until we have time to go away on a break to, you know, engage in that kind of slower more awareness, more attending kind of presence.

[00:43:50] Desiree Stanley: Well, Cheryl, I have really enjoyed our conversation and it’s so interesting to me at this concept of the functional movement. And [00:44:00] I feel like each of us really can take the points that we have discussed and make small changes in the In what we’re doing in our daily lives. I think it’s super easy to do that.

[00:44:14] And so thank you for sharing these with us so that we can begin to improve on what we’re doing in our lives. So I think that’s awesome. And I thank you for sharing that. You’ve mentioned a couple of times a particular training that you are. And I don’t know the name exactly. 

[00:44:32] Cheryl Whitelaw: So, yeah, it’s, yeah it’s a person’s name.

[00:44:36] It’s called Feldenkrais. So and yes, it’s his name Moshe Feldenkrais, it’s a learning method that uses movement to improve how the brain and body move and function together. So it’s quite an interesting way to look at the world. But it’s a method like often people, you know, use it to improve their [00:45:00] movement, but it’s been applied to artistic methods.

[00:45:03] I’ve learned business and entrepreneurial you know, concepts through the Feldenkrais method. There’s lots of places that you can apply it. He picked movement because it’s so concrete, right? You can tell when something’s changed in your movement, and it was an easy feedback loop to work with.

[00:45:24] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, I will for sure include his information in the show notes so the listeners can take a look at that because I think that’s fantastic. If it’s applicable in so many realms, you know, anybody could find that book, pick it up and get something from it. So thank you for sharing that. Is there any other books that you have found beneficial that you’d like to share with us now?

[00:45:48] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, there’s a couple, when I think about something that’s really accessible, really relatable, I actually pulled it off my bookshelf. It’s called Playing with Movement by Todd Hargrove, and he does a great [00:46:00] job of really just going into that era of performance and breaking it apart into the kind of chunks, you know, very similar to what We’ve been talking about today.

[00:46:10] He’s not coming from my particular background, but I find he really, you know, speaks about in a way that is helpful for people to pick up a new perspective. The other one that I really like in terms of brain plasticity is The Brain That Changes Itself by Dr. Norman Dodge.

[00:46:27] You’ve probably encountered this. If you’ve talked about it before, he is a Canadian researcher. But he’s really trying to help, you know, through his role and sharing research and stories to say what’s the next frontier about how we can make this plastic nature of our brain improve things for us, whether it’s in the context of diseases that are deemed incurable or just improving how we live our lives.

[00:46:56] Desiree Stanley: Excellent recommendations. Thank you for that. And I’ll include those as [00:47:00] well in the show notes. And do you listen to other podcasts? Do you enjoy listening to podcasts? Is there any that you’d like to suggest? 

[00:47:07] Cheryl Whitelaw: Yeah, I do. And, I certainly listen to ones that are probably better known. I always like to mention ones that maybe aren’t quite as well known.

[00:47:15] So really discovered last year, a great one. It’s called The Unlearning Podcast with Christina Jones. Unlearning, but spelled like U N L three at R N I N G, probably because, you know, it was already taken. She really has a great perspective about. When you’re learning something like what do you have to unlearn and what happens in that process?

[00:47:39] I really appreciate her perspective on that Also really enjoyed Your Guided Health Journey with Melissa Dealy. She’s looking a lot at nutrition and sort of other ways to work with the body but from again this kind of whole person, [00:48:00] whole self kind of approach, which is just you know, once you get a taste for working in that way, rather than, oh, this piece and that piece you always, light up when you find other people speaking from the same songbook.

[00:48:13] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Great recommendations as well. So thank you for sharing those. Again, Cheryl, I have truly enjoyed our conversation. It’s so fascinating to me. I love the idea of you know, whole body, really, when you’re talking about mind, body and spirit I think it’s fantastic. And I love that you’re just sharing this with as many people as possible.

[00:48:37] And the work that you’re doing, I think is important. So thank you for that. And thank you again for coming on the show and sharing this with us. I appreciate it. 

[00:48:46] Cheryl Whitelaw: Oh, thanks, Desiree. It was really my pleasure. And I would say right back at you, thanks for really trying to get quality knowledge out to people so that they can, you know, improve things for themselves.

[00:48:58] And it’s a good mission. [00:49:00] Keep it up. 

[00:49:01] Desiree Stanley: Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:49:05] Cheryl Whitelaw: Okay. Take care.

[00:49:07] Desiree Stanley: if you have questions or want to learn more about Cheryl and what she’s doing. Or follow along on her journey. Or just want to learn more about functional movement. Check out her website at http://www.Peaceandpower.ca. Her email is cheryl@kindpower.ca. And she can also be found on Instagram at Cherylkindpower.

[00:49:25] Thank you dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:49:45] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Janette Dalgliesh Podcast part 2_01_24_2024
[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome back dear listeners to another captivating installment of Pockets of Knowledge. Last week, we embarked on a thought provoking journey with my guests, Janette Dalgliesh. And she was delving into the intricacies of fixing the wiring in our heads. And also embracing the transformative power of healing and growth. If you thought that part one was enlightening you’re in for a treat today in part two, Janette continues to unravel the profound insights into the intricacies of repairing the mental pathways that shape our perceptions. Get ready to explore the depths of imposter syndrome, as well as Janette’s take on the subject. Plus how we can foster personal development and embrace positive change. So grab your metaphorical toolkits and join us as we continue this exploration of knowledge, and self-discovery. Janette Dalgliesh’s insights are sure to inspire and empower you. Without further ado, let’s dive into part two of this enlightening conversation on Pockets of Knowledge. 

[00:00:56] I want to talk now a little bit about something that you [00:01:00] call acquired brain misery. And so tell us what that is, what that means and how that came to be.

[00:01:07] What brought that to you that you started sharing. 

[00:01:11] Janette Dalgliesh: Well, the phrase itself came about really as an expression of what we were talking about earlier, this idea that it’s not my fault and it’s not a character flaw. This is a natural, so using the example of I’m not lovable, when somebody finds themselves screwing up a relationship in order to make sure that they get to leave first or whatever that is a really, it’s a natural neurological result of the stuff that was installed in them early on.

[00:01:41] So that might be something that they learned in childhood, that you’re not a lovable child and you know, for whatever reason That is that misery that lives in their brain. It’s acquired. It’s not innate. It’s not born in them. It’s not inherent. It’s not one of the things that you brought with you to the planet.[00:02:00] 

[00:02:00] None of us bring any of that nonsense to the planet, to the, to our lives. We, you know, babies don’t start out feeling unlovable. They start out fully. They start out feeling completely worthy. They have no hesitation, knowing what they want, demanding it, and when it comes, receiving it. The three basic things, I know what I want, I know how to demand it, and I know how to receive it.

[00:02:25] Babies do that completely effortlessly. Everything that we, everything that becomes a barrier to our empowerment and our authentic life is acquired. And the reason that I call it that I started using that phrase was because I think it was as an antidote to the number of people that I worked with who either hadn’t had a lot of experience being coached or had read a lot of self help books and how often people would come to me and say, I have this thing wrong with me.

[00:02:57] I’ve actually had people say, you might not want to coach me [00:03:00] because I’m such a mess. And it’s you are not a mess. There might be a mess in your head, but that’s not who you are. That mess in your head is acquired brain misery. So in the same way that we talk about, we know that an acquired brain injury can alter behavior.

[00:03:17] It can affect personality. Acquired brain misery can do the same thing. It can, whether it’s acquired through systemic Cultural training, the ancestral rules of behavior, the stuff that you learn from family, or whether it’s acquired through trauma, all of it is acquired. It’s not innate to who you are. And that’s the core of that concept and why I use that terminology.

[00:03:45] Desiree Stanley: Oh, excellent. Thank you for explaining that. And it really is such a great reminder too that. We, like you said, we didn’t come here with this. A lot of this was just [00:04:00] put on as we were growing up in whatever environment, you know, that may be for each person who is listening, we all have had our own experiences.

[00:04:10] And so it’s such a great. And I think that’s a really important thing to, to keep in mind. Yes. That is the case. And I love what you said about, the person who said, I’m a mess. And it’s no let’s think about this again. You’re not a mess. The situations may be a mess or what’s happening, may be a mess or what’s going on in your thoughts may be a mess.

[00:04:30] And so I think, again, that is such a great point to remember is that we are good people, or, we’re not a mess. We’re not, you know, bad or whatever judgment we’re placing on ourselves. A situation may be, a thought may be, our thoughts, plural, may be. Great reminder. 

[00:04:49] Janette Dalgliesh: Yeah, and I think this is another, I remember talking to a colleague once, and it was the first time I heard she use the term thought error.

[00:04:57] It was the first time I’d heard the term, and I [00:05:00] was I really didn’t like it. I didn’t, and it took me a little while to figure out why I didn’t like it. And it was because I took it on board because of my own programming. I took it on board as you’re thinking the wrong thought. So you’re a bad girl.

[00:05:15] And I thought, wow, isn’t that interesting how so this awareness of , this idea that our emotional responses to situations or to something someone has said, it doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with me that I had a reaction to that. It doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with her either, or the phrase itself, but it’s an opportunity for me to.

[00:05:39] Explore what’s going on there. What was the programming that was triggered by that phrase? I still don’t love the phrase I have to say, because I think a lot of us do take it on board as a kind of because I’m on such a mission to say. Don’t use shame and guilt and criticism as a motivator for change.

[00:05:57] It doesn’t work. And I think that [00:06:00] when we use words, terms like thought error, it can easily trigger that sense of, Oh, I’m now I’m a bad girl and I’m in trouble. But I think it’s also a really interesting moment to say. I noticed this in myself. I wonder which part of the acquired brain misery that is at play there, because I know it’s not me.

[00:06:19] I know it’s something that’s been installed in me. Yeah. 

[00:06:22] Desiree Stanley: Interesting what you just shared. And I’m going to say, because the idea for me of thought error is almost like, Course correction. So to me, it didn’t have a negative necessarily. It was just there was an error in the thought like there was error in the coding or you know, whatever.

[00:06:42] It’s like it’s just needs to be a course correction. And so it didn’t have any negative. You know, meaning to me, but so it’s really fascinating how somebody else that may bring, it may spark something that to them, they just go Oh, I’ve done something wrong or I’m bad or whatever the case may be.

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] So very interesting. 

[00:07:02] Janette Dalgliesh: It is. And I was being coached by a mentor, coached by me a few years ago. And she said you’re good. Because one of the things that we know about how the brain works is our entire experience of reality is constructed by the brain. So as I’m sitting here looking at my computer and seeing you through zoom, I’m not really seeing that what I’m perceiving is a model of that, that my brain has made.

[00:07:26] In my head. This is part of how the brain functions. And so when this coach said to me, you know, your whole sense of reality is constructed by the brain and you’re inside that story. So when there is a coding error, you can’t necessarily see it for yourself. That’s why that’s one of the reasons that we hire coaches and that we read books is to get that outside perspective that says, I can see a pattern here.

[00:07:54] That we can’t necessarily see when we’re inside it. So it’s really interesting to me that that [00:08:00] when we, when I think about a coding error, that’s completely neutral to me. That’s a completely neutral feeling. And yet in that particular situation, it may have also been, I have to say, it may also have been that the coach had dismissed something I was feeling as, oh, well, that’s just a thought error.

[00:08:18] So I think when we add that clumsiness about being dismissed. I think that was probably a part of it for me as well. 

[00:08:25] Desiree Stanley: Oh yeah, for sure. I 

[00:08:26] Janette Dalgliesh: can see, yeah, exactly. And I think that curiosity, having that compassionate curiosity for, I wonder why I reacted that way. I think that’s a hugely beneficial way to do it.

[00:08:39] And that’s where this idea of acquired brain misery can be really helpful because it’s like, Oh, that’s interesting. There may be something there that’s installed in my head that has created this reaction in me. That’s not innate to me. I wonder what it is. 

[00:08:55] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love that point about the curiosity, remaining [00:09:00] curious.

[00:09:00] Why did I react this way? What happened inside me? Right. Because we notice these things and we’ve talked about this on the show before. Physically, we have reactions to things or, we immediately, you know, want to lash out or whatever. And so being curious about what is happening, why am I having this reaction?

[00:09:19] What could have been there from before that’s causing me now to do this, whatever this is. 

[00:09:27] Janette Dalgliesh: Yeah. And I think this is also where it can be really helpful. This is where my activism, my political activism has married with the coaching stuff is that I’m, and I have to acknowledge my diversity coach Yabo Onopedi, who is the most remarkable woman.

[00:09:44] She teaches anti racism. She’s based in the US, but she’s from Nigeria. Working with her on, because she’s been a friend for a long time and I initially hired her to improve my own work around diversity and inclusivity because I was [00:10:00] born, I will say to people quite happily, I was born a white woman in a system predicated on white supremacist thinking, the thinking that white people know better, but I was also born English.

[00:10:11] I’m Australian now, but I was born in England in a culture that said the British empire with growing up with a grandmother who said the British empire was the best thing to happen to the world. I totally know that to not be true, but I was immersed in that culture. So I have a lot of unconscious biases in my head that come from white supremacy thinking.

[00:10:32] And I wanted to, I needed to hire someone to help me uninstall that. And I will say it’s going to be a work in progress. But one of the things I realized as a consequence of working with Yabo was that the same things that I experienced and that I understood about myself in that context, in that specific context of being a white woman growing up in a white supremacist system where the foundations are based in that concept that white people know better. That [00:11:00] then mapped onto so many of the other things. So I started to see how women’s responses to certain things were largely installed by the system of patriarchy. And I will say the system of patriarchy is really damaging to men and boys as well.

[00:11:20] I’m not here to bash men or to say that men and boys are at fault here, but the system has been devastatingly bad for all of us. It’s not good for any of us. The damage it did to women is different from the damage it did to men and boys. And that has now fed back into my work so that it’s now much easier to be able to say to a client who’s a woman, this thing that you’re experiencing, I can absolutely point to where it is not your fault. So can we now drop all the shame and guilt around it and just focus on cleaning up the mess that they, not they, as in individual [00:12:00] people, but the system, clean up the mess that the system made. That becomes much, a much easier process to undertake when we can separate out.

[00:12:12] It comes back to that same point when we can say, it’s not my fault. It’s not a character flaw. This is just something that got installed in me and not necessarily on purpose. There are vested interests that would like to keep it there. So this may be an ongoing thing because. That messaging from those systems didn’t just happen back in the past.

[00:12:33] It’s still with us loud and clear. There’s a sort of an ongoing aspect to this as well. How do I inoculate myself? But I think that, this gives us a really strong. A really strong foundation for change and empowerment, particularly for those of us, for any of us who belong to a historically marginalized population.

[00:12:58] And that’s [00:13:00] a large proportion of the planet, let’s face it. It’s really interesting to circle back around and see, you know, your questions are helping me to see how this weaving together of the activism and the coaching, they’re inseparable. 

[00:13:16] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And thank you for sharing that with us.

[00:13:18] The work that you’re doing with trying to heal the systems that were installed over eons really, the patriarchy, yeah, the white supremacist, you know, thought, idea that, they know best. I think that’s amazing, the work that you’re doing and also not only on yourself, but in the community and with the people that you work with. Right. 

[00:13:45] Janette Dalgliesh: Thank you. 

[00:13:47] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, it’s incredibly important. And I think that, you know, I have Children who are young adults now and are absolutely head butting the systems you know, on a daily [00:14:00] basis. And so I know they’ve got their work cut out for them because this has been ongoing for so long.

[00:14:06] It’s going to take a long time to make any progress. So thank you for what you’re doing this It’s important. 

[00:14:12] Janette Dalgliesh: Oh, well and I just want to say my heart to your kids, cause every time I hear about and see young people who are doing this work, it just fills me with such joy to know that they shouldn’t have to clean up such a mess, but I think they’re going to do it really well.

[00:14:30] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, they have had this put on them and yeah, and now they do have to take that kind of responsibility for cleaning it up. And it really isn’t their mess to clean up. But unfortunately, this is the situation. And yeah, it’s going to be a lot of work. And but I think that they are up for the task.

[00:14:49] I think that a lot of the kids that we see, you know, coming up now are really. Not they’re not accepting what’s happened in the past. They’re not taking it. They [00:15:00] don’t agree with it. They’re not going to allow it anymore. And so I think that’s awesome. And I’m just like, yes, okay. Well, not to get too far off topic.

[00:15:09] That’s, it certainly is important, but I want to talk a little bit more about some things that you’re working on with your clients and what you share with really the public and that’s, well, first of all, a couple of things. Firstly, you’ve got an imposter syndrome busting workshop that’s free that I want you to share.

[00:15:28] But also, how can we what you say, break out and master YES. And so let’s talk about that to begin. 

[00:15:37] Janette Dalgliesh: Okay. So YES, it’s actually, I use that as an acronym for your everyday superpower. So your everyday superpower is this phenomenon of neuroplasticity, of the ability as the owner operator of your own brain to be able to make changes to it.

[00:15:55] And again, the system would have you think that you are helpless and [00:16:00] that you can’t change. And we know that’s not true. We can call BS on that. The other thing that we haven’t really talked about, the other aspect of my work that I think is another element to this everyday superpower is our connection to the non physical.

[00:16:16] So I spent some years training in astrology. And I discovered that I didn’t love doing astrological readings because very often people would come to me and hand over their power to the system again. Whether it’s, and I think this happens a lot, whether it’s astrology, human design, any of those kinds of systems where people go, tell me what to do.

[00:16:36] It’s no, I want you to know what you want to do. And then we can use the system to help you streamline how to do it best for you. I don’t really work with astrology anymore, but what I do work with is the idea of planetary magic, planetary allies. And the reason that this weaves in nicely is Carl Jung talked about the idea that the astrology [00:17:00] was how the ancients understood human psychology.

[00:17:03] So he did a lot of work looking at archetypes and many of us are familiar with the concept of archetypes. You know, the inner child, the lost prince, et cetera, et cetera. The hero’s journey. Joseph Campbell then took that work further and he ended up, we see it in the original Star Wars movies, for example, he helped co write the first one.

[00:17:22] So there’s this wonderful thread that goes through everything of these, this idea of archetypes and how those link back. To the planetary allies that we can work with. And what I’m really interested in is what happens to each of those planetary allies. When we strip away the patriarchy, we strip away some of the stuff that because the Greeks were an amazingly patriarchal culture.

[00:17:50] Women were chattels. You were owned by your father and then you were owned by your husband and there was no power at all. You didn’t have political power of any kind.[00:18:00] When you take a character from those planetary allies, such as, for example, you take the character of Mars, and you strip away the idea of that military conquest is a virtue, or that imperialism is the way to go.

[00:18:18] Suddenly what you’re left with this God of War, which we could avert our gaze and go, Oh, I don’t really want to look at that. That’s violent and brutal and aggressive. But if you strip away that imperialistic dimension, what you’re left with is this kind of noble warrior energy. And now we can go, Oh, wait a minute.

[00:18:38] This is like the Robin Hood. This is Harriet Tubman. This is the part of me that gets up, takes action. Even when I’m scared, it’s where I tap into my courage. So that’s become woven in. When I talk about your everyday superpower, it’s this blend of the neuroplasticity that we’ve talked about, and the idea that we [00:19:00] can have these ally ships with these planetary allies.

[00:19:04] And I don’t care whether you see it as a distinct, discreet, independent, planetary, literal planetary spirit or whether you see it as an aspect of your own psyche. Mars can represent the aspect of my psyche that gets me to do uncomfortable things. That gets me doing the trailblazing work.

[00:19:28] That gets me putting out an opinion that people might disagree with. That gets me ready to say something on social media for which I might get trolled. That gets me able to participate in a political campaign where I know I’m going to get trolled. That part of me, that Mars part of me, when I think about That it that way, that becomes part of my everyday superpower.

[00:19:53] When I came up with the phrase initially, I was talking about the neuroplasticity and then wove the rest in later. And it wasn’t [00:20:00] until somebody else, I was exchanging information with a book publisher about the concept and about the phrase and she abbreviated it and said, Oh, look, it’s YES.

[00:20:10] And I was like, well, of course it is. It’s just such a perfect way of thinking about, yes, this is who I am. This is who I bring to the planet when I am authentically me and when I allow that to be empowered through these kind of different mechanisms, different means. 

[00:20:29] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh, Janette, I love that so much.

[00:20:32] I really got into the idea of the Mars, not necessarily, it’s, it is the God of war, historically speaking, but the idea of the hero that you can be with this, aspect and the courage, like you were talking about to step out and do something that you’re afraid to do. I love that idea so much.

[00:20:58] Thank you for sharing this [00:21:00] concept with us. And I think that it’s something that really we can begin to look at those different planetary characteristics that are associated and see how do those apply to me and what aspect could I take and use as my superpower. So I love it. 

[00:21:18] Janette Dalgliesh: Yeah, it’s really fun.

[00:21:19] And when I’m working with one on one clients, I will look at their chart and I will say, okay, your chart ruler is Jupiter. So this is the ally that you need to get on board. And what does that look like in through a post patriarchy lens? What do we know about, some of the planetary allies, the patriarchal version of them is really restrictive and not the best,

[00:21:42] not the most useful way of looking at it. So I’m very passionate about a post patriarchal lens on planets like Saturn and Venus and so on. So bringing that to the work as well, it adds another layer, another dimension, another string to [00:22:00] the bow. 

[00:22:01] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, for sure. That’s so interesting too. Thank you again for sharing that. And so then let’s touch on your workshop that you have with the imposter syndrome busting. And I love that so much because I think that there’s many of us that are really working on being authentic and believing that we. Are capable of whatever it is that we’re doing when our mind is saying, no, you can’t do that.

[00:22:30] No, you don’t have the knowledge or whatever is, and that imposter belief. Let’s talk a little bit more about it. 

[00:22:38] Janette Dalgliesh: I would love that. So I ran this as a live event last year in August, and I was really interested in the topic because it occurred to me. I noticed that a lot of the time people were looking at imposter syndrome and feeling that they were somehow, it was somehow a failure on their part.

[00:22:58] And when I [00:23:00] looked into it, imposter syndrome was first identified in about the 1980s. And it was particularly identified, you know, therapists talk to each other at conferences and things, and they talk about new things they’ve noticed, obviously. And what they were starting to see was a trend where women in high powered jobs were feeling, They were feeling high levels of anxiety that had no relationship to their performance.

[00:23:26] So their performance was great on paper. Their numbers were great. Their results were great. And this is high powered jobs across things like law, medicine, corporate world, banking, all sorts of things, and they were all reporting similar characteristics to their anxiety, which was a sense that they would make a mistake or that they would be found out that somebody would say, you don’t belong here, you’re not good enough. And yet it was completely at odds with the actual results they were getting. So there was this mismatch between the reality of their [00:24:00] results and what they were feeling internally. And so the therapist started referring to this as imposter syndrome. And it was identified really, and the name itself implies it’s a syndrome.

[00:24:11] It’s something that’s wrong with you. Over the years, it’s been researched more and more. And we’ve discovered that actually it doesn’t just apply to women in high power jobs. It applies to lots of different people in lots of different situations. And the characteristic that it has seems to be based on the idea that.

[00:24:30] You are somebody who is in a place you don’t belong, and when people are in a place they don’t belong, there can be really dire consequences. And as I was thinking about this, I was noticing that people were still talking about imposter syndrome as a personal thing that something wrong with me that I have to fix.

[00:24:49] And I thought this is a, probably the most extreme example of what we’ve been talking about where this, that this is a neurological, a very [00:25:00] reasonable neurological response to finding yourself in a place that people like us didn’t used to be in and having witnessed or heard about what happens to people who are caught out of their place.

[00:25:14] And when you think about it, how it is for women in particular. So this is why I’m very interested in working with women in this particular area is any woman who is pursuing their ambitions, pursuing a career, pursuing a sense of purpose in the world is a trailblazer. There have been working women for generations, but women didn’t start to be able to choose our careers until the late 20th century.

[00:25:42] That’s a very short space of time in the evolution of a human brain that’s been evolving for 200, 000 years, and has been really a modern brain for 10, 000 years. We’re talking about a few generations. My mother had to stop work because when she had me, [00:26:00] that’s not a long time ago. So it’s really natural. It would be wonderful. It would be very unusual, but it would be wonderful if you were in a high powered job and you were a woman and you never had a moment’s imposter syndrome.

[00:26:14] It would be unusual. I’d be great, but it would be unusual because most of us have had it installed in us by the system, that there are certain places we don’t belong. Ruth Bader Ginsburg talked about the importance of women being in the halls of power. It is still very much a place where we are the minority, where there is often a sense of, we don’t belong.

[00:26:36] And that is never a personal problem. It’s not ever a failing or a character flaw. And we have to clean that mess up from our own heads. So the workshop that I created uses neuroplasticity and the planetary allies, Saturn I teach you a practice that you then do for a month every night.

[00:26:56] It’s about five minutes. It’s really fun to do. It’s really [00:27:00] easy. And it’s a gift because I think this is such an important thing for women to be able to shift out of that imposter syndrome and do it without feeling like there’s something wrong with me. And it’s also one of those things where the messaging is going to keep coming in.

[00:27:16] So we need to keep inoculating ourselves and. And rebuilding our sense of, no, I have a lot to be proud of. I do belong here. The particular practice is designed to hack the brain, to hack your brain’s ability to answer questions so that your brain starts looking for all of the reasons why you do belong, you are awesome you’re the perfect person for the job you’re in, or the situation you’re in.

[00:27:48] It’s a way of reframing that and rewiring that, recoding it, so that you can stay inoculated against this stuff, this nonsense in the future. And it would be my [00:28:00] absolute joy to give it to everybody who’s listening to this. 

[00:28:03] Desiree Stanley: Thank you. And thank you for talking a little bit more about that, because I think it’s so important that we recognize what is really happening here.

[00:28:13] So I love that you clarified that it’s this idea of it being, a syndrome, not really. It’s not really a syndrome. These are places that we weren’t historically before. And so it’s a little uncomfortable because now we may be only just the early people, you know, reaching into these places that we weren’t before.

[00:28:34] And so I can see how that would cause fear or concern or doubt. And so it’s such a great reminder that this is really what’s happening. We are blazing some trails and so recognize that you’ve done the work. You are capable. You are qualified. You’re just maybe one of the early ones doing it.

[00:28:58] And the reminder [00:29:00] that, we’re talking about such a short timeframe, like you said, you know, the eighties. As much as you want to think it was only 20 years ago, it was more than 20 years ago. But it’s still such a short time period. 

[00:29:14] Janette Dalgliesh: It’s a split second. It’s a split second in intergenerational you know, the programming and the systems and everything else.

[00:29:22] And there are plenty of people who still aren’t even on board with it. So it’s not only historical resistance to women being in certain places, there is ongoing resistance to it. Thank you. That we are still fighting. So it’s not surprising that this stuff is lurking deep in our unconscious, but it can be changed, but we can shift it.

[00:29:43] Desiree Stanley: Yes, absolutely. Again, Janette, thank you so much for sharing this information with us. And I knew that this conversation would be amazing and it has been. And I always love to ask my guests if there are books that they’d like to share and you did mention [00:30:00] one earlier. So I’d love to have you, you know, share that with us again.

[00:30:03] But if there’s any other books that you’d like to share that you think would be beneficial for the listeners, I would love that. 

[00:30:08] Janette Dalgliesh: So the one that I found the most inspirational for this was a book called The Brain That Changes Itself. It’s by a doctor called Norman Doidge, and he’s an, I think he’s a neuroscientist. It came out in about 2010. So it’s been around for a while, but it’s such a classic introduction to the concept and the power of changing the brain. The other one that I really loved is Superbrain, which is by Deepak Chopra and a neuroscientist called Rudy, Dr. Rudy Tanzi, T A N Z I. It’s a really nice melding of the kind of the spiritual and the scientific, because obviously that’s something that is very much my jam. If the science isn’t there, I’m not on board. And if there, there’s no recognition of the magic, then that’s boring to me.

[00:30:55] So I think that’s another recommendation that I would make. 

[00:30:59] Desiree Stanley: [00:31:00] Yes. Love it. Thank you so much. And I’ll include that information in the show notes for listeners to easily find. Do you have any podcasts that you enjoy listening to that you’d like to share? 

[00:31:11] Janette Dalgliesh: There are so many podcasts that I absolutely love. I find it difficult to pick a favorite, to be honest, but there is one that I really recommend. And this is particularly for coaches. And I recommend it for coaches because I think it’s one of the few podcasts that speaks truth to our industry and to some of the issues within our industry is called Coaching Confidential and it’s by Lisa M Hayes. And I think it’s on the Spotify platform. But I also think it’s really useful to listen to for anyone who’s thinking of hiring a coach or working with a coach. So I would recommend that to anybody who’s any of your listeners who are thinking, this year I might want to hire a coach or I might want to look at some coaching people, you know, some coaches in the world and see who I like to follow. Because one of the things[00:32:00] Lisa’s philosophy is quite fairly parallel to mine. This idea that we have to acknowledge our connection to the collective and it’s impact on us. We can’t just make it a personal 

[00:32:14] a rugged individual approach that says it’s all up to me. So I think it’s useful for coaches to listen to, but I also think it’s useful for potential clients to listen to, to gain an understanding of what’s happening in the coaching world, which helps you to be a more informed client or a more informed consumer, if you like.

[00:32:34] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. Thank you for that recommendation. And I love that in both ways that you said for coaches or people who are considering hiring a coach. Excellent recommendation. Well, Janette, before we go, I would love for you to share how the listeners can follow you and your journey and what you’re doing.

[00:32:54] And if they have questions, how they might be able to reach out to you. 

[00:32:58] Janette Dalgliesh: Well, my website is [00:33:00] Janettedalgleish. com. I like to keep things simple and I won’t spell it out for you because I’m sure Desiree will have it in the show notes we’ll have the link there. I’m always on Facebook, so you can always DM me on Facebook.

[00:33:12] That’s probably the easiest way to get hold of me. And if people want to find the imposter syndrome workshop, the URL for that is impostersyndromeboom.Com so it’s all about exploding imposter syndrome, but I’m sure you’ll have that in the show notes as well. Desiree,

[00:33:29] Desiree Stanley: I will for sure include that because that you’re sharing that This is amazing.

[00:33:35] And so for sure I’ll have that in there. And as well as your contact information and how people can follow you. Thank you again I appreciate your time and your knowledge and what you have shared with us today has just been wonderful. Thank you. 

[00:33:48] Janette Dalgliesh: Thank you so much, Desiree. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. 

[00:33:52] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, we’ll talk more soon.

[00:33:54] Janette Dalgliesh: Fantastic. Thank you.

[00:33:56] Desiree Stanley: Thank you dear listeners for tuning in to another insightful episode [00:34:00] of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join us next week for another amazing episode. Remember, your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure, and we’re thrilled to be part of it.

[00:34:16] Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge.

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POK_Janette Dalgliesh Podcast part 1_01_12_2024
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:20] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Janette Dalgleish. Welcome to the show, Janette. I have so been looking forward to our conversation. Welcome. And thank you for joining us. 

[00:00:36] Janette Dalgliesh: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Desiree. It’s always a pleasure to be able to bring ideas and knowledge, and I love what you’re doing with this podcast and I love the idea of pockets of knowledge.

[00:00:45] I think that’s the key because we can’t know it all at once, but we can certainly take on board little bits at a time. I love that. 

[00:00:52] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And that was part of the concept, is getting those little nuggets, those kernels of knowledge [00:01:00] that can help us, grow and develop and become the people that we need to become.

[00:01:05] And thank you very much. I appreciate that. I want to talk about you. You are a life coach, but what I love about something you said is you’re on a mission to wreak more joy in the world. And so let’s talk about that to start. And then you can fill in about your journey, where you started because you’ve had a very experienced life and you’ve lived a lot of different experiences.

[00:01:32] And so I want to hear all about it. 

[00:01:34] Janette Dalgliesh: Thank you for that. Well, when the phrase wreaking joy occurred to me, we were used to the idea of wreaking havoc and wreaking disaster. And I thought, what would be a really revolutionary thing to do?

[00:01:46] And it occurred to me that wreaking joy would actually be far more subversive than wreaking because in a way, joy is an act of political resistance. When you think about it, you can’t radicalize somebody [00:02:00] who knows how to experience joy, who knows how to live an authentic life, and who has the opportunity to do that.

[00:02:07] So being able to wreak joy in the world doesn’t just mean for each individual, but that also includes, it weaves in the fact that I’m also quite an activist for social justice in my sort of non professional life. And it, it weaves those things together really nicely for me. The idea that if everyone on the planet had access to joy, the joy of living an authentic life, then war would be over, hunger would be over, all those things would be over.

[00:02:35] Obviously, there’s a part of me that’s quite an idealist and I can only do this more or less one human at a time, or a small group of humans at a time but we have to start with where we are. And so it brings me back to re energizing What I’m here to do and what I want to do, this idea of wreaking joy.

[00:02:53] If I’m wreaking joy just by having one Facebook post that educates or [00:03:00] enlightens or entertains, or if I’m doing it through a group coaching program, or if I’m doing it through a book or whatever then I figure my work here is done. 

[00:03:11] Desiree Stanley: So you mentioned a little bit in there about the political side and you do call yourself unapologetically political.

[00:03:20] And so if you want to share a little bit of that, and then, dive into where you started and where you are now and that journey, that would be great. 

[00:03:31] Janette Dalgliesh: I think now that I’m where I’m at in my life, it’s actually quite easy to look back and see the journey as it unfolded.

[00:03:37] So as a kid in the playground, I hated it when somebody would bully another child and then a teacher would come up and punish both people equally. The idea that bullying is acceptable and normal, and it’s just kids fighting really offended me deeply. And of course, as a kid, I had no tools and no power to do anything about it.

[00:03:58] And then my first [00:04:00] career was actually as a professional puppeteer. I wanted to work in theater and puppetry being a performer was fabulous, but I was a bit shy. So I became a puppeteer and over the sort of 20 years of doing that, very frequently I found myself whether it was a TV production or a theater production, I would be the union rep for the production.

[00:04:22] I remember one incident working on a kid’s TV thing where, obviously, we have, like the U. S., we have some pretty strict labor laws in Australia. And when kids are on a break, they’re supposed to be on a break. And I watched this poor kid who was clearly really stressed out and tired and getting crotchety.

[00:04:38] I think she was eight years old. And they had some newspaper come in to do an interview with her during her lunch break. And I was like, No, that’s not okay. So I rang the producer who was a great guy and said, did you know that the publicity people are doing making the kids work over lunch break? And he fixed it straight away.

[00:04:57] So that sense of being able to [00:05:00] stand up for the powerless, stand up for the vulnerable, that was something that started to weave into my working life back then. And then I was injured, which meant I couldn’t do it anymore. So I ended up working for the union that looks after actors. And then later the union that looks after academics and I realized what they have in common is these are people who are passionate about what they do, which leaves them quite vulnerable to exploitation, to being overworked, underpaid, treated fairly badly.

[00:05:33] And from there it was a very short step to doing more overtly political. And at one stage, I even spent a year as the sort of executive assistant to a federal member of parliament in Australia. She’s still actually in government now. And that was an amazing experience.

[00:05:51] I got to write speeches for her. I got to participate in the political process. I got a really deep understanding of how it works and how it [00:06:00] works within parties, et cetera. Although I realized that it wasn’t satisfying enough for me because I was now doing it at such a distance. I wasn’t getting that personal experience of helping an individual.

[00:06:13] I was doing quite a bit of that during my time working with this politician. I would quite often help out individual constituents who would come to the office with problems and difficulty and needing help navigating the system. And that was great, but it wasn’t. What I was really craving, I found out later, was I didn’t want to be rescuing people.

[00:06:36] I wanted to be empowering them. And in the years as a union organizer, I had been able to do that a few times, I’d been able to support people while they stood up for themselves in difficult, toxic situations. I won’t go into details but there are some really horrifying stories of how people get treated in the workplace.

[00:06:53] I’m sure you understand what that’s like. And being able to help people stand up for themselves, that was so [00:07:00] rewarding because not only did they solve the problem, but they also inoculated themselves to some extent against it happening again. I remember one person saying to me, she was in tears in my office and she said, I’m a strong woman.

[00:07:11] And I feel so helpless here and being able to say to her, I can support you with this. And here are the tools you need. And here’s the, being behind the scenes, helping with that to the point where she wasn’t just standing up for herself. She herself became involved at a committee level in the union and helped other people.

[00:07:32] And so when the time came to leave that work I had become aware of coaching and its potential for doing this same kind of work, and that was what I decided was going to be my next career. Because it gave me the opportunity to not just do it in the framework, this narrow framework of in the workplace.

[00:07:51] That’s great. And I think it’s an amazing privilege to help people in the workplace, because that is what so many of us spend so much of our time doing, [00:08:00] but I wanted to expand it. To people, particularly to women. Initially when I set up my coaching practice, I did work with men, but over the years, I’ve realized that while men also need support in a whole lot of different ways, my background and my interests lie elsewhere.

[00:08:20] That was really the foundation, the journey that meant that I can’t separate my passion for diversity, equality, inclusivity. I can’t separate that from the coaching work that I do. They’re intrinsically interwoven. 

[00:08:38] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such an amazing story. And thank you for sharing that with us, Janette.

[00:08:43] I think it’s really easy to see how even just as a young child, you wanted to be a supporter for other people and help them. And it’s clear in everything that you did working in the union, helping the actors. [00:09:00] And I think even, with The politician and getting that side of it as well, I think it’s really that overarching, you want to help people and so it’s very clear that’s just been your life’s work and it’s amazing what you’re doing.

[00:09:17] I think it’s awesome. So let’s talk then a little bit about how we can empower ourselves because you mentioned like you want to provide tools. You want people to be able to have something they can work with, not just somebody who’s going to save them, but you know what they have inside that they can save themselves.

[00:09:40] Janette Dalgliesh: Yeah, I thank you. This is such a great question. So I think one of the things that I have observed over the years of being a coach, I’ve been in business for more than a decade now, and one of the phenomena that I have observed over the years, and it’s happened to me as well.

[00:09:53] So I’m not sitting here on my high horse saying, Oh, it’s never happened to me. It’s definitely happened to me.[00:10:00] There is a very interesting phenomenon that occurs to me when we embark upon a journey of self awareness, empowerment healing, growth, expansion, we can also acquire some baggage along the way from that very process itself.

[00:10:17] And initially it puzzled me. I couldn’t quite work out where it was coming from. I knew that it was bothering me. So what I’m talking about is how there’s a moment very often when we’re doing this kind of self improvement work where we notice that there’s a pattern, that we have a pattern of behavior or a habit of thought that keeps recurring and we don’t give ourselves enough compassion.

[00:10:43] Very often we kind of pile on another layer of shame and guilt about it. So for example, somebody who notices, who becomes aware of an old thought habit, such as I’m not lovable, and starts working towards [00:11:00] changing that to I am lovable, or I am someone who could be loved, or whatever it might be.

[00:11:05] But catches themselves falling back into it. And immediately the reaction is, I’m terrible. I’m doing a bad job of this. And we get into this shame spiral of self criticism. It took me a while to figure it out. But I, the conclusion that I came to over A lot of investigating was that culturally we have been given a very strong push towards what I call rugged individualism, a sense of I’m responsible for it all.

[00:11:37] I create my own reality. It’s up to me to fix it all. And that’s not untrue, exactly, but I think sometimes we don’t take into account the impact of the systems in which we were raised. So we were, all of us, raised in multiple systems of oppression, whether we call it, whether it’s the patriarchy, [00:12:00] racism heteronormativity ableism, all of those sorts of systems.

[00:12:05] So our brains are told, this is where we belong. Our, the people who are like you have, these are the qualities that they have. But we also witness that happening to other people. So for example, if I’m thinking, well, I don’t belong in certain places, I know intellectually that I’m at no risk.

[00:12:26] If I’m in a place that I’m not supposed to be, air quotes, I know that I’m at no risk. But my brain has witnessed what happens to people who move outside of their, the zone they’re supposed to stay in. And my brain has seen images of people who have died as a direct consequence of being in the place they weren’t supposed to be, or trying to get, move up in life, or I’m thinking particularly of, for example, images from the 1960s.[00:13:00] 

[00:13:00] during the civil rights movement of people who were trying to vote, which is their legal right, who died because of it. My brain has witnessed that. And so have the brains of all of us who are alive on the planet now, because even if we weren’t alive at the time, we know what that happened. So for my brain to conclude, that it would be dangerous for me to get out of my little comfort zone.

[00:13:26] That’s actually a completely reasonable thing. So for me to suddenly feel shame or guilt about the fact that I have that programming, that’s not helpful. And it’s not accurate. One of the dynamics that doesn’t get talked a lot about in the sort of self improvement empowerment field is the idea that the systems around us are broken.

[00:13:50] They have been broken for millennia. They install a whole lot of toxic stuff in our brains at a very deep level. We grow up [00:14:00] swimming in these waters, these toxic waters, and we are not aware of it for the most part. It takes a lot of work to become aware of these unconscious biases in our own heads. And so we get this kind of toxic layering of mess that nobody else can clean up for us.

[00:14:18] It’s really annoying. I have to say, it’s really annoying to go. The system installed all of this nonsense in my head, and now I’ve got to clean up the mess? That’s outrageous! But unfortunately, that’s the way it is. But what it does mean is When I noticed my unconscious programming holding me back, at least now I can go, okay, it’s not my fault.

[00:14:41] It’s not a character flaw. It’s not something wrong with me. I do have to clean it up. I can’t just go, Oh, well, I’m a helpless victim. There’s nothing I can do about it. I do have to do some work to clean it up. But at least I don’t have to feel guilt or shame about the fact that I have that programming, [00:15:00] whatever it is, that’s keeping me stuck or holding me back.

[00:15:02] I’m not helpless. 

[00:15:04] Desiree Stanley: Janette, that’s so excellent. Such a great reminder. And what an interesting way to think about the programming, if you will, and how it’s as if it were in. And Like software on your computer. Just comes with. Software that’s installed. So these things that we’re taught that we’re raised with that environment that we grow up in is installing these systems into our brain.

[00:15:31] And it’s such a great way to think about it. I believe because now you can look at it like, okay, I recognize that there are these things. And like you said, It’s not that there’s anything wrong with me. This is the software that’s been installed and now what can I do to correct it? It’s like installing that virus cleaner onto your computer, right?

[00:15:58] So yes, I love [00:16:00] that you’re talking about it this way because it gives us an opportunity to look at these things from a different perspective. And so it’s excellent. So thank you for sharing that. 

[00:16:11] Janette Dalgliesh: You’re welcome. And I really love that. I had that analogy of the virus patch. I think that’s a great analogy because, we don’t arrive on the planet as a clean slate.

[00:16:19] We don’t arrive completely neutral. We have talents and preferences and things that we bring with us to the planet that form a complex, interesting, unique human being with potential for all kinds of amazing things. And then the programming gets layered on top.

[00:16:39] So what we’re doing the virus patch. It’s it is the cleanup. It’s basically uninstalling that stuff so that the true radiant self can emerge so that it can shine forth. And one of the things I always like to say to my clients is. It’s a bit like when the sun is hidden behind clouds.

[00:16:58] It doesn’t matter how deep [00:17:00] the clouds are, how thick and heavy and gray the clouds are. The sun never went away. That core, authentic you never goes away. It’s always there. It’s always with you, no matter how many layers of programming might be in the way, like clouds in the sky. And then it’s just the work of Unlearning the stuff that got taught that got installed.

[00:17:26] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, and that’s such a great point that. Idea of the sun is still there and so that part of you that authentic part of you is still there and it’s just a matter of peeling away all of the junk and getting back to it. And so I love that analogy as well. That’s. Brilliant. So then let’s talk a little bit about how we can do that reprogramming since we’ve got this kind of, computer terminology going on.

[00:17:57] How do we begin to work on that?[00:18:00] 

[00:18:00] Janette Dalgliesh: Well, I think one of the key principles to understand is that this is unconscious stuff. This is not, so we don’t do it through a single act of willpower, for example. There’s going to be a moment of revelation where we suddenly become aware that we have a particular piece of programming.

[00:18:15] So again, using the example of if the programming is I’m not lovable. We’re going to have that moment of revelation of going, Oh my God, this explains so much now, I suddenly understand why I have, Walked away from good relationships because I was so afraid that person would discover, I’m not lovable.

[00:18:34] And so I left them before they left me. So this unconscious programming drives our behavior. That’s how humans operate. And the revelation that we have a piece of programming is really valuable, but it’s not the full story. We can’t necessarily change it through an act of willpower, but the good news is, brains are incredibly easy to change.

[00:18:57] And this is the part that got me really excited. When I [00:19:00] started coaching, it was around the same time that Norman Doidge came out with his book, The Brain That Changes Itself. And He was talking about the phenomenon of neuroplasticity, which is basically the way that we can use our thoughts and behaviors, our deliberate thoughts and behaviors to physically and literally rewire the brain.

[00:19:20] We can change that programming through things like neuroplasticity. Far more easily than we think, or than we used to think. For 400 years, ever since Rene Descartes said, I think, therefore I am, for 400 years, we thought that the adult brain was fixed, that the brain was pliable and malleable in children while they were learning.

[00:19:42] And then once you hit adulthood, that’s it. All over Red Rover, your brain is fixed. Can’t change it. That turns out to be complete nonsense. The brain is eminently changeable. We know that now from work that’s been done with stroke victims, helping them not just find new neural pathways [00:20:00] in the brain, but actually grow new brain cells.

[00:20:03] All of the things we thought we knew about the brain turn out to be false limitations. We can rewire the brain. And the two things, there are only two things you need for rewiring a brain. One is repetition and the other is engagement. First of all, you want to think about, what is it I’m trying to reprogram here?

[00:20:22] If it is the thought, I’m not lovable, then what we want to install or what we want to rewire it to is I am lovable. This is why, when affirmations work, this is why they work when they work. They don’t always work for everybody because we’re not always doing it quite the right way.

[00:20:41] And there are lots of different ways that we can use neuroplasticity, but this is just an example. So let’s say we’re going to say, okay, I’m going to retrain my brain that I am lovable. We can use an affirmation. We can use a set of questions. The brain responds instantly to questions through a [00:21:00] process called instinctive deliberation, where you ask the human brain a question and it will drop whatever it’s doing and for a split second and turn all its attention to that question and we can take advantage of that.

[00:21:12] So we could ask a question like, how was I lovable today? Not, was I lovable, but how was I lovable today? I know that there were times today when I was lovable. I was lovable when the stranger in the store, grocery store smiled at me. I was lovable when my fur baby came and licked my face. I was lovable when I got a a nice phone call from a client.

[00:21:35] How was I lovable today? We do that as a daily practice, but we blend it with either emotional or sensory engagement. So the emotional engagement can come from simply putting yourself back in that memory of what you did today or how you were lovable today, how you experienced love today.

[00:21:56] You can do the sensory engagement by things, anything that brings [00:22:00] sensory pleasure. That can be literally smelling a particular scent that you love, or it can be the taste of something delicious, or it can be the feeling of sensory delight and physical comfort in your body. So stretching your back and moving your posture around, that can be sensory delight.

[00:22:21] It’s a very individual experience. So when I teach this to my clients, I often teach it within a framework. And I say, you pick your sensory engagement or your emotional engagement. If you can do both, that’s even better. And that using these two very simple approaches, repetition, sensory engagement, that is what gives us the power to use neuroplasticity in a very concrete way.

[00:22:49] And what I love about this is The brain is the most changeable organ in the body. Anybody who’s ever got done a weight training regime and [00:23:00] has experienced the growth of a muscle or growth of a bicep will know how quickly that can happen, but the brain does it even faster. So evidence suggests that when we are focusing on using neuroplasticity to change the brain, the changes begin within about 72 hours and It can take three to six weeks to find yourself with a different set of unconscious beliefs. I will say that if it’s been in place for a really long time, you may find there are stray pockets. I liken this to, if you imagine that the old neural pathway, the thought habit that your thoughts went down all the time, it’s like a super highway. So it’s eight lanes wide, there’s heaps of traffic, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:23:47] When your brain is going to a situation It’ll say, okay, what’s the thought that I’m most used to having in this situation? Oh, it’s down that highway. I know the way to go. I’m not lovable. I’m in a situation where there’s a potential new [00:24:00] romance, but I know that I’m not lovable, so I go down that highway.

[00:24:03] When we’re creating the new neural pathway of I am lovable, it’s like a little goat track in the grass. So we have to keep working on that new thought over and over again, as we build that neural pathway, it widens, it becomes a track way, then it becomes a road, then it gets a couple of lanes. So what starts out as a very Sort of difficult path to go down for your brain.

[00:24:30] Your brain comes to this kind of, it’s a little bit like your brain will come to a fork in the road. It’ll go, I could choose I’m not lovable or I could choose I am lovable. It’s a strange feeling, I tell you, when you get to these moments where it’s quite disconcerting.

[00:24:44] It’s almost wait a minute, who am I? What have I done with Janette? And so the more we keep choosing that new path. So it’s a combination of that neuroplasticity work and also following up with thoughts, [00:25:00] conscious thoughts and behaviors that are a match for that new pathway. That’s a very short encapsulation of a really complex concept, but hopefully that kind of makes sense.

[00:25:12] Desiree Stanley: It does. And it is so fascinating the idea of neuroplasticity and it’s been mentioned briefly on some other episodes, but it is so truly fascinating. And I, again, will recommend that the listeners go do some research on it and learn more about it because it’s incredibly. Fascinating and useful and the idea that our brains are not set in stone.

[00:25:37] They don’t stop growing. They don’t stop developing. We don’t stop learning. We are always learning, right? And as you said, the and I had mentioned on one of the other episodes, the idea of these grooves in a record. And when these things, when we repeat these things, these grooves get deeper and deeper, right?

[00:25:56] Or in this case, you’re talking about the super [00:26:00] highway and this road that is so easy to take because we’ve taken it so many times. And yes, it does take work. On, this new path that’s like you said, a little goat path or, there’s maybe rocks and tree branches and whatever that’s in the way that you’ve got to get out of the way.

[00:26:19] But it becomes easier over time and that’s where you mentioned repetition is so important. I love the concepts and the fact that we can change. We are capable of changing. We are capable of changing our minds at any moment. And so the analogy of talking about building muscle, this is the same thing you’re doing with your brain, right?

[00:26:42] When you’re changing your thoughts, it takes time and effort and repetition. 

[00:26:48] Janette Dalgliesh: Yeah. And the other ingredient that I think is absolutely essential is non judgment, a willingness to drop judgment. Cause I think this is where when we’re making the effort, [00:27:00] it’s very commonplace for us to feel that if we’re putting in effort, then we should be getting a reward.

[00:27:06] We should be seeing the results. And if we don’t see the result instantaneously, we do have a bit of an obsession with instant gratification in our culture. And so it’s very easy for us to fall into the trap of thinking, well, I’m doing all the effort. I’m doing the repetition. I’m blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:21] Why am I still getting the old thought cut showing up? And that’s the moment of going, okay, that thought was installed by this massive system. It is not a character flaw. I am working towards the change. All is well. It’s working. So it’s even when it doesn’t feel like it’s working because those are the moments where we can tumble over into a sense of, I’m not doing it well enough.

[00:27:47] I’m not doing it fast enough. I’m not doing it powerfully enough. There must be something wrong with me. I had a client this week talking about a particular old thought that was cropping up. And [00:28:00] as she was talking about it, I realized that there was not really a problem here. It wasn’t changing her behavior.

[00:28:08] What, she wasn’t letting it change her behavior. It was uncomfortable. It wasn’t fun. But I asked her, what if it was not a problem that you have these stray random bits of that old thought habit. What if we just decided that’s not a problem? And suddenly there was a huge relief. And so anytime we start feeling like it’s not working, we’re failing at it.

[00:28:32] Those are the moments where it’s absolutely critical to come back to this remembering. It’s not my fault. It’s not a character flaw. Yes, I have to do the work and I’m doing the work and it’s working because if we’ve tumbled into the shame and guilt spiral that says I’m not doing it well enough, that’s when that can actually interfere with the neuroplasticity process because we’re suddenly flooding our brain with all of the stress [00:29:00] neurochemicals of shame and guilt.

[00:29:02] And so we’re starting to really toxify the process itself. That’s when we can run into problems. 

[00:29:10] Desiree Stanley: Great point that you just made there remembering to not judge ourselves, give ourselves the grace or the leeway that we would give other people, right? It’s we’ve got to give that to ourselves as well and not be judging.

[00:29:25] I’m not doing it right. Or I’m not doing it the way it’s supposed to be done or, whatever, because you’re not seeing the results. Instantly. And I am so I’m guilty of that as well. It’s I’m doing all this work. Why is it? I’m not seeing any results yet. Why not? And so it’s very easy to be like, there’s something wrong with what I’m doing.

[00:29:46] I’m not doing it right. Or, whatever the case may be. Yeah. So it’s such a great reminder. 

[00:29:52] Janette Dalgliesh: I totally. And I am there with you. I put my hand up and say, yeah, me too. I I think this is why I’m so quick to spot it when a client is doing it. [00:30:00] Cause it’s Oh, I know that one. And we all do it.

[00:30:03] There’s a really interesting phenomenon in the brain’s learning center, the brain’s learning system. We try something and if it doesn’t go perfectly, we get a little tiny hit of dread. Something’s wrong here. And that’s what drives us, what motivates us to correct the thing that we’re doing.

[00:30:21] So whether we’re learning a piece on the piano or writing a blog post or whatever it is, when we make a mistake, we mistype, we type something, we spell it wrong. There’s this little hit of something in our brain that says, whoa. You better get that right. So we change it, and then we get a little hit of dopamine as a reward.

[00:30:40] And the dopamine helps to speed up the process of forming new neural pathways. This is one of the reasons why the repetition and engagement thing works, because we’re getting the engagement, the pleasure of the sensory engagement that helps speed up this new pathway that we’re building.[00:31:00] 

[00:31:00] And that’s also why when we tip in shame or guilt for not making progress fast enough or whatever else, that’s why it counteracts it because We’re we’re adding to the sense of dread rather than the reward for, no, this is the right way to go. It’s like our brain is being told that new pathway, that’s dangerous because that just leads to shame and guilt.

[00:31:21] Don’t go down there. So we want to encourage our brain. I sometimes think being the owner operator of a human brain, it’s a little bit like living with a border collie puppy. It’s smart as a whip. It’s really curious, it’s intelligent, it’s incredibly trainable, but if you leave it to its own devices and it gets bored or stressed out, it’ll chew your shoes and pee on the furniture.

[00:31:45] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah. No, I can totally see that. And anybody that knows Border Collies, I mean, they need to be active. They need to be engaged. They need to be doing something. Otherwise, forget it. You’re in trouble. And so I can see how that [00:32:00] could be, applied to the brain as well. If you’re, not I mean, of course we all have to have downtime, right?

[00:32:06] We’re not saying that. But I can easily see how your brain could just go off and you’re going down the wrong path entirely.

[00:32:15] Thank you, dear listeners for tuning into another insightful episode of the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. We appreciate your time and curiosity as we explore fascinating topics together. If you enjoyed today’s discussion, be sure to join next week for part two of our conversation with Janette Dalgleish, she’ll be sharing her wisdom on fixing the less than ideal wiring in our heads. Offering us insights on healing, growth, and the ever relatable imposter syndrome. Remember your journey of learning and growth is a continuous adventure and we’re thrilled to be part of it. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next week, stay curious and keep exploring those pockets of knowledge. 

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POK_Janelle Hunt Podcast_12_27_2023
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:20] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my guest, Janelle Hunt. Welcome to the show, Janelle. I am so honored to have you on. How are you doing today? 

[00:00:33] Janelle Hunt: I’m doing wonderful. Thank you for having me on this platform. I really appreciate it.

[00:00:40] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Janelle is an author and a domestic violence coach. And so she’s going to be sharing her journey through domestic violence experience and the journey of writing a book. And you’re going to tell us all about it. And I’m so honored to have you on to do so. Why don’t you go ahead [00:01:00] and tell us, first of all, how did your journey begin and led up to writing the book?

[00:01:07] Janelle Hunt: So my journey began I fell in love in like eighth grade and went into like high school sweethearts and it didn’t start out violent. It was just high school sweetheart, just innocent love. And then as I got to start taking care of myself, like self care and working out and losing weight, then I started noticing their aggressiveness or don’t wear this, don’t wear that.

[00:01:34] Then, as we got to become young adults, it became physical as far as, like, the controlling, don’t go here, don’t go there. Let me know if you leave the house, you know, if you ever try to be with somebody else, they’re not going to love you like I loved you. Then later on, he got addicted to PCP.

[00:01:56] It’s a drug. I tried to get him help. And he [00:02:00] kept relapsing and relapsing. And then about the second time, that’s when God gave me the strength to walk away, he was in a rehab facility. He came home tried to choke me out. In a chokehold, I was able to set myself free. He left the house and that was my time.

[00:02:21] I was already preparing to leave anyway, but that was the last straw. So I got all my things. I put it in my Mustang and I went home to my mother’s house and I’ve never looked back. 

[00:02:32] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing that with us. And, and I know that that’s probably the, the condensed version of the experience that you went through, but I mean, that’s It’s brave and it’s wonderful that you are sharing this now with others so that they can hopefully learn a little bit from your experience and maybe find some strength in knowing that they can leave [00:03:00] that.

[00:03:00] Right. And I think that’s something that is important for you to share with others. Right? 

[00:03:06] Janelle Hunt: Yes. Because I just, you know, any women that are going through domestic violence or that is still in domestic violence, I want them to know that it’s hope on the other side, there is life afterwards. I know you may have given up several years of your life and you don’t want to rebuild.

[00:03:25] You don’t even know where to start, or you just don’t even want the thought of it. But I just want them to know that there is hope on the other side and that God is waiting on them to come out of that situation. And he’ll give them the steps to take to remove themselves from that situation.

[00:03:43] So it’s really passionate to me because I know when I was in that state, I didn’t have nobody to speak to. And during those times I wasn’t open with my family. I kept it to myself because my mother was always taught, you know, you keep it to [00:04:00] yourself. Like, don’t share with the public. Don’t share with anybody outside the house that you’ve been abused, you’ve been molested.

[00:04:07] And to be honest. I didn’t tell my mom what happened, everything that happened with me in that relationship until I moved back home. But then, that’s when my mom broke her silence and said she was in domestic violence as well, as a young age. But, you know, I didn’t know that. And that’s where the issue lies.

[00:04:28] This is why we were not equipped to be prepared to keep us from going down that road of domestic violence or identifying that early signs. But I just want them to know that they can tell their story, that God is waiting on them and somebody else needs to hear their stories. And there’s room for them and that they know that it is hope on the other side.

[00:04:52] Desiree Stanley: You know, I love what you said about how traditionally we’ve kind of been told that you don’t tell people [00:05:00] what’s happening inside your home, but really, if we can share that with somebody, especially somebody who maybe has some tools that can help. It makes such a difference in your life, right?

[00:05:14] Because you’ve got access to people. There are people who are out there who are willing to help, capable of helping and, and giving you tools also to get out of situations like that. But you’ve got to be brave enough to speak about it. 

[00:05:30] Janelle Hunt: Yes, that is the main thing. It’s that you have to take the stand and you have to number one, forgive your abusers, because I was molested as a child, and then I got into, you know, the domestic violence relationship, but them same abuse, they carry the same trait. You’re used to being used when they need you, and then left, like, you’re a mat. So I was used to being treated like that.

[00:05:59] But I had to [00:06:00] learn to forgive the person who molested me and to forgive my abuser as an adult relationship. Because if not, I would have kept living in that same way. I would have kept being defensive. If anybody said anything to me, I probably would have cussed you out because I was protecting myself.

[00:06:19] I didn’t trust people. So That’s the main thing I always say. Trust is the big thing. And forgiveness. You have to forgive before you can trust anybody. You have to forgive and it’s not for the other person. It’s not to forget what happened to you. It’s just the let go of the trauma. So you don’t have to live in those layers anymore.

[00:06:42] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that is such a great point. How forgiveness really isn’t about the other person. It’s what happens inside you when you forgive the, the other person you’re really releasing yourself. And there’s a quote, and I’m probably not [00:07:00] going to get it right, but basically it’s like that anger, it’s like acid inside you.

[00:07:06] And all it’s doing is eating you up. Yeah, it really has no effect on the other person. It’s really all what’s happening inside you at all. 

[00:07:14] Janelle Hunt: And that’s really like how I became like I became bitter. Like I was the bitter girl, like if you bought any new friends towards me or anything, I just automatically thought they was negative, automatically thought they wanted something from me or they wanted something from my friends.

[00:07:36] I was very territorial and God has showed me that he showed me like bitterness, like when you are holding on to anger and you become bitter, it’s like you become an apple, but the core part of the apple is the bitterness, but everything on the outside is protecting the bitterness, but you become hard like the outside of an apple.

[00:07:58] And that’s because you [00:08:00] haven’t forgiven. You haven’t forgaven the core of that bitterness. And until you do that, You won’t be able to become your full authentic self because you have that layers of hurt, the layers of anger, the layers of bitterness. You can’t even become the person who God has called you to be if you don’t forgive.

[00:08:20] And I think that’s where a lot of people fail to forget because really like hurt people really do hurt people. You’re defensive because you really hurt. It’s not because you’re, you may, it’s not all the ways because somebody is mean and nasty. It’s because somebody has hurt them and they haven’t forgiven that person.

[00:08:41] So that’s how. I always like to, like, relate back to it because sometimes you don’t even know that you’re acting like that with people until somebody says, did somebody hurt you? Do you need to forgive somebody? But you don’t know that coming up as a child, it was just, you know, like a blanket [00:09:00] put over it.

[00:09:00] Like, you’ll be okay. Just keep it to yourself. You’ll be all right. But really, no, I’m growing up to become this aggressive woman, you know, young adult and didn’t even know why I was being like that. 

[00:09:13] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such a a great analogy, the apple and the bitterness of the seeds in the core of it.

[00:09:21] Great analogy, a great way to think about it and how we’ve got to, you know, let that Go release that so that we’re not carrying that around and and having it sort of infect every relationship that we have with friends, other family or whatever. So great, great point. And so I want to talk now a little bit about your book and kind of what motivated or inspired you to write it.

[00:09:49] What was it about your experience that you wanted the readers? To, to get and understand from the written word.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Janelle Hunt: So the reason why my book came up is because, like, I was journaling because I kept having dreams of my past relationship, the incidents that I would have with my abuser. If we got in an argument and he punched my legs and he made me feel like I was being stung by bees like 20 times on my thighs.

[00:10:21] Or when he black my eyes or, you know, the way he made me feel when he would look at other women in front of me and made me feel like I wasn’t good enough. I kept having dreams about it, like back to back to back. And I just was journaling. I kept journaling and then I was praying and I was praying and I was like, God, like, why do I keep having these dreams?

[00:10:43] Why do you keep sending me these dreams? Is there something I’m supposed to do? And that’s when it came that I need to write a book so that I can help women overcome it. But I feel like with me writing the book, it was healing me [00:11:00] as well. I was that core inside the apple. I was bitter. And I didn’t even know I was bitter, and I was getting in other relationships where they didn’t last because I was ignorant, I was disrespectful and didn’t even know why I was like that with the boyfriend that I had.

[00:11:19] And God was saying like you’re bitter, you have to forgive in through my writing I was able to transform my healing as well because the healing takes a while if you don’t know how to heal properly. So he was just walking me through that process. And then he told me to write a book so that I can help other women have that same blueprint to overcome the things that I had to overcome through my healing journey.

[00:11:47] So that’s what inspired me to write my book. 

[00:11:51] Desiree Stanley: That’s awesome. Well, Janelle, why don’t you tell us now what the title of the book is, and then we can talk a little bit more. 

[00:11:57] Janelle Hunt: Okay, the book is called Made on What I [00:12:00] Know, Find Your Serenity, Reclaim Your Life, and Pursue Your Goals After Domestic Violence. It’s my blueprint of how God allowed me to overcome the lingering aftereffects of domestic violence.

[00:12:13] Desiree Stanley: You shared about how initially it was journaling that kind of led you sort of in this direction and your conversations that you had with God. And I want to know, like, what was that writing process like for you? Was it really easy? Was it difficult? Did you find that the words just came super easily because you knew exactly from your heart what you wanted to share?

[00:12:42] Janelle Hunt: So I had some of the stories from my journaling, but I went through a transition of isolation from people. God was separating me from talking on the phone, watching TV hanging out with friends going out to clubs. He [00:13:00] just stopped it all together, and then he gave me an urge to write. And I don’t know why I was getting the urges to write, but I would just, whenever I felt that feeling, I would just write and write and write.

[00:13:11] And then on the last two chapters about forgiveness and purpose, he woke me up around 3 30 to 5 30 a. m. for two weeks. And I wrote them chapters and that’s when I received my healing as well on forgiveness bitterness and also walking in my purpose. So he used me as a vessel to write the book, but he was also healing me.

[00:13:40] Towards the end of my journey as well. And it’s always a healing because like, you get triggers and things but I know that, you know, God has me covered and he always helps me get through it. So that’s what Inspired me. And that’s how that journey was. The journey was not easy [00:14:00] because I miss my friends.

[00:14:02] I miss being on the phone with my family. But it was just like, I felt like he was just telling me, I need you to do something for me. And the people who are around you, they are taking up a lot of your time, but I need you to do this for me at this time. So, and I mean, even some of those relationships change.

[00:14:24] I don’t have those same relationships. The relationships have changed. I love them dearly and I know they love me, but the dynamic of our relationships have changed over, over the years because God is calling me to do his work and he uses me as his vessel. So the time that I had to hang out. And things of that sort I cannot do anymore because I’m constantly telling my story, getting the word out, and I’m building my business because he’s telling me to do it to help women all over the world overcome these after effects of domestic [00:15:00] violence.

[00:15:00] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s excellent. And thank you for sharing that with us. I think that it’s, it really is amazing what we can accomplish when we’ve got something that is, we just can’t stop it from coming. Right. It’s like, we know we have to get it out. And I think it’s amazing how writing the physical act of writing.

[00:15:24] It is so truly healing when you can get those things out and, you know, process them in a different way and release them. And I think that’s, that’s amazing. I love journaling. I think it’s an incredible tool. And so thank you for sharing how that, really was integral to writing this. And, and I love that you shared that you were woken up at three o’clock or four o’clock or five o’clock with like, I’ve got to get this written down right now. And I think that that’s amazing that you, you got [00:16:00] up and you did it and you didn’t ignore that call. 

[00:16:02] Janelle Hunt: Yes. Yes. During the time I didn’t know why it was just like, I was getting up and it was like, I gotta get it done.

[00:16:09] Like I would make sure that I have my notebook by me just in case I got woken up, like God woke me up. So every time I knew I already had my notebook, I would turn on my lights. I would already have my Bible open and I would just start writing. And those last chapters transformed me because I still didn’t know that I still needed to heal from some things. My friends loved me. They adored me for me because they knew me, but I also would put them in a bad situation when I wasn’t healed because I wasn’t so welcoming to their friends. I mean, even to this day, we laugh about it now. But I mean, a lot of those friends was like, I don’t want to be around that girl.

[00:16:55] Like she’s a mean girl, but it was because I was hurt and I still didn’t forgive. [00:17:00] But I thank God for, you know, waking me up and showing me those things so that I could heal and become the woman who he’s called me to be. And that’s why I always tell women. You know, you may be going through that dark storm right now, but when I tell you the sun comes out and you will walk in that glory, he will give you the hope and the desires of your heart.

[00:17:24] Like, you just have to trust them because like, I wish I had a book to read when I was going through those journeys. Like, I wish somebody would have said, There is light at the end of the tunnel. Like I got you, like, I’m going to have you write a book for my kingdom so that you can go back and help your sisters.

[00:17:40] Who’s still in domestic violence. I’m going to allow you to walk into your purpose, to create your coaching business, to help women. But during those times and that dark storms, I wouldn’t have never thought that. But if I had somebody that could reach back and tell me God has something for you to do for his kingdom, you just trust him, [00:18:00] keep journaling, keep listening to your dreams, keep whatever you feel is right in your spirit, write it down because he’s going to call you to allow it to blossom in your future.

[00:18:12] So that’s why I always tell women, he has something for you to do. Just trust them and go through the process. There is light at the end of the tunnel. 

[00:18:20] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such an amazing message. Really, I think we can’t say it enough. And in situations like this, that it may appear that there is nothing. That’s going to nothing positive that’s going to come for you in the future, but that’s not true.

[00:18:38] That’s that’s a lie. And that there is hope there is light at the end of the tunnel. And I love that message so much. I think that’s important to reiterate that. There is hope. Mm-Hmm. . 

[00:18:52] Janelle Hunt: Yes. So there is hope. I just want them to know that it’s hope. I know that it’s dark. I know that it’s lonely. [00:19:00] I know that they feel like, you know, they don’t even wanna sleep by theirself because they’re so used to being with this person because they’re going through separation.

[00:19:10] But I just want them to know there is hope. And there is sunshine. Remember the people who that you still have that love you. Don’t focus on what you lost. Focus on the people who you have around who they have in their circle, their safe circle, and look around to the other people who they can help.

[00:19:29] Get in community where you can be around women who can tell and share their stories too, because sometimes if your family haven’t been through it, they can’t relate to you and they’ll say, oh, it’s nothing, but that’s not the case. But if you get into community, that will help you. Usually libraries that have things or, the YMCA, like look up things in your city or your state so that you can get involved and be around different women. So you won’t think that you’re losing your mind because some people won’t [00:20:00] believe you. But if you get in community around the women that are going through what you’re going through, you’ll be able to relate and you can help each other walk into the glory that God has for you.

[00:20:12] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s such an excellent point. There’s people who love us that are in our life, but if they haven’t been through this kind of experience, they really have no reference, no way that they can, you know, be on that level with you because they’ve never thankfully experienced it. But, but you’re right.

[00:20:32] If you can find others who have been through something similar that together you can lift each other up, and provide that support and that strength for each other. And the point that you made about that you’re not going crazy, right? You’re not alone. You’re not the only one. And there are others and people who can support you and help you through this.

[00:20:58] And I think that’s [00:21:00] hugely important for people to remember and know that there’s resources that are available and others that can help you through this. 

[00:21:08] Janelle Hunt: Yes. And one of those resources, when I got out of my domestic violence relationship, I went back to college so that I could finish my degree and October came around and it was, you know, domestic violence awareness month.

[00:21:22] And I went to university of Delaware. I graduated from there and they had every October a whole month full of programs, conferences and events. That was geared towards domestic violence. So when I got in those rooms and I heard the women’s stories, I listen to the saw the documentaries and people telling our stories.

[00:21:44] I felt like I’m not alone. They know exactly what I’m going through. They know what I’m experiencing. They know my triggers. They know everything mentally that I’m going through. And it just gave me a sense of comfort [00:22:00] because we was all going through. We were all still trying to transition through, dealing with our triggers and everything else that was going on with us at that time.

[00:22:08] So that’s why I always say get in community because it will help you and don’t be ashamed. Don’t be ashamed of anything because your shame will keep you trapped and locked in, you know, keeping you isolated and we don’t want you isolated. We want you out of that. for listening. So being in community really will help you in your healing journey.

[00:22:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And something that you just brought up about shame and how so often we want to hide, right? If we think something is shameful or somebody is going to be like, shame on you for whatever. It’s like we want to hide from that and be, you know, hidden and alone and separated.

[00:22:53] And that’s not what needs to be happening at this time. The situation that you’re in, [00:23:00] it’s so often that the victim blaming, and it’s like, we blame ourselves, other people blame us, for what has happened. And it’s like, that’s not right. That’s not what’s happening here. Like we, and I say we in the general sense, you know, should not be the ones who are blamed for this situation.

[00:23:19] And, and there’s nothing shameful about what has happened. 

[00:23:22] Janelle Hunt: At all, because that’s where it happens like the shame that has been put on like back in the day how they would tell you be quiet. So that’s the taboo. That’s why everybody, you know, we don’t talk about it. Nobody says anything if you’ve been molested by a family member nobody says anything they’ll handle it within or let God just handle it which God is our healer.

[00:23:48] But at the same time, how are we supposed to move past it? We have to stop being quiet because our daughters have the right. Our sons even need to know, so that it can [00:24:00] be stopped. Because if it’s not stopped, it’s going to keep occurring. And it shouldn’t take for me to break my silence. For my mom to break her silence and then my grandmother who broke her silence before she passed when I shared what I was going through.

[00:24:17] But it shouldn’t have took that long for me to know those stories, for me to be able to have those tools that I needed to help me. But it was too late. I had already been through it. So that’s my mission. Like, I want to help get the word out. I want to help our daughters know, these signs so they won’t go down that path, so they won’t lose a decade of their life.

[00:24:45] Because that’s important to me, that takes a lot of years away from you for you to be able to rebuild and recover. So that’s my mission. I think of my goddaughter, I think of my nieces. And I’m like, I don’t want you to go through what I went through, so I [00:25:00] share. I tell my story and when they got to a certain age, I told them the whole truth because I want them to know because it starts young.

[00:25:09] It starts young. 

[00:25:10] Desiree Stanley: You brought up about the generational, your mother and your grandmother. And I had an episode previously about, you know, mother daughter relationships and healing intergenerational trauma. But this is another kind of side of that is not sharing what has happened perpetuates it so it leaves that open if you will, if, if these stories aren’t shared. You know, with each other. 

[00:25:38] Janelle Hunt: Yeah, exactly. It’s like, don’t have the tools. No, we don’t have the tool and the cycle keeps happening. And I’m going to tell you how our cycle happened because my mother’s abuser, when she was young, his name was Richard.

[00:25:54] And so with my abuser, his name was Richard. If she would have told me that [00:26:00] story and I would have knew what she’d been through, but she was taught to be quiet about it. That cycle could have been broken. And every time I think of it, I’d be like, how did that even occur? That your abuser and my abuser has the same first name, like that doesn’t even make sense to me.

[00:26:21] That’s really when the clock just went off in my head. When I thought of it, I was like, it’s time for me to speak out and tell my story because I don’t want no other little girl. Or no adult woman to have to go through what I went through and there’s so many stories like you can’t talk about it enough because my story is different from somebody else’s story.

[00:26:47] So it’s always room for all the women to tell their stories because nobody’s story is the same. 

[00:26:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such a great point for sure. It’s like our individual story [00:27:00] is a part of a bigger, broader story. And each of us are a section of the whole story. And so by sharing the pieces that we have, we’re creating that whole.

[00:27:11] And so I think it’s truly important that we do get our message out so that others can learn from the experience and hopefully not ever have to repeat it. 

[00:27:24] Janelle Hunt: Yes, that that’s my mission. I pray that they have the tools and they can’t have the tools if we’re not telling our stories and we have to tell our stories more. It’s funny because women of color have higher numbers than our counterparts because a lot of the women of colors, the families, you don’t tell anything outside the house.

[00:27:49] And our counterparts too, but they’re not talking about it enough. And it has to be talked about so that those numbers can come down, so they [00:28:00] can decrease. 

[00:28:01] Desiree Stanley: Totally agree. Absolutely. So Janelle, let’s talk then a little bit about how your experience taught you about healing and resilience.

[00:28:14] Janelle Hunt: My experience taught me that I can overcome anything. Some of the things that I thought when I was going through some of those dark moments, when I didn’t want to leave, when I wanted, when you still had that thing, like, how am I loving somebody? But I’m grieving him and I’m not grieving him because he’s dead.

[00:28:34] I’m grieving him because he’s living, but I just can’t be with him. Going through the grieving process and I always associated grieving with death, but it’s not true. You can grieve somebody that you, been with, but you’re just walking away from them. So. Just overcoming the grieving, overcoming the parts when I didn’t even want to live because I would wake up crying, I would go [00:29:00] to sleep crying and just praying and asking God to just change it for me so that my heart would stop hurting.

[00:29:07] And I always remember just calling on God, just always praying and asking Him to heal my heart. And then one day, it was just joy in the morning. Like, it was one day that I just stopped crying when I woke up. Cause that’s how much my heart hurt. I would wake up crying every morning and my mom would come to my room and she would say, this too shall pass.

[00:29:32] And I said, well, when? Because this hurts, it hurts so bad. And that one morning, God must have touched me through the night because I woke up and Everything was just, I would just release from it. Not saying that I still didn’t miss him, but my heart didn’t hurt that way that it hurt for so long. So the resilience and just stepping into your purpose.

[00:29:55] And I realized that God allow you to walk through some [00:30:00] things. And you’ll say, why me God? Why did I go through it? Why is this? But he’s going to use it for his glory. That’s where the resilience comes in because he’s going to use it. Even just the things that we don’t think that’s working for our good, it really is going to work for our good because he’s going to use it at the end.

[00:30:19] Like you have to go through something in order for him to birth something in your life. Because, if I didn’t go through it, the book wouldn’t have been written, you know, my program wouldn’t have been created. So I had to go through the darkness in order for me to get to the glory so that I can receive the blessings that he wants to give to me.

[00:30:40] I always have to think of it that way of thriving and the resilience and that’s how I take on everything. Because if I got through that, I can get through anything. I can get through anything. 

[00:30:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s excellent. Such a great reminder for sure. And it sparked a thought [00:31:00] for me when you’re going through something that’s really incredibly difficult and challenging.

[00:31:07] And you’re like, why is this happening to me? How come? And, and for what reason? It’s like, you may not see it in the moment, but it’s like, Coal through the pressure becomes the diamond, right? It’s like these really difficult, awful, horrible, challenging things that we are going through is what is creating that diamond that you become.

[00:31:34] And that’s what I thought of when you were sharing that, that portion of your story. And it’s like, we have to try to remember that it’s for us. 

[00:31:46] Janelle Hunt: Yes. Yes. It’s not against us. It’s not against us. It’s for us to help someone else. It’s for us to be a blessing to others. On my book cover, I have like a [00:32:00] flower that has blossomed up, but you see the root of the flower.

[00:32:03] And I always think of myself as when I was in that dark time, I was like the root. I was the seed. And then when God just started watering upon me, I was able to blossom into that beautiful woman who he had called me to be. But I had to get up out of the mud. I had to get out of all the layers of bitterness, unforgiveness, all of the past dramas that I didn’t, you know what I mean, that I didn’t address.

[00:32:29] I had to overcome all of them so that I can blossom into this beautiful gift that he wants to take it and bless the whole world with it. So that’s how I always have to look at it as you may be in your seed season, but he’s gonna water you so that he can blossom you into your gifting season. And it’s the gifts is for you to use them to bless other people, to be a blessing to other people.

[00:32:55] So I always think of it that way, but when I was going through it, it was [00:33:00] not easy. But I know that it’s other women who are going through it right now and they don’t have any hope, but you have to think that you’re going to become a blossom, you’re going to become that gift that he needs you to become, and your domestic violence story may lead you into engineering, it may lead you into becoming an artist, a singer, it could lead you into different avenues, but he’s going to use it for his glory so that you can be a blessing to others.

[00:33:27] Desiree Stanley: It’s wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. Janelle, I have enjoyed our conversation so much and I feel the passion from you for how important this is and sharing your knowledge, your experience so that others can benefit and that absolutely radiates through. And I love that you’re doing that and you’re sharing it in your book and in the work that you’re doing to help others.

[00:33:54] I think it’s amazing. So thank you. And I always love to ask [00:34:00] my guests if there’s any other books that they’d like to suggest that or podcasts that they think that the listeners would find beneficial or influential. And if you’d like to share something now, I would appreciate that. 

[00:34:13] Janelle Hunt: Yes. It’s called Purposely Thriving, it’s a podcast and it helps women. They’re divorced women. It’s geared to divorce women, but it’s helping women overcome the things that that’s holding them back that they don’t feel like they can move forward. The owner did touch on domestic violence. So it’s things there that they can listen to that can help them overcome and give them hope.

[00:34:38] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Good recommendation. And I’ll include that in the show notes. And so I’d like you to go ahead and tell us the name of your book again, and I’ll include it in the show notes so that listeners can easily find it. But if you want to go ahead and share that now. 

[00:34:54] Janelle Hunt: Okay, and you can find the book at MadeOnWhatIKnow.

[00:34:58] com, and it’s [00:35:00] again, it’s MadeOnWhatIKnow. com. And you can find me on IG thejanellehunt, and TikTok, thejanellehunt, and Facebook, it’s just janellehunt. 

[00:35:11] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. I’ll include all of that in the show notes as well. And thank you for sharing that. I am so honored that you came onto the show to share this with us today.

[00:35:22] Janelle, thank you for what you’re doing. I think it’s vitally important. And I thank you for your time tonight for coming on the show. 

[00:35:31] Janelle Hunt: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my story and you’re just such a blessing. And I pray that it blesses so many women. 

[00:35:39] Desiree Stanley: Thank you.

[00:35:41] And we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:35:42] Janelle Hunt: Thank you.

[00:35:43] Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and empower you to achieve your goals. And thanks again for listening.

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POK_Moni Castaneda Podcast_12_20_2023
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley. 

[00:00:20] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest Moni Castaneda. Welcome to the show. How are you? 

[00:00:31] Moni Castaneda: I’m doing wonderful. Thank you so much for inviting me.

[00:00:34] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Well, I’m delighted to have you on the show today.

[00:00:37] You’re going to be sharing your knowledge around the area of feng shui. And I’m super excited to learn more about this. It is something that you do see often people talking about and certain design shows mention it periodically. And so it kind of has always piqued my curiosity to know more.

[00:00:58] So I’m so [00:01:00] excited to have you on to enlighten us about it. But I want to start with what was it that inspired you to get into this area? And you actually also launched a business around this, and I’d love for you to tell us about how that all came to be. 

[00:01:16] Moni Castaneda: Yes. So I’ve always had some kind of a passion for space and it all comes down to my grandmother.

[00:01:24] I grew up in Quito, Ecuador. Which is a little country about the size of the state of Colorado, and it’s in South America, right on the equator. And you would expect it would be hot, but not where I lived, because you also have the Andes Mountains going through Ecuador. So I was living in a city that had fall weather year round.

[00:01:46] And when I was a child, you know, about three years old, my grandmother started taking me to visit friends and relatives. It’s a visiting culture. People back then, they didn’t used to meet at coffee shops. They visited each other in their [00:02:00] homes. And my grandmother always took me with her. And so I got exposed to a great variety of homes and I observed a lot of things.

[00:02:07] But she also, she made a point to teach me things. And so I only realized it recently that that’s when my feng shui education started, but she would always when we left the home, she would comment on the things that were done right and the things that could be improved. And so I was exposed to all these different kinds of homes, but when people ask you what you’re going to do when you grow up as a child I could see other children had a ready answer they visualized.

[00:02:37] And I couldn’t, do you remember that movie, The Matrix? Did you watch The Matrix? You know, when Neo goes to that place where it’s just all white. And that’s what it was like for me. Like whenever they asked me, what do you want to be when you grow up? I would just see a blank screen, but I always had a passion for spaces.

[00:02:57] Later on, I studied architecture[00:03:00] and I graduated one month and the next month I moved to the United States. I didn’t have a chance to practice, but for a month, and when I came to the United States, I found out when I went to my first job interview that I would not be able to practice because there’s no agreements between the two countries and their universities.

[00:03:19] I was kind of devastated because I put so many years into going to school, and architecture training is grueling, you know, so many sleepless nights, so much work, and so much effort, and then to think, I can’t do anything with this. I did not want to go back to school, because they told me, oh, you can go back to school for five years, and that was Like starting over, right?

[00:03:44] And then I had to be an associate for somebody else for two years, and then I could take the board exam. And so a friend told me, you know, why don’t you look into feng shui? And I did, and I fell in love with feng shui. But one of the things that I noticed right away [00:04:00] is that there was a lot of confusion.

[00:04:02] There’s different ways to practice Feng Shui, and when I started studying from one book, one author, one teacher to the next, it was all very confusing, because they were not just saying things that were different, they were saying things that were contradictory.

[00:04:16] Desiree Stanley: No, that’s just really curious that they’re contradictory information, but please share more. 

[00:04:22] Moni Castaneda: Yes, and so, because of growing up in Ecuador, right? In Ecuador, nothing that I saw on TV, movies, even the books in school, and the instructions on boxes, nothing worked. Right? Because you’re on the equator, so magnetism works different.

[00:04:42] You are 9, 000 feet above sea level, so because of the atmospheric pressure, you know, things just work different. So, like, the instructions on a box of pasta, they weren’t true for me. Like, the box said it takes seven minutes to cook pasta, but the truth was it took 24 minutes. And [00:05:00] exactly 24 minutes, because if you went to 25 minutes, by then the pasta had been soaking in water for so long that it dissolved.

[00:05:08] And so I was reading in books that there’s four seasons, but I had no seasons. I was learning that days got longer or shorter depending on the season, but my days always started at 6 a. m. and the sun always set at 6 p. m. I was reading that trees would lose their leaves, but the trees around me were always green.

[00:05:30] And so, because of this, and because of going with my grandmother and looking at all these homes, I always had decided I couldn’t trust books. I couldn’t trust science. I couldn’t trust teachers. I always had to double check everything and find out for myself. So when I found feng shui and I saw all these contradictions, I decided, well, I have to find out the truth.

[00:05:51] And the truth could be found in acupuncture, because feng shui and acupuncture come from the same source. They’re both [00:06:00] branches of ancient East Asian medicine, and I had a friend who was an acupuncturist, and so I started asking So all the things that I’m learning, what do you actually use in your acupuncture practice?

[00:06:12] And why do you not use? And by using acupuncture as my guideline I created a system to practice feng shui and then I started applying and it didn’t work because here’s the thing I had met a number of people who told me they were doing feng shui in their homes, and when I went to their homes, I was like, what?

[00:06:33] Like, huh? You know, what’s going on here? Because what they were doing is they were going to stores and getting what are called feng shui cures, which are little trinkets that come from Chinese culture, and they’re the same kinds of decorations you will see in a Chinese restaurant, or maybe in a, in a nail tech shop, and they looked out of place.

[00:06:54] Like, I can look at something, right, like a jade ornament, and it is beautiful. [00:07:00] And in a Chinese restaurant, it fits so well, and it’s just wonderful. But in a home that has like mid century modern furniture, or farmhouse style, or contemporary, they just looked out of place. So, because of my training in architecture, I thought there’s got to be a way to do this, and end up with beautiful spaces.

[00:07:24] Because When you look at the, at the Japanese tea houses, when you look at the temples in ancient China, the houses in ancient China, they’re gorgeous, right? And so I thought something is getting lost in translation, and something is getting lost in the transfer from one culture to the other. I set out to practice feng shui in a way that the result of applying feng shui would be the dream home.

[00:07:51] So that the result would be beautiful. That was very important to me. If you do feng shui to create harmony in your home, to have good vibrations, right?[00:08:00] 

[00:08:00] You want the results to look good. You want people to say, wow, or ah, when they come to your home, you don’t want them to go, huh, what’s going on here? What’s wrong with this person? And so that was really, really important to me that I wanted to do this in a way that would look good. Not just feel good, but also look good.

[00:08:19] And I use the same principles of acupuncture to apply them to a home so that in the end, your home would be just beautiful and comfortable and have great energy and make you lucky because Feng Shui is about making a place lucky. 

[00:08:36] Desiree Stanley: That’s so fascinating. Thank you for sharing all of that with us. And I love to hear about the differences in the, what’s happening in the equator, because you’re absolutely right.

[00:08:46] What happens in the northern part of the globe in, you know, North America is going to be completely different than what is happening at the equator. So great reminder of that and the seasons changing and all these things that we, [00:09:00] expect living here up in, you know, the northern part of the globe you were not experiencing.

[00:09:05] So thank you for sharing that. It’s always great to remember the different perspectives. 

[00:09:09] Moni Castaneda: Yes. And we take things for granted, you know, like even in religion, I’m learning that there’s a North star, but when I go outside and I look at the sky, that’s not what I see. I see the Southern cross because on the Southern hemisphere, you see the Southern cross.

[00:09:25] And so all these things were a blessing in that they taught me to double check information. And that is what I did. And that’s where I came up with a system that’s called a nine steps to feng shui system. And the result of applying this system is always a dream home. Because when you do things with purpose, When you choose your mirrors, your art, your lamps, your rugs with a purpose, you get that kind of harmony that you can only get through good feng shui.

[00:09:58] So like in an [00:10:00] architect or a designer, they can create a place that is beautiful and comfortable, but it’s not necessarily going to have good energy. And you have probably experienced, right? You have probably experienced that you went to visit a friend and you just felt so comfortable and you didn’t want to leave their home.

[00:10:16] You just wanted them to adopt you and stay there. And you probably also experienced at some point or another visiting a home that you just had to leave. And it’s not always the beauty. It’s the feeling of the home. It’s just how it feels. 

[00:10:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s a great point. It’s not, of course, visually that’s important as well, but with feng shui, it’s more also a sense of what’s happening in this space, right?

[00:10:44] Moni Castaneda: Yeah, because it’s about creating good energy and energy is real. You know, it’s not something woo woo we have a human energy field that, you know, in olden times was called the aura. But now we know there’s a human energy field because we are electromagnetic [00:11:00] beings. And there’s an energy that is emanating from your plants.

[00:11:04] There’s energy emanating from your electronics. And so you have to make sure that energy in your home is harmonized. When the energy is harmonic, you get along better, you sleep better, you’re less stressed out. When things in your home are messed up, and in terms of, like you have too much clutter, or the home is in chaos, or you are surrounded by things you don’t love or just, you know, things don’t flow.

[00:11:29] Then the energy is not going to be right and you can feel that and that can affect you. Some things, you know, like Feng Shui is a lot about common sense. So some things in your home make you cringe. Some things in your home make you irritable. Some things in your home are dangerous. for example, if there’s an object in your home that you really don’t like, but you keep it because somebody gave it to you, and you’re afraid if you don’t display it, that it’s going to hurt their feelings, every time you look at that, you’re going to cringe a little.

[00:11:57] You have a [00:12:00] drawer in the kitchen that always gets stuck. Every time that it gets stuck, you get a little bit more irritable. When you’re more irritable, you’re more prone to arguments. And so your home can make you more argumentative. If there’s anything in your home that’s a risk, that’s going to make you afraid.

[00:12:19] For example, if you have a table with sharp corners that every once in a while somebody gets hit on that, that’s dangerous. And if you keep it, if you allow it, You are making yourself, you’re turning yourself into a victim of life because you’re a victim of your home. So your home influences you in profound and deep ways that you may not be aware of.

[00:12:39] Until you take control of what’s happening in your home, you’re not gonna feel safe. You’re not gonna be harmonious. You’re not gonna get along with others and you’re not gonna get empowered. There’s the word getting empowered, it’s used very often in these days, right? And and I think it’s especially important for women because for[00:13:00] thousands of years, women have been relegated in society and power has been associated with the male.

[00:13:07] And the female, we have been taught and even for unless you’re Gen Z, right? You were probably raised in a way that taught you that power does not belong to you. And power is not a bad word. Power is being able to do things, being able to do stuff, being in control of things. And so you don’t have a say in what happens in the world.

[00:13:31] You don’t have a say in what happens in politics, in your city. But what you do have a say is on what happens in your home. That’s where you have the control. So if you get the right knowledge, then you can create beauty and comfort and good energy at home. And that’s going to nurture you. Because what we want for you is that your home be a supportive partner.

[00:13:54] That when you come home, you feel energized, you feel proud, you feel [00:14:00] happy. We don’t want you to feel like the home is another toddler you have to take care of. Every five minutes needs something and just completely drained. Right? And housework can feel like that. It can feel like it’s the home is always getting your attention, always needing something from you and never giving you anything back. So that’s not what we want. We want you to be surrounded by an environment that tells you, you are good, you are doing great, you are successful, you’re fantastic, you’re worthy of love. There are so many things. So the Chinese have this saying that goes like this, all the things in your home are talking to you, Make sure they have nice things to say.

[00:14:42] Desiree Stanley: That’s the first time I’ve heard that and I love it. That’s so true. And can we talk a little bit more about your, your description of the table that has sharp edges or drawers that have are stuffed and you can’t get them open and how [00:15:00] irritable that makes you. And let’s expand on that and talk also about like.

[00:15:05] What are some things that we can do to start making corrections for those things that are in our homes? 

[00:15:12] Moni Castaneda: Yeah, and so I have been to homes where they had like a coffee table with sharp corners. And I asked them, well, has anybody ever hit their shins or their calves? They’re like, all of us, all of us. And then they’ll tell me some gory story of one of them actually broke the skin and had to get stitches or things like that.

[00:15:32] And I asked them, well, for how long have you had that table? And they’ll tell me six years, 10 years, 15 years, right? And so you have a dangerous object in your home and you keep it. Everything that’s in your home is because you put it there or because you allowed it. to stay, right? And so, why have something in your home that is able to hurt you?

[00:15:54] So, you know you have good feng shui, if you could let loose a two year old in [00:16:00] your home, you know you have good feng shui. But if you have things that are potentially dangerous to a person that is intoxicated, or to the person that’s two years old, then you know you have bad feng shui. So, for example, I know there’s this habit that a lot of people, when they live in two story homes, or three story homes.

[00:16:19] You put things on the stairs so you don’t forget to take them upstairs. But the next person doesn’t know they’re there. So that’s a tripping hazard. So that makes it dangerous, right? And so there’s so many things in your home that are potentially dangerous. Stairs are dangerous of their own, and they may not be dangerous to you on any particular day, but if you are a little bit tipsy , they become dangerous, right?

[00:16:43] If you have a a toddler in your home, you become concerned about the stairs. And so you gotta make sure that your home is baby proofed in a way, because if your home is baby proofed, then it’s going to be safe for everybody. Another thing, when I see a client [00:17:00] that they have put something that is very expensive or fragile on an unstable surface or on the floor.

[00:17:07] I know that’s a person that gets their feelings hurt easily, and so if you are doing these things, you’re probably also in life putting yourself in positions where you could get hurt. And that’s not a good way to live. So, let’s talk about the drawers, the closets, so, I’ve talked to people that tell me they’re afraid to open a particular closet door because they don’t know what’s going to fall on their head.

[00:17:32] Imagine if you go through life being afraid of a closet. How are you going to be empowered to do the things that you would love to do, the things that you need to do to be healthy, happy, and successful? If you are constantly making your home give you bad messages, it becomes so much harder to be successful.

[00:17:54] And there’s some things that you do, right? Like, if you have chosen a table that is dangerous, that’s something that [00:18:00] you chose. If you are stuffing your drawers to the point they can’t be opened, that’s something that you’re doing. But there’s other things that they’re just not your fault. It’s the way the home was built.

[00:18:11] So, for example, if you open the door and the first thing you see is a staircase going up, that’s not feng shui. Because it’s not attractive, stairs are not attractive, and stairs are a reminder of effort. So you open the door, the first thing you see is the stairs, right? First there’s a little bit of decision fatigue when you see stairs because there’s like, should I go upstairs or should I stay downstairs?

[00:18:35] And then you’re thinking of going upstairs and that’s effort. So you start associating coming home with effort. And then you start resenting the home. Because now your home has become synonymous with effort. But! You can fix these things with Feng Shui without having to remodel, because you might say, okay, what am I going to do, you know, change the location of the stairs, but no, you don’t [00:19:00] necessarily have to do that.

[00:19:01] There are things that you can do so that your attention doesn’t go to the stairs. So that your attention goes somewhere else to something beautiful, something that is welcoming. So there’s three categories of things that happen in the home. So the first category is the things that are absolutely not your fault.

[00:19:17] That’s just the way the home was built. Like you open the door, you see the stairs. And maybe when you go upstairs, there’s a long and narrow hallway. So that’s bad feng shui. Maybe. You have a basement or half basement, and there’s some places in the basement where the ceiling is really low and that feels oppressive.

[00:19:34] You didn’t cause that. That’s the way the home was built. When you open the door and the first thing you see is the window. That’s also feng shui, that makes you feel fatigued, even if the view is gorgeous, right? And so, but these things are not your fault. That’s just the way the home was built, but the second category, is major decisions.

[00:19:55] So these are things that you may have done or you may have accepted and these have to [00:20:00] do with the finishes and finishings of the home. So, for example, the kind of floor that you have, the kinds of doors that you have on your cabinets. The kinds of curtain rails and curtains that you have. These are major decisions.

[00:20:13] They’re not so easy to change, right? So, like, for example, if you have a lamp in your living room that you don’t quite like, that’s very easy to change. You can sell or donate that lamp and you can buy another lamp, but when we’re talking about wall to wall carpet, when we’re talking about wallpaper, when we’re talking about curtains, they’re not so easy to change because they tend to be more expensive.

[00:20:35] Or they tend to take a lot of effort. If I’m saying there’s a bad color in your primary bedroom that is making you depressed. For example, you decided to paint your bedroom in a navy blue. That’s making you depressed. It’s not easy to change. You have to use primer to cover up the navy blue. You have to use masking tape.

[00:20:59] You know, you have to [00:21:00] move the furniture. You have to do the painting or hire a painter. It’s not easy to do. And so these things, there may have been there when you bought the home, or there may have been decisions that you made, and then later on, they were not so hot. And so during the three years of lockdowns, And social distancing, did you notice how people were crazy about everything? White or light gray, right? And so in Feng Shui, white and light gray are connected to the lungs. And we were dealing with a lung condition, right? And so they’re associated with grief and stuff. And so people are naturally gravitated during the circumstance to whites, but that was too much white.

[00:21:41] You’ll get tired of too much white easily because it’s hard to clean and you start getting that clinical feeling, right? So some people are saying in order to counteract too much white, let’s do a black wall. That’s very, very involved right now. Have you noticed the dark navy navy blue, the hunter [00:22:00] green or the black walls and it’s not just the wall, but they also do some wood trimming so that to give it texture and stuff, right?

[00:22:08] But that is too much having a whole wall that is black. That is too much black that can affect you negatively. And so you may have made a decision that made a lot of sense and it might have been what you needed at the moment you made the decision, but later on you no longer need it. And so this is the second category, right?

[00:22:27] So the first category, not your fault at all. The second category, some of that may be your responsibility and some of that may not. Then the third category is all you because it’s furnishings. So furnishings include the furniture, Decorations and accessories that you have chosen, right? And so, these are the three categories.

[00:22:48] And each of these three categories has like three subcategories. And that’s how you get, in my system, we have nine steps to feng shui. So, three steps to correct issues with the [00:23:00] way the home was built. Three steps to correct issues with the way the home was Finished and then three steps to correct issues with furniture choices and location.

[00:23:13] So we start with the first category, fixing the things that are associated with the home was built because those are the most important. Those are the ones that are going to have the greatest effect in you. Then we move to finishes and finishings and then we move to furniture. And so going back to finishes and finishings right?

[00:23:33] It doesn’t always mean like, for example, you made a mistake with a color. It doesn’t always mean you have to repaint. It may mean that you need a different color of bedspread or you need cushions in a certain color. Or you may need a certain kind of painting. Maybe you put a certain kind of painting on that black wall, and if you choose the colors and the theme carefully.

[00:23:55] It’s not going to feel so oppressive. What I love about what I do is [00:24:00] that I can see this transformation in people’s homes that unfolds over time, because we’re following a process, we’re following a system and. Everything that you do for your home because your home is influencing you is going to produce a transformation in you.

[00:24:16] So you’re going to feel more secure after you go through the first three steps. The ones that have to do with architecture, you’re going to feel feel safer at home. Then when you do the next three steps, the ones that have to do with finishes or finishings, what we usually recognize as interior design, and those are going to make you feel more harmonious.

[00:24:35] And then when we do furnishings, you know, furniture, accessories, and decorations, when we get to that point, then you are going to feel empowered. So there’s even something in Feng Shui called the power position, which has to do with furniture arrangement. And so how to arrange your primary bedroom, the kids bedrooms, the living room, the dining room, the kitchen, so that the function that the room was [00:25:00] designed for happens.

[00:25:01] So, for example, the primary bedroom, functions of the primary bedroom are to rest, to make love, and read, maybe stretch, but not work out, not finish the office work, right? And so when you start bringing in things, and this happens a lot if you have a large primary bedroom, somebody’s going to say this is a perfect spot for a home office, right?

[00:25:28] And if you have a A large primary bedroom, somebody might say this is a perfect place for the treadmill and when you do that, you start having a lot of arguments with your partner. A lot of arguments about how much energy and time you put into work instead of the family and a lot of arguments about fitness and looks.

[00:25:48] And then, you know, when you’re talking about how you, the accessories and decorations you put in your home, it’s so complex and beautiful because some things [00:26:00] you put in your home, they’re beneficial for you in one room, but they’re not good for you in another room. So, for example, if you put an image with three pears.

[00:26:13] Like one pear, second pear, third pear, or three apples. And you put that in your dining area, that’s beautiful. But if you put that in the primary bedroom, that’s a problem. Can you tell me why? 

[00:26:25] Desiree Stanley: Well, because you’re introducing more than two people? 

[00:26:29] Moni Castaneda: Yes, and what does the number three mean? A threesome or a love triangle.

[00:26:36] So unless you’re looking for that, you know, you don’t want to promote that in the bedroom. Another example, if you put photos of your family in the hallway, that’s great. But if you put photos of the family in the primary bedroom, you’re going to be arguing about family. And so even, even images of the kids, right?

[00:26:56] And here’s another one. Like the country where I grew up is like [00:27:00] 90 something percent Catholic and it’s a custom that in the primary bedroom, you put a cross above your headboard. Do you think there’s going to be a lot of intimacy in a bedroom with Jesus watching? No, right? So it makes a lot more sense.

[00:27:18] Now, if you have that across in a different area of a home where you actually have an altar, then that’s going to be beneficial to you. But some things, like I remember working with a client. One of the times I was visiting Ecuador after I had become a feng shui consultant, and she was like, Jesus has been with me for 30 years of marriage, and I’m going to throw him out?

[00:27:40] And I’m like, you’re not going to throw Jesus out, you’re just going to find a better place for Jesus, a place where you can pray and meditate, but not the bedroom. Right. And so it’s just fascinating. Of course, you have to adapt it to the cultures and the beliefs of people. And this is another thing when I first started, that was important to me.

[00:27:59] The [00:28:00] two main schools of feng shui that you can find here in the United States, if you want to study to become a feng shui consultant, one of those is compass school feng shui, and they use astrology and numerology and the compass directions. And so they’ll tell you things like your head has to point in a certain direction, and they will even turn the bed at a weird angle in the middle of the bedroom.

[00:28:20] And they will choose your colors, depending on your year of birth and, It’s astrology numerology. So in some religions, it is not accepted to use astrology numerology. Then the other school that you could become a consultant is the black hat school or black sex school, which is actually the full name is black hat tantric Buddhist school of Feng Shui.

[00:28:44] And so a lot of the enhancements that they suggest they come from Buddhist culture, right? And so I don’t have anything against astrology or numerology, and I don’t have anything against Buddhism. But, if that is an issue with somebody’s [00:29:00] religion, I don’t want them to use it, right? So, for example, I have this client, and she told me she had already been trying to do feng shui by herself from a book she bought.

[00:29:11] And so, I walk into her foyer, and she has a laughing Buddha. And she scratches the belly of the laughing Buddha, because they said that’s going to bring you money. And so I knew she was Catholic. This was in Mississippi. And so I, I asked her, uh, well, Do you feel okay with having a Buddha image, when in Catholic religion, you’re not supposed to have idols and stuff of other religions.

[00:29:35] And she says, Oh, I hide it when the priest comes to lunch.

[00:29:39] So they were friends with the priest and sometimes after mass, he’d come have lunch at their house. And so somebody had to rush. And hide the Buddha in the closet, in the coats closet, because they didn’t want the priest to see it. So when you start doing things like that, it’s out of integrity. What I want to do for people is that I want them to be able to practice feng shui no matter what their [00:30:00] religion they follow.

[00:30:02] I want them to be able to practice it in a way that is going to be okay. Either way, you know, with whatever belief system they have. 

[00:30:10] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, that makes perfect sense. And I think that the point you just made about hiding it when, you know, the priest came over, I mean, that’s also got to cause some real discomfort because it’s not aligning with your true, value if you will.

[00:30:28] And, and so it is totally out of alignment, it seems. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:30:34] Moni Castaneda: Yeah. You have to be truthful. You have to be truthful with who you are. You have to be truthful with what you believe. If you grew up in one religion and then you change your religion and now you’re having the symbols of another religion and you are perfectly in integrity when you do that, that’s fine.

[00:30:48] But if you’re feeling guilty when you do it, if you feel like, so I’ve met people that they feel they have to hide from their relatives and friends. That they were doing feng shui because they were doing things that [00:31:00] their relatives would think are weird. And so that’s not, in my opinion, that shouldn’t be the objective.

[00:31:07] The objective should be that you have a home that makes you proud. 

[00:31:11] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. I love what you shared so much and you’ve given us such great information already. I want to touch a little bit more on the description that you gave about people who are putting specific objects into their home that, you know, are symbols that you traditionally would see.

[00:31:33] You know, as you described in perhaps a Chinese restaurant or something like that, but now it’s in your home and it doesn’t necessarily go with your decor. Like what, what would you want to do in a situation like that? If you want to introduce things into your home, but aren’t sure how you can make it fit with your existing decor.

[00:31:55] Moni Castaneda: Yeah. So what I do is I use art a lot. I am. An [00:32:00] artist and so I create art for feng shui purposes. I do a lot of that. But, you don’t necessarily have to buy something that I have painted. You can use something that you already have. And so, for example, Tang Feng Shui consultants, they’ll tell you to bring money.

[00:32:14] You have to use a money cure, which is three Chinese coins tied with a red ribbon and with a little piece of jade hanging from that. But you can also call, not specifically money, but call abundance with the image of a waterfall in your foyer. So that it looks like the water is coming in. Right. And I say abundance instead of money, because money is very limited.

[00:32:40] I like to say money is a pronoun. Not all the blessings that come to your life come through money. So sometimes, you know, just abundance comes to you in different ways. Abundance can come to you in the form of discounts. Like I have a student that. [00:33:00] She uses a tool that we teach you how to use that is called the wealth poster that is similar to a vision board that different.

[00:33:07] And and so the day she decides to go buy something that she’s put on her wealth poster that day it is on sale. And I joke that she can’t buy something full price if she tries. Whenever she goes, it’s like she’s attuned to her city that she just knows when to go and she has things for half price, 75 percent off.

[00:33:28] And so blessings can come to you through discounts. Blessings can come to you through favors. The things that people do for you for free things can come to you as gifts. So one time, you know, when my children were little. A stranger came to knock on our door to give us tickets to a play for children and so like, why is the stranger coming to our door?

[00:33:53] And he says, I’m a friend of your friend down the street. And he told me that your son is in to Dora at [00:34:00] the Explorer and Diego. And I have these tickets and we can go. Would you like to have them? Other time we’re going to go to, we live in Tennessee, you know, so we’re going to go to splash country, which is associated with Dollywood.

[00:34:13] So it’s a theme park in the water theme park. And as we were approaching the door and they’re not cheap tickets, you know, as well, it’d be a pretty penny. This couple approaches us and they tell us we got four day passes, but we could only be here three days and we have to leave, would you like to have them?

[00:34:31] Right? And so these kinds of things happen to you when you’re open to abundance and abundance can, of course, come through money. And, you know, the thing with money is money is very comfortable. Money is comfortable because when you get money, you get to choose. Money gives you the power to choose how you spend it.

[00:34:51] But when you’re asking for abundance, that abundance may come in a way that you were not expecting or in a way that you can’t easily trade. Right?[00:35:00] But if you’re just thinking about money, you limit yourself to only one way in which the universe can bring you blessings. So yeah, money is fantastic, but you also need to be open to other ways.

[00:35:14] And sometimes it comes as people willing to help. Yeah. And so that’s one example, and so there’s other examples where they might have like another for example, Mandarin ducks. A couple of mandarin ducks is a cure for relationships and they’re very cute. But maybe you don’t have a home where you would put that kind of a decoration.

[00:35:38] So maybe you do, maybe you don’t, right? And so you can put a couple of hearts in the relationship corner instead of the mandarin ducks. And it could be a couple of crystal hearts if you’re into crystals. And so you get to choose the things that you’re going to use to enhance all the areas of your life in your [00:36:00] home in ways that they go with your furniture.

[00:36:03] They go with your choices that are in colors that you like. Right. You could also say, for example, put an image of two flowers in that corner to promote the idea of being a couple and the idea of being equal. And so this is one that is going to make so much sense when I tell you the story.

[00:36:21] I don’t know if you ever heard of the three legged frog. I don’t think I have. Well, the three legged frog is a feng shui cure for money. Where there’s a frog that is missing one of the hind legs and is carrying a coin in the mouth. And so, there’s a legend associated with that, that this frog was came out of a well.

[00:36:47] And this farmer, you know, his first instinct was to squash the three legged frog, but he decided not to. And then the frog would reward his compassion by diving to the bottom of the well and [00:37:00] retrieving the coins that people put there for wishes, and giving them to the farmer. And there’s more than one version of this story, right?

[00:37:06] So when you know the story, it’s a cute story. But when you don’t know the story, it’s a handicapped frog. If you found a frog with three legs in your backyard, You will get concerned. You would have compassion, sympathy for the frog, but you would also be concerned if you live near a nuclear plant and you see a three legged frog, you would be even more concerned, right?

[00:37:30] And so using that kind of a cure, it may not go with your decoration, but it also may give you a little bit of a scare, right? Like that part of your brain that is instinctive will be like, what’s wrong with this? You know, why do you have that? And so. It’s better to use like I said, the waterfall or a water fountain or other images like the image of a dolphin usually is a really good image for bringing in money.

[00:37:55] You could use a golden egg because we have a story of the goose [00:38:00] with the golden eggs, right? And so you could use images from your culture that have positive associations for you. You don’t necessarily have to use the Chinese decorations and symbols. And I’m not against using them. You know, sometimes my clients use them and that’s fine.

[00:38:17] But over time, you know, because I’ve been doing this for over 20 years. Over time, my clients choose those kinds of feng shui cures less and less because they want to use things that are personalized for them and they want to use things that mean something to them. Yes. 

[00:38:35] Desiree Stanley: Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you for sharing those stories with us.

[00:38:39] And we’re a reminder about abundance being more then just the money itself and how abundance can really, it’s around us if we’re looking at it from a different perspective, again, it’s like you said, gifts that perhaps somebody is giving you. [00:39:00] And it came from nowhere. It was just out of the blue or the discounts, like you described.

[00:39:04] I love that. It’s such a great reminder that. We don’t need to just focus on the money part of it. If we’re looking at the whole picture, it’s so much more than that, but it does buy us choices. And that is for sure. 

[00:39:18] Moni Castaneda: Yeah. And the money’s wonderful because of that, because it gives you this power to choose, right?

[00:39:23] And having the power to choose feels wonderful. And so what I want you to do is I want you to invite the money. I want you to like money. I want you to be ready to receive money. And any other blessings that come your way. 

[00:39:38] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love that. Well, again, thank you for sharing that. And I just want to ask you, you’ve got a personality test that you have available and I believe on your website, but would you share a little bit more about that with us now?

[00:39:56] How you developed that and where we can [00:40:00] find the link? 

[00:40:01] Moni Castaneda: Okay, so when you go to my website and my website is ninestepstofengshui.com. And if you all spelled out right nine steps to feng shui.com and you can also go there by typing spacearrangement.com that takes you to nine steps to feng shui.com If you don’t know how to spell feng shui.

[00:40:23] And you are gonna see in my menu, there’s a link that says. Low cost and free resources. If you click on that link, you’ll see all the free and low cost resources we offer, including a link to the personality test. And you’re also going to see, like, on the right hand of our menu, you’re going to see if I’m doing any current events Because what I want people is to come into my circle, right?

[00:40:50] Go to my website come into my circle, check out my YouTube channel, follow me on Instagram, on TikTok, on LinkedIn. My handle is at [00:41:00] fengshui4us, and so come into my circle, check us out, check out my company look at the before and after photos. And then if you’re in my circle, when I have a special event and you get the chance to come into my inner circle, you’re already going to be there.

[00:41:17] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I love that. Thank you for sharing those with us. And I’ll, of course, include all of that information in the show notes. So the listeners can easily find your website and Instagram and all of that. And then I believe you’ve also written a book as well. 

[00:41:34] Moni Castaneda: Yeah, yeah. I’ve written several books, but this is my favorite.

[00:41:37] Room by Room, Feng Shui Secrets for a Happy Life. So this is a book that has almost no pictures, and my other books that I have written, they’re manuals full of pictures and illustrations, but people who have read this book, Room by Room Feng Shui Secrets for a Happy Life, they have improved their homes more with this book than with my [00:42:00] manuals, because this is an emotional book that tells the story of three homes and four generations, so it’s the home of my grandmother, which the home of my parents and the home that my husband and I have where we raised our family and so it’s a really good book because it it shows you the effects of feng shui, what happens when you have good feng shui, what happens when you have bad feng shui, and what you can do to improve the feng shui of your home.

[00:42:25] So it’s a really good place to start. To start getting like your feet wet into the world of Feng Shui and to see if you like it. And also, you know, when, when you’re in business, you want people to feel your energy. To see if you’re a good match, right? Like all people we’re talking about the human energy field, you know, all people use their human energy field to scan the energy of others.

[00:42:50] And when you go into a website, when you go into a podcast, you get the feeling, you get the vibe, right? So read the book, come to the website and see if you like us and [00:43:00] see, come into my circle and then you get a chance to come into my inner circle when I’m doing events or when I’m, having specials or offers.

[00:43:07] So I do offer home consultations, which are done all online. So I have clients from all over the world. And I also offer feng shui consultant training. After I developed my system, I also created a school and I train people to become feng shui consultants. And we’ve trained people. All over the world too.

[00:43:27] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. That’s fabulous. I love it. And thank you for sharing that book with us. And I think you pointed out that there’s not a lot of pictures in there, but it’s a very emotional story. And so I think also what tends to happen, at least for me is if I see pictures, and although they can be inspirational, you also, I think can feel like if you’re not doing it exactly that way, you’re not doing it right, but by reading the descriptions and ideas and suggestions, I think that that leaves that open for [00:44:00] you, right? Not feeling sort of pigeonholed into how it has to be exactly. 

[00:44:05] Moni Castaneda: And so, yeah. It activates your memory and your imagination because when I’m talking about my grandmother’s home, there’s no way you’re not going to think about your grandmother’s home.

[00:44:15] Right? And so, and it’s the same principle behind having a podcast, right? The reason people love podcasts and they’re so popular and why so many people are listening to podcasts instead of streaming videos today is because the podcast invites you to participate. It invites your own imagination to get activated. People say an image is a thousand words, but also words can generate a thousand images. 

[00:44:44] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love that. Great point. Well, and so speaking of books, is there any other books that you’d like to suggest for the listeners to take a look at that might help further their education in feng shui?

[00:44:59] Moni Castaneda: I would say just [00:45:00] start with this one. And then at the back of the book, it’s going to tell you what other books we have. And just, you can just get them in the order they are suggested at the back of this book. This is the best book to start with because it’s going to help you understand why Feng Shui is important and what it can do for you.

[00:45:21] The rest is tactics, techniques, right? And so that is the best book to start with, Room by Room, Feng Shui Secrets for a Happy Life. And then I do have the other books, I have Feng Shui for the Home, Feng Shui for Decluttering, Feng Shui for Landscaping. But of course, the problem with books is books are flat.

[00:45:40] And your home is three dimensional, right? And so, yes, read the books and be able to identify when you start to need help, when you start to need guidance. 

[00:45:52] Desiree Stanley: Good point. Thank you for sharing the details on that too, that there’s more like episodes, if you will, more [00:46:00] editions of the book that will continue to teach you more as you get to that point.

[00:46:04] So thank you for sharing that. And again, I’ll include all of that in the show notes, Moni. Thank you. Enjoyed our conversation. I really feel like you have shared with us some fabulous points and I love it. So thank you so much for your time and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us today.

[00:46:24] Moni Castaneda: Thank you for inviting me. It’s been a pleasure. 

[00:46:27] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. We’ll talk more soon.

[00:46:30] Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and empower you to achieve your goals. And thanks again for listening.

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POK_Dr Catherine Darley Podcast_12_13_2023
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Dr. Catherine Darley. Welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you on. You’re going to be sharing with us some really wonderful information about sleep, and this is big. So let’s start off by having you share a little bit about how you decided to establish Skilled Sleeper, and what was it that led up to that? And kind of the path that directed you to [00:01:00] that. 

[00:01:01] Dr Catherine Darley: Well, thank you so much for being here. I’m really glad to be here Desiree. My Interest in sleep actually started at the end of high school and into college. I did a couple research projects in sleep, and that got me a job offer in a sleep research center.

[00:01:17] And when I was there working as a technologist doing these research protocols, I was thinking, well, how do Do I want to approach the sleep when I’m a professional? Do I want to do research? Do I want to work with people who have obstructive sleep apnea or insomnia? And I was already familiar with the field of naturopathic medicine, which is really about treating the cause and using natural therapies whenever possible.

[00:01:48] Not that it’s always possible. So that’s where I decided to get my medical training and the lens that I was going to approach sleep from. [00:02:00] My work with Skilled Sleeper is really about building those sleep skills. One of the things I wish would happen and I think would have a big impact on our society and people’s health is if sleep skills were taught in high school health classes.

[00:02:18] But they’re not, and so there’s a lot of room to grow skills. Sometimes when I’m teaching a class, I will mention something that is really a small little sleep skill, and somebody will reach out to me afterwards and say, this one thing changed my sleep so profoundly. And that really makes me understand that there is a gap in understanding.

[00:02:45] Desiree Stanley: Oh, my gosh, that’s awesome. Thank you for sharing the kind of background on how this led to your path. And I think that’s such a great concept about teaching skills at the younger ages so that it [00:03:00] can have such an impact on the rest of your life. I think that that’s an amazing idea. And you are really awesome.

[00:03:09] Kind of a pioneering international expert on, on sleep. And, and you mentioned about the natural and behavioral kind of realm, because it can be both right. It may be you may need some medical, as you described, like, If you’ve got sleep apnea or whatever, and so you need to kind of go that route, but you also are natural and behavioral as well.

[00:03:33] So maybe do you want to expand on that and kind of what those differences are? 

[00:03:39] Dr Catherine Darley: Sure. I think about behavioral strategies as components of your lifestyle and actions that you can take. When I mentioned someone coming back to me after just a really simple recommendation, we know that Exercise improves sleep.

[00:03:58] I think many people have [00:04:00] heard that. So, she was really diligently exercising in the evenings after work, but she was having difficulty falling asleep. From the science, we know that exercising after 7 p. m. tends to push your body clock later, making it harder to fall asleep. Just by moving her exercise earlier in the day had a huge impact on her sleep.

[00:04:24] And that would be an example of one of those behavioral strategies. The other piece is you know, other lifestyle factors. And then there’s also, of course, supplements. But the lifestyle factors make a much bigger difference than many people realize. And they’re easy. They don’t have negative side effects.

[00:04:49] So I, I like those because they really leave people empowered with the knowledge of how to take care of themselves. And it has a ripple effect. When a person’s sleeping well, their blood [00:05:00] sugar is more controlled, their blood pressure is lower, etc., etc. 

[00:05:05] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s a wonderful point that you brought up about those lifestyle changes that are really giving you a sense of, of empowerment because you are choosing to make these changes and what a difference it can make.

[00:05:21] And That’s such a great point to about the time of day that you’re exercising and remembering what happens, if you’re working out later at night, and I know everybody’s schedule is different and you kind of sometimes have to fit it in where you can, but if your sleep is being compromised, and maybe it’s something that you need to rethink and see if it’s possible to move it to a different time of day in order to have better sleep at night.

[00:05:47] So that’s a great reminder. And, you know. I want to focus a little bit on how these kinds of sleep problems are affecting women. And like, [00:06:00] what are the common things that are affecting women? Because I’m a woman and most of the podcast listeners, you know, fall into that general category. So what are the common things that women are seeing?

[00:06:14] And let’s talk about that. 

[00:06:17] Dr Catherine Darley: Yes, thank you for asking this because we do know that as soon as a young woman starts having her menstrual cycle and through the rest of life, a higher percentage of women at each age group have sleep complaints compared to the men their age.

[00:06:35] And that is just consistent once puberty hits. So lots of need there, right? And I don’t know that people necessarily know that. Sleep disorders also are underdiagnosed more in women or they’re missed more often in women. Once Puberty starts, women have more complaints of insomnia. [00:07:00] Then during the reproductive years, particularly during pregnancies, women will have an increase in restless leg syndrome, and they’ll also have an increase in obstructive sleep apnea.

[00:07:12] And this is all related to the physical changes that a woman’s body goes through during pregnancy. With the obstructive sleep apnea, it’s due to, in part, that edema that can accumulate as a woman goes through the pregnancy, causing tissue swelling, and the tissue swelling actually affects the airway, so it’s more easily obstructed in later pregnancy.

[00:07:40] The reason we need to talk about this is because if a woman has obstructive sleep apnea during late pregnancy, it increases her risk of developing preeclampsia, which is a quite serious medical condition in pregnancy that can lead to kidney and liver [00:08:00] damage. It also can lead to preterm delivery and low birth weight babies if a woman has untreated obstructive sleep apnea during pregnancy.

[00:08:10] So those are really serious concerns that we want people, women, to be empowered knowing, okay, this is a risk. I can’t just wait until after the pregnancy when the obstructive sleep apnea resolves. I need to treat it now. Oh, I was just going to finish by talking about postmenopausal women.

[00:08:30] Postmenopausal women have the highest rates of restless legs of any age group. It’s over 50 percent of older women have restless leg syndrome, which corresponds with poor sleep. Your sleep stages actually change with restless leg syndrome, greater complaints of insomnia and that is also something that we need to treat.

[00:08:56] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and I, have my mother [00:09:00] and I remember stories of my grandmother talking about the restless leg, and I can completely see how that would be disruptive to a quality night of sleep. Not just that. But the irritation that that. Would cause but not to get sidetracked since that, is a completely separate issue, but what are some things that perhaps can be done to help combat these things that, I mean, are we talking about hormones, as we’re going through puberty and then, you know, the the changes that are happening physically when you’re pregnant.

[00:09:36] Obviously, those things, you know, time will tell, but you know, is there anything that can be done to help improve the quality of your sleep? 

[00:09:46] Dr Catherine Darley: Yeah, so those disorders that I mentioned, definitely the individual needs to go to their primary care provider and get treatments. The way that I think about it is also [00:10:00] that we each can adopt what I call a sleep healthy lifestyle, because sleep doesn’t just start when you turn out the lights and get into bed.

[00:10:10] Having a healthy sleep system and a circadian rhythm really starts from the time you start your day, when you first wake up. We are starting to recognize really the importance of our circadian system. Our circadian system is this 24 hour fluctuation in the function of our body. For example, our digestion.

[00:10:36] Digestive system is designed to be on and processed food during the day. If you’ve ever worked shift work, or stayed up late to do a project, or gotten up early for travel, and tried to eat at a time that you usually are sleeping, you may have had the experience of that food just sitting there. That’s pretty common, because our digestion is just [00:11:00] not designed to process food in the middle of the night during our sleep period.

[00:11:05] And basically every organ has different times of day that it does more or less of its process. What people may not know is that that circadian system is designed to be in sync with the natural environment, with the outside world. So when we first wake up, getting outside for 20 minutes within the first two hours of the day sends our body this strong signal.

[00:11:36] It is daytime, time to switch into daytime physiology, time to wake up, and we need that signal. The difficulty is That in the built environment with electric light, unless we’re going outside, we’re not getting that strong light signal inside is usually only one hundredth of how bright it [00:12:00] is outside, and our physiology is really designed for those outdoor light levels, and that really has a big influence, not only on how our day is and how alert we are and energetic and ready to go, but it also plays a part in how we sleep the following night. 

[00:12:22] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing the detail of that about the circadian rhythm.

[00:12:27] I know that many of us have heard bits and pieces of it, not necessarily understanding, like, the full picture of how that impacts the body and the cycles that the body is going through, as you said, the digestion and how different organs are intended to do things at certain times. And I can see how that would really be

[00:12:47] negatively impact people who have to work, you know, nighttime shifts or swing shifts or shifts that are out of the typical daytime routine. So [00:13:00] let’s talk a little bit about some things that I have experienced myself and that’s, falling asleep, maybe I wake up at some point during the night and now my brain is on and I can’t stop thinking.

[00:13:14] And it’s the randomest things. It may be like stuff I have to do later in the day or something I forgot to do the previous day, or like, where’s my birth certificate, you know, or something silly like that. And then you just can’t turn it off. So what, what do you suggest that listeners do? And I’m curious as well, when something like that is happening.

[00:13:35] Dr Catherine Darley: Well I’ve got two things I’d like to talk about here. First of all, one of the reasons that that is happening is that if you are getting light at night, you know, think about what it’s like when you’re camping out in the boonies, right? It is very dark at night, and that is what our human physiology is designed for.

[00:13:59] Yet, when [00:14:00] we’re in our home environment, we may have night lights or clocks or our phone or some kind of lighting in our bedroom that’s brighter than the natural environment. When you get that artificial light at night, it actually raises your cortisol at night, which usually cortisol should be quite low.

[00:14:22] That could be part of what’s waking you up is this elevated cortisol. The other thing I’d like to comment on is just a strategy, and I love this strategy. I’ve given this to at least a thousand people, and really only a handful of people told me that it was too hard to do, and even smaller groups said they did it consistently, and it didn’t help.

[00:14:46] Almost everybody truthfully says that this helps. First, you want to adopt the attitude that during sleep hours, you’re just resting. You’re not taking care of your roles and responsibilities. [00:15:00] I know this can be a little bit hard in terms of we’ve got our phones, right? And we can be in contact with our friends, our family, and our bosses 24 7 but as best you can, take on the attitude that you are mentally off duty. Of course, there’s going to be exceptions for those times that we have to care for little ones or ill family members or whatnot. Once you take on that attitude, spend 10 minutes, an hour before bed, doing a brain dump. Writing down those things that come up, checking off your to do list.

[00:15:38] That’s what sounds like comes up for you or making that to do list for the day ahead, pre planning. Whatever form you want could be a list, could be full sentence, narrative, could be thought bubbles. And then once you get into bed, if your mind starts going, develop a phrase [00:16:00] in advance that helps settle your thoughts.

[00:16:02] Something like, I already took care of that. I will have time tomorrow. Now’s my time to rest. It’s really about thought stopping, but also limit setting for within yourself. Just like you would if a little kid came up and said, Hey, help me with such and such, and you’re in the middle of fixing dinner.

[00:16:22] You’d probably say to the child, I will help you, but not now. Like this time is designated for making dinner. So do that with yourself. I will think about that, but not now. Now is my sleep time. And then, once you’ve kicked your thoughts out of bed, you need to do something that will actually help you fall to sleep.

[00:16:42] And there’s a bunch of strategies you can do progressive muscle relaxation. Starting with your toes, tighten your toes for a count of seven, relax them, let them fall heavy in the bed, and just slowly move up your body. You could do a gratitude practice. That [00:17:00] can be very lovely thing to do. Help you drift off to sleep and feel all the benefits of gratitude, which we know are many.

[00:17:08] The strategy that I love is to have a bedtime story that you tell yourself. If you ever realize you’re awake, this is the one that I use. I just made up a. A story of a family going apple picking, which I think is fun, and it needs to be a story that doesn’t have any, you know, negative connotations for you, right?

[00:17:30] Not, it can’t be a psychothriller. And basically, if I ever am awake in bed, I go, oh, I’m awake in bed, and I just start my story at the beginning, and I just kind of recite it until I’m asleep. Choosing a story from childhood or a movie, making up one. It just, it’s kind of the story of Going through someone’s day.

[00:17:51] Nothing too exciting. That can be a great strategy also. 

[00:17:55] Desiree Stanley: Those are some excellent suggestions. Thank you for sharing those. I love that [00:18:00] idea of the brain dump. I mean, I do have my to do lists and sometimes forget to take the time at the end of the day to put all those things down that I need to worry about the next day.

[00:18:13] So that’s a great reminder. And I love the idea of saying. I’ve thought about that already. I’m going to handle that tomorrow. Now is my time to sleep. That’s another great suggestion. I love it. So thank you for sharing it. And yes, there are probably a gazillion apps that you can download that will help also with some of the meditative sounds or, you know, stories, Calm is a great one and I personally use that. I love it. They’ve got such great ones like you suggested about doing the muscle tension and relaxing from toe to head. And that’s another fantastic idea. So thank you for sharing that. So let’s talk now about what can [00:19:00] happen when you’re sleep deprived and you know how that’s going to impact your daily life.

[00:19:07] Dr Catherine Darley: Yes, so sleep deprivation is more serious, I think, than many people realize. Right now, it’s about 36 percent of Americans who are getting six hours or less sleep on work nights, and that’s just not sufficient. It’s probably sufficient for about 2 percent of the population, but the rest of us need more. We need between seven and nine hours.

[00:19:33] That seven to nine hours is a bell curve. So each of us have, have one specific point where we fall. Like I’m a eight and a quarter hours. That’s how much I need. If I got seven, even though it’s within that range, I would be sleep deprived. I’d be missing an hour and a quarter of sleep, and I’d be having consequences.

[00:19:55] One of the unfortunate things about sleep deprivation, Desiree, is that [00:20:00] once a person has been sleep deprived partially for three nights, they lose awareness on how much their performance is impacted. After the first night, after the second night of sleep deprivation, they will say, you know, I’m not doing as well at work as I usually do.

[00:20:20] But after that third night, it’s like their baseline assessment adjusts down and they will say something like, you know, I think I got used to this. You measure their performance and their well being. It’s still tanked, but they just don’t realize it. So I think about the effects of sleep deprivation in five domains.

[00:20:43] You’ve got your physical and mental health, everything from blood sugar control, which is such an issue for so many women, hypertension, and then mental health. anxiety, depression. Anxiety notably increases with just one hour of [00:21:00] sleep deprivation. Then you’ve got your physical and cognitive performance.

[00:21:05] Everything from remembering the mail carrier’s name, simple memory, to really complex problem solving. You know, for you to design this podcast and meet the needs of your listeners, that’s a lot of analytical work, right? And researching and knowing what issues women are really struggling with and want more information on, that’s going to be impaired.

[00:21:29] Physical performance, whether or not you work in a physical job, many of us drive, that requires a lot of physical performance. And then the Part that’s really interesting and is getting a lot more interest and just recognition in the last, I’d say, five years, is emotional intelligence. That is really impacted by our sleep.

[00:21:53] Things like, if I’m sleep deprived and I come home and I look at my loved ones, I [00:22:00] can’t tell if my loved one is happy or angry. Think about all the times that we walk into a situation, we opens the door at home, or we are interacting with people at the grocery store, or at work. And we want to respond differently to someone if they look angry than if they look happy.

[00:22:17] If you’re sleep deprived, you’re missing that information. You’re not necessarily able to respond appropriately to them. 

[00:22:24] Desiree Stanley: Wow, that’s Amazing. I had no idea. And so thank you for sharing all of that with us. Just the idea of missing even an hour over, you know, multiple days, the kind of effects that that can have and the performance levels.

[00:22:41] I mean, who knew? I certainly had no idea that that By the third day or whatever your your level of how you think you’re performing is just like dropping And now you’ve got this low bar that you’ve set without even realizing it but thank you again [00:23:00] for going into the detail because I think that this is such important information and the idea that we can’t even tell what our loved ones are like feeling Because we are sleep deprived.

[00:23:14] I mean, again, had no idea. And that’s huge. I think that that, even not just with our loved ones, but like you said, if we’re at a store and there’s somebody who’s responding and how you respond to it is going to be affected. And I think that when we look around at what’s happening, you know, in our communities and in the nation and in the world, maybe We could all use more sleep and we might be dealing with each other in a little bit more kindly manner, but that’s probably very simplistic, but I think it’s still important to recognize that we are all probably sleep deprived and we don’t realize it.

[00:23:52] So let’s talk a little bit more about how relationships can be affected by the lack of sleep. And if, if [00:24:00] we’re not just talking about one person who’s sleep deprived, but Both people or your partner, you know, your children, whoever is in your life could be sleep deprived as well. And so what’s happening there?

[00:24:12] Dr Catherine Darley: Yeah, so certainly it can affect the whole household system or your work team and whatnot. One of the other unfortunate pieces that happens is that when a person is sleep deprived, they make more they make more self centered decisions. Frankly, yeah, their moral and ethical reasoning shifts so that they’re weighing their self centered concerns more heavily than when they’re well rested.

[00:24:44] So that’s gonna change people’s relationships, especially over time. You know, people are forgiving, right? We’re all gonna be forgiving, but if someone is chronically sleep deprived, then we might start thinking, oh, that’s their personality. Right? That’s the [00:25:00] kind of person they are, or that kind of judgment that we would have.

[00:25:05] Whereas, really, if they were getting enough sleep, they might be behaving quite a bit differently. And this comes up even for office workers. If someone’s sleep deprived in the office, they’re more likely to send tense or angry or Critical emails, just simple emails than if they’re well rested. 

[00:25:26] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, great point. I could totally see that happening. You’re I think level of, what’s the word I’m looking for? Maybe it’s empathy or maybe it’s you know, just using a little bit of grace. And instead of, you know, snapping, 

[00:25:44] Dr Catherine Darley: right, which I think impulse control is one term that we 

[00:25:47] Desiree Stanley: use. Yes. Yeah. I could see that for sure.

[00:25:51] When you’re sleep deprived, you probably don’t have as good impulse control. So let’s talk about what you [00:26:00] think the biggest maybe impact, like a practice that would have the biggest impact on our, our sleep. 

[00:26:11] Dr Catherine Darley: Yes, so I think actually the emerging research about circadian health and how that impacts our sleep really is where there’s new information that people probably haven’t heard.

[00:26:29] So, and I think it’s all about getting those the best light signals. So these are the recommendations for people’s light exposure. During the day, you should be getting 250 lux of light that has blue light. Blue, you know, we have a wavelength of light from blue to red. The morning light and daytime light has more blue, but then sunset is more of that reddish pinkish hue, right?

[00:26:59] So during [00:27:00] the day 250 lux, which is quite bright. If you went into an office that was 250 lux, it would feel abnormally bright, whereas outdoors is over 10, 000 lux. A tip that I would give people or a recommendation is on your smartphone, download a lux meter and then As you’re working with this concept, you can hold it up kind of to the eye level and measure how much light you’re getting.

[00:27:27] You’ll be surprised how very dim your home and office environment is compared to the outside. Three hours before bed, people are supposed to get 10 lux or less. That’s equivalent to 10 candles. Think about what you’re doing. I see the surprise on your face. Yeah, so think about what you’re doing for the three hours before bed.

[00:27:51] My guess is that you have more light than ten candles would give off. If you have a brighter home, [00:28:00] or you’re on electronics, which electronic screens, which give the blue light, That is enough light to suppress your melatonin. Melatonin is a hormone that helps us feel drowsy. It’s typically in a natural light environment like camping.

[00:28:17] It’ll start to rise before we get into bed and help us feel drowsy, but it is suppressed by bright light, particularly blue light and So, in the modern environment, when we get into bed, our melatonin is still zero, and it takes a little while to, to turn on, and that’s, can be part of why it’s taking a long time to fall asleep.

[00:28:40] I think the recommendations of 10 lux for three hours before bed are pretty unrealistic, so I recommend that people wear blue blocking glasses. They look like this. They make everything a really lovely pink color. And if you wear those from 9 p. m. on or for two hours [00:29:00] before bed, it definitely helps your sleep.

[00:29:03] The other thing about melatonin is that we want our levels to be high, during sleep, because they also melatonin also has an action throughout the body as an antioxidant and as an anti inflammatory. So you want to have plenty of time for your melatonin to be active. 

[00:29:22] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing that. And can you tell us like the, the people who are not watching on YouTube, and are strictly listening, you put some glasses on that are almost a rose reddish color.

[00:29:35] So can you maybe share with the listeners like what those are called or where they might be able to find them? 

[00:29:42] Dr Catherine Darley: Yes. So these are called blue blocking glasses. You can find good ones on the internet just by putting that search term in. When you are purchasing them, you want them to have a very reddish orange lens.

[00:29:58] There are some that are [00:30:00] marketed as blue blockers, but they have more of a clear lens or maybe a little bit of a blue reflection. Those are not going to do as well. You really need them to have orange ish colored lenses. And yeah, wear them for two hours before bed is ideal. If only one hour is possible, that’s better than not at all.

[00:30:22] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing the details on that. I had no idea the additional things that melatonin was responsible for in the body. So I think that that’s a great point to know that it’s not just about making you drowsy to, to be sleeping, but that it’s anti inflammatory. I mean, that’s big, right? Yes.

[00:30:48] Again, it’s just this information, I think unless you’re really digging into it and doing a lot of research. Most people don’t realize what is happening here. And [00:31:00] so I, I love that you’re sharing all of this with us and helping us to have a better understanding of why it’s so important and what is happening with the body.

[00:31:11] And I think you, you pointed out about the blood sugar levels and cortisol levels. And again, these are things that. When we’re looking at issues that we’re having, like maybe you’re having difficulty losing weight and you don’t understand why. So these kinds of factors are coming into play as well.

[00:31:31] You know, the sugar levels in your blood and the cortisol levels. And I know we often think like cortisol levels with stress, but not necessarily are relating it to lack of sleep and what’s happening there. So I think this is, again, such a great, great thing to know. So let me ask you this question, is there, top skills or, or other things that you think that the listeners [00:32:00] really need to know?

[00:32:01] And I love the detail you shared on the circadian rhythm and the light and how important it is to bring those light levels down, but is there other skills or other things that the listeners can do to help? 

[00:32:15] Dr Catherine Darley: Yeah, so I use this term sleep healthy lifestyle, and let me just walk you through that. It would mean waking up at the same time.

[00:32:23] One thing that we’re recently getting more data, and even just a study came out this week, showed that the more routine your sleep hours are, the less variable the time you go to bed and wake up are, the better your health is. So the sleep healthy lifestyle would be wake up at the same time, sleep in on the weekends only an hour or less, get bright light within that first two hours.

[00:32:54] Then with your meals, have your meals start at the same time across all seven [00:33:00] days of the week. So for instance, you know, if you’re gonna have breakfast between 730 and 8 on work days, have it that same time on the weekends. Lunch in a half hour window, dinner in a half hour window, or at least the start time of it in that half hour window.

[00:33:17] And then two hours approximately before bed, turn down the lights to that 10 lux level or use the blue blocking glasses, make sure to calm your mind at night so that you don’t have a racing mind. So many women do. And then the bedroom should be very, very dark. A really easy tip is if you hold your hand out arms distance, you should not be able to see your fingers wiggling.

[00:33:48] It should be that dark. That can be hard for people to achieve. You may need to have blackout curtains if you’ve got, you know, a street light outside your [00:34:00] bedroom. If there’s a clock or something glowing, you may need to wear an eye mask or turn the clock to the wall or something of that nature.

[00:34:10] Definitely don’t have a night light on. Certainly you want to have a light that you can easily turn on if you need to get up so that you’ve got light for safety, but you don’t want to have one on all night. 

[00:34:22] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing those. And I had no idea about holding your arm out and wiggling your fingers and not being able to see it.

[00:34:30] And I am certain that my room is too light because I’m sure I would be able to see. You suggested not having a nightlight necessarily, but having something that’s easily accessible. And I think that’s a great tip. Gosh, Dr. Darley, this has been so fantastic. I love all of this information and it’s It’s just so eyeopening.

[00:34:52] And so I thank you for sharing this with us. I want to ask now if there’s any books [00:35:00] that the listeners could maybe look at and see if there’s more information, things that they can learn that can continue to help them develop better sleeping habits. 

[00:35:11] Dr Catherine Darley: Sure, I’m a fan of Dr. Matthew Walker. He has a book, Why We Sleep.

[00:35:16] He also has a podcast and I also wanted to offer to your listeners on my website I have a free download which is a Seven Step Guide to Building Your Own Sleep Health Plan and it kind of guides you through the steps and identifying how much sleep you do best with designing when your meal times and whatnot are gonna be the points that we talked about So people are welcome to get that too.

[00:35:44] Desiree Stanley: Awesome Well, thank you for sharing that and I’ll include the book recommendation and podcast recommendation in the show notes and then at this point, I would love to have you share your website since you just mentioned that there’s some resources there if you want to go ahead and do that [00:36:00] now.

[00:36:01] Dr Catherine Darley: Sure, my work this last year has really been taking my 20 years of patient care experience and winnowing down the main principles and strategies that individuals need to strengthen their own sleep and putting it into courses. I designed the courses to really focus on unique populations. So there’s a course that’s specifically for women’s sleep and it goes through the whole lifespan.

[00:36:29] I’ve got a course for families, one for shift workers and other populations. So you can go to skilledsleeper.com and see the menu of courses. There are about three and a half hours with video lessons, and then the worksheets that systematically guide you through rebuilding your sleep. 

[00:36:49] Desiree Stanley: That’s wonderful.

[00:36:50] Thank you for sharing that and I’ll include that for the listeners to easily find as well. And so before we close out the episode, besides the [00:37:00] website, is there any socials that you’d like to share into Instagram, Facebook, that the listeners can also follow along your journey and what you’re doing, and then maybe ask questions if they’ve got some.

[00:37:13] Dr Catherine Darley: Yes. So I have some social media that’s long form and short form. My short form, I’m on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, for short daily tips and inspiration. And then my long form, I have a newsletter that goes out once a week on Substack. It’s called Be a Skilled Sleeper and it’s about 800, 1000 words where we talk about a sleep subject and then skills to use related to that.

[00:37:42] This last week was all about melatonin, how to use melatonin, the three different reasons to take melatonin and how to do that. And then I also do those in video on YouTube at Be a Skilled Sleeper. 

[00:37:57] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Thank you. And I’ll put all of that [00:38:00] information in the show notes as well. And I love that you are giving options to people for what form they want to, you know, digest this information.

[00:38:11] So I think that’s fantastic. Really serving the different populations, as you said, and also the different ways that we learn, or we like to get our information. So I think that’s fantastic. Dr. Darley, this has been so informative and I truly appreciate your time and your knowledge and coming on the show and sharing that with us.

[00:38:32] Thank you so much. 

[00:38:35] Dr Catherine Darley: Thank you. I hope that this really helps your listeners, Desiree, and I appreciate your work. 

[00:38:41] Desiree Stanley: Thank you. Well, we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:38:44] Dr Catherine Darley: Thanks.

[00:38:45] Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and empower you to achieve your goals. And thanks again for listening.[00:39:00] 

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POK_Bukky Ayoade Podcast_12_06_2023
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: ​ Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today, I’m so honored to have Bukky Ayoade. Welcome to the show. I’m so honored to have you on. Thank you for joining us today. 

[00:00:44] Bukky Ayoade: Hi everybody. Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. 

[00:00:48] Desiree Stanley: And so today we’re going to be talking about menopause, perimenopause, women’s health in respect to that.

[00:00:57] And Bukky, you [00:01:00] have founded the Vibrant Midlife. And so I want you to tell us all about that. How did you come about that? Like, what was the inspiration and what sort of led you down this path? 

[00:01:14] Bukky Ayoade: Okay. I’m a pharmacist by background. I’ve been a pharmacist for what, over three decades and I’ve worked majorly in the pharmaceutical industry.

[00:01:25] So this was 2019. I’ve done a lot of consulting work, et cetera. 2019 was my last contract. And it was a contract that, you know, it took so much out of me. And I just stopped and I thought, you know what, I need to be doing something that’s on purpose that I believe God has designed me for.

[00:01:45] So I just took time out. I just thought, you know what, I need to stop doing this. And I think it was significant because it was the year I was 55 as well so I stopped. Cut a long story short, I, did career coaching, did a whole lot of [00:02:00] stuff. And I’m a pharmacist, but I’m the pharmacist that doesn’t like to take medicine.

[00:02:03] So I’m always looking for the natural solution. I knew that when I crystallized what I was going to be doing, I knew that I was going to work in healthcare still. I knew that I was going to work with women. I knew that I was going to work with women. My, roughly my age or thereabouts, and that was it.

[00:02:20] And so I did all of that piece of work and I just parked it. I went away. This was October, November, back end of that year, went away and came back in January. I had, a rest. I was refreshed and I thought, okay, let me get back into consulting work. But then the pandemic hit.

[00:02:39] And the pandemic hit, there were no contracts, there was no Pharma work, I was at home doing nothing. So I’m like, what do I do? And I just got, it just got laid on me. Okay, all of that background work that you had done, go and pull it out and start to create what you’ve, you know, what you said you were going to do.[00:03:00] 

[00:03:00] And so that’s what I did. And I worked with a consultant to help me brand and. Come through and a Vibrant Midlife came about because I knew I was going to work with midlife women. So midlife had to show up somewhere in the, in the whole thing. But when you Google midlife, the first thing you see is midlife crisis.

[00:03:17] And I was like, no, we’re not going down that route. And I just wanted to bring a different perspective to midlife. So we came through with various words, et cetera, et cetera. And we came, came up with Vibrant Midlife, which apparently a lot of people like. And I love it too. 

[00:03:36] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s wonderful.

[00:03:37] Thank you for sharing that background with us. And so deciding to launch this, you said that it was something that you felt passionate about, right? And, and passionate about working with women in the age group that you were in and you know, Before and after because we’re going to be talking about perimenopause, which can affect women who are much [00:04:00] younger than their fifties, right?

[00:04:02] So why don’t we start with that? Let’s talk a little bit about the differences between perimenopause and Menopause and then you know how that kind of begins and transitions for women. 

[00:04:17] Bukky Ayoade: Okay, so Menopause itself is one time point. It’s one time point when a woman has Not had a period for 12 consecutive months.

[00:04:31] At that point, at that time point, after 12 consecutive months. So it has to be, the stress is on the consecutive. You know, you count 1 to 12 and you’ve missed a period for 12 consecutive months. At that time point, we would say a woman has hit her menopause. What’s important is that all of that period.

[00:04:52] Before, before that time point, which is the perimenopause, because that’s when a woman will start to [00:05:00] experience symptoms. And that’s the period leading up to, to the menopause is the period where I speak to women, I say, be aware of this time as you’re coming from your late thirties to early forties, and start to recognize changes.

[00:05:19] Because once we recognize changes, we know what’s happening. We can then obviously bring through solutions that will help manage symptoms. We bring through solutions of, you know, you spoke to lifestyle that set us up for a healthier life as we age. So yeah, the perimenopause is what we seriously need to be aware of.

[00:05:42] When our symptoms start to start to come through, typically what are the symptoms? You know, it could be changing our periods. You know, frequency, it could be, you know, lighter periods, heavier periods, the classic one that everybody thinks or knows of is [00:06:00] the hot flushes. It could be gut issues, it could be joint pain, and when we progress, we can talk about these different things.

[00:06:11] So yeah, that’s, that’s the difference. 

[00:06:14] Desiree Stanley: Okay, great, thank you for kind of detailing that for us and I think that some things you pointed out in there are really interesting because you mentioned gut issues and I don’t know that we typically think that that’s an indicator for. Perimenopause. I think that that’s something that people often attribute to other issues, right?

[00:06:38] And not realizing that this could be a part of that, you know, larger picture. So that’s really good to know. And then joint pain as well. Another thing that could be attributed to many other things. And then realizing that that could also be an indicator that you’re kind of going through this perimenopause.

[00:06:57] And so, yes, excellent information. I think, thank [00:07:00] you for sharing that. And you touched a little bit on the lifestyle. And so let’s dig into that a little bit more, like what we can do as we’re going through this perimenopause period and then into menopause and beyond to really set us up for. A healthy lifestyle and life as we’re aging.

[00:07:23] Bukky Ayoade: Okay, so I think even before I speak about that is to first recognize that every woman’s experience of the menopause and perimenopause is unique. So whatever you’re looking to do, we should always be thinking to have an individualized approach. Typically, with a woman that just, without any

[00:07:45] and you can then submit it to the body with the special content of the description. I’ll just put it like this. You’re going to submit it to the font, the paragraph on the page. Good and then the question. If you find something that you found that you need help with. Just type in [00:08:00] the text, and theoser, and then I’ll get from there.

[00:08:03] So know your symptoms, but also be aware of your underlying health. So just your vital numbers, your blood pressure, the cholesterol, the blood sugars, all of those kind of things. Have your baselines, be conscious of those. I also, when I speak with women and within our framework, my starting point typically is mindset.

[00:08:27] I say, you know, have a mindset of well being, because that positivity, that, can do, we, we will overcome this, we will work through this, is also very, very helpful to help women navigate this transition. The other thing is get the right support. Don’t do midlife alone. So, so those are some of the things.

[00:08:52] When we talk about lifestyle the aspects that can help us, you know, it’s the [00:09:00] classic well being pillar. So it will, it will be your nutrition. It will be your physical activity. It will be how you manage stress. It will be, you know, the quality of your sleep hygiene. It will your relationships.

[00:09:13] It will be the, your relationship with alcohol, smoking, those kinds of things. Those are, you know, the main lifestyle pillars that we, that we will look at. And then as we progress, if you want me to dig deeper into various things, I can do that. That’s not a problem. 

[00:09:30] Desiree Stanley: Well, no, those are some great points that you brought up just right from the start remembering that this is an individual experience.

[00:09:37] So although, you know, collectively as women, we all go through this, we are all individual. We are all going to have different, unique experiences and making sure that we are working with our doctor, and this, I think, can take us on a whole nother path in speaking to professionals about how to manage this.

[00:09:55] But to remember that we are all going to have a unique experience and make sure [00:10:00] that we’re like you said, our numbers are good, our cholesterol, our heart health you know, blood sugars, all of that. Of course, is is absolutely imperative and knowing those as you move forward. And so that’s, those are some great points, I think, to keep in mind.

[00:10:17] And I love that you pointed out also about mindset and having that mindset of positivity that, this is a challenging time. It’s a transition, a change that we’re going through and working from a positive mindset can make a difference. I love that you shared that too. 

[00:10:37] Bukky Ayoade: The other thing I wanted to just point out as you were speaking that came through to me was the fact that because of the depletion in our hormones.

[00:10:45] Some of those cardiovascular and metabolic aspects that you, that you mentioned that happens as a matter of course, even without menopause, even without the perimenopause and symptoms that we experienced, just because we are [00:11:00] losing estrogen, it impacts on our cardiac health, it impacts on our metabolic health.

[00:11:05] You’ve got like a double whammy, so it’s a period of time where a woman does really need to pay attention to herself, you know, need to, need to listen to her body and understand that these changes, when things start to happen, not, you know, we’re quick to go to the doctor and we’re quick to go to the But what will, what is important is if you’re aware of your symptoms, you’re tracking your symptoms, it helps you have an informed conversation with the healthcare professional when you get there.

[00:11:37] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s excellent. Another great point there in keeping aware of what is happening in your body and monitoring that. So, like you said, you can have a really well informed discussion and not just, you know, random. So that’s an excellent point. Let’s talk a little bit then about some more of the physical and emotional changes that are starting to [00:12:00] happen as we transition through this period.

[00:12:03] Bukky Ayoade: Okay, so I talk about symptoms, I classify them into three groups. So we have the physical symptoms, which are, I’ve said, the hot flushes, the night sweats, the you know, we start to lay weight down along the middle. That’s nature’s way of trying to protect women and then you’re thinking, no, I don’t want this.

[00:12:26] So you change in body shape. I talked about, sometimes you get this, some migraine type headache muscle pain, joint pain skin changes. Those are some of the physical symptoms. So if we took at the emotional cycle, well, we call them cycle. I call them psychological symptoms.

[00:12:45] Obviously, that’s the mood changes that irritability. It could be exacerbated anxiety or onset of anxiety. So a woman that. It’s not had the experience anxiety before suddenly lack of focus, [00:13:00] lack of concentration. So that one they call the brain fog and then another group of important symptoms that are possibly less spoken about they call GSM.

[00:13:12] So sometimes I struggle to pronounce the word genital urinary symptoms. So just the vaginal symptoms. So we’re talking vaginal dryness, itching, pain, painful intercourse, and, you know, to the extent that it’s important for women to be aware of all of these things because our symptoms can impact our lives significantly impact our working lives, impact our personal lives, impact our intimate relationships.

[00:13:42] And so we need to be aware, we need to be having those open, honest conversations with our nearest and dearest to help them understand what we’re going through. Because I say to women all the time. You can’t have a headache every night. You can’t have a headache every night. I’ve [00:14:00] talked about the top line, you know, the more, more common symptoms.

[00:14:03] There are some so less common, so things like sensitivity to noise, for example, things like changes in body odor, you know, a woman going through this transition may have that’s not, it’s not even an uncommon symptom, may have a reduced libido, those kinds of aspects. It’s just being aware of all of those kinds of things.

[00:14:26] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. Thank you for sharing those with us. And I think that we often hear about the brain fog and lack of concentration and lack of focus irritability. I think those are pretty common for a lot of women during this time. So I think we hear a lot about those, but then, you know, you mentioned some things that.

[00:14:48] We don’t often hear about and could be very disconcerting and that’s change in body odor or change in, you know, skin condition and you know, all of that. It’s [00:15:00] it’s so good to have this information, I think, because then you feel like I’m not alone is I’m not the only one who’s had this experience.

[00:15:07] There’s not something wrong with me. 

[00:15:10] Bukky Ayoade: Absolutely. Right. Yeah, it’s just recognizing that at this phase of life, I have hormones that impact all our, most of our body symptoms, they are dropping. And so, and this is the way that this is the effect that manifests when that happens. Just knowing those things is very helpful. 

[00:15:32] Desiree Stanley: For sure. Let’s talk then a little bit about how we can alleviate maybe some of these symptoms that we’re experiencing. 

[00:15:42] Bukky Ayoade: Mm hmm. So the approach that’s laid down in guidance is I, you know, I, I mentioned top front. We have an individualized approach. Our guidance talks about, we have a nice guidance that supports menopause, talks about lifestyle change, [00:16:00] and then talks about medication, which mainly is HRT, and but there are some other prescribed meds that are and then another thing that could be helpful is, is something called cognitive behavior therapy it’s a kind of talking therapy that helps you, bring in through a system some form of reframing, but my focus, as I said to you up front is I have a lifestyle medicine approach to menopause care.

[00:16:29] So I’ll probably default to speak around lifestyle. And so let’s cover maybe two or three of the top pillars. 

[00:16:37] If we talk about the first one, food. So I’ll start there. Food. And I say this, I say this all the time. Food is medicine. Our food is, our food is medicine. And if I could give our listeners one tip, top tip around food. I’d say eat more plants, yeah, and [00:17:00] why food is important, it’s important for our gut health.

[00:17:03] It’s important for our immunity. It’s important for our weight management. And the foods we eat, if we eat the foods that help us balance blood sugars, for example, it helps us manage our symptoms. There are some foods, for example, that exacerbate symptoms. So you would hear people say that spicy foods exacerbate flushes, for example, and being aware of all of these various things helps you know what to choose. We talked about heart health, we talked about metabolic health. You know, we’re taking, taking away sugars to, to help with that. Eating more plants, things that are good, that are nourishing. We eat foods that help us feel fuller for longer. Adding more proteins because we’re losing muscle mass. You know, there’s a whole lot. 

[00:17:55] Desiree Stanley: That’s right. That’s absolutely right. And I love that you said, you know, [00:18:00] food is medicine and this is not a new concept. This goes back ages and ages ago really the, the types of foods that we eat, the Really have an impact in our overall health and well being for sure.

[00:18:16] I love that you shared all of that with us and how important that is, not just for, you know, gut health, but you know, just overall well being. So thank you for detailing all of that. That’s excellent. And I think that it’s important to remember that this is kind of a whole picture scenario, right? We’ve got to look at like you mentioned the cognitive therapies, talk therapies, working with someone for your mind, that aspect of it, as well as the physical in terms of working out and, you know, just eating right. So I think that it’s important to remember it is the whole picture. You can’t just change one thing and expect it all to be better.

[00:18:57] Bukky Ayoade: And also just to say as well, [00:19:00] when you talked about working out. A lot of the time we feel that we need to do anything aggressive. I always say to women, I say, what we need is moderate and consistent in terms of physical activity, do what you enjoy, because that way you’re able to sustain it and be consistent with it.

[00:19:22] To your point, it is a whole picture. So you can’t say, oh, I’ve done food and I won’t do exercise, or I’ve done exercise or I won’t do food, or I’ve done food and I won’t manage stress, it’s the whole, they’re all the different spokes, I call them, of menopause care. And that whole… Bringing things through together as well as your mindset, you know, what are you doing to nourish your soul, your spirit, all of those things, you know, and that’s why I talk about having a holistic approach to menopause care is so key. 

[00:19:56] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love that. Thank you for rearing that [00:20:00] that’s absolutely valid.

[00:20:02] Let’s talk now a little bit about how we can initiate some of these conversations, because as you mentioned, we need to be talking with, our significant others, you know, people in our lives. And how do we begin those conversations? 

[00:20:19] Bukky Ayoade: You know, I’m hoping that you’re with a significant other, that you have good channels of communication anyway, and just be open and honest, maybe find them some material that they can read their selves, so that could be helpful.

[00:20:35] They’ve had a read, then you can have a conversation. But really, really, it’s just to make them aware of the fact that at this phase of life, these are the various things that happen, that impact, that can impact a woman’s life. Be vulnerable, ask for support in that way. That’s with a significant other.

[00:20:57] If we’re looking at the healthcare [00:21:00] professional, I spoke about menopause being diagnosed by symptoms, use a symptom tracker. Use the QR code on here. And say we have a free symptom tracker or just find a menopause symptom tracker so that you begin to document what’s going on in your body.

[00:21:17] I spoke about women understanding the symptoms of menopause so that when they start to appear, they are aware what might be going on because What I hear a lot from women is that I didn’t even know what was, what hit me, you know, and so that’s why I say awareness is key. So yeah, having those conversations and when reading up yourself, reading up yourself from reliable sources, because there’s, I mean, we, in menopause space, we call it the menopause wild west.

[00:21:46] There’s all sorts out there on the internet. All sorts of information out there, but there are reputable, reliable sources of information that give you an evidence based approach. You know, and so it’s reading up [00:22:00] yourself, arm yourself with that information so that when you go for your clinician’s appointment.

[00:22:06] When you’re having that conversation about, okay, how you’re going to manage this if say, for example, you’re needing to go down the medical route, it’s that you, you’re making an informed choice about your care. 

[00:22:19] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, great point. I love that you brought up about maybe getting. Reliable information that you can share with those who are closest to you that that can be used to help initiate a conversation because when they understand a little bit more about what you’re going through, I think then there’s some more compassion, right?

[00:22:40] A little bit more empathy or sympathy or, you know, they can kind of see like, oh, they’ve not just gone off the deep end. And, you know, there’s a reason why all of this is happening. 

[00:22:50] Bukky Ayoade: Yes. Suddenly changed into the wicked witch of. 

[00:22:56] Desiree Stanley: Right. Exactly. We touched a little bit [00:23:00] on HRT and, and that’s hormone replacement therapy.

[00:23:05] If you don’t mind dig into that a little bit. And I know that you’re not necessarily, you know, a doctor you know, clinician in that way. But do you want to share anything about that in terms of what women can expect when they start to look at things like that? 

[00:23:23] Bukky Ayoade: So I will touch on it briefly.

[00:23:24] I tend not to talk on these type of fora in depth around HRT, because it does require a specialized approach. But what I do say is it, HRT is licensed for management of menopause symptoms. But again, it comes hand in hand with other things. The thing to be aware of is when you’re considering HRT, read up yourself about the benefits and the risks. Your clinician will have that conversation with you about the benefits and the risks, depending on your [00:24:00] medical history. Your medical history, your present lifestyle. There are various considerations that a clinician would take into account to determine what sort of HRT they recommend for you.

[00:24:13] Again there are different forms of preparations. Depending on your lifestyle, it could be the patches, it could be the gel, there are, you know, the main hormones that are being replaced that women take in HRT are oestrogen and progesterone depending on the woman’s status, if she’s got a womb, she will need an oestrogen and progesterone, if she doesn’t have a womb, she will need, possibly be on oestrogen only, there are ways, different formulations and different hormones.

[00:24:43] different regimes, you know, some are sequential. So there’s a whole, it’s important to read up yourself and then have that conversation you know, what’s the best regime for, for yourself. Some people these days, mostly [00:25:00] UK, a lot of what is prescribed are transdermal, so patches, gels.

[00:25:05] But yeah, HRT is a big, big topic. It’s requires a specialized conversation and yeah, tailored to that woman. What I would say though is that HRT and of itself is not the be all and end all. It requires that combination approach, you know, thinking, still thinking lifestyle, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:25:30] And also requires some tinkering. So women will go on HRT and still feel they need to tinker a little bit till they get something that’s stable for them. 

[00:25:40] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So thank you for sharing that information. And again, I think you pointed out a number of times that it’s imperative that you’re speaking with your doctor so that you can design a plan that makes sense for you, as you said, your lifestyle, your general health and all of that.

[00:25:58] So [00:26:00] absolutely, you know, paramount that you’re discussing this with your doctor before making any decisions. 

[00:26:06] Bukky Ayoade: I would also say, for women that have, you know, if you’ve got a family history of cancer or, women that have a cancer diagnosis, you know, it’s just being aware of your medical history, reading up from reliable sources and then having the conversation with the clinician mean, because it can be a tricky area and it’s important that women they, they’ve taken that information on board themselves before they go through to the clinician.

[00:26:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. Well, so then let’s talk a little bit more on the lifestyle aspect and you know, is there something that you really think that first and foremost, that the listeners should know? Absolutely. Wonderful. In terms of, you know, lifestyle management, what would you share if somebody is coming into this period of their life that you feel like it’s absolutely vital that they know?

[00:26:59] Bukky Ayoade: I [00:27:00] would say I mentioned the lifestyle pillars. So the food, your physical activity, managing stress, sleep substance use this, this period of time offers us an opportunity. To rethink and do things differently, it offers an opportunity to make those tweaks, but lifestyle change can be hard. So what you want to do is go easy on yourself, tackle one thing.

[00:27:29] Pick up one thing, get that, you know, tick that off and then think about the next so that, you know, a woman doesn’t get herself into overwhelm. The other thing I would say is. Choose things that you that you like so people will talk about oh this diet this is good for menopause, you know this you can have this you can have that you can But if they’re not suited to your palate, for example, you’re not going to sustain it So you’d have to choose food groups.

[00:27:59] For [00:28:00] example that you like same as exercise Choose things that you like. I mean, people say, Oh, I go running. I cannot, I hate running. I don’t even like the sensation of running. So you would never catch me run, but I love to walk, you know, and that’s what I do. And so I’m able to sustain that aspect of physical activity.

[00:28:24] You know, we talk about you needing to do stretching exercises and using things like resistance bands, et cetera, to build up your muscles. Cause we lose muscle mass. I can do them, but things like squats and things that I, that I have to lie down, I just do not like. So, you know, it’s just finding things that work for you and just doing those things.

[00:28:46] Small, consistent, so that we sustain and help us maintain a healthy aging. 

[00:28:54] Desiree Stanley: I love it. I, and you made such great points there. The fact that [00:29:00] you’ve got to kind of get a handle on one aspect before trying to tackle all of it, because it is so easy for us to. You want to change everything about everything, and then we just can’t continue because it’s too much change at once.

[00:29:16] Right? And so choosing to make small changes in 1 area, and so you’ve kind of got a handle on it and then add in those other changes. Excellent point. And then again, about sharing, you’ve got to find the types of things that you enjoy doing hiking. If it’s not running for you, it’s walking or it’s bicycling or it’s whatever brings you joy that you can carry on throughout your life is really what’s important.

[00:29:50] Bukky Ayoade: I would also say a couple of other things just relating to lifestyle. This modern day that we live in is busy. We take on [00:30:00] everything we need to practice self care. We need to manage stress. We need to use boundaries to not overload ourselves. And then one of the other things that really, really helps lifestyle change stick.

[00:30:21] Is a accountability and support though. I always say that that that’s the actual glue that makes things stick because left to our own devices. We can be not moving, you know, to your point get into a groove with the husband, for example, go walking together, you know, set up a time to do that.

[00:30:44] Or, you know, and look at the meal plan together, you know, it’s just doing things together is helpful as well. Yes. Absolutely. The single people on the call, because I’m one of those, find a buddy. 

[00:30:59] Desiree Stanley: [00:31:00] Yes. And that’s what I was just going to say. I love that you shared about someone that can help hold you accountable.

[00:31:07] And so it’s finding. A friend or, you know, whoever that wants to go walking with you, that the two of you can organize times consistently that you can do that. And I’m fortunate enough to be involved in a national running group, but often we’re hiking or walking or paddle boarding or doing some other type of activity as a group.

[00:31:31] But because of that, you’ve got somebody that you plan to meet regularly. And so they hold you accountable. And so that’s fantastic. So research in your area, if there’s a group like that, or start a group of your own, that you can work together and hold each other accountable for these lifestyle changes.

[00:31:51] Yeah. Awesome. Well, can we talk a little bit about some myths and [00:32:00] misconceptions that are around perimenopause and menopause. 

[00:32:06] Bukky Ayoade: So I think I may have alluded to one already the main one for me, HRT is a panacea. No. It’s not the be all and end all of menopause care or menopause or managing symptoms.

[00:32:21] It is one aspect of symptoms and some people choose not to use HRT. They can still with, a lot of the approaches that we’ve spoken about, they can still learn to manage and cope with their symptoms and actually resolve symptoms. So that’s one. The other one that I would say that is like a woman in midlife, you know, ’cause midlife typically is described as over 40.

[00:32:52] is past it. I’m like, no, a woman in midlife. I mean, honestly, I can say that [00:33:00] right now I am living my best life. I always say, I am 10 years fitter. I am healthier, fitter now than I was 10 years ago. Definitely, because, and I guess possibly because of my approach, but I’ve just learned various things and tactics to help me and I engage in activity that helps me live healthier helps me live fitter at this phase of life. I mean, I told you about how I started this and, you know, at what over 50 and I found my groove, so I say midlife is amazing. You spoke about kids gone to college is when you start to make all those different changes and you’ve got time.

[00:33:47] You know, if you’ve had a long career, you can pivot, there’s so much you can do. So yeah, I, I honestly believe that it’s an amazing phase of life. 

[00:33:56] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s such a great point. I think that in the [00:34:00] past, you know, perhaps it was a much harder For for many women. It was much harder in the past.

[00:34:06] We physically the demands were a lot harder. That’s not to say that there isn’t the case still in some areas today, but I think that for the most part in Western culture, things have gotten a lot easier. So 50 is not the same now as it was 2 and 3 decades ago. Yeah, so I think that that myth of your life is over when you hit 50 is totally debunked at this point, right?

[00:34:35] Bukky Ayoade: Yeah, we’ve lost that one. Yeah, 

[00:34:39] Desiree Stanley: it really has become, you know, the fresh start for a lot of people. And like you said, you often have the opportunity to pivot and try something completely different at this point in your life. And so I think that it’s wonderful to remember that. It is the start of a new phase and, and this transition, the perimenopause menopause, [00:35:00] this is that transition period.

[00:35:02] That is a start of a new phase of your life and remembering it from that, kind of positive aspect I think is important too.

[00:35:09] Bukky Ayoade: Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. 

[00:35:14] Desiree Stanley: Well, I have so enjoyed our conversation . Thank you so much. I think that this information is so important for women to internalize, right?

[00:35:27] And remember that these changes are normal and natural but keep in mind that there’s ways that we can you know, change things that make it easier as we go through this transition, incorporating the things that you’ve suggested with eating the lifestyle changes for, exercising all of that, I think is fantastic that we really need to remember.

[00:35:55] That we have a hand in making this a smoother, [00:36:00] easier transition. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, before we close out our conversation, I always like to ask my guests if there’s any books that they have found beneficial or influential that they’d like to share with the listeners. And so do you have any you’d like to share with us now?

[00:36:17] Bukky Ayoade: Yes, I have a couple. So I got the first one is called The Daniel Plan. And it talks about 40 days to a healthier life. So all of these lifestyle changes that we talked about, it’s a really comprehensive book. It’s by American authors as well. So I’m sure your audience would love that.

[00:36:36] So it’s The Daniel Plan: 40 Days to a Healthier Life. Then we have this other one I spoke about having, I love to walk and this is called 52 Ways to Walk it’s by Annabelle Streets. The surprising science of walking for wellness and joy one week at a time. 

[00:36:56] Desiree Stanley: I love it. Thank you for sharing those and I’ll include those in the show [00:37:00] notes and then the listeners can check those out.

[00:37:02] Is there any podcasts that you enjoy listening to that you’d like to share? 

[00:37:06] Bukky Ayoade: I’m not so much. So a podcast person, I’m afraid if that’s okay. 

[00:37:12] Desiree Stanley: Certainly that is totally fine. And I can appreciate that as well. Sometimes it is nice just to have some music playing not having to be thinking as you’re walking. 

[00:37:21] Bukky Ayoade: Honestly, that’s the thing. So when I’m out walking most of the time, even the music, it’s my switch off time.

[00:37:27] So I just think, you know what I just need quiet and walk and sometimes I’m meditating or I’m praying or etc. So yeah. 

[00:37:36] Desiree Stanley: Oh, for sure. I love that. Okay. So one last thing is I would love for you to share where the listeners can follow along on everything that you’re doing it. I know you have a Facebook group.

[00:37:48] So if you’d like to share that and, oh, lastly. We didn’t even get a chance to talk about the book that you’ve written. And so before we close out, let’s have you talk about that and share with the [00:38:00] listeners what that’s about. 

[00:38:02] Bukky Ayoade: Okay. Oh, thank you. So I it’s called The Vibrant Midlife Wellness and Affirmation Journal. I like writing. I like journaling. Journaling is a, is a form of self care. And what it does is it’s an accountability tool as well. So I’ve created this journal where we cover the lifestyle pillars that we’ve talked about. It’s got a wellness action.

[00:38:23] It’s got affirmations in there because we know we have to you speak life into us it’s got a meditation verse. It’s got quotations and you can capture gratitudes as well this journal just Helps you focus on all of the wellness pillars that I spoke about and gives you an opportunity to just take time out for yourself on a daily basis to write things.

[00:38:48] It’s undated as well, so you can pick up anywhere you like, and it covers various topics, stress, sleep, love, money, I just thought, just a simple [00:39:00] tool for women to use. Practice self care daily. 

[00:39:04] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. Yeah. Well, for sure. We’ll include that in the notes as well, but go ahead and share with us where people can follow along on your journey and what you’re doing.

[00:39:15] Bukky Ayoade: So our website is Vibrantmidlife.Com. Our Facebook group, which is a safe space that we’ve created for women. So, you know, women can come in and have confidence that they can share what they’re sharing without any reprisals is Vibrant Midlife with Bukky on Facebook. And then Instagram, at Vibrant Midlife.

[00:39:38] And LinkedIn, I’m Bukky Ayoade. That’s where it operates. All of those places. 

[00:39:43] Desiree Stanley: Perfect. I’ll include all of that again in the show notes so that the listeners can easily find that and find you and the Facebook group sounds amazing. I love that it’s a safe place that you can talk about what’s happening and not have any judgment [00:40:00] and you know, so that’s excellent.

[00:40:02] I think that we all need that. Thank you for sharing that again. I have so appreciated your time and your knowledge. Thank you for coming on the show and sharing that with us.

[00:40:14] Bukky Ayoade: Thank you for having me. It’s been a pleasure to be here. 

[00:40:18] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. Well, we’ll talk more soon.

[00:40:21] Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and empower you to achieve your goals. And thanks again for listening.

———————————————–

POK_Anne Dalfiume Podcast_11_29_2023
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest Anne Dalfiume. How are you today? And it’s wonderful to have you on. 

[00:00:34] Anne Dalfiume: Thank you so much for having me. I’m great. Thank you. How are you?

[00:00:38] Desiree Stanley: I’m doing very well. Thank you. 

[00:00:41] I am so thrilled to have Anne on the show today.

[00:00:45] We’re gonna be talking about financing and navigating that whole process as a startup business to help grow your business. And Anne is the founder and owner of Best Bank Option, and so we’re gonna [00:01:00] be diving into those topics and really help the listeners who are ready to start a business or grow their business, understand that financing process.

[00:01:13] And so I’m so looking forward to this conversation. Are you 

[00:01:15] ready? I am. I’m so ready. I’m excited. Excellent. 

[00:01:20] Okay. So I want to ask you, first of all, what was it that inspired you to start Best Bank Option? And tell us a little bit about your history in the banking industry. 

[00:01:32] Anne Dalfiume: So you know, funny, I, was thinking about some of the questions that we’re gonna go over.

[00:01:37] One of those was a situation where I was working at a bank and we would have a morning meeting huddles, right? And everyone would get together with the branch manager, and I was working with the branch manager and with the bankers in this branch. But not necessarily he was not [00:02:00] my direct manager.

[00:02:01] So we would have these morning meetings and he would start to talk about how to basically work the system. And I said, I remember sitting there and looking left, looking right and thinking, is anybody bothered by what he’s saying right now? I couldn’t believe it. I. You know, obviously with a lot of the things going on in the banking system there was a lot of gaming going on and inappropriate behavior, unethical behavior. And. When that happened and he just kept doing things and kept saying things and I thought, okay, I can’t work with this person because every client that I brought into that office, I introduced them to the branch manager and. I couldn’t do that in good conscience. What I realized is [00:03:00] especially being in business for yourself and just being in business in general, 

[00:03:04] it’s really about my my ethical behavior, right? And it’s about my reputation and it’s about how I conduct myself and being aligned with somebody who was doing unethical behavior. I couldn’t do it. So I made a complaint to my manager. I made a complaint to his manager. I asked to be transferred out of the branch and I was denied.

[00:03:31] They said, no, you’ll have to work in this branch for a year, which is typically how it works. And so I said, okay I’m going to have to leave then, and because that happened, that’s what I guess spurred me into becoming a commercial loan broker or a business loan broker. And through that process, it really kind of catapulted me into a whole new world of financing that I didn’t know [00:04:00] existed.

[00:04:00] And up until then I’d worked for different banks. I’ve worked for small community banks, I’ve worked for large national banks, I’ve worked for international banks. So I have a pretty good repertoire of different lenders and how they function. And because of that, it gave me a really good broad based knowledge about finance in general, 

[00:04:25] and how to help small business owners. But what I really didn’t know was it’s like, what you don’t know is what you don’t know. So when I, when I went independent, it really opened up a whole new world. And and I felt like a newbie. I mean, I didn’t know the questions to ask sometimes I felt insecure, even though I’ve done it for a number of years.

[00:04:46] I don’t want to date myself, but I’ve been a baker for a long time. For a good portion of my life since I was a child, I was just amazed at the things that I learned. So other people will get the benefit of that and I’m excited to share [00:05:00] that with everyone. So that’s how I started.

[00:05:03] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for kind of filling in that detail for us on your history, and you’re 100 percent right. Your integrity, your reputation is, is paramount, and you just cannot align yourself or work with somebody who is doing things that just you know are not right. And so I think the listeners would totally agree that you, you know, kind of had to get out from under that.

[00:05:28] So thank you for sharing that story with us. And, and so let’s talk then about when you did become a broker, you learned so many new things that you didn’t know before. And so why don’t you share some of that with us now? Like, what were some of the things that you discovered when you began that new path?

[00:05:49] Anne Dalfiume: Okay, some of the things that I learned that I did not know before was that even if you have. Not the best of credit, right? Like, let’s say [00:06:00] something had happened. Or maybe your partner doesn’t have very good credit, and I’m talking below a 680 and even below, even in the 500s. I didn’t know companies could still get financing, even though they didn’t have a decent credit.

[00:06:14] The better credit you have, the better options you’re going to have and the better terms you’re going to have. But in the big realm of things, if you’ve had a situation that came up in your past where maybe you got sick and you had to declare bankruptcy because you had a bunch of medical debt.

[00:06:33] That’s explainable, right? So I want people to know that just because maybe you don’t have the best of credit history, that you can still apply for credit and still get approved and work your way into getting a better credit rating over time. So that was the one thing that I learned. I also learned that people have options.

[00:06:56] There’s different types of lenders. So, I have a [00:07:00] large banking background, but in the grand scheme, you can go online and there’s a bunch of online lenders now, right? You’re able to find financing a bunch of different ways. There’s grants, there’s loans, there’s money through the SBA.

[00:07:16] There’s a plethora of different ways to obtain financing. You just have to keep looking for it. So, you know, there are options to be had and to be available. 

[00:07:27] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s a great point that you just brought up about so much online banking has opened up the availability of funding for people where just 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you know, maybe longer.

[00:07:44] It really was just the bank that was in your town. You know, that’s where you went to get any kind of funding. And now we have so many more options, and I love that you shared about SBA, because that’s a great resource [00:08:00] and the grants as well. You know, your local town might have grant options and and really doing a little bit of research there gives you those those options.

[00:08:11] And so thank you for sharing that 

[00:08:14] Anne Dalfiume: I’d actually recently obtained financing for a client of mine, and she was relatively new. She’s been in business for a little bit over a year. She had one year’s tax returns and we were able to get financing through SBA. It’s not necessarily through a bank, but it’s through a community development center.

[00:08:36] And because of that, she was able to grow her business. relocate expand, hire new employees. So it is a beautiful way in order to, especially for clients who are Newer in the industry, newer in their business, they haven’t been in business that long. I’m talking less than two years.

[00:08:56] That’s a great way to go. 

[00:08:59] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Thanks for [00:09:00] bringing that up. Because I think that people often assume you have to be like this really well established business. And that’s not the case. As you just shared, it could be somebody who is , a newer startup business that can obtain this type of financing.

[00:09:16] So great point. Thanks again for sharing that. And then I want to talk a little bit about What you shared earlier, and that’s the credit score, because I think that that’s something else that people just automatically assume if I’ve got terrible credit score or lower credit score, like quote unquote lower score, I’m not going to get any financing.

[00:09:37] But the point that you brought up is that it may not be. The best terms or the best rate. It’s still an option, right? 

[00:09:48] Anne Dalfiume: Correct. Right. So what I’ve learned going through this process and working with different types of clients who have credit scores I’d probably say the high five hundreds all the way up.

[00:09:59] [00:10:00] What you can do is you can talk to different lenders and find out who offers credit for those who don’t have the best credit score. Right. And like I said, you work on getting your credit score better over time. Life happens to people. Sometimes you don’t expect it. And there are things that come your way, whether it’s divorce.

[00:10:20] Whether it’s a tragedy, whether it’s a natural disaster, something that you’re not expecting, things happen all the time, right? And it’s nothing to be ashamed about the thing that I would say, and when I talk about people who don’t have the best of credit, sometimes people have applied and maybe have gotten a just went into bankruptcy, 

[00:10:43] and they applied for bankruptcy X amount of years ago. You have to be very careful when you fill out the applications on different loans packages, because sometimes the wording can be very specific. So it’ll say, have you ever [00:11:00] filed for bankruptcy? Then the answer would be yes. Sometimes it’ll say, have you ever filed for bankruptcy in the last seven years?

[00:11:09] Or it’ll say have you filed for bankruptcy in the last couple of years? So you want to really read that question because if you answer no, and you think it’s fallen off your credit report. It’s gonna be an automatic decline. You know, banks are amazing at finding out information, especially like that.

[00:11:30] So you don’t want to mess with the big brother. You want to, you want to keep it all above board. You want to make sure that you’re disclosing everything. And it doesn’t mean you will automatically get declined. That’s the other thing that you could talk to a banker about. Be honest, because it’s, If you’re not, it’s going to come out anyway.

[00:11:49] And then you could have wasted your time by going into something that might not have been the right fit for you as far as the lender. So, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:11:59] Desiree Stanley: Thanks for going into a [00:12:00] little bit more detail on that. And so then that kind of leads me to the question first of all where would I even find the right lender?

[00:12:11] Okay. And I know you mentioned, you know, some online SBA, some local, community things, but so where. I’m sure the scenarios are going to be different in like where I would look for the type of lender that I need for the type of money that I need. 

[00:12:25] Anne Dalfiume: Right. So this is what I do when I have to find a particular lender.

[00:12:31] I will Google let’s just say I was working and purchasing a farm for a client. So I looked up farm lending in Colorado. And then that helped me narrow down and then I would click on those bank links. And then it would say, if you’re inquiring, you know, please fill out this little form.

[00:12:50] So then you fill out the information and then they go ahead and reach out to you. That’s one way that I would find lenders. The other way is I utilize LinkedIn.[00:13:00] So I will sit there and I will look for local lenders, and I will connect with them. And then when they accept my invitation, then I’ll send them a message and say, Hey, this is what I’m looking for.

[00:13:14] Is this something that falls into your criteria? And then if they say, Yeah, let’s talk further, then I give them my number. And then we go ahead and discuss what I’m looking for, and things like that. The one thing that I want to make sure that people know it’s if you do live in a small town, you should go with a local lender.

[00:13:35] Larger lenders don’t like going into smaller towns, that’s just not their area of expertise. And there’s some banks that don’t offer business finance at all. So credit unions, things like that they don’t necessarily always offer business finance. So that’s why I try to Google it, you know, business finance and then allow them to [00:14:00] connect where I’m locally looking for.

[00:14:03] Things like that. So there’s all different types of lenders, and I would suggest people look at different types, whether it’s a regional bank, whether it’s a national bank but you don’t want to go to two lenders of the same type. And when I say that, I mean, you don’t want to go to Wells Fargo and Bank of America.

[00:14:21] Those are both national lenders, right? And they both pretty much have the same underwriting criteria. So you want to maybe pick one of those and then you might want to go to a local bank, right? Whether it’s like East West Bank, something like that. Just so you have a variety and you get an idea of what different lenders are offering for the things that you need.

[00:14:44] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s great information, I think. And Really clarifying how important it is for, finding the type of lender for the type of funding that you need. And again, that point that you made about national lenders, [00:15:00] maybe there are larger lenders not wanting to go into those smaller markets. You know, that’s something I would have had no idea.

[00:15:07] So thanks for sharing that detail. And I think also that when you’ve got a local lender, especially if you’re in like more of a rural area or a smaller town, you know, you’re obviously going to have a little bit more of a connection with those people because, you’re in the same area. Right.

[00:15:25] And so you could probably get a little bit further faster with someone like that then. A national like nationwide chain bank 

[00:15:33] Anne Dalfiume: or whatever, right. I always suggest to people when they’re starting to look for financing that they talk to a couple of different lenders. And there’s some different reasons for that.

[00:15:47] One of the reasons is that when you get together your loan package, Typically, what I do for my clients is that I will have a couple of different lenders look at the loan package. You don’t [00:16:00] necessarily know how they do their underwriting or how they look at a loan, right? Or your industry per se. So if they look at it and one says no, then you can automatically start working with the other one if that’s something that they look for.

[00:16:14] So you kind of almost have a fallback, right? I typically want to make sure that if I’m going through the loan process, that I kind of have a backup lender that I’ve already started the process with. So if anything happens during the process, then I have someone else that I can go to and say, Hey, it didn’t work out.

[00:16:32] Here’s the reason why, right? Like I said, it’s full disclosure because they’re going to find out anyway. And so you’d rather just save your time and just say, Hey, look, this is what they said. Is that going to be a problem for you too? Is that an issue? And if they say no, then you might as well just keep moving forward, but it invariably saves

[00:16:52] people an immense amount of time when they work with two lenders at the same time Then there comes a point where you [00:17:00] have to make a decision, right? Do I want to go with this lender or that one? You know some people it’s how quickly they can process a loan for other people They are very rate sensitive.

[00:17:11] So they want to know if they can get the best rate, so there’s a multiple. I guess criteria of what somebody would consider before they move forward with a particular lender. Yeah, great 

[00:17:24] Desiree Stanley: point there for sure. The speed of lending could be more important to somebody than the terms per se. And yeah, that could make a difference in the decision on who they go with 100%.

[00:17:37] And I want to talk a little bit more about what you said. And that’s the loan package. So let’s let’s dive into that a little bit. And Understand kind of what would be in that loan package. Like what is a lender going to ask me for when I go into apply for a loan? 

[00:17:55] Anne Dalfiume: So typically, if you’ve been in business a couple of [00:18:00] years, they’re going to want to see at least a couple of years tax returns.

[00:18:04] They want to see year to date financials, meaning your profit and loss. And your balance sheet. If you have one they’re going to want to see maybe your end financials. so They’ll want to see the year end balance sheet and profit and loss. They’re going to want to see a personal financial statement.

[00:18:25] They’ll wanna see business debt schedule, if there is any. And then they’re going to want to see also depending on what your purchase is, they might want to see bank statements. Okay. Things like that. If you filed an extension, they’re going to want to see the extension and there’s nothing wrong with filing extensions.

[00:18:44] You just got to be able to show the information for them. But that, that’s typically what they’re going to ask for somebody who’s newer in business, right? They may only ask for one year of tax returns. So it just depends on how much you’re needing, [00:19:00] how much you’re asking for and what type of financing you’ll need. 

[00:19:04] Desiree Stanley: Thanks for, for sharing those details on what you might generally be asked for. And let’s talk a little bit about the personal financial statement and what does that mean? And usually what are you having to share on something like that? 

[00:19:20] Anne Dalfiume: Right. So a personal financial statement, let’s say if you have a partner in business, it would have to be completed for each owner who owns 20 percent or more of the company.

[00:19:32] If your partner owns 5%, they typically will not ask for their personal financial statement. Okay. So once you look at that they’ll gather information. All about you and all about your finances. They’ll want to see like where you live. Do you rent? Do you own? How much money do you pay monthly for your mortgage?

[00:19:53] Or how much do you pay for your rent? How long have you been there? Then they want to see your assets. What kind [00:20:00] of cash you have, what kind of stocks, bonds what kind of cars you have any other assets that you might have. Then they’re also going to ask about your liabilities on any of those assets, right?

[00:20:12] That’s why they want to know about your home mortgage. They want to know about any credit card debt you might have. if You’ve co signed for any debt they’ll want to know that. And then they also will ask you some questions really to find out about your history when it comes to, well, one of the questions they’ll ask, have you ever filed for bankruptcy?

[00:20:34] That’s one of them. Then they’ll ask if you have your assets in a trust. They’re going to want a copy of your trust document. So you want to make sure that all of these documents that you are putting together are accurate and up to date. Like sometimes I’ve gotten trust documents from a client and they’re not signed and they’re not dated.

[00:20:54] So you got to make sure those are done or even corporate documents, right? They may have their corporation, but they [00:21:00] haven’t signed. Like whatever their meeting minutes or something like that. There’s different things that you just want to make sure that everything is you know, the T’s crossed and the I’s dotted, so to speak.

[00:21:12] Yeah. 

[00:21:13] Desiree Stanley: Well, thank you for sharing that. And it sounds like it’s a lot of documents. Yes, typically, there’s a lot of things that you’re going to need to be getting together to provide so that they have a full picture of your financial situation. 

[00:21:30] Anne Dalfiume: Correct. Right. You know, the best thing to do is. Kind of get organized if you’re not an organized person, just putting a folder together, right?

[00:21:40] Wherever it may be in Dropbox, it doesn’t matter, but if you put all the documents that they’re requesting and you keep it in that file folder, it will save you so much time and energy because they’re going to need that info. And for some reason, if you need additional funding, right?

[00:21:59] [00:22:00] Then you could just go back to this file and then you’re like, Oh, look, I’ve already got it all together. Look at me. I’m a superstar. So you just want to reference back, but it makes life so much easier. And that’s what I do for my clients. I’ve had some repeat clients where we’ve gotten financing a few years ago, and then they’ll need something today, let’s say.

[00:22:21] And so I just get updated financials. I get the newest tax returns. Things of that nature. So yeah, it makes it a little bit easier. 

[00:22:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and you’re right. The time saving and doing something like that, where it’s all compiled in one place is huge because I think we spend so much time searching for the things that we need because they’re not all in one place.

[00:22:45] And so I think that’s a great tip. Just keep all of those things. Like you said, a Dropbox or Google drive or a file folder on your computer, whatever you feel comfortable with putting it all in that one place makes so much sense. So thank you for sharing that [00:23:00] tip. 

[00:23:00] Anne Dalfiume: Yes, definitely. 

[00:23:02] Desiree Stanley: Let’s talk then about how do you know how the process is going like once you’ve provided all of that, and they start working on it on their side.

[00:23:13] How do you have any idea? If it’s going well, or it’s not going well, 

[00:23:18] Anne Dalfiume: I think one of the things to really talk with a lender before you even begin the process is Asking those questions, right? What is the process? You know when I apply with this bank What’s the process like and then they should tell you how many days it’ll be in underwriting.

[00:23:36] and then they’ll tell you exactly what happens after that and what to expect so, I would say a lot of lenders, they might take five to 10 business days to underwrite something and you should get questions back from the underwriter. It’s rare that I’ve never gotten a question back when they look at a financial package.

[00:23:57] So when you’re bankers communicating with [00:24:00] you and talking with you. You have a pretty good idea. Okay. Things are moving along. When you reach out to your banker and if they are ghosting you and they don’t get back to you, they’re not responding to your emails, right? Then that’s something to probably start being concerned about.

[00:24:18] The other thing I ask your bankers, if they plan on going on vacation anytime soon, because I can’t tell you how many bankers have left town and then I’m trying to reach them. They’re like, Oh, Hey, I’m, you know, in Mexico. And I’m like, well, that would have been good to know. Right. So. You know, maybe ask, do you have any trips planned, you know, in the next month or two months and see what they say.

[00:24:40] Then that way you’ll know what to expect from them. But the thing that gauge that makes me gauge how we’re doing and how it’s going is if someone stops communicating with me and I’m reaching out to them, then I know there’s a problem and I need to start looking at an alternative lender potentially.[00:25:00] 

[00:25:00] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love it. Great points there. That initial question of what is your process, you know, as the lender, what is your process and what can I expect in hearing a response back? I think that’s just even a great place to start, but that’s hilarious. If they’re ghosting you, you had, there’s probably something that’s not right there.

[00:25:21] And yeah. And, and going back to your point about working with two banks at the same time, you know, initially, because you can save time if you’ve got one is just giving you, you know, problem after problem, you’re not getting anywhere. You can easily just switch over to the other and keep going without losing too much time.

[00:25:43] And I think that that’s a great point, because you don’t want to have to start from square one again, and, you know, potentially be months and months. Behind, so good point 

[00:25:55] Anne Dalfiume: or, or lose your opportunity, right? I mean,[00:26:00] the thing about business finance is that it’s very time sensitive and it’s very stressful, right?

[00:26:06] These are people’s livelihoods that we’re talking about, they’re able to take advantage of different opportunities that are coming towards them. And in order to do that, they need their financing. And if there starts to become hiccups and they’re pushed up against the deadline. That’s a problem.

[00:26:25] So I think a lot of bankers, we do a lot of theoretical work, you know, when you’re at a bank, rarely has a banker actually ran a business. Like started one from scratch and ran it, right? So in their mind, they think everything should be smooth sailing, cash flow’s great, there’s no ups and downs, right? Everything’s kumbaya and we’re at one with the world. And that is not the way the world works when you run a company. It just doesn’t [00:27:00] work that way. So sometimes they’re going to want to know, Hey, what do you do in this situation? How do you overcome that? I know one of the biggest questions post COVID was when COVID hit, what did you do?

[00:27:14] How did you navigate that? Right. And so these are things that you want to be able to think about and be able to answer. So when they do come up, you know, you’re prepared, you’re ready, and you sound really like you know exactly, hey, this is my company, and they know exactly what’s going on, and they know how to answer your questions.

[00:27:34] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, great point. For sure. Having just your own, Knowledge of the total ins and outs of every part of your business is a must and being able to answer those questions quickly and easily is absolutely necessary. And yeah, great point about post covid, because I think that, you know, those couple of years were really.[00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Really stressful for a lot of businesses, and a lot of businesses did not make it. And you know, so I think that going forward, 

[00:28:10] it’s probably going to be different, right? I think there’s, there’s probably been changes that have occurred because of COVID in, in terms of what happened in the banking business or, or, or not.

[00:28:20] What would you say? 

[00:28:22] Anne Dalfiume: Well, Right after COVID, yes, a lot of things changed. I mean, banks weren’t lending to non clients. I mean, it became very tough. It all became about EIDL and PPP loans, that’s really what they were processing for a long time. And other than that, they weren’t doing anything else.

[00:28:44] I mean, I had a client who was basically processing COVID tests, like manufacturing them. And I could not get them financing for the life of me because banks were just like, Oh no, sorry[00:29:00] we’re not doing that right now. And I’m thinking, but this is something to help us where we’re at. It was just amazing to me.

[00:29:07] So yeah, there’s just a lot of intricacies. I think right now with the way the economy is, inflation’s going up. People are worried about that. The dollar does not stretch as much as it used to. Things have gotten more expensive, right? So thinking about that and costs, if you’re in manufacturing, 

[00:29:26] you want to think, okay, how can I cut costs in the purchasing of supplies? If you’re a wholesaler or a retailer, you want to think about, okay, well, what goods how much are the costs are, can I get a better terms on what I’m purchasing, you know, just different things like that.

[00:29:44] So those might be questions that lenders might ask right now and want to really have a decent answer for it. None of these things are set in stone, you know, I want people to know that you may not know something and it’s okay to [00:30:00] Write it down or have them email you with these list of questions And then you can talk to you know your tax planner whether it’s your CPA your controller your financial person and then that way, you can get the right information.

[00:30:16] Not everybody’s the financial person in their company, when you own it, they might be good at something else. I don’t want people to go, Oh my gosh, how am I supposed to know all that? You don’t have to, it’s a, it’s okay not to know the answers. So, but you got to get them. You may not know, but you got to get them.

[00:30:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, no, that’s a, that’s an excellent point that you just brought up because. In some cases you do wear all the hats, right? You are the one that has to handle all aspects of the business, but that’s not the case for every business. And so, yes, it’s, you’re allowed to have some time to get answers to questions that are thrown at you.

[00:30:54] That’s a great point and a reassurance. I think that, you know, it’s like, if you don’t have an [00:31:00] immediate answer for it, they’re just gonna be like, okay, no, forget it. We’re not financing you because you can’t answer this question right now. 

[00:31:06] Anne Dalfiume: Right. That’s not happening. No. Yeah, no, they want to lend money as much as you need the money.

[00:31:13] So it could be a win win. 

[00:31:15] Desiree Stanley: Right, right. That’s a good point. And although I think I feel like right now, the situation that we’re in, and I’m going to just say it’s, the 4th quarter of 2023. So, you know, this episode of somebody listens to it in the future could be entirely different scenario.

[00:31:33] But I feel like lending right now has become a little bit tighter. Like there’s not as much lending that’s happening because of, you know, inflation and interest rates and all of the stuff that’s kind of going on with our economy right now. And what are your thoughts on that? 

[00:31:52] Anne Dalfiume: Oh, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[00:31:55] Yeah. Everybody’s tightening it up a little bit because, you know, nobody wants to [00:32:00] get stuck with a bad debt. You know, and that’s the thing about lenders, right? They’re risk adverse. They not only look at the company today, but where it’s going to be over the term of the loan, so they don’t want to provide money to a company that they’re going to have to worry about going forward.

[00:32:20] So I completely agree with you. It is about, If you think we’re in a recession but it’s the bottom dollar is not buying as much as it used to, you know, banks do have a tendency to tighten up and to not give as much as they normally would. So it causes a cash crunch for a lot of different industries, a lot of different people.

[00:32:43] Right. So you just got to really be willing to batten it down a little bit and just really navigate this time going forward. 

[00:32:52] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Great point. Well, so then I want to ask you 

[00:32:56] what, when, you get to the point that [00:33:00] they’ve reviewed all of your information and they’re like, okay, great.

[00:33:05] We’re going to fund this loan that you’re requesting. What are some questions that you should be asking them at that point? 

[00:33:14] Anne Dalfiume: Well, once they’ve approved your loan, right, and they’re going to move forward and you’re past the part of supplying all your documentation, whether it’s corporate documents, meeting minutes.

[00:33:28] Trust documents your certificate of information, different things like that, whatever it may be that the bank needs, or maybe they need a copy of your insurance for some reason, once you’ve supplied all of that information, the things that I would ask your banker are one, would you be able to see your loan online?

[00:33:47] Because sometimes that’s not always the capability of doing that. Two, how do you make your loan payments, right? Sometimes they’re automatic withdrawals. So you wouldn’t have to worry about that, but you just want to confirm [00:34:00] so that you’re not late on the payment, and then you want to find out when your payments due.

[00:34:05] So that way you have enough money in the bank. You want to make sure that all those things are answered. So you go forward. You’re like, okay, I know exactly what’s happening. Cause I know. In hindsight, people have come back and said, I don’t know how to make my loan payment or I don’t know what my loans due.

[00:34:22] What am I supposed to do? So we have to go back to the lender and ask them afterwards. This will be just something that makes it more convenient for you. And you don’t have to come back to the table afterwards. 

[00:34:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And I think that that knowledge is important anyway, because then, you know exactly what’s due when it’s due and how to make those payments.

[00:34:40] And so it’s like one less thing to worry about because you’ve already got that information. And yeah, I mean, being able to make those payments online is, I think we kind of all expect that these days, right? Like having them not having to, you know, write a paper check, like who does that anymore to, to make a [00:35:00] payment.

[00:35:00] So those things it’s. Of course, super beneficial to know how it needs to be handled going forward. 

[00:35:08] Anne Dalfiume: Right. So you want to know too, if it takes a couple of days to get that payment process, because I like to pay things right when they’re due. But if it takes a couple of days in order for it to get processed, then you’re going to have to make your payment a couple of days ahead.

[00:35:23] And then you have to think, Oh, is it the weekend? That’s a couple of more days, right? No payments get processed on the weekends, no payments get processed on a holiday, so these are things that you want to think about, you know, just so you’re not late because you’re building your credit here and you’re building history with the potential lender in the future.

[00:35:44] Desiree Stanley: Great point. Absolutely. Love it. WellAnne, let’s talk now. If there’s anything that you think that the listeners should know that like in hindsight that you know [00:36:00] now that you could share with the listeners that would be beneficial to them. I’d love for you to share that now. 

[00:36:07] Anne Dalfiume: Okay. You know, I think something specifically that a lender is going to ask someone when they first meet with any potential business client, 

[00:36:17] is they’re going to want to ask a few different things of you. One, they’re going to want to ask, how much do you need? So how much money you need now? I wanna say the not right answer is, how much can I get , right? Like, that’s not, that’s not the right answer. And then the other not right answer is giving a very wide range.

[00:36:41] Like say I’m thinking maybe 50, 250,000, you know, somewhere there, you wanna have some idea of. The amount that you’re going to be asking for, right? So that gives you a little bit of homework to do before you actually speak with a lender, so [00:37:00] you want to know how much the other thing you’re going to want to know is.

[00:37:03] What you’re going to need it for, if you’re a new company, let’s say you need marketing and let’s say you need to hire staff, or let’s say you need to lease a space, right? So these are all information that you want to make note of. You put it in your Excel spreadsheet, you say, okay, this is how much the lease payment’s going to be. This is how much the approximate utilities are going to be, right? This is how much insurance is going to be. So you want to have all this information and it doesn’t have to be exact. But you at least want to get a pretty good decent idea of what that amount is going to be.

[00:37:42] And then the other thing you want to know is when you’re going to need the financing. I think a lot of people put themselves in a little bit of a corner because they don’t give themselves enough time to go forward into a business loan. Right. So the one [00:38:00] thing you don’t want to say is I need it today.

[00:38:03] Okay. That’s not going to happen. Wrong answer again. The other thing not to say is I need it as soon as possible. So you want to be as prepared going in to talk with a lender. As you can. So you want to have these ideas, how much you need, what you need it for, and when you’re going to need it.

[00:38:22] Right? So if you say, I’m going to need it in a few months, we’re planning on expanding. This is my ideas, it doesn’t have to be all completely tied together at that point. But at least it gives you a really good idea of a conversation you’re going to be able to have with them. So that’s the important thing, I think.

[00:38:41] That’s something I think people should know. 

[00:38:43] Desiree Stanley: Oh, excellent. I love it. For sure. The, the point that you made about not having too large of a range that you’re looking for, or even just saying like, well, whatever you want to give me, I mean, no, that’s not going to instill any kind of confidence in the lender.

[00:38:59] I think[00:39:00] but going in prepared, like you said, and having just a general idea of like, Okay. I’m looking for this funding for leasing a larger space or hiring staff or, you know, whatever like that. I think that instills more confidence in the lender that you’re prepared, you know what you’re going to be using the money and you’re using it responsibly.

[00:39:21] Right? Right. Yeah. 

[00:39:23] Anne Dalfiume: Yeah. Excellent. And definitely you can have some educated conversations at that point, right? When you’re just kind of shooting darts saying, well, I think it’s about this much and I’m not quite sure, those are harder conversations to button down and to give you quality feedback on as opposed to when you come in and you say, this is what I’m thinking, this is what I need and this is when I need it.

[00:39:46] And I really, I want to really try and emphasize to that preparation is your friend. So the more prepared you can be going into a financing opportunity, the better it’s [00:40:00] going to be for you as a business owner. And I always tell people. Would you like to give the bank your money, or would you like to keep it?

[00:40:10] It’s going to be one or the other, right? So when you negotiate rate, terms, fees, things like that, that’s the other thing I would suggest that people ask, when they might say a specific rate, or they’ll tell you, these are the fees we charge, things like that. Ask if those are negotiable.

[00:40:30] A lot of people don’t ask. They just say, Oh, okay. Well, it’s what the bank charges. We’re going to just pay it. No, just ask. The worst they’re going to say is no, those are not negotiable. Okay, great. Right. But a lot of times these are negotiable items. If you bring over more deposits sometimes you can negotiate your rate down.

[00:40:50] Or maybe they’re having a promo and you can get a lower fees than what you normally would get. So it never hurts to ask, right? Never hurts to [00:41:00] ask. 

[00:41:01] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love it. That’s a fantastic point. Unless you ask the answer is always no. And so there’s no harm in asking. I love it. Yeah. That applies to everything.

[00:41:13] This included. Right. Right. 

[00:41:16] Anne Dalfiume: Exactly. 

[00:41:17] Desiree Stanley: ll Anne thank you for sharing those final tips with the listeners. I really appreciate it. There are great points to remember and keep in mind going into this process. And I always love to ask my guests if there’s any books that or podcasts that you’ve read or that you listen to that you think would be beneficial for the listeners to check out.

[00:41:39] Anne Dalfiume: Well, honestly, you know. I think being a business owner is a little bit of a lonely, it can be a little lonely sometimes, I mean, I talk with people, but I dunno, I get a little lonely. So I like to listen to audible when I go on walks and things like that. And so I’ve been listening to a lot of Bob Proctor [00:42:00] lately.

[00:42:00] I’ve been listening to I think it basically sales books. Wolf of Wall Street, different things like that, but that’s what I’ve been listening to recently is a lot of Bob Proctor. 

[00:42:11] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Well, I’ll include that in the show notes so that the listeners can take a look at that. And how about podcasts?

[00:42:17] Do you enjoy listening to podcasters? Anything you’d like to share? 

[00:42:21] Anne Dalfiume: I haven’t listened to too many podcasts lately. Not a preference or anything. I just haven’t listened to any, but I’ve listened to yours. 

[00:42:29] Desiree Stanley: Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, Anne thank you for your time today. But before we wrap up, I would love to have you share if people have further questions about what we’ve talked about or want to pick your brain on more of this, how would they reach out to you and ask you those questions?

[00:42:49] Anne Dalfiume: Sure. I am on LinkedIn, it’s under Anne Dalfiume and that, which is a little hard to spell by the way, or you can look up Best Bank Option. I’m also on [00:43:00] Twitter, so we can follow me there and you can also send me a message. And I’m also on Instagram at Best Bank Option. So any one of those ways you’re able to get ahold of me.

[00:43:12] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. And I will for sure include all of that in the show notes so that it’s easy for the listeners to access. And thank you again for sharing your knowledge with us on this topic, because it can be super confusing and understanding like what you need to be prepared to, to respond to for the lender.

[00:43:33] I think that’s. It’s huge in making this process go smoother. So thank you so much for sharing that with us today. I appreciate it. 

[00:43:42] Anne Dalfiume: Thank you for having me. It’s been great. 

[00:43:45] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. We’ll talk more soon. 

[00:43:47] Anne Dalfiume: Okay. Sounds good.

[00:43:48] Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and empower you to achieve [00:44:00] your goals. And thanks again for listening.

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POK_Atousa Raissyan Podcast_11_22_2023
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:20] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge Podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest Atousa Raissyan. I’m so honored to have you on the show, Atousa. Thank you for being here today. How are you? 

[00:00:35] Atousa Raissyan: I am great. Thank you for having me on the show. I’m really excited to be here.

[00:00:41] Desiree Stanley: Wonderfu So Ato Tusa is a heart centered transformative healer and shaman and spiritual guide. And so we’re going to be talking and touching on those topics, but also really about how to live kind of an authentic, empowered life. [00:01:00] And so let’s just jump right in and have you share with us.

[00:01:04] How did this path come to be for you? How did you become a shaman and spiritual guide? 

[00:01:11] Atousa Raissyan: Oh, I believe the path had been chosen for me. I think I had chosen a long time ago when I was a kid and everything in my life. Guided me to get the tools and techniques and everything I needed to get my clients to live a healthier, happier, more centered lives.

[00:01:35] And in order to do that, you know, I had to learn. That for myself had to live from my heart, had to let go of my fears. And I want the listeners to know that the work is never done. It doesn’t matter. Like even gurus, masters, whatever, we are all work in progress. And we are working, you know, releasing layers as [00:02:00] we’re going along and we’re learning.

[00:02:01] Each one of us, we’re teachers and students at the same time. So, yeah, my life was all about to learn to let go of my traumas, my programming, my rules. And all of it was based on a lot of different fears that I had. That over the years I’ve been releasing and letting go of all of it. 

[00:02:26] Desiree Stanley: That’s wonderful.

[00:02:26] Thank you for sharing that. And I think I want to talk a little bit about what you touched on there about how we are students and teachers and Really, we do have this kind of programming from society and parents and situations that we’re in and and a lot of that takes time to really begin to let go of those things and and grow into who you, you know, are supposed to be.

[00:02:55] And so. Do you want to expand on that a little bit and talk about what that’s [00:03:00] meant for you and for the listeners, you know, maybe some things that they can begin to do to work on that. 

[00:03:07] Atousa Raissyan: The journey is always to go inward. whatever you want, you’re asking for on the outside. If you want love, if you want better relationships, happier life, health, whatever it is that you’re seeing outside of yourself, take time to go inside because that’s where you’re going to find all the answers.

[00:03:28] And that’s where once you become aware of yourself and how sort of you’re perceiving different situations, your life your relationships with others. Those are all to guide you again back inside and see, you know, I am be behaving this way. I’m getting triggered right now because of some expectations.

[00:03:54] And then when you sort of like, keep opening it, keep opening it, you’ll see at the base of it. [00:04:00] It’s a fear. It’s a fear of loss usually. And that is where you’re going to have to do the work to become once you’re aware now it’s time to reprogram it because you’ve been going the same route all the time, it’s sort of a program, you’re not mindful of it.

[00:04:20] But now that you sort of like become aware of it, and you shine the flashlight on it, it can’t hide anymore. And that’s where every time it comes up, you have to remind yourself that, hey, I see this, it’s okay, and now I want to choose to do things differently, because that’s again when you’re becoming aware, you realize you have a choice, and that’s where your power is coming from, that I have a choice in this point, I can.

[00:04:51] Do the same thing. Do it a little different. Do it completely different. And it’s all okay.

[00:04:56] Desiree Stanley: Such a wonderful point that you just brought up and how [00:05:00] everything really does. begin with what is happening inside of us and that response that we have to the external factors.

[00:05:09] And I love how you pointed out that what you’re looking for outside really does begin. From inside. And so if you’re looking for love or whatever the case may be, it’s finding that within yourself first. And I think this is something that we probably all know and realize, but serves a great purpose to have it reiterated.

[00:05:35] I think to remember that it does begin from inside.

[00:05:38] Atousa Raissyan: And a lot of people, it’s not that they don’t. know this already, it’s hard, it’s challenging, because you basically are being asked to sit there and look at all those parts that you’ve been running away from, you’ve been hiding from, and you don’t want to look at.

[00:05:57] And that’s why everybody [00:06:00] says, Oh, meditation is so hard, or everybody’s running around, because you know, as soon as you sit, You’re going to have to face yourself as soon as you go inside, you’re going to have to face those things and there are a lot of people they’re afraid to look at it. They want to hide it labeling it as bad or did a lot of things as bad and I don’t want anybody to find out about this, but all those things are still in there and hiding from it, running away from it.

[00:06:30] It’s not going to. I think that’s what COVID actually helped us a lot was that a lot of people that were running away because of their jobs and activities, everything shut down and now you were faced with you. And that was a beautiful gift that I think universe gave us. Yes, there was a lot of.

[00:06:53] hardship in it. And also it gave a lot of people to stop, [00:07:00] pause and have to forcefully go inside and see all the triggers, their emotions, their traumas, their programming, all of it. And then when they became aware, they had to choose differently. 

[00:07:13] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, excellent point there we did have that opportunity given such a difficult challenging time, but it gave us all that. Time to reflect and pause and look at some things maybe that we didn’t want to look at, but it did give us that opportunity if we took it and I love that you mentioned about the things maybe that we’re running away from or trying to be too busy to look at and those things that we’re naming as bad or maybe are shameful or whatever.

[00:07:51] Again, it’s It’s putting a label on whatever the thing is and, you know, not addressing it. And so I think that that’s [00:08:00] such a great point is maybe remembering that we don’t need to label these things. And by removing that label, we can examine it on a level that makes it easier to let go right of, of letting go of that.

[00:08:16] Atousa Raissyan: Exactly. I think one of the biggest issues for people is that we have managed to carry a booklet of labels, everything falls either good, bad category. just unjust, fair unfair. And then with that, then we’re carrying a scale that we’re constantly trying to balance this scale of good and bad, just unjust you know, good versus evil, whatever you want to call it.

[00:08:50] We’re keeping this balance because of all these labels we have, but truly this is all We’re carrying it because we’re afraid [00:09:00] we’re afraid that what if somebody takes my stuff? What if I lose myself? It’s all fear base and when we let go of that fear and realize if all of us actually Sort of goes through life from a heart centered space You are guided to a place that you don’t need any of those labels and people actually will not harm each other, will not take things from each other.

[00:09:30] The way that those things are happening because of fear. Because of those struggles that fear has created, and it’s not just now, I mean, it’s coming back from our history, long, long time ago, many, many, many ages ago, beginning of time, that all the wars, beginning of civilization, that this has been passed down, passed down, all the fears, power struggles, based on those fears, and now, we’re so afraid [00:10:00] of, you know, somebody taking our stuff, What if I don’t have it, I need more, and therefore we’re trying to keep this balance.

[00:10:10] And a lot of people are afraid to follow their hearts because they haven’t used it. And they, again, looking at it as bad. What if my heart tells me to quit my job? What if my heart tells me to go eat a pint of ice cream? What if my heart tells me to go cheat on my husband?

[00:10:29] the point of it is that first of all, if your heart is saying those things, there’s a reason behind it. You got to go find that reason what’s there that in your heart, you’re seeking those things, you’re wanting those things. And when you find that answer, then again, that awareness allows you to 

[00:10:49] see your choices.

[00:10:51] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And it’s like unraveling a little bit of the puzzle, if you will, you know, the things that when you really look at [00:11:00] what’s going on behind these thoughts, desires or whatever. What’s happening there, and you can kind of get deeper into an answer to that and then make different choices or choose a different path or whatever the case may be, so that’s such a great point.

[00:11:21] So let’s talk then a little bit about how we’re using that to or we can use that to have a more empowered life. 

[00:11:31] Atousa Raissyan: The first thing is that again, awareness, it’s always, always awareness because you got to see, and awareness is a 24 seven. I tell people, you know, when you are practicing awareness, it really is.

[00:11:47] 24 seven, even in the middle of the night, if you’re waking up, there has to be this sort of like call it higher self and neutral observer, whatever you [00:12:00] want to call it, that this is the state that is watching and seeing, Hey, you know, fear came up, fear program came up. Oh, look, there’s anger coming up in this conversation inside me, there’s sadness coming up.

[00:12:14] And when you’re seeing those emotions, you’re becoming aware. then you won’t react, you won’t react outside. Even if you, lose control, let’s say, and you know, you react again, you’re watching it, you’re aware of it, and you can back out of it, you can say, sorry, I just right now I’m being triggered and I need to go and look at it.

[00:12:37] But that awareness is where You get to see what rules you’re carrying, what labels you’re carrying, you know, and again, you want to be more heart center choices. Am I making my choices from my heart or am I making my choices from a place of fear? And it’s okay. I tell people all the time, it’s [00:13:00] okay if you’re choosing based on fear, because right now that’s where you’re at.

[00:13:06] You can’t move beyond the fear. But because of that awareness and because you’re seeing your choice, you are going to gradually shift from that place because each time you’re faced with a similar situation, you’re going to be aware, you’re going to pause and you’re going to say, well, now today I can move a little bit more toward love.

[00:13:28] I can move a little bit away from the fear now and soon you’re completely shifted and in a different place. Yeah. 

[00:13:37] Desiree Stanley: And I can see how over time, as you’re faced with these situations, as long as you are addressing them in your mind about, you know, maybe why did I respond in this way? How can I handle it differently?

[00:13:52] That that really can be very empowering because now you’re making those choices differently that will lead [00:14:00] down a different road entirely. 

[00:14:03] Atousa Raissyan: Yes, yes, very true. And one more thing I wanted to mention about the heart space. I talked about the fear before. You got to practice it even on a daily basis. So you kind of distinguish Is it really my heart or is it something else disguised as the heart?

[00:14:23] And I say when you do practices like everyday mundane stuff that your mind doesn’t get involved, sort of like the clothes you want to wear, the food you want to eat. You’re having your coffee and you’re thinking, should I put oat milk or almond milk? You know, I want a snack. You know, do I want orange, apple or broccoli?

[00:14:48] But all those things, when you have those different choices. Then taking each choice and sort of like feeling it as if you’re bringing it to your heart center and sometimes with the physical stuff I tell people, [00:15:00] actually pick it up. If you, if it’s a clothes or food or item that you can hold in your hand, hold it in your hand and bring it close to your heart.

[00:15:09] Set it down, take the next choice and you’re going to see it feels different and that’s what you want to start noticing that difference in that energy of when your heart is like, Yes, this gets me excited. This is what I want versus no, not really. And then you get to see that for them, you know, those bigger stuff that your mind gets triggered with the fear.

[00:15:35] Yeah. Then you can distinguish, no, my heart really wants this, but I can see now that my mind has the fear and is telling me this is not the best choice. Okay. You know, my fear is too loud and I know my heart wants this. So let’s find the middle way. What’s the easiest way that I can. Do this so that I’m not going crazy with the fear and [00:16:00] I’m not totally letting my heart make the decision, find the middle ground until you can make the switch.

[00:16:07] Desiree Stanley: And I think for sure, there’s many, many of us that do or do not do things based on fear, right? So I can see how when you are. Sort of run by fear. You’re going to be making very different choices than if you, use your heart to decide truly, is this important to me? Is this the direction I want to go?

[00:16:32] And certainly if it’s a change of career or something like that, there’s going to be concern about, well, I have enough income to support my family and lifestyle and so on, but then that’s where you’ve really got to decide is, is this what my heart is saying I want to do and how do I make that transition so that it can also potentially support my family and my lifestyle or whatever the case may [00:17:00] be.

[00:17:01] Atousa Raissyan: Exactly. And the rules, you know, we touched on rules earlier. You gotta get to become aware of these rules that you have. I know, like, for myself, I had these crazy rules that I actually put together a channel on Instagram, and I post some of these different things that come up, it’s sort of inspirational stories.

[00:17:26] And I mentioned to people, I used to have a rule just for shower, believe it or not, the time of the day that I would shower. And this rule, you know, it sounds like crazy, you said to tell people like what? You had a shower rule? I said I did, and I wasn’t aware of it, but it actually stemmed, from a time when I was little.

[00:17:52] We lived in a house that we didn’t have hot water, so we had to go outside. There was [00:18:00] these public bath houses, and we used to take shower there. I hated it, so that was one thing that I hated showers. Then the other thing was that when we went there, And if it was cold, you know, coming out with the wet hair and everything, and just that cold as you come out of the hot shower, I hated that.

[00:18:23] So, and I was brainwashed to say your hair cannot be wet outside. You’re going to catch a cold. That was always what they told me. You don’t want to take a shower at night and go to bed. You’re going to get sick. So all these things they had told me. So I was actually. Afraid to take showers that my hair would be wet.

[00:18:43] It’s cold outside. So I had to justify when I went to shower so that my hair would get dry. And because of this rule, it affected my exercise. It affected so many other things. There was [00:19:00] just silliness but seeing it breaking it down. I started to notice. Okay. Okay. You know again, what’s my heart really want?

[00:19:10] My heart wants to go exercise right now and there’s somebody afraid we can’t exercise because then we gotta take a shower and it’s gonna be this and Soon that awareness and seeing all of that it switched so many things for me 

[00:19:28] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such a great point. I think there was a lot of us that had that you know, same kind of thing told to us you can’t go out with your wet hair, you’re going to catch a cold, you know, and the nighttime and all of that stuff, a hundred percent, you know, grew up with those kinds of expressions being told to me.

[00:19:45] So I can appreciate that, but, Yeah. When you realize how limiting those things are, you can choose differently. And I love that you just, you know, shared that story.[00:20:00] Yeah, 

[00:20:00] Atousa Raissyan: exactly. Exactly. And I said it so people understand, like, it can be as silly as taking a shower. We have rules that we’re not aware of, but that’s why I’m saying you got to go inside and everything you’re doing, why am I doing this?

[00:20:17] Even making your bed, ask yourself. My son actually one time said, who am I making my bed for? My door is closed and my bed, actually, I like to air it out. I don’t want to make it first thing in the morning. Why do I have to, as soon as I get up, make my bed? I was like. He’s right.

[00:20:36] Actually, that makes sense. You know, he slept in that bed the whole night and he’s probably sweated. It’s good to actually not cover it up. Let it breathe. Why and it was again, another rule that I grew up with and out of fear, I had carried it. I was trying to give it to him. I’m like, Yeah, you’re right.

[00:20:56] No, we don’t need this rule. 

[00:20:58] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, totally. [00:21:00] I agree a hundred percent with that, that idea of immediately making your bed in the morning. And as a child, it’s like, that’s just what you were supposed to do. And who said and why, and what is the purpose? And you know, it’s some thing that they were told and they were told before them and it just all got passed down.

[00:21:21] And so I love that when you’re looking at these things, even as minor as a showering or making your bed, like, why am I doing this? Do I need to do this really? Is it truly important to me? And you know, choose differently. So I love that. Let’s talk now a little bit about how we can be truly authentic all of the time.

[00:21:46] And this is something I think a lot of us are hearing is like being authentic. It’s how do we be authentic and what does it mean to be authentic? And are we being our authentic self? So let’s talk about that a little [00:22:00] bit. 

[00:22:01] Atousa Raissyan: I love that topic because I think especially if people have chosen a spiritual path, let’s say, and everything is about, you know, what’s my path.

[00:22:18] Who do I need to be? How do I know my truth? And so again, with those questions, even as you’re saying it, you’re seeing like you’re going outside of yourself, even with that, and truly being what I’m supposed to be. There is nothing to be. Being is, I’m, I am me now, who am I, who else am I going to be? And again, it goes back to fear.

[00:22:48] The reason we don’t know, how to be is because of all these personas we’ve created throughout our lives. As a kind of daughter to your [00:23:00] dad, a daughter to your mom, you know, being a sibling, these are all different costumes, personas, who you are at work, who you are with your friends and all those different costumes again, to keep yourself safe and make sure you’re accepted and loved and supported in different situations by your family, by your friends.

[00:23:23] Oh my God. Because. You never know when I’m going to need somebody and I need to be loved and accepted. And that also touches on money issues for a lot of people. So all those costumes that you’ve created, Is what is hiding the real you who you want to be because you don’t know who you are you each time you’re wearing a different costume.

[00:23:47] So again, going inside and seeing yourself. Why am I right now hiding myself in this conversation with my friend or why can’t I just say what I [00:24:00] really want? Those things are going to allow you to. Sort of release all those avatars, personas, costumes, whatever you want to call it. And at end of the day. You can be who you are, meaning like, I speak whatever I feel to speak, my heart is telling me to speak, I can do whatever my heart is saying at this moment, do this, go this way, say this, sit down, get up, it’s like a natural process of the body, you know, you don’t tell your body if you wanna do that.

[00:24:33] It’s like a natural process of the body, you know, you don’t tell your body if you wanna do that. Like right now, if I wanted to get up and go to the door, I’m not going to say, Hey legs, we’re going to start getting to the door, you know? Okay. Arms. It’s a natural function. It moves. It goes. It’s like, you know, you don’t even think about it.

[00:24:50] Your body takes you there. That’s the same thing. Once you let go of those costumes and avatars and personas, it’s naturally, you [00:25:00] are just naturally you and in every moment you just flow with the conversations, with the interactions and you don’t need to hide yourself. 

[00:25:10] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s, that’s wonderful. I thank you for sharing that because I think so many of us are.

[00:25:19] Wanting to be liked, right, wanting to be accepted. And so assuming that we have to be a different way with different people in order to be liked, to be accepted, to be included. And really you don’t need to be any different than you are, which is what it sounds like you’re saying right now. 

[00:25:43] Atousa Raissyan: Exactly. Even when I get to work with my clients, you know, it’s a progression.

[00:25:50] And at some point during our sessions we get to this point that we’ve released enough stuff that now I can go release a lot of, [00:26:00] you know, if not all, but a lot of their avatars that they’ve created. And they’re always so surprised that I can list out. Anywhere from like 20, sometimes 27 avatars that they’re carrying.

[00:26:15] And they’re just amazing. Some of them, they get really sad. It’s like, I really have hidden myself from everybody. And even those of us that have kids we have a mom persona that, you know, we get that out with our kids, even that needs to be released. I can be me, no matter what, doesn’t matter, I don’t need anything else.

[00:26:42] Desiree Stanley: Thank you so much for sharing that. I think that is so true. I mean, I don’t know necessarily if there’s 27 different personas that I have, but certainly I can see that I have been a certain way as a mom, you know, been a certain way as a daughter, been a [00:27:00] certain way as an employee or employer, and, you know, been a certain way hosting this podcast.

[00:27:06] I can absolutely see that. There’s some, a little bit of a variation in, in all of those things. And it sort of seems like you think I need to be that way because it makes sense for the situation that I’m in. And perhaps a little bit of that is true. Like, you know, maybe you wouldn’t curse in front of your children, but you, if you’re out with your friends and you’re having a good time, you might use, you know, foul language with your friends.

[00:27:33] And so I could see how some things maybe make sense. But it doesn’t necessarily have to be absolute, complete, different, you know, in every situation. 

[00:27:44] Atousa Raissyan: To be honest, even that for me, I stopped that as well, the cursing, because I said, you know, if that’s the situation, and I always taught him that as well, if the situation really calls for [00:28:00] it, and that’s the best way you can express your emotions at that point.

[00:28:04] Go for it. It can be a happy emotion. It can be like you bumped your foot and you’re like, and it’s fine. But as long as you’re not using it to hurt anybody, we’re good. And that’s the way, I mean, if the situation calls for it, I do curse. I don’t curse that much, but if it calls for it, I do. And I give him that option as well.

[00:28:30] That, you know, if the situation calls for it, yeah, you’re not. It’s okay. Go for it. 

[00:28:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So then let’s talk a little bit about how you work on, you know, kind of unifying or and or releasing all of those different personas that you have, because really it seems more like you need to let that go. Right?

[00:28:54] Atousa Raissyan: Exactly. It goes back. The rules are going to help all the things we’ve talked about, awareness, [00:29:00] labels. Seeing your choices, seeing the rules you have, those are all going to show you those personas, those avatars, so you can release them. And you know, each time you’re talking to someone, check in with your heart.

[00:29:17] Again, once you’ve noticed that how your heart is responding to things that is really for you versus not for you, and you sort of feel that energy, now if you’re in a conversation and you’re like, I was feeling fine. And this conversation, like. Oh my God, I’m getting anxious right now. That should immediately tell you, Hey, I’m trying to hide something right now because I don’t want this person to see that in me.

[00:29:45] And I don’t want them to see that because I’m afraid if they see that, then they might think this and they don’t want to do this. And then I’m going to lose it. And they’re going to tell so and so and then, Oh my God, I’m going to lose all my friends and I’m going to be alone by myself with no [00:30:00] friends.

[00:30:00] And you’ll see how it goes from like something this small. To this fear of, you know. losing everything. And once you start noticing those things and you feel again, gradually reminding yourself, I’m safe. I’m loved. I don’t need to carry this anymore. Those are actually, that’s one of the best mantras.

[00:30:23] I think everybody can get up every morning, say to themselves the whole day, just let that run in the background. I’m safe. I’m all as well. Reminding you you’ve created this. everything that we talked about out of fear. And once you realize that that message go, I’m safe, I’m loved all as well. And now, okay, from this space, what do I want to Say right now, how do I want to behave right now?

[00:30:53] Where do I want to go? What do I want to do? 

[00:30:57] Desiree Stanley: I love that. That’s excellent. Thank [00:31:00] you for that reminder of what to say when you’re sort of in that space of fear, Worry, concern, I am safe. I am loved all as well. That’s wonderful. Thank you for sharing that I want to transition a little bit Atousa you are an acclaimed author.

[00:31:19] And we were talking before we began about the book that you’ve written. And so I would love for you to share that with us now, tell us the name of the book and the award that you just actually received. 

[00:31:33] Atousa Raissyan: Yes, thank you. Thank you. So the book here, I’ll hold it up since we’re doing video as well. The cover is my artwork and it’s called Change Yourself, Change the World, Transform your Fear Based Reality to Choosing Love and Seeing Magic.

[00:31:49] And I share my story of how I got to shift and then each chapter provides sort of [00:32:00] like I’ve broken down that awareness, choice, taking responsibility, love and gratitude. So each chapter talks about the different steps you need to go through to live a more heart centered life. And then I have practical exercises at the end and more stories from other clients.

[00:32:20] And it’s really the steps that I wanted to, I was like, how can I. Get other people that they’re not working with me one on one. How can I get them to start shifting as well? So that was the idea behind the book. And it was, number one bestseller on Amazon in different categories. And this weekend I won the book fest awards two first place awards.

[00:32:46] And one second place award for the book and the two first place was for self help transformational and body, mind, spirit healing. And the second place was self help anxiety. [00:33:00] So it was a big surprise and yeah, really grateful for that. 

[00:33:07] Desiree Stanley: Well, congratulations. That is fantastic. I love, I love that. First of all, again, congratulations.

[00:33:14] Well done. And I love that you have broken it down in such a way that, you know, you can easily grasp the, the concepts and the topics, and then you’ve got practical things that you can do. I absolutely love that. I think, That is really where you can make changes when you’ve got those practical tips and suggestions and things to do really, I think that makes all the difference.

[00:33:40] So I love that. Thank you for sharing that. So let’s talk a little bit a little bit deeper into the book. Maybe just give us a section that the listeners might be able to know more about what the book can teach them. And take it away. 

[00:33:59] Atousa Raissyan: [00:34:00] So like I said, it’s broken down into different sections.

[00:34:03] And then in those sections, even if you don’t like the practice exercises at the end, tell you like on a daily basis, things you can do, but with the sections I’ve given enough exercises and broken it down so that it helps you, even if you don’t. Do the exercise. It sort of makes you look inside and find those things in yourselves.

[00:34:27] Like, yeah, I’m doing this. Yeah, this makes sense. So and a lot of people what they’ve told me is that They like the hardcover better because then they keep, you know, they have like tabs and post its in there and they keep going back and, you know, rereading certain sections and some people they told me they use it as sort of like, you know, like a tarot card or something that you open it up to a page and see what it’s going to tell you for the day.

[00:34:56] So that’s how they’ve used it, you know, they’ve read through it and now [00:35:00] they’re using it that way. But really it’s just to be used as a guide to start letting go of the fears or at least becoming aware of it. And one of the biggest chapters in there that I tell everyone is taking responsibility because that’s how you get to see your choices as well.

[00:35:22] You’re not blaming your situations. You’re not blaming God or Universe or anything like that. You’re saying, no, this is, this is my life and I’m creating it and I get to create it however I want. And I ended by, throughout our life, the way that we get to see each other is through duality.

[00:35:46] Good and bad, all those labels that we’ve had, light and dark, shadow and light, all those things is for us to be able to see ourselves more clearly. Because, sort of like if you want to clap, you can’t clap with [00:36:00] one hand, you got to clap with both hands. And that’s the way to see things and feel things.

[00:36:06] But then once you sort of realize and see yourself fully. Now, the next step is the more delicious one that you get to see that all of this, I’m all of it, the unity of this, I’m one with everything, everyone, and the whole world. And that duality is just a part of me as well and I don’t need to even run away from that.

[00:36:32] I don’t need to say I need to be all light or I need to release my shadows. You know, that awareness allows you to say, Hey, no, that’s just in me and I’ll get to see all of me now and it’s okay. 

[00:36:48] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, I love that. That’s such a great point. As we know, we need kind of the two sides. 

[00:36:55] To appreciate the whole and that you [00:37:00] don’t have to just be all good. You, nobody can be all good all the time. It’s just not possible. Life is 50 50 anyway, right? There’s ups, there’s downs. We, we know this, we’ve all experienced this. So remembering that even within ourselves there’s light, there’s dark, there’s good, there’s bad, there’s both sides of it, but that makes the whole 

[00:37:22] Atousa Raissyan: exactly, exactly that’s, that’s what makes us whole and complete is that that duality inside of us is just for us to better see ourself and experience life as well.

[00:37:34] You know, if you had chocolate all the time and you never tasted anything sour, you know, the first time, first of all, you’re going to get sick of it, and you say, Oh my God, chocolate again. I hate chocolate. I’ve had it for 10 years. Can I have something new? And the first time you’re going to taste that.

[00:37:52] Sour is like, Oh my God, what is this? Wow. I love this. And that’s why you see the little kids, you [00:38:00] know, you give them different, they don’t know the taste and you give them like sweet and then you give them sour. They’re like, you know, I don’t know which one I like. I kind of like both of them, you know, because you’re trying different things.

[00:38:11] And that’s the whole point to realizing yourself and it’s okay, as long as. We take those labels out because when we use those words, those labels, we put an energy behind it and that’s what we’re reacting to. But if you take all that out of it, then you’re not reacting to it. It’s just saying right or left, you know, light and shadow, right.

[00:38:38] When you say light and shadow, it’s like, Oh, light is good. Shadow’s bad. But when you say right and left, like. Okay, right and left. You don’t react to it. 

[00:38:47] Desiree Stanley: There’s no connotation behind right or left being good or bad or any of that. It’s just their words. Exactly. 

[00:38:57] Atousa Raissyan: Exactly. 

[00:38:58] Desiree Stanley: Well, I’m going to touch [00:39:00] on. Something that you really share and work with your clients on and that’s connecting to you and the Universe and really discovering the magic. And so I’d love for you to expand on that a little bit and tell us more. 

[00:39:17] Atousa Raissyan: A lot of my clients I mean, whether they’re healers or they don’t know their healers or therapists, whatever, when they come it’s sort of.

[00:39:28] Everybody, all those fears, it’s hidden, that part of themselves that, you know, they’ve hidden again, just for them to be, and when would they let go of those personas? You get comfortable into that trust, going back to, again, I’m safe, I’m loved all as well. So you get to create this trust in yourself and trust in the world and the Universe.

[00:39:53] And the more you do it, you sort of like. opening up. Because fear gets you to close up and you’re [00:40:00] saying, well, you know, I want to receive this, but you can’t receive anything if you’re holding guard. So when you open yourself up slowly and you’re trusting, then you sort of like notice life differently, notice things a little bit differently.

[00:40:15] And you’re seeing like you’re getting messages from all these different places and everything becomes like a different It, the brighter, more colorful, and you go for a walk and suddenly feel like, okay, now everything I feel like is talking to me. And magic is just that. Magic is not, you know, we feel like, oh, it has to be something big magic.

[00:40:42] It could be like today you went for a walk and sort of something was in your mind. And on your walk, a person walked by and mentioned something or smiled or said, how do you do? And sort of that exchange of energy sort of brought you [00:41:00] back that smile, lift you up. Or you were driving and behind the car, you saw a bumper sticker that was saying exactly what you needed to hear.

[00:41:11] A song comes on. All of that is magic. A lot of people say, Oh, it’s just coincidence. It No, it’s things that are whatever that is making you feel better and making you feel, you know, uplifting you and allowing you to open up more, use it, allow it in. And that’s how you receive that magic more and more as you trust and open up.

[00:41:38] Then you’re seeing it everywhere all the time from the sun to the wind to the leaves on the trees. You know, I used to say when I go for a walk, I feel like the leaves are saying, hi, because there’s like, you know, the one leaf, you know, it’s just shaking like this. They’re like, well, that’s the wind.

[00:41:57] I’m like, you call it the wind. There’s [00:42:00] one leaf, all the other leaves, they’re steady. There’s one leaf going like this. To me, that’s the leaf saying hi to me. And I feel good about that. Nobody else needs to believe in that. I can believe in it and feel good and have fun with it. That’s my magic.

[00:42:16] Desiree Stanley: That’s fantastic. The story of that is, is I can see it and I love it. So thank you for sharing that. And, I think the idea of coincidence and we can call it coincidence, but I really think it’s the Universe, you know, showing us what we need to hear or what we need to see to, to grow.

[00:42:41] And I love that if you just. Trust and be open to those, those signs, if you will you can get so much from it. So that’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. 

[00:42:54] Atousa Raissyan: Yeah, exactly. One more thing I wanted to mention about that, that’s how you feel the [00:43:00] support of the Universe. That’s how you feel like you can let go of the fear then because you’re getting those little nuggets that tells you you’re on the right path, you, you know.

[00:43:11] There’s so much love and support around you. You’re not even seeing it, go for it, move forward. And that’s what that magic, when you open yourself up, it’s going to give you. And those naysayers, or they’re saying coincidence, or it’s just this, that let them have it. You just follow that feeling that feels good for you and your heart.

[00:43:35] And let it all go. And it’s going to get so big, it’s going to drown everybody else out anyway. 

[00:43:41] Desiree Stanley: And if nothing else, you’re just still sending love and radiating love and letting people be as they need to be. And eventually it’ll reach them. 

[00:43:54] Atousa Raissyan: Exactly, exactly. Perfect. Yes, definitely. 

[00:43:57] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, Atousa I have so [00:44:00] enjoyed our conversation.

[00:44:01] It has been so wonderful. I love that you shared your book and I would like for you to you know, go ahead and read the title to us. So those who maybe aren’t watching on YouTube will know, and I’ll include it of course, in the show notes. And then if there’s any other books that have been beneficial or influential for you that you’d like to share, I would love for that as well.

[00:44:24] Atousa Raissyan: For sure. Thank you. The name of the book again is Change Yourself, Change the World. And the subtitle is Transform your Fear Based Reality to Choosing Love and Seeing Magic. And if you go on Amazon, search my name it’s going to pop up or put my name and says change yourself, it’s going to pop up, you won’t miss the cover.

[00:44:48] And my two favorite things actually, Rumi poems, if you are into poetry and you can get into and understand the Rumi [00:45:00] poems, I say go for it because they are just, It’s magical and amazing and they will guide you to all those places of love inside of you and connect you back to the Universe. And I have another favorite book that, you know, from time to time I go back and read it again is the Alchemist from Paulo Coelho. And that’s one of my favorite books. 

[00:45:27] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah. Excellent. Wonderful. Recommendations. Thank you for sharing those. I’ll include those in the show notes for sure to make it easy for the listeners to find. And there is a quote that I like very much from Rumi and it’s, it’s basically like, don’t worry if your life is upside down.

[00:45:48] How do you know this way is not better? Yes. It’s one of my favorites. 

[00:45:53] Atousa Raissyan: It is one of my favorites. I actually have artwork for that one. Because some of my artwork there were [00:46:00] inspired by Rumi and that is one of my favorites because you really don’t know. You really don’t know. There’s so much magic.

[00:46:08] Just when you think, that’s why if you look at everything in your life as a gift And take those labels out, it doesn’t mean anything. It’s like, oh, you know, because everything’s teaching you, everything’s moving you closer to that place that you’re, really your heart is desiring and you want to get to.

[00:46:27] And yeah, sometimes it looks weird, but you need to look at it another angle to see it. Yeah. I love that one. Good boy. Good boy. 

[00:46:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. 

[00:46:38] Atusa, before we close out, I do want to ask you if there are questions that people have or they want to follow along your journey and what you’re doing, how would they be able to find you? Do you have a website, email, socials that you would like to share? Go ahead and do so. 

[00:46:56] Atousa Raissyan: Thank you. My website which is [00:47:00] atousaraissyan.Com. It’s my full name altogether. Has all my social media on there, but I’m on Instagram and on LinkedIn and I’m on Facebook and also YouTube. But you know, most of it is Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. So you can, Instagram is the easiest. It’s Atusa R. And Facebook is @Soulistic. So, but all those links are on my website and please go ahead, DM me, email me.

[00:47:29] You know, even if you just want to say, hi, I listened to the show and I loved it, or I love what you said here, please go ahead, reach out. I would love to hear from you. 

[00:47:39] Desiree Stanley: Fantastic. I’ll for sure include all that information in the show notes as well. And thank you for sharing that with us so that the listeners can find you that that’s wonderful.

[00:47:49] Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your knowledge with us. And it has just been an honor to have you on. So thank you so much. 

[00:47:58] Atousa Raissyan: Oh my God. The honor is mine. [00:48:00] Thank you. I had a blast. This was awesome. Thank you so much for having me on your show. 

[00:48:05] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. Well, we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:48:07] Atousa Raissyan: Definitely. 

[00:48:09] Desiree Stanley: Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and empower you to achieve your goals. And thanks again for listening.

______________________________________

POK_Lisa Goldberg Podcast_11_15_2023
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge Podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Lisa Goldberg. Welcome to the show, Lisa. How are you today? 

[00:00:34] Lisa Goldberg: I’m great. Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here with you today. 

[00:00:38] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. And I am thrilled that you’re joining us. Lisa is the founder of Lisa Goldberg Nutrition, and she’s going to be talking about her philosophy on nutrition and wellness.

[00:00:51] And we’ll dive into that a little deeper as we go. But you’re also an author, and I’d love for you to share your book with us so we [00:01:00] can take a look at that. But to start, I think I’d love to know, what was the driving force behind creating Lisa Goldberg Nutrition? 

[00:01:09] Lisa Goldberg: well, I started struggling with my weight when I got to be a freshman in college, which I think for a lot of people is where they first start to have their weight gain experience since the freshman 15.

[00:01:22] For me, it was the freshman 20. But regardless, because we’re in a different environment, we’re just. You know, uncomfortable. We’re not, for me, it was just like, you know, I wasn’t sitting down to dinner with my family for those home cooked meals. And it was more late nights, more going out, more just that kind of food.

[00:01:42] And starting there, it was my 10 year journey with yo yo dieting, gaining the weight and losing the weight, then gaining the weight and losing the weight. And so I actually thought about becoming a nutritionist during that experience, [00:02:00] but then I found out because a roommate of mine was studying to be a nutritionist about all the sciences, organic chemistry, biochemistry, and I was like, eh, I’ll just major in something else.

[00:02:11] You know, fast forward, my career took me from being somebody in retail marketing to fitness, and I became a personal trainer. I worked in the fitness industry and in management in a one of the big Equinoxes in New York City. And then ultimately I ended up Deciding that my passion was really nutrition because I was giving so much nutrition information to my personal training clients.

[00:02:38] That ultimately I went back to school for my master’s in nutrition and here I am Lisa Goldberg nutrition. 

[00:02:45] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s fantastic. So thank you for sharing that journey with us. And I think that that experience of the freshman 15 or freshman 20 is, is a common thread throughout a lot of the colleges for people who, as you [00:03:00] said, they’re out of their normal eating routines into some, you know, new, you’re snacking while you’re studying or you’re snacking with your friends. And so that really, I think, plays a part in those changes that are happening. So you were not alone. I know there’s a lot of people who have experienced that, but let’s talk a little bit about the science, if you will, of what you began learning On the nutrition aspect of it.

[00:03:29] And, and what is it that you really try to impart with those that you work with? 

[00:03:34] Lisa Goldberg: Well, it’s interesting. So when I first got my degree in nutrition and I started counseling my clients, what we learn in school as nutritionists evolves around protein, fat, and carbohydrates and calories. And I was imparting on my clients who were coming to me, the majority of my clients when I first started out in the world came to me for weight loss.[00:04:00] 

[00:04:00] And what I noticed was all of my clients, at the end of our counseling session and then prior to me putting a plan together for them, all seemed to ask me the same question. And that question was, well, What can I snack on after dinner? Because in the plans that I was creating, there was no snack after dinner.

[00:04:23] Because the assumption was, well, you just ate dinner, you shouldn’t be hungry. Why do you need more food? But so many of them, men and women ask the same question that one day I was like, there’s something here. So I started to do my own research with mindful eating, emotional eating, and what that really looked like.

[00:04:45] And that’s how I really started to do the work that I do, because for most people, it’s less about. For people who want to lose weight, let me put it that way. For people who struggle with their weight, they lose the weight, they gain it back, kind of [00:05:00] like that, those years of yo yo dieting that I experienced.

[00:05:04] And it’s not that people don’t know what they should or shouldn’t be eating to lose weight. It’s the habits and behaviors and the mindset that they become programmed with as the years go on and that programming starts. When we’re younger. So for me, it still started when I was a teenager, though. I was 18.

[00:05:30] I began to develop habits that led me to gain the weight, but how I chose to lose the weight was through a diet which was never sustainable. So what I started to realize was my clients who were coming to me, they had all Lost weight before and gained it back probably many times and then they were coming to me for weight loss and as I started to put the pieces of the puzzle [00:06:00] together, I began to realize that that there’s more here than just meets the eye that these people eat too much and or they don’t know what they should be eating because they do because they’ve lost weight before.

[00:06:12] So everybody knew how to lose weight. What they didn’t know was why they keep gaining the weight back and how to maintain the weight that they’ve lost. My journey and my research and my further education for myself on mindset, on habits, on emotional eating, on self care, self esteem, self confidence, because it’s all intertwined.

[00:06:37] Which is why for so many people losing weight and keeping it off is so difficult because they never focus on that part when they try to lose the weight. 

[00:06:49] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s a great point. The mindset, the habits, you know, all these things that are surrounding the diet of, you [00:07:00] know, trying to lose weight. We don’t focus on that aspect of it.

[00:07:04] You’re 100 percent right. We’re focusing on what calories do I need to cut out? How much more work, like exercise do I need to do to burn more calories and not those things that are really. The foundation, I think of making any change, right? The, the mindset and looking at your behaviors and your habits.

[00:07:24] So great points. Let’s talk a little bit then about the mindset aspect of it. And what are you suggesting to your clients that are helping to make some changes for them? 

[00:07:36] Lisa Goldberg: Well, I have a framework that I follow first. It’s important that my clients learn how to eat in the life that they live.

[00:07:44] It’s the only way because how you eat to lose the weight is how you need to continue eating to keep the weight off that you’ve lost. So the dieting industry has kind of perpetuated this false notion that in order to lose weight, you have to cut [00:08:00] out all of the foods you love. And restrict everything and so people are afraid of carbohydrates, they’re afraid of a cookie, they’re afraid of having a cocktail, and they cut all of that stuff out until the weight loss is achieved, or they can’t take it anymore.

[00:08:18] And then they tend to binge on all the things that they’ve been depriving themselves of. So, it’s really important that you eat in a way that’s doable and sustainable for your lifetime. Because you really have to like what you eat. And my philosophy that I share with them is how much and how often over the course of a week.

[00:08:39] Because everybody could keep… Their week top of mind or it’s easy to write down a week versus, you know, months on end. And so I share with my clients about they get to and the words that they use. Are important because this is really about changing how your brain is wired. This is about changing your programming.

[00:08:59] The [00:09:00] words that you use matter. So I try really hard. And if you ever hear somebody speak about that, they had an indulgence versus they treated themselves. They’re probably one of my clients because it’s really important that you don’t think of food as a treat because. That means you somehow have this notion that this particular food, which is typically unhealthy food, is special, and that’s why people think of it as a reward.

[00:09:30] And it’s all this childhood stuff, all the verbiage, all the language. It’s about changing the way you think and speak about food. Eating in a way that’s… doable and sustainable and knowing that once or twice over the course of a week you can indulge whether it’s something sweet or you like something crunchy and salty or I use a bacon cheese burger and fry some high calorie fattening food that might not necessarily be healthy for us but we like the way it [00:10:00] tastes and I’ve seen it I’ve been doing this work for over 20 years.

[00:10:05] You can’t indulge, and it’s not a cheat day, so you don’t get to eat crappy the whole entire day. And if you want a piece of cake, you can’t have half a cake, right? It’s a piece of cake. You get to indulge, and when it’s a mindful indulgence, when you choose it, when it’s not emotionally driven, you actually get the pleasure, because we eat that food for pleasure because we like the way it tastes. And if you don’t feel like it’s scarce or that you’re doing something wrong, if you eat that and you’re not punishing yourself for it, you get the pleasure and you move on. That’s really what I really try to impart on my clients about how to feed and fuel their bodies.

[00:10:47] The other part that, so we do the nutrition aspect. So that’s the work that I do with them which does involve Mindset change, but then the mindset changes first creating an awareness. [00:11:00] Of what are the habits and behaviors that you have that are either get you to be overweight in the first place or cause you to regain the weight once you lose it.

[00:11:10] So what do you do? What is the habit? Is it eating after dinner? Is it grazing all day long? Is it not eating all day long because you think the less I eat the better and then you eat one huge meal at night that your body just can’t metabolize because it’s so much food at once, right? So what is the behavior?

[00:11:29] Do you clean your plate? Even though you’re full because you’ve been taught you shouldn’t waste food. So there’s all of that stuff and then there’s what I call monitoring your messaging and that’s your self talk. Because you will do whatever you tell yourself to do if you listen closely If you’re somebody who struggles with emotional eating and then you yo yo diet or you’ve been a dieter your whole entire life, you have what I refer to as the [00:12:00] dieter’s mindset or the dieter’s mentality.

[00:12:02] You have a way of thinking where you say something to yourself like, I blew it. If you intended to eat healthy all day long, and then you eat something you wish you didn’t. So you see something like I blew it. So therefore what’s the use? What’s the point? They may as well keep on eating. Or you see something and you tell yourself, well, it’s just a little bit.

[00:12:22] What difference does it make? So it’s really about noticing what you say to yourself. And if you Think to yourself, I know there’s ice cream in the freezer. I have to have the ice cream. I can’t not have the ice cream. I have to have it. If you know it’s there and you tell yourself like, I just hear it calling me, then what are you going to do?

[00:12:42] You’re going to go up and get the ice cream and chances are you’re going to feel a little agitated until you actually get up and eat that ice cream. But that’s about all about the thoughts in your head because clearly we know the ice cream doesn’t literally call us, but for a lot of people, it feels like it does.

[00:12:59] So when [00:13:00] I hear clients say, I feel out of control with food, it’s their thoughts that are actually out of control around food. 

[00:13:09] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So much great stuff in there, Lisa, for sure. I want to touch on what you were talking about around the talking to yourself and the things that you say to yourself and the way that you’re talking about those things, because I think that can make such a difference.

[00:13:25] And the idea that you shared about, you know, this is an indulgence and being mindful about enjoying it. I love that because then you really are paying attention and you’re, you’re in the moment and really savoring it. Right. Instead of it’s a scarcity thing where you, Oh my gosh, I’m never going to get to have this again.

[00:13:47] And so you just eat it all up and then you don’t even enjoy it because you weren’t paying attention. And I mean, that’s such a great, great point. I think so many of us who, you know, have battled with [00:14:00] this over time have experienced that. So what a great thing to remember. And you know, that, that way that you’re talking to yourself and the things that you are thinking about the foods that you want to be eating, excellent points.

[00:14:15] And I love that you’re talking about how you can enjoy these things without it going off the deep end, if you are in that mindfulness space around the food. I think that’s brilliant. I love it. So let’s talk about then how people are, you know, sabotaging the efforts that they’re making toward losing weight.

[00:14:43] What are some things that people, are are often doing? And I think, touching on the topics that we just. discussed, you know, that thinking that food is talking to us, it’s probably a little bit of some sabotage, but, but what else are you seeing? 

[00:14:57] Lisa Goldberg: Well, it’s really what you say. So [00:15:00] what people really want is to lose weight and feel better in their bodies.

[00:15:05] And the sabotage, a lot of it is based on the beliefs that you have. And the, the habits and behaviors that you’ve programmed into yourself over all of the years. So, for instance when somebody says, it’s just a little bit, what difference does it make? Does it not make a difference? When somebody says that they’re actually justifying why they should eat something, which tells me that they’re not physically hungry, they’re just giving themselves permission to eat something, they’re kind of making themselves, they’re okay and giving themselves permission to eat that thing by saying, it’s just only, or it’s just a little bit, what difference does it make, but does it not make a difference?

[00:15:52] if weight loss is really your goal. And so think about it. So how much and how often in seven days, if every single [00:16:00] day or a couple of times a day, you tell yourself, it’s just a little bit, what difference does it make? Do you not think at the end of seven days that all those extra bites makes a difference, right?

[00:16:13] So the perfectionist, if I’m not eating perfectly, I’ve messed up somehow, or I’m failing, or there’s something wrong with me. And so that’s when you start beating yourself up. And the brain, the dieters mindset goes to, well, I blew it. I may as well keep on going and then start again.

[00:16:37] But if you think about it, I always say the crazy happens in our heads. Does it make sense that eating, let’s say, two or three cookies, so maybe you’re having an extra two or three hundred calories is really going to sabotage your day versus then going to eat the whole bag and then some other stuff and maybe eating two or three thousand additional calories?[00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] Intellectually, so it really makes no sense. And when I do this work with people and we start talking about these things, and they’re telling me what they’re saying to themselves, because the only way I can help them reprogram what they’re thinking is to know what they’re thinking and then help them think a different thought, right?

[00:17:22] Because we all have the ability to think new thoughts or replace the thoughts that’s with thoughts that serve us versus thoughts that sabotage us, but the sabotage really tends to come from limiting beliefs and a lot of these beliefs like your conscious mind Wants to lose weight your subconscious mind puts the brakes on Your effort right so it really kind of gets in the way and the subconscious Beliefs are usually something like I’m not good enough, I don’t deserve, [00:18:00] I don’t matter. Because somewhere Along the way, as a child or teen, somebody gave you the message that you’re not good enough, and I’m going to give you an example, and I feel like it’ll help people kind of understand. Working with one of my coaching clients, one of the women was sharing that when she sat at the table when she was younger with her two brothers, her father would only ask them how their day was and how their work was.

[00:18:29] You know, and he would never address her and she started to believe, well, do I not matter? Maybe I don’t matter. And she started to internalize. It might not have been obviously what her father felt or thought, but that was her interpretation. So that became a subconscious belief about not being good enough.

[00:18:52] And at some point she started to turn to food for comfort. And self soothing [00:19:00] because she was feeling that badly about herself. So that’s the stuff that people actually don’t recognize because all they’re thinking about doing is changing the food that they eat versus really understanding what’s making them, you know, operate around food and eating that drives them to have the behaviors and the thoughts that they do, because your actions will always follow your thoughts and your thoughts create your feelings.

[00:19:29] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, good stuff. Lisa, such good stuff. I love what you were talking about. A little bit like little bit over seven days? Is it, you know, every day? Is it how much over this period of time? Because when you look at The Power of Habits. There’s a couple of different books that are fantastic for this that talk about how just that small change that or that small percentage that you’re doing over time adds up, right?

[00:19:58] And so when you’re looking at it on [00:20:00] just a minimal, like day basis, you’re not thinking It’s going to add up to something that it does by the end of the week. So that’s a great thing to remember. And then again, the foundation of really looking at what is going on underneath, what is your thoughts that, like you said, create your habits and what is happening there that really needs to be addressed to make a change overall. So I love that. Great stuff.

[00:20:30] Lisa Goldberg: If you think about it, if you’ve ever known anybody who lost weight and gained it back again, lost weight and gained it back again, there’s women are so frustrated.

[00:20:40] Because they don’t understand. They often think, I have a great job, I run a household, I can do all of these things, and I’m successful in so many areas of my life. Why can’t I figure this piece out? And it has nothing to do with how smart and intelligent you are. It has everything to [00:21:00] do with your old programming, and what you’ve wired into your brain.

[00:21:04] It’s so frustrating because on one Part intellectually, they know what they should or shouldn’t be doing, which is what I hear. I always say if I had a dollar for every person who said, I know what I should be doing. I’m just not doing it. And the reason why they’re not doing it is because the self sabotage gets in the way the old stuff, the subconscious blocks get in the way.

[00:21:25] So therein lies the frustration and the not being able to understand. Why is this so hard? 

[00:21:31] Desiree Stanley: Oh yeah, for sure. And I think that we have all at one point or another been that I know what I need to do. I’m just not doing it. I think that’s a super common thing that happens with a lot of people. I know what I need to be doing.

[00:21:46] I just am not doing it. And so changing those thoughts that, that reflect the habits that, you know, again, those things that have become like a record. [00:22:00] that’s been grooved, that’s been worn in and those thoughts and those words that you’re saying to yourself are just on repeat and, you know, putting a stop to that can make such a difference.

[00:22:11] It sounds like in, in really, truly moving forward to the direction you want to go. 

[00:22:16] Lisa Goldberg: Yeah, and you gave a great analogy, the grooves in a record, because the truth is, there’s something called neuroplasticity at the brain. And we, we have grooves in our brain for the habits that we do a habit is something we do without thinking, right, we kind of go on automatic pilot.

[00:22:30] So changing your behaviors and your thoughts. It’s about doing it often enough to form those new grooves in your brain for the new habit and behavior and the new way of thinking. So that was a great analogy. 

[00:22:46] Desiree Stanley: Yes. And that’s such a fascinating topic to the neuroplasticity. If listeners check it out, do some Google searches on that because that’s fantastic.

[00:22:58] And I think that. plays [00:23:00] such an important part in everything that we do in life and learning. And so there’s never a point when your brain stops learning and growing, as long as you continue to learn and grow and work on it. I love that. Well, let’s change gears a little bit and talk about your book.

[00:23:20] And I love the title. It’s a Food Fight Exclamation points Winning the Battle with Food and Eating to Achieve your Sustainable Weight Loss. And so tell us about that. How did you come up with that title? Because I think it’s clever. I love it. You know, food fight, you immediately think of food, you know, tossed at each other during cafeteria time when you’re in elementary school or maybe high school.

[00:23:45] So tell us about it. 

[00:23:46] Lisa Goldberg: Well, I mean, I chose the title because really the clients that I worked with, because it felt like a battle to them, they feel like food’s the enemy and they’re in a constant battle with food. That [00:24:00] battle happens in their mind and it’s the losing and the gaining.

[00:24:04] So I called it food fight because for them, that’s what it feels like. And it’s really about winning the battle with food and eating, because for those people who do believe that food is calling their name and eating, I often say that so many people struggle with their weight because they eat too much when they’re eating and they eat when they’re not hungry and a lot of the behaviors of people struggle with cleaning their plate, overfeeding their bodies.

[00:24:34] Not being able to not go up a second time to the buffet. Right? So there’s the battle with food and eating, even though inherently they know they’re good, they’re full, but part of they’re wiring is, but I paid for it. So, that’s why I titled the book because it feels like a battle and I gave them, you know, tools and [00:25:00] strategies and steps very similar to what we’re talking about here to achieve sustainable weight loss because you can lose weight and keep it off.

[00:25:10] It’s 100 percent possible. One, you have to believe that you can do it because so many people, because they’ve struggled and they’ve gained it back so many times. There’s a little part I know in so many people that that little voice whispers, you probably can’t do it anyway. So why even bother? Why even try again?

[00:25:29] Which keeps people from actually taking the path that they need to take to lose weight. But when you change your thinking, when you change your relationship with food, when you see food as just what it is, It’s just food. It doesn’t have the magical powers to make you happy even though you tell yourself in the moment It’s going to it doesn’t solve the problem.

[00:25:51] It doesn’t make you not lonely. It doesn’t make you not sad It doesn’t take the frustration away It actually I believe just fuels [00:26:00] those negative feelings even more because you’re eating that food emotionally and then you feel bad about yourself and then you’re not losing weight and then the cycle perpetuates 

[00:26:12] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. For sure. 

[00:26:14] Lisa Goldberg: That’s really what, you know, the basis of the book was about because people’s biggest struggle is that they don’t know what they should be doing. And I use the analogy, let’s just say when you started your career. Whoever was training you gave you all of the wrong information. How would you ever ever be able to expect to be successful in your career?

[00:26:41] Well, I feel like so many people who have gone on these restrictive diets or these quick fad diets or these cleanses have been given the quick fixes and the wrong information to achieve sustainable weight loss. They’ll achieve weight loss. [00:27:00] But not in a way that’s sustainable and there’s a difference.

[00:27:02] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love that. 

[00:27:04] Lisa Goldberg: Right. My focus with my clients is really about the sustainable part, giving them the tools, the way to eat, the strategies, how to change their thinking to make whatever weight they lose, whether it’s five pounds or 50 pounds. Sustainable. 

[00:27:23] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with us, Lisa.

[00:27:28] That’s that’s wonderful. I’ll include, of course, the, the link to the book in the show notes so the listeners can take a look at that. And I want to touch on just a couple of things that you’d mentioned, and that was cleaning your plate in entirety. And you know, the phrase clean plate Ranger comes to mind.

[00:27:47] And then of course at a buffet, going back and getting more because you feel like you’re paying so much money for it, that you better get your money’s worth. And so I think those are two huge things that happen for a lot of people. [00:28:00] And it’s trying to rewire the thinking around that, right.

[00:28:05] Because we don’t need to clean our plate. We can take what we need, but we don’t need to finish it all. And a lot of us grew up with the mentality of there’s not enough food to go around, or you may not have enough to eat another time. So you better eat it all now. And, or we’ve spent this much money on this buffet.

[00:28:26] We better eat all this food. So let’s talk about that for a minute. 

[00:28:31] Lisa Goldberg: Okay. Well, again, that’s the programming from being younger. Food is scarce. Like I work with a lot of clients that food was scarce when they were younger, whether they had a big family and they were afraid they weren’t going to get that fair share, or there just wasn’t enough money to have enough food.

[00:28:47] And so now when people have money, there’s several clients that I’ve coached along the way that had that situation. So now they overfeed themselves. Like I worked with one client where his [00:29:00] thought process was well, I could afford this. So I’m just going to have like the biggest steak and I’m going to eat it all.

[00:29:04] And I’m going to have the steak and the potato and this and that. And so I’m going to eat it all because I can. And so, of course, you’re gonna end up with an overfed, overweight body and some people don’t even recognize what they’re doing. I’ve worked with a client where she used to clean her plate, and we did a little exercise.

[00:29:24] I gave her some coaching on what to do the next time she went out for dinner, and she followed the steps. She left food on her plate, pushed the plate away, leaned back, created some space, and she heard herself think, but I paid for it. That’s when she actually made the connection that there’s a connection with money, probably because she remembers her father saying, money doesn’t grow on trees.

[00:29:47] And, you know, you have to finish what you’re eating because food is scarce or there’s children starving someplace in the world. Therefore you should finish it, or I worked hard for the money that bought that food. [00:30:00] So there’s the message, right? And so what’s the message that you got? There’s so many people that I work with that eat to please other people, or they don’t want to make somebody else feel uncomfortable.

[00:30:14] But think about it, how are you being kind to yourself and self loving to yourself if you overfeed your body when you’re full? But what you really want is to lose weight and feel better in your body. So think about the thinking. It’s like as we’re speaking about this logically, does that make sense?

[00:30:34] But in the moment when those thoughts are in your head, they feel like they make sense. They feel factual because you’ve been thinking that way for so long. What is it for you? And so when I talked earlier about part of my process and my framework is to create the awareness When do you tend to overeat?

[00:30:56] Let’s just say your spouse or partner cooked a [00:31:00] meal and you didn’t want to make them feel bad. You had some, you’re full, but they’re like, Oh, have more, have seconds. Rather than saying, no, I’m good. So you say yes to them. It’s kind of like saying no to yourself. And then what happens?

[00:31:13] You feel bad, a little guilt, regret, remorse, maybe a little shame for overfeeding your body to make somebody else happy. Think about that, where do you overeat, what was the messaging, or the message, or how did you maybe interpret a message that you got when you were younger, that’s now kind of carried with you through your life and you keep perpetuating the behavior.

[00:31:41] So if you’re thinking about, I’ve tried so many times to lose weight, I’ve lost it and I gain it back again. What’s the behaviors that you have that keeps you repeating the pattern? What do you say to yourself in those moments? That’s a lot of [00:32:00] what you really need to start thinking about, because typically what you’re telling yourself isn’t true.

[00:32:07] And if you’re listening to our discussion and hearing this, you’re probably thinking to yourself, well, she’s right. It doesn’t make sense, but in your head, it seems to make perfect sense. 

[00:32:20] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, no, for sure. That’s, that’s such a great point. It’s like that repeated message that you have had nearly your whole life.

[00:32:30] And so whatever that message may be. And so of course to you, it makes sense, but does it really? And does it have to make sense going forward, or can you change your thinking around that? And that’s such a great point. And I want to go back and talk a little bit about when you said that a lot of times we’ve got this voice that if we’re really quiet, we can hear that says, you know, I’m not good enough or I’ve tried before, I’m never going to be able to do it.

[00:32:59] You [00:33:00] know, it’s never worked for me before. And those kinds of thoughts that we may not realize we’re making to ourselves. And so what would you suggest that the listeners use to kind of tune into some of that thinking that may be happening? 

[00:33:15] Lisa Goldberg: So you have to, I call it raising the volume, you have to raise the volume on listening to your thoughts.

[00:33:22] Your brain believes what you tell it the most, right? Kind of like the whole thing with like manifesting and self fulfilling prophecy. If you truly say to yourself, I’ll never be able to, then most likely you’ll never be able to. So raise the volume. Listen to what you’re saying. It’s a really important part of my process because sometimes my clients will come to me and they’ll be like, Oh my God, I heard myself say this.

[00:33:50] They’ll be like, I couldn’t believe that I heard myself say that. Go ahead and eat it anyway. So they’ll just tell themselves something. [00:34:00] And so often they’re having this inner battle where they know they shouldn’t, but they do it anyway, because there’s a little part of the voice that’s saying, Nah, I’ll worry about it later.

[00:34:13] What difference does it make? You deserve it. And you will do what you tell yourself to do. You give yourself a directive. Your thoughts, the truth is, we don’t do anything at any point in our whole entire day that’s not preceded by a thought. So when you open your eyes and wake up in the morning, if you’re thinking about getting out of bed to go to the bathroom, you’re thinking about getting out of bed to go to the bathroom, and hence, so you do that.

[00:34:41] Everything you do is preceded by a thought, and some of that morning stuff for us is so routine and ritualistic, it’s the habit that we do without thinking. We probably do our morning routine the same way every day, and we don’t think we’re thinking about it, but [00:35:00] we are. So you will do whatever you tell yourself to do, but here’s…

[00:35:07] Part of it. You need to ask yourself better questions. So you need to question, is what I just thought, is it true and real? Is it a fact? And if it’s not a fact, how could you change that thought, so it actually is a true and real fact. So raise the volume. And if, if food and eating is the thing that you struggle with, then raise the volume every time you have a meal.

[00:35:34] Raise the volume every time you think about getting something to eat. The first question, and here’s a tool, the first question is, am I hungry? Am I thinking about food because I’m hungry? And if you could put your hands on your belly and know that this isn’t hunger, maybe it’s boredom, maybe it’s stress, maybe it’s some other feeling or emotion, do not eat.

[00:35:57] Find something else to do. [00:36:00] Because your brain just might need a distraction, but something you were thinking may have triggered the thought around food because that’s how your brain operates. You will begin to hear what you say and begin to understand why you do what you do. You’ll begin to understand it better once you start listening closely to your own thoughts.

[00:36:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, great stuff, Lisa. I love it. And, you know, I want to, uh, quote I think it was Henry Ford, who says, if you think you can, or you think you can’t, you’re right. 

[00:36:38] Lisa Goldberg: Yep, exactly. 

[00:36:40] Desiree Stanley: Okay, so this is it. If we think a thought about, I can’t do it. Then you’re going to prove yourself right.

[00:36:48] If you think a thought, I can do it, you’re going to prove yourself right. And so I think that’s the heart of what we’re talking about, is those thoughts that we’ve got going on and where are they leading us? And I [00:37:00] love how you just suggested putting your hand on your stomach. Are you feeling hungry?

[00:37:05] Truly. And if you’re not, what else are you thinking? What else is happening? Are you stressed? Are you bored? You know what other things are going on and then address it and determine if there’s a different course of action. Great stuff. 

[00:37:20] Lisa Goldberg: I always say this is a dance between your head where you think your heart where you feel and your belly where you actually feel your true physical hunger.

[00:37:27] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. No, good stuff. That was perfect. I love it. I love the idea because truly we are a whole human being, right? It’s. Our heart, our head, our heart, our gut, which, you know, we haven’t even touched on, but that plays a huge part in, the whole body system.

[00:37:45] And you can’t have one without the other. And so really you’ve got to look at the whole picture as well. So yeah, great stuff. Well, let’s kind of wrap up our conversation and we talked about your book. Thank you for sharing that, but I’d [00:38:00] love For you to share any other books or podcasts that you have found influential or beneficial that you’d like to share now with the listeners.

[00:38:08] Lisa Goldberg: Yeah, a book that I’m reading and I actually expressed to my clients that they, I think they should read it too. It’s Brene Brown, The Gifts of Imperfection. Let go of who you think you’re supposed to be and embrace who you are. It’s really just kind of connecting to yourself and being kind and compassionate with yourself.

[00:38:28] You went to mention it earlier of Atomic Habits, right? Because it’s really about changing the habits. That’s the hard part. People don’t know how to change the habits and or how to be consistent long enough to change the habit and hand. It takes more than 28 days. Trust me. It takes more than 28 days and a podcast that I’ve been listening to.

[00:38:50] Just recently, he, because it’s, it’s pretty new, but it’s somebody that I used to coach with and it’s called A Changed Mind. And so he [00:39:00] really talks about a lot of what I talk about in my coaching, the overcoming the limiting beliefs and your self talk and the self sabotage and what’s true and real because losing weight and keeping it off is all about changing your mind.

[00:39:16] You can’t change anything in your life without changing your mind about it first. 

[00:39:22] Desiree Stanley: Great recommendations. And yes, also the Atomic Habits, so many guests have shared that and it is one of my favorite books, but The Power of Habit is another good one as well that I have read and enjoyed. And there was another guest that just really Shared the change mine as you just did.

[00:39:40] So another great recommendation. So thank you for sharing those. And I’ll link all of that in the show notes, as well as the podcast that you suggested. And that way the listeners can find that easy as can be. Well, Lisa, before we close out, I would love for you to share with the listeners, if [00:40:00] they have questions, they want to reach out to you to get more information, just maybe follow along with what you’re doing.

[00:40:06] How would they be able to do that? 

[00:40:08] Lisa Goldberg: Well, my website is to get more information is LisaGoldbergNutrition.Com and to reach me directly Lisa@LisaGoldbergNutrition.Com on Instagram nutritionist Lisa Goldberg on Facebook. I’m nutritionist Lisa Goldberg, I have a private Facebook group called Right Mind Right Weight because it’s all about changing your mind so you can ask to join that as well.

[00:40:30] And if you Google my name, Lisa Goldberg nutrition or Lisa Goldberg nutritionist. You’ll find a whole bunch of other articles that I’ve been quoted in and, magazines and that sort of thing. 

[00:40:42] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Thank you for sharing that. And I’ll include all that as well for the listeners.

[00:40:47] So thank you again, Lisa. I have really enjoyed our conversation and you’ve just shared so much great information. I think that the listeners can really begin looking at these things in their life [00:41:00] immediately. And I thank you so much for your time and your knowledge and sharing that with us today.

[00:41:05] Thank you. 

[00:41:06] Lisa Goldberg: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure to be here with you. 

[00:41:08] Desiree Stanley: All right. We’ll talk more soon. 

[00:41:10] Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and empower you to achieve your goals. And thanks again for listening.

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POK_Erica Thomas Podcast_11_08_2023

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast, where we share illuminating stories and knowledge to inform, educate, inspire, and empower you in the areas of business, health, finance, philanthropy, art, and entrepreneurship, designed to help you achieve your goals. And now here is your host, Desiree Stanley.

[00:00:23] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Erica Thomas. Welcome to the show, Erica. I’m excited to have you here with us today. How are you? 

[00:00:36] Erica Thomas: Hi, Desiree. I’m doing awesome. I’m so glad to be part of this podcast and thank you so much for asking me to come aboard today.

[00:00:45] Desiree Stanley: Oh, wonderful. Thank you for that. It’s my honor to have you as a guest. Erica is the founder of Vita Nova Mother Daughter Coaching, and we’re going to get into what all of that means. But let’s start [00:01:00] with what was the inspiration for launching Vita Nova Mother Daughter Relationship Coaching and how did that all come to be?

[00:01:09] Erica Thomas: Really, my inspiration is my daughter, who’s 16 years old, and, you know, just, I remember finding out that I was going to have a daughter, and I was really excited, but I was also scared and it has to stem from my mother daughter history and my relationship with my mother.

[00:01:29] It’s just, it really kind of also stems from just my own mother daughter relationship with my mother. It was very complicated relationship and just over the years, I really found that it affected me in different ways. As a woman, how I saw myself as a woman how I navigated the world as a human being.

[00:01:52] And of course, as a woman you know, also my relationships. And, also in my, just 19 plus [00:02:00] years as working with women and teen girls, I also find that inevitably when they talk about just areas in their life where they feel stuck, it has to come down to their mothers, their relationship with their mothers, you know, and it varies in degrees.

[00:02:16] It could be just a little bit or it could be a lot. That’s basically just kind of in my own. With my own relationship with my daughter, I didn’t want her to suffer and go through the things that I did. So for me, I wanted to turn things around and in doing that, you know, just thinking about the generational change that I would create.

[00:02:38] And I also want to support women in creating that generational change as well. So whether it’s through motherhood, through mentorship, through friendship, etc. 

[00:02:47] Desiree Stanley: That’s excellent. So how long have you been coaching women on how to kind of, I’ll say, heal these relationships and even really the relationship with yourself [00:03:00] and how you’re moving forward in the world. 

[00:03:03] Erica Thomas: You know, so. I’ve been a therapist for over 19 years. I mostly worked with women. I really started niching in really in working with women, I would say about three years ago, just because it was just an area that I felt closely connected to. and, you know, Just an area that I was really passionate about.

[00:03:26] But I’ve, over the years I’ve just, I’ve worked with hundreds of women .

[00:03:31] Desiree Stanley: Well, that’s awesome. You touched on the idea of intergenerational. I guess we could say trauma or dysfunction. And so let’s dive into that a little bit and talk about kind of what that means. Those terms mean, and how that can kind of play out in your relationships and in your life.

[00:03:55] Erica Thomas: Hmm. Yeah. So, you know, the mother daughter relationship is an [00:04:00] extremely important relationship to a woman. Through our mothers, they’re our first example on what it is to be a woman, you know, so they create the foundation from which how we define ourselves as women, as professionals, as friends, mothers.

[00:04:18] And over time we do figure out, we do make our own way in the world as women, but it first starts with our mothers, you know, and when it starts with our mothers, we. Invoke a mother daughter history where you know, that’s filled with patterns that are passed down from mother to daughter generation after generation after generation.

[00:04:40] And even though the patterns are, you know, the patterns are persistent, they may look different, but they continue. Through and if we’re not careful as to what those patterns are and I’ll go into them right now so that so that you and your listeners can understand what those patterns are and they can, you know, kind of think about their own mother daughter [00:05:00] histories and figure out where they’re where those patterns are.

[00:05:04] Are for them and their mother daughter history. But yeah, it’s through these patterns that it’s really the root cause of mother daughter conflict. When I talk about these intergenerational patterns, I really talk about it from a model called the mother daughter attachment model, which was designed and it was created by a therapist named Rosjke Hasseldine and she created this model over her 30 years of working with mothers and daughters, finding out that there were certain patterns, regardless of culture that were passed down. And so it’s, for me to find out. And to learn about these patterns has really been enlightening, not only to figure out where, you know, kind of where I’ve gotten stuck in my life as a woman, but also to in talking with my mom, we’ve had different conversations about our own mother daughter relationship that’s made it productive.

[00:05:59] And not only [00:06:00] that, but in knowing which one of those patterns have, patterns, plural, because there are a few of them in mine I’ve been able to really pinpoint and, and hone in on those so that I don’t pass those down to my daughter. It ends with me. So, she goes on and she lives a life that, you know, she’s empowered and, she’s free to be herself.

[00:06:22] So yeah, these patterns are, are based out of really patriarchal social cultural norms, really that cause men and women to adopt certain behaviors or beliefs which we are taught that men and women should do, you know, and oftentimes what is the unfortunate thing about this is that these behaviors and beliefs really cause us to abandon real connection for connection with society, which creates pseudo connections.

[00:06:54] So as a boy, I’m not going to cry too much because that’s, people think[00:07:00] I’m a girl, you know, or if, a girl doesn’t care too much, it’s, it’s criticized it’s well, you should be caring for them and why are you not caring for them so and it’s really sad because also to these norms.

[00:07:13] really inflict shame and guilt if we’re not careful about these and how we should go about our lives and how we should create these connections and navigate our world. 

[00:07:22] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, this is truly a complex topic, right? Because there can be so many things that affect these relationships. And so, you know, you’ve shared a little bit about some of the cultural norms, socioeconomic cultural norms.

[00:07:39] But what was interesting is talking about the model that you described earlier and, and how that was cross cultural. And so do you want to expand on that a little bit and tell us a little bit more about some of what was found there? 

[00:07:53] Erica Thomas: Absolutely. So, you know, it is interesting because, and especially in today’s day and [00:08:00] age, when we work with our clients, we try to do it from a point, from a culturally competent point of view.

[00:08:07] Right. So we want to make sure that we are very sensitive to people’s cultures. We don’t want to, you know, impart. Our own things on them, and we want to make sure that they continue to live in their and be respectful of what their cultural beliefs are. That said, you know, it is interesting because these these norms are like I said, they’re just they’re a universal set of norms.

[00:08:31] They are colored by the culture. They are colored by the society in which they live, the ethnic culture or the society that they live in. But needless to say, when you peel them back, they look the same. And I’m going to go over them because I think, once I can explain them, and just for the sake of time, I won’t go into too much depth, but so your listeners can can have an idea and what those, those patterns are. So the first one is a [00:09:00] Culture of Female Service and again, these patterns are dysfunctional patterns that are passed down from mothers to daughters in their history.

[00:09:09] This is the idea that women are raised in a fashion where they have to care for people, you know, and starts from when we’re little girls, we’re given baby dolls to take care of right and and although the concept of nurturing and loving and It’s it’s imparted in having a baby doll it also from the very get go We’re taught to care to care for somebody right and then eventually if we’re not careful that culture of female service can you are held hostage by it. In other words, you know, and you’re guilted into it. Well, you know, you should be caring for so and so. Why are you not caring for so and so? And eventually too, what happens is we’re not careful. It turns into excessive caregiving where [00:10:00] then women will find people things, pets to care for.

[00:10:08] if They don’t have enough, they will continue to find things, people to care for. So it, creates them in, you know, a hostage situation. So, the next one is Emotional Silencing and Neglect. And this one I think is a very, it’s a very prevalent pattern in women. And it’s really in the name.

[00:10:31] We silence ourselves for the sake of being a good girl, we neglect ourselves for the sake of being a good girl for not rocking the boat for not being too high maintenance for not, you know, dare I say, if you’re too vociferous, you, you’re a bitch, you know, you’re too strong.

[00:10:52] So here, the idea is okay. I can’t say this because this is going to create trouble. [00:11:00] Okay, fine. And what’s interesting is that with women, it’s actually validated, and I think about my culture, I think about, especially motherhood. And when you think about, the Hispanic culture, it’s, you know, the amount of neglect that you give into in motherhood.

[00:11:20] You get that much more validation. It ends up being a thing where it’s rewarded. Oh, if I neglect myself enough, that means I’m a good mom. Right. And I’ve heard this said before, especially with my, the girls, the teen girls that I work with, they talk about how, the mothers of their boyfriends will say, Oh my gosh, I just really love you. You know, you’re so quiet and you don’t cause a lot of trouble. Whereas, they’ll talk about the previous girlfriend and they’ll say, Oh, she was just too loud. And it’s sad because the girls that I work with.

[00:11:59] They [00:12:00] want to say something, they want to use their voice, but because they’re complimented for their quiet nature, in a way it’s rewarding. So it just becomes this so just. Destructive, but rewarding sort of thing. It’s, it’s insane. Yeah. 

[00:12:19] Desiree Stanley: Well, thank you for sharing those two with us right now. We can certainly, you know, carry on and you can share more, but I just want to say that those already that the two that you have shared with us. 100%. Like I have felt both of those things. And you know, that being responsible for other people and nurturing to other people and caring for other people or pets or, whatever. And then also, not speaking out. And, and being, like you said, rewarded for, letting things go, not rocking the boat, just, you know, keeping it easy, going with the flow for sure, you know, I think [00:13:00] I can speak for a lot of people who have gone through that a lot of women who’ve gone through that for sure.

[00:13:06] So. Yeah. 

[00:13:07] Erica Thomas: Yeah. You know, I, I think about so there’s a, there’s a quote from, from Eleanor Roosevelt and it goes something like,. It’s good. Women. Rarely make history. Good girls rarely make history, right?

[00:13:23] Something like that. But you know, and you think about the day and age in which she was around right in the 20s, 30s and 40s. And I mean, you think about emotional silencing, right? You know, if you used your voice, if you had something to say, you were a bad girl, right? So in essence, she was saying, you know, bad girls are the ones that make history, but are they really bad girls?

[00:13:47] Or are they just women that really want to use their voices? No, they’re, they’re exactly that. They’re not bad girls. So, but it’s so sad that they were considered bad girls. 

[00:13:56] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and what’s kind of sad is the fact that we’re how [00:14:00] many decades later, and that’s still happening, right? We’re still taught to silence our voices.

[00:14:09] It’s just really sad that we’re so far from that in terms of years, but still so close to being in that same boat. 

[00:14:17] Erica Thomas: I agree. I mean, I work with some of the most amazing women that have just, they’re so strong and independent in some ways, right? And that’s what they view themselves at, where I’m strong and independent and I can make my own way.

[00:14:34] And then when we talk about using their voice, you know, they come in here because there is a part of them. There’s that internal conflict of, I am so proud that I have made my way in this world, but It’s still hard for me to raise my hand in a room full of men, or it’s really hard to really say what I want to say, or people say I come on too strong.

[00:14:58] And [00:15:00] so really working with them and teaching them that they can still use their voice and that using their voice is not a bad thing. So, but yeah, it’s in today’s day and age where it’s not the twenties, thirties and forties, but in some ways we we kind of are with that. It’s kind of sad. 

[00:15:19] Desiree Stanley: It is. Well, if you’d like to share another one or two, you know, kind of things where we could sort of see that happening please go ahead and then we can talk a little bit about how we can start once we’re recognizing that, how we can start to make changes.

[00:15:35] Erica Thomas: Absolutely. I’ll go over a couple more and then I’ll go from there, but so the next one that I see a lot is, is lost women, the pattern, the generational pattern of lost women. This is where a woman gets so enthralled in their role, whether it’s their profession or maybe motherhood, especially see with motherhood that they don’t see themselves as anything [00:16:00] else, right? So and when you have the, you have a mother who is a lost woman, say she’s lost in her motherhood and she has a daughter who wants to go on and do something else and, you know, go live the adventure, go whatever it is. But the mother says no, this is what you’re expected to do.

[00:16:20] Or maybe the daughter is she’s a mother too. And the mother, you know, it criticizes her for going to the spa for a couple of hours and leaving the children with the babysitter because, you know, heaven forbid, you can’t leave the kids so that you can go relax.

[00:16:34] So, getting so enthralled in that. These patterns just really inflict a lot of shame and guilt, and it’s no wonder why women carry that so much in their lives. And then the other one I will talk about is maternal jealousy. So I think this is an interesting one where, it’s in the name where the mother’s See their daughters grow up to be what they want it to be and [00:17:00] they become jealous of them what’s interesting to me though, is that this becomes a It’s really a form of grief from the mom because it’s really she’s grieving the loss of You know, of dreams and goals that she had for her life, but for whatever reason, life just got in the way.

[00:17:21] And she was never able to get through that. And it’s, it’s really a painful thing for the mom because I, it’s, it’s in a way she’s proud of her daughter. You know, it’s like, yeah, girl, you did it. Yes. But at the same time, it’s like, God, I wish I would have done that. And sometimes that jealousy takes over and the mom cannot be super proud of her daughter the way her daughter wants her to be.

[00:17:46] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, again, two really great points. And I think that many of us can you know, appreciate that having either experienced it or, you know, been a part of it in some way. And [00:18:00] I can see how that. Jealousy could really be hidden grief, right? Like you said, it’s, they want to be happy for what their daughter is doing and, you know, or has succeeded in doing, but they’re grieving the fact that they didn’t have that chance or they didn’t take that chance maybe.

[00:18:22] I can totally see how that would be the case. And, and from someone who is now at a point where my youngest has gone off to college, you know, I’m in a transition period recognizing that my children are off and doing what they’re wanting to do. And now I have an opportunity to do. Maybe what I put on hold for those child rearing years.

[00:18:47] And, you know, I have the luxury and the opportunity to do that. And I know not everyone does. So I think that recognizing these things that you’re describing and then. Like we mentioned [00:19:00] earlier, now, how do we work on healing those things within ourself and in that relationship with our mothers or our daughters?

[00:19:10] Erica Thomas: Right. Right. I think really the first thing is recognizing, really looking at your mother, just your own mother, daughter history and really going back three generations with, with you as the daughter. And then going back to your grandmother and seeing what, what the patterns are that are passed down from mother to daughter and you know, it’s really amazing because if you really look if you really look, the patterns are passed out, they’ll look differently, and there are some others like my mother, I think she, she was brought up in just some really, really, it was a tough household, you know, she was subjected to emotional and physical abuse and she was, you know, she was put in charge of [00:20:00] domestic duties way too early. And if you just stop and just look at that and you see her relationship with her mother.

[00:20:08] It’s really easy to blame her mother. That would be my grandmother and say, well, what is, what was she thinking? Wow. She’s a terrible woman. And why is she doing that? So I remember having a conversation with my mom and I thought this was a really healing thing. And when I talk about the mother daughter history, it was, it’s transformative because she was able to share with me really just the, the terrible things that my grandmother went through and thinking about her treatment of my mother right, if you just look at that as face value, you think, wow, she’s a horrible woman. She’s heartless. And how could she do that? And, and unfortunately we have these attachment models that do create this blame in the mother.

[00:20:55] Like just, they’re so easy to blame on the mother. But if you look back, my [00:21:00] grandmother was subjected to a lot of abuse, domestic violence, you know, and it’s. So when you look at those patterns and they’re passed down, my mother did a wonderful job turning those things around. She was very intentional about changing that and breaking that cycle of abuse.

[00:21:19] So I did not necessarily get the same treatment in that she did. Right. That’s so that said, she was only equipped with certain tools going into motherhood that, you know, really, she then used to mother me and my sister. I have a sister who’s three years younger than I am. So when you, when you look at that, my mom was. She was delighted to be a mom. She was so excited to be a mom. And I really don’t think moms necessarily go into motherhood thinking, I’m gonna, I’m gonna hurt my daughter, I’m gonna hurt my child. Right. So, what happens is [00:22:00] they’re only You know, if they’re only carrying a certain amount of tools, some can have more tools and others, depending on what their blueprint is but if you are limited in your toolbox, that’s what you have to use. So, you know, that’s why it’s important to understand really kind of the mother daughter history, because it also takes away the mother blaming from it..

[00:22:23] Desiree Stanley: Those are some really great points that you brought up and not just looking at the face value of this one generational interaction, right?

[00:22:33] Looking back two or three, even if possible to see what was going on and then getting the full picture like you, you just described is so vital to understand what was happening. What did they go through? And like you said, you’ve only got So much in your toolbox that you can draw on to help you, you know, move forward in your relationships with your [00:23:00] children, your daughter, the people in the world.

[00:23:03] And so I think that’s a super important point to, to think about and not just looking back at just what your mother did. 

[00:23:11] Erica Thomas: Exactly right. Exactly right. I think, I think, you know, once we’re able to look at it from that lens, we’re able to see our mothers with a little bit more empathy and compassion. Now it doesn’t, you know, the hurt that they cause us, I’m not saying it’s an excuse.

[00:23:27] And certainly I think they’re right. You know, a definite important healing point in a mother daughter relationship is for the mother to acknowledge that hurt and take responsibility and accountability for that hurt. But it does lend itself to really see mom, this person that may have hurt you from a different lens and knowing, wow, she was, she had these tools.

[00:23:53] And this is what she used with me and in mothering me and, you know, some of it worked, [00:24:00] some of it didn’t at all. And so it’s just, for me, it was, it was transformative. I was able to see my mom as a woman. You know, I kind of take the role of mom away, to peel that lens back, you know, she’ll always be my mom, but I’m able to see her more as a woman.

[00:24:18] And I think that’s what also helps me lend compassion and empathy to her. So, 

[00:24:25] yeah. 

[00:24:25] Desiree Stanley: Excellent point for sure. So then let’s talk about maybe some specific things that someone can do to maybe begin healing that relationship, obviously, you know, like we just discussed having some empathy and some compassion for what they went through is going to be vital in helping to heal.

[00:24:47] But what else is there maybe that we can draw on to help help with 

[00:24:52] the with 

[00:24:53] healing the relationship and then understanding, you know, maybe what was going on so that you then don’t carry [00:25:00] that forward. 

[00:25:00] Erica Thomas: Right. Okay. So, yeah, I think, like I said before, I think it’s really understanding taking a deep dive into your mother daughter history and then taking those patterns. And thinking about, okay, how did this affect my relationship with my mother? Right. And not only that, but these patterns inevitably they also infiltrate in other relationships. They infiltrate in relationships with other women, you know, whether it’s we, as women, are mentors to other women or to our friendships.

[00:25:33] Our relationship with men as well. So you know, one thing about the mother daughter history is thinking about the relationship with men in that history did. You have men. Did your mother have men? Did your, did your grandmother have men in their lives? Whether, you know, as their partner, husband, father, grandfather, in their lives that really [00:26:00] inquired out to them, their needs, make them a priority, ask them, how was your day?

[00:26:05] What do you need? And you know, that infiltrates in our relationships with men too. So, so really looking at that and kind of taking a deep dive into that. And I would say the next step is really finding your healer of choice. And talking through it, depending on what level of hurt came from that and yeah, it’s healing from it.

[00:26:30] And you know, another thing too, I think is as a woman does their inner work and working through some of these hurts in their mother daughter history is also thinking about how giving themselves permission to define their own doors. And what I mean by that is I also, it’s also known as boundaries.

[00:26:50] I like the term defining your own doors because I think it’s just a better visual and boundaries sometimes invokes this very rigid,[00:27:00] drawing a line in the sand. And, you know, when you’re defining your own doors, you can. Figure out where do you want that placement in your room for that door, what kind of door do you want, do you want one that’s solid or do you want to see through , but it’s basically you are defining where you are placing your doors and what door you want and, um, so giving ourselves permission to do that because we don’t do that going back to culture female service, We’re always caring for everybody else because that’s what’s rewarded, and it’s easy to breach our own boundaries. . 

[00:27:34] Desiree Stanley: And you know, I love that visual that you just shared. I think that’s a great way to think about it and, and visualize it really is, do I want a solid door? Do I want double French doors? Do I want glass doors? Do I want a sliding door? You know, like how permeable is this, if you will, and how solid is this?

[00:27:53] So, you know, how important is this boundary or this door to me in [00:28:00] the relationship that I’m having with these people? And I think that that’s a great way to think about it and, and conceptualize it for sure. 

[00:28:08] Erica Thomas: It is. Yeah. Thanks. 

[00:28:10] Desiree Stanley: Well, so I want to ask you let me see how the, I want to word this. Since we’re speaking about these doors, How is this relationship that you’re having this pattern that you’ve had with your mother now also affecting and you touched a little bit on, you know, the men in your life or some female friends or people that you might be mentoring, but how are those things going to be affecting those types of relationships?

[00:28:38] Erica Thomas: Yeah, I think that as I took a deep dive into my own mother daughter history, I was really able to see there were really the, the most prevalent ones for me were the culture of female service, emotional silencing and neglect and lost women. And, so I think, you know, really for me, it [00:29:00] was really looking at those and realizing that I was not coming into my relationships including my marriage at one point as my genuine self, because I didn’t want to upset anybody. I was afraid of rejection. I, you know, there’s, I wanted to say things, but I knew they would rock the boat in some of those relationships.

[00:29:26] You know, particularly with family. Luckily, I have an amazing husband who always encourages me to use my voice. So it was more so me being able to be okay with me using my voice and understanding that. If we’re able to bring ourselves, our full selves, into a relationship, our authentic selves, that’s where the growth is.

[00:29:48] If we prevent ourselves from showing up as our full selves, we’re not going to grow into relationships the way we want to. And our partners, our friends, our family, are not going to see us as our true [00:30:00] selves. So really, I think that’s the healing, I think that for me, that’s really the part that I, I had to, I had to get through it kind of every once in a while pops up as well, so there was a situation recently where I was handling something about the AC and you know, my husband is, he’s a busy guy and he knows that it’s a partnership, right?

[00:30:24] So there was a circumstance where it was, it was quite a mess of a situation and I was handling it all because he was busy and I didn’t want to bother him. He had enough on his plate and he’s like, why, why are you protecting me from this? You know, we need to do this together, but for me, I was just, I was thinking I was just making it easy for him and because he’s a busy guy and I mean, I’m busy too, right?

[00:30:51] I’m thinking about, wait a minute. It’s not like I don’t have anything to do either, but here I am like breaking my back because I feel like I got to protect [00:31:00] him or don’t want to rock the boat in some way. Again, it’s so ingrained. So, you know, and I’ll just honestly say that, yeah, it’s just the thing that, yeah.

[00:31:09] So pops up for me every once in a while, even after doing my own inner work with all this.

[00:31:15] Desiree Stanley: I can totally see how that. For myself, even, you know, the he’s busy. He’s got a lot on his plate. Let me just handle this. And, but I’m overwhelmed and I don’t really know how to handle this situation, but, you know, I don’t want to dump it on him.

[00:31:30] I can totally relate to that. And I’m sure that the listeners have experienced that, you know, themselves for sure. I could see that. But so maybe is there. Some strategies that you could suggest that can help people work through those things. And I know it’s going to be, a matter of maybe choosing to work with a counselor or a therapist or some, a coach, someone who can maybe help, you know, provide more deeper [00:32:00] tools.

[00:32:00] But is there anything that you can suggest that the listeners can, you know, try to maybe add to their, their toolkit? 

[00:32:08] Erica Thomas: Okay, absolutely. I think in addition to, you know, being okay with. Getting that place where you’re okay with exercising your own boundaries. Right. Another thing I think is, the concept of know thyself and over the years, this has taken on different meanings.

[00:32:26] But when I think about know thyself, I think about know who you are as a person. And what I mean when I say that is, I think sometimes we, we are not okay with accepting our limitations. you know, Oh no, I could do more. I could do more when we know in fact that, no, we cannot do more. Right.

[00:32:50] But it’s, I can do it. I can do it. Sure. It comes in the form of people pleasing. Right. I could do it. I could do it. But knowing really, and understanding, and being okay [00:33:00] with the fact that we do have limitations. We are human beings, and inherently we are going to have limitations. Some of those, yes, we can work on, but some of them, it does take a certain sense of maturity to say, you know what, this is all I can give, and being okay with that.

[00:33:17] Right. Another one I would say is being clear with your values and you know, the more and more I work with my clients, the more and more I realized that that’s something that we really don’t, we’re not clear on, if I were, when I asked my clients, what are your values? Number one, they’re like, what are values?

[00:33:40] It’s like, how can I define values? What is that? Right? So right there, they don’t have a clear set of values. So values basically is a certain set of beliefs or behavior or something that you hold sacred in your life. So a value would be an example of that would be wisdom,[00:34:00] trust, independence, family, God Those are values.

[00:34:06] There’s a whole bunch of, I mean, there’s like tons of values out there. And you know, your listeners can look them up, but I think being really clear with what your values are. So your values can change over time. But one thing about values is when things get really muddled in life, because kind of frequently they do, at least they do for me.

[00:34:28] It really helps me to go back to my list and I actually have a list here in the back of my chair and I also have it posted in my bathroom that I look at every day and it helps set the tone for the day. Okay, these are my values helps me with my decision making with my problem solving. It helps me with my boundaries, you know, and it just other in other ways as well.

[00:34:56] So when I feel lost, I look to my [00:35:00] values, what is important to me in this situation, and the people we choose to have in our inner circle, which is an extremely important thing as well. 

[00:35:08] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. And you’re right, the values, it’s like that foundational thing that is so important to every decision that we make.

[00:35:19] Right. It affects the decisions that we make, because those are the things that we’re not going to compromise on. , those are the foundational things in, in what everything that we do going throughout the life that we’re living. So, yeah, 100%. 

[00:35:36] Erica Thomas: Absolutely. And another one I would say too is. Giving yourself self compassion and self acceptance, really I think we, many of us live with a huge inner critic and you know, just the idea that whenever we’re in an emotional state, we, we meet ourselves with a logical state and, you know, we’re sad [00:36:00] and so we go logically to, well, it’s not going to be like this all the time.

[00:36:04] Okay. There’s no reason to be sad. And although in a way that is okay. You know that there is a positive thinking to that you have to meet your emotion with emotion first Saying so and and the way you do that is if you’re sad name your feelings. I’m sad, right? Wow, this makes me sad.

[00:36:25] I feel sad right and and I I would say just You know, just doing that and honoring your feelings before you go to that logical place. Once you are able to do that, then you can say, well, you know what, this is only temporary. I will be okay, but we have to go through that emotional caretaking first before we go into that logical step that moves us forward.

[00:36:49] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love that. That is such a great point because I see that, you know, Emotional reaction to something that’s happening and immediately [00:37:00] trying to discount it or explain it away or make some kind of logical sense out of it. And, yes, we need that, too, but like you said, we’ve got to address the root of it and the emotion that we’re feeling, and I’m not sure if you’re familiar with, brene Brown’s book, Atlas of the Heart. And I read that fantastic book, highly, highly recommend it because she talks about going through and naming all of these emotions. And you know, when you can do that, you can recognize when you’re experiencing it. And then. Heal and move forward. And so I highly recommend that.

[00:37:40] And so to your point, you’ve got to be able to acknowledge what it is that you’re feeling and accept and say that it’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with feeling that way. And then get to the logical, maybe problem solving side of it. Right. 

[00:37:57] Erica Thomas: Exactly, exactly. And I would say [00:38:00] another one too is just learning how to navigate conflict in a way that creates emotional safety.

[00:38:08] And, and what I mean by that is a little bit more of, of expounding on that part of meeting emotion with emotion, right? Instead of emotion with logic. So if a person is really, really like angry at you, right? And, and it could be your mother, your daughter, right? If they’re really mad at you, they’re really angry you.

[00:38:30] Wow. I can see you’re really angry. You know, what did I do that made you angry? And how can I, what can I do differently? Right? And then so, so meeting them and validating that emotion, and understanding that each and every one of us has what we call an emotional reality which is really a subjective reality of the situation.

[00:38:55] One is not right over the other, and I think often we fight to be right, you [00:39:00] know, we try to prove each other wrong, and we try to treat our relationship like in a courtroom, and it never goes well, and what happens, you know, oftentimes what happens is you go into the emotional silencing and neglect, the person that’s arguing to be right, you know, the other person, the receiving end will say, all right, fine, you’re right.

[00:39:21] But I promise you about 99 percent of the time, you’ve only silenced them and you’ve only made the relationship worse. And what they’re doing is they’re only just trying to exit the interaction because it’s just too painful and fine. I don’t want to have to do any more of this and, and they end it.

[00:39:41] And the person who’s left, they’re like, yeah, you see, I was right. They don’t realize that they just affected the connection. 

[00:39:49] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. And I can see that how you’re communicating and that shut down when somebody is just trying to be right. And, you know, prove [00:40:00] that their point is right and maybe invalidate what it is that you’re saying.

[00:40:04] You can shut down and just say, I’m, I’m done with this. I can’t handle this. You’re just quiet. You’ve shut down, you’re not going to continue the conversation. It’s not going to get worked out and we’ll probably cause trouble later down the line, if we’re honest, because that’s, you know, gets bottled up and then, you know, comes out later.

[00:40:25] Erica Thomas: Right. Exactly. And then it happens a lot with mothers and daughters. I see it all the time, you know, so it invokes that emotional silencing and neglect pattern. 

[00:40:33] Desiree Stanley: Right. So, so going back to your point about how important that communication is, and recognizing what the emotion that other person is having and acknowledging that, and then trying to work through that in a compassionate way, you know, so that you can hopefully heal in the moment and move forward. I think that’s, yeah, amazing. 

[00:40:56] Erica Thomas: Absolutely. Yeah, I have found that to be the most healing [00:41:00] when we can meet the person in a place where you can say you’re saying to them in so many words, I hear you, I see you.

[00:41:09] And when a person hears that from them. I hear you. I see you. They’re also hearing. I love you. So yeah. And that’s, that’s really the beauty of emotional safety. 

[00:41:23] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh, Erica. Thank you so much for, for sharing all of this information with us. It’s just been wonderful. You know, I always like to ask my guests.

[00:41:34] If there’s any books or podcasts that they like to suggest for the listeners, something that you think has been beneficial I’d love to have you share something now. 

[00:41:44] Erica Thomas: I have several books. So I think a couple of these have just been, you know, have been good for me as a professional.

[00:41:52] In my own professional development, but I also have been able to use these with my clients, including my mother daughter pairs. 1 of them has been[00:42:00] Emotional Agility by Susan David. Dr. Susan David love that book. So it, just teaches a lot about how to acquire that psychological flexibility somewhat what the Atlas of the heart also teaches.

[00:42:14] This is another version, I really love the way she, she talks about that and how to. aNd it’s a way where you can start showing up for yourself so that you can grow and move past and become a better version of yourself. So, another one is the Mother Daughter Puzzle by Rosjke Hasseldine.

[00:42:32] So that’s a great book. It also goes more into the other patterns I know we didn’t have time to talk about today, but it’s just, it’s, it’s a really great book that I know for me, I use a lot. So another one is Tea and Cake with Demons by Adriana Limbach. And you know, the title is so interesting, but, but has nothing to do necessarily with the demons we think about.

[00:42:59] It’s more so with our [00:43:00] inner inner demons and thinking about how we can, how we can look at them in a different way so that we can start leading ourselves. It’s a Buddhist approach. She’s, she applies a Buddhist approach. I’m not a Buddhist necessarily, but I do appreciate some of the tenets of Buddhism.

[00:43:22] And another book professionally I loved was The Gift of Therapy by Irvin Yalom, Dr. Irvin Yalom, and he’s just a legend in our field and It’s a very anecdotal book that shares little lessons that he learned as a practitioner over the, you know, 60 plus years that he’s been, he’s been in practice.

[00:43:46] And some of the things that we hold as sometimes when you’re a young therapist coming out of grad school and you’re taught these things. And, you know, one thing I love about this book, it really teaches [00:44:00] about. Okay. Yes. These things are important, but focus on the human. Right. And so that’s, it’s a, it’s a great book.

[00:44:09] And then another one is Daring Greatly by Brene Brown. Just the concept of vulnerability for me is, is huge. Thinking about my own mother daughter history and. You know, thinking about how I show up with clients, how I show up as a partner, as a spouse, how I show up as a friend, as a mother for me, that has been transformational you know, just having that vulnerability with in connections is, is huge.

[00:44:38] Desiree Stanley: Oh gosh. Wonderful. Erica, thank you so much for those recommendations. It sounds like some. Excellent works to take a look at and I’ll include all of the, the titles and authors in the show notes so that the listeners can easily find those because fantastic suggestions and I for sure I’m going to look at some of those myself.

[00:44:59] [00:45:00] Is there any podcasts that you like to listen to that you would like to share. 

[00:45:04] Erica Thomas: The podcasts, I’ve listened to, I think the most has been Unlocking Us with Brene Brown. I just really like the the variety of topics that she has and you know, just about everything.

[00:45:16] When you asked me on your show, I did start listening to your podcast. Desiree. And I really do appreciate just how you are geared towards women and just teaching women just on all sorts of things, you know, pockets of knowledge. I think is a great topic.

[00:45:35] Cause it’s just like, it’s almost like a toolbox, right? You’re, you’re helping women, you build up their toolbox, and so I, I really appreciated that one and yeah, so thank you. 

[00:45:48] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Well, thank you for that. I appreciate that compliment. And, and yes, absolutely. It is really about empowering and inspiring and educating the [00:46:00] listener in all of these areas. And like you said, Maybe developing some tools that they can use in their life.

[00:46:07] Absolutely. That’s the point. So thank you for that. Lastly though, I would like you to share where people can find you, learn more about your coaching and also, you know, just follow along in your journey and what you’re doing. If you’d like to go ahead and share that now with the listeners, that’d be great.

[00:46:26] Erica Thomas: So they can go to my website they can also email me if they’d like to reach out to me at erica, E R I C A at vitanovamotherdaughtercoaching. com. I’m also predominantly on LinkedIn under my name, so Erica Thomas and you’ll see I, I post quite a bit there as well.

[00:46:47] I do also have a Facebook page should be to Nova counseling and be to Nova mother, daughter coaching. 

[00:46:53] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Thank you for sharing those. And I’ll include all of that information in the show notes as well for, [00:47:00] you know, easy access for the listener and Erica again, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this topic, which is so.

[00:47:10] I want to say it’s kind of, it’s vast, right? And we have, and we have just touched on a tiny little aspect of it, but I think what you shared a lot of listeners can truly appreciate and feel some kind of connection to others. Knowing that they’re not alone in and having experienced some of these things and maybe a little bit of some tools to help work through it and maybe heal some them themselves and their relationships.

[00:47:37] So thank you again for your time and your knowledge and sharing that with us. 

[00:47:42] Erica Thomas: Thank you, Desiree, for having me. It was an honor. Thank you. 

[00:47:45] Desiree Stanley: We’ll talk more soon. 

[00:47:47] Erica Thomas: Yes, ma’am. Thank you. 

[00:47:48] Thanks for joining us this week on the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. Be sure to join us again next week for more great information designed to educate, inspire, and [00:48:00] empower you to achieve your goals. And thanks again for listening.

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POK_Emily Aborn Podcast_10_11_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Emily Aborn. Welcome to the show, Emily. I’m delighted to have you on. How are you today? 

[00:00:12] Emily Aborn: Thanks Desiree. I’m delighted to be here and I am so fabulous today. So thanks for asking. 

[00:00:19] Desiree Stanley: I love it. I love to hear when people are doing exceptionally well.

[00:00:24] You know, we always say like, Oh, I’m fine. I’m, I’m doing good or whatever, but I love that you just jump right in and said, you’re fabulous. Emily is on the show today to talk a little bit about some really great topics. Visibility and what that means versus what it doesn’t mean.

[00:00:41] Collaboration in terms of work environment. And I think we can talk a little bit about in a personal way as well. And Emily, is the founder of Emily Aborn Consulting. So I just really want to know, first of all, how did that come to be? What was the [00:01:00] inspiration behind launching Emily Aborn Consulting.

[00:01:04] Emily Aborn: How do you feel about doing four hour podcast episodes? I’m sure everybody says that. All right. I’m going to give you like the super fast track. So my husband and I opened a retail shop in 2014 and we were in kind of like a little bit of a weird business. We sold non toxic bedding and home products, mattresses.

[00:01:23] Things like that. So we decided in about 2018, that we were going to shift out of that business, just based on like the way the market was going and where we were both at, like with our professional and personal journey. So I had to decide what was next. And I worked with a mentor at the time.

[00:01:42] Who basically had me list out everything that I loved doing in my current business and everything that I didn’t love doing in my current business and a lot of it came down to like, I don’t like being there, but I like doing all the business owner things. So I started doing [00:02:00] those business owner things for a lot.

[00:02:02] and lots of other people. And, you know, as it happens with a lot of entrepreneurs, it just kind of was like a slow process of learning what I liked, what I didn’t like, how I wanted to niche down my business. And one day, I mean, literally it was just like, I woke up one day and I was like, Oh, my goodness gracious.

[00:02:20] It has been content and writing. Like that’s the common thread since I was six years old. I mean, I had like the town newspaper I was handwriting at age six. So in that it was really about like creating content that brings people together, that like creates an interest and engagement, something around the content, not just content for content sake.

[00:02:45] But really having like a purpose behind it. So that’s the super long story made super short. 

[00:02:52] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s cute. I love that you shared about how writing has kind of been a theme for you for your your whole life, just [00:03:00] even as a child. So that’s Fantastic. We’re not all lucky enough to know that, you know, from an early age, that that’s something that we enjoy doing, but I love that you shared that.

[00:03:09] And so then it sounds like you did really make kind of a big transition from, you know, physical store selling physical products and really switched into more of digital content. And so do you work specifically with other business owners then in helping them create the content that they’re sharing or how does that work? Exactly. 

[00:03:33] Emily Aborn: I write for my clients, I do like done for you, which is like website copy blogs, social media, to some extent, all with like an SEO perspective, if that’s their goal, if that’s part of their goal. So, you know, really trying to get you to make money while you’re sleeping. Like, I believe that leads come to our website when we’re resting and they end up in our inbox the next morning. And there you go with a good SEO strategy in place. [00:04:00] So a lot of it is website, copy blogs and things like that. But then I also do like done with you is kind of how I would describe it, where it’s like, let’s talk through your strategy and what’s working and what’s not working.

[00:04:10] And then tons of podcasts and speaking like this, cause I just really, I love helping to educate people on how to get their message out in like a clear, cohesive way. And make that connection with their ideal client, if you will. 

[00:04:26] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh, that’s awesome. I love it. And just to clarify, cause maybe not everybody that’s listening understands what SEO stands for.

[00:04:34] So you want to talk about that for just a second. 

[00:04:38] Emily Aborn: Sure. Yeah. So search engine optimization and I wouldn’t let your head spin about it because it’s changing every single day anyway. And it’s, like, when was the best time to SEO your website 15 years ago? So I’m just kind of we’re, working on the strategies and best practices for people.

[00:04:56] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for elaborating on that a little bit so that [00:05:00] those who maybe don’t quite know that side of it, understand a little bit better. And so then let’s talk about. What I kind of hinted at at the beginning and that’s visibility, what that means and what it doesn’t mean and talk about that a little bit more if you would.

[00:05:17] Emily Aborn: Yeah. I think a lot of times when we think of visibility, we think about getting seen, right? Like it’s like that billboard on the side of the road. Like, look at me, look at me, everybody look at me. And then people will start just running to our businesses and flocking to us. And I like to think of visibility as I do with a lot of things with content, with marketing, but visibility specifically, it’s not just about getting seen.

[00:05:43] It’s also about seeing the other person. So when you are trying to get seen by, let’s say a new audience or connect with a new type of client, it’s also about seeing them and speaking directly to what they need, where [00:06:00] they’re at, how they’re feeling.

[00:06:01] Desiree Stanley: That’s perfect. And so that tells us a little bit about like what it is. And so maybe there’s something that says what it’s not. And so then do you want to talk a little bit more about that? 

[00:06:12] Emily Aborn: Yeah. Just to define it I think it is anything that you’re really doing as a business owner to connect with those new audiences.

[00:06:19] And, and really all that I believe it’s not is just. The me, me, me show. And I think a lot of people will make it that where it is just like pushing their agenda or their goal or their business card at you, right? Like you go to those events and how many times have you had the experience where people are just like, you can tell they’re just mass handing out their business cards without any.

[00:06:42] Kind of interest or curiosity or consideration for who you are or really any desire to create that true connection. So that’s what I want to reframe visibility as is like not just an opportunity to be seen, but also to see other people to make like where it’s basically a bridge between [00:07:00] you and them.

[00:07:02] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s wonderful. And such a good point, I think, because, many of us have been at events like that, as you just described, where it’s just cards, cards, cards, instead of taking, the extra time to understand, you know, what the other person’s pain point is, what is their problem?

[00:07:20] What kind of solution are they looking for or needing that maybe you can help them with? And so I think that that’s such a great point. So let’s talk a little bit about How you can choose to be visible in a little bit more detail. 

[00:07:36] Emily Aborn: Okay, I’ll, I like to tell stories. So I’ll kind of go back to that mattress store time.

[00:07:41] In that business, it had been going pretty well for the first three years. Like we were successful year over year. Like it was everything you could hope for, especially in retail specifically. And we did hit like a little bit of a speed bump in that business. So I reached out to a mentor through the, [00:08:00] we have a organization here in New Hampshire called the SBDC.

[00:08:03] It’s the small business development center and they provide you with like free consulting and mentorship. So that was kind of like my first dabble into like. working with a business consultant. And she sat me down and basically was like, okay, Emily, we were doing all of the things like talk about SEO. We had like a very search engine friendly website.

[00:08:24] I was writing blogs. I was writing emails. We printed, like we had like advertisements in all of these local publications. Like we were doing all. the things, right? All the marketing things, posting on social media, all that stuff. When people actually came into our store, we offered them a really, really good customer experience.

[00:08:42] Like sometimes they even had like coffee cookies and like mimosas on Sundays. Like it was a fun mattress store. So she sat me down, like after hearing that, hearing my sob story. And saying, you know what, Emily, like, I think you’ve gotten a little too comfortable in, [00:09:00] in being in your store and just kind of doing the same old, same old, and she’s like, I think it’s time to think outside the box.

[00:09:06] So what she basically told me was that I needed to put on like my baby, brand new business owner pants and like go out and make friends. And I was like. Okay. So I did it. I took, she specifically, gave me the instructions of meet people in like minded industries, chiropractors, acupuncturists, health and wellness specialists.

[00:09:30] You know, essential oil folks, like people like that. And I just was like, you know what, I’m going to just meet everybody. So I did. I started meeting a ton of people. I had coffee dates with people. I started collaborating with people like doing podcasts and radio interviews, having people into my shop to host events like.

[00:09:51] A mattress store is a great place to host like a solar energy event and like a ladies night. Like it just turns into so many wonderful things.[00:10:00] If you think outside the box, so I did that, I just kind of like kept on going until suddenly one day I looked up and I’m like, Oh my gosh, I have this huge network of entrepreneurs and people around me, people I can call when I need something, people who I can trust, people who I can bounce ideas and resources off of.

[00:10:21] So that alone, it didn’t like boost our sales, like 10, 000 percent in that particular business, but it did send me off on the trajectory for what I was doing next. Because I can honestly say that without making those connections that I made way back then I would not know half of the people that I know right now and be have such a great like network around me.

[00:10:48] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. And it sounds like really that stepping out of your comfort zone and doing those things meeting all the different people at the, meetup sessions or [00:11:00] whatever, just the coffee dates you’re talking about and just that collaboration. And I think we’re going to talk on that next and collaboration specifically.

[00:11:08] Really, like you said, just change the whole direction of of where you were going while still offering you some additional business. I’m assuming for your store at the time, it sounds like. So let’s go ahead then and dive into the collaboration aspect of it since you just touched on that and and tell us who you are.

[00:11:32] Would you say would be a good person to collaborate with and is it going to depend on the type of business that you’re in or a situation that you’re in? 

[00:11:42] Emily Aborn: For sure. And sometimes it’s a little bit of trial and error. And I don’t want the introverts listening to be scared. Like you have to go meet all of these people.

[00:11:50] You don’t, okay. And you can do it in a really intentional, calm, a good for your body and your brain. But when it comes to collaborations, how. [00:12:00] I honestly, I learned my lessons in life going through them and learning the hard way. So I collaborated with a lot of fantastic people. And I also collaborated with a lot of people that probably I would never choose to collaborate with again.

[00:12:13] What it comes down to, I think is yes, like an alignment with your businesses, like you and I , we share a very similar listener. Someone who’s curious, right? Maybe somebody who owns their own business or is just like looking to learn while they’re in their professional job. So we have a good alignment here.

[00:12:31] Like you cover a lot of the topics I’m fascinated in. I like to talk about topics that your audience is interested in. So that’s like. Alignment. And I think the other one is like making sure that both people are willing to bring to the table their best. So, and I can honestly say like, it’s like the group projects in school.

[00:12:54] Remember when you were the one that did all the work and everybody else gets the A? It doesn’t feel [00:13:00] very good, but it also doesn’t feel good. If somebody else does all the work and they get the A and you know that you did not bring your best to the table. So I think that, you know, a collaboration for me is like one plus one equals greater than one.

[00:13:15] Like we can double our impact. We can triple our impact. We can quadruple our impact by coming together and bringing our skill sets and resources and ideas together. I connect with your audience. I share with my audience. So you see how that it helps us basically go further, faster, wider together. So we talked about alignment.

[00:13:39] I think also the vision of like what you want from the collaboration is really important in some cases. Like especially if you’re doing an event together with somebody choosing like, okay, what is actually our vision for this? What is our goal for this? What do we want this to look like? And that can be totally on a different page.

[00:13:57] And if it is, and if you cannot get on [00:14:00] the same page with that person, what your vision is, I think it’s a time to step away from the collaboration and say like, you know what? This isn’t. It’s not aligned for me because there’s nothing worse than getting in about, you know, 75 percent and realizing, Oh, this is not at all what I want for this.

[00:14:18] And this is clearly what they want for this. I think that there’s Some trial and error, right? Like, I think sometimes we try things. We believe that they’re going to be great and wonderful opportunities and they don’t work out so well. And then I think that sometimes it comes down a little bit to that, like, gut sense, that intuition, that feeling you get from somebody talking with them and having open communication, like, are they able to openly communicate , and really making sure that you’re both in this with the effort.

[00:14:48] So. One last thing on collaborating with like putting effort in when somebody, let’s say somebody is looking for like more podcast guesting opportunities or speaking [00:15:00] opportunities. Like it is such a great way to give back to the person who’s bringing you on as a guest by sharing, sharing their episodes, sharing the speaking opportunity, sharing the event.

[00:15:12] So it’s just like little things like that, that even if it’s not your platform per se, there’s still ways that you can be a good collaborator. 

[00:15:21] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent points. Really. And I love the story that you shared about , the projects in school, because I think that. Pretty much everybody who’s listening has experienced that at one point or another, either, you know, they’ve been the person who’s done all the work or have been involved in a group where they could see that there was some people who weren’t pulling their weight.

[00:15:41] So I think for sure everybody can relate to that. and I love that you’re talking about sharing things. That you know how you can support the person that you’re collaborating with if it’s not necessarily, your target audience or whatever you can still share that with others and it may hit somebody [00:16:00] who needs to hear it and you’re supporting the person in that way.

[00:16:03] And I think that’s a fantastic idea. I love it. So let’s talk about. When a collaboration maybe goes awry and what, what do you do then? And you did talk a little bit about, you know, maybe you need to pull back. You realize this is not quite the right fit, but what happens if you’ve pushed ahead anyway, and now it’s not so good.

[00:16:24] Emily Aborn: Yeah, it’s funny. I’m working on a podcast for next week on What happens when you fail and you know failure really like I know we don’t really love the word But it really just means like I didn’t succeed in what I set out to do. So it’s like it’s okay We just didn’t succeed And it’s happened in collaborations where I did not succeed in what I set out to do.

[00:16:46] So what I do is I have like a little process, right? First of all, I sit back and I feel my feelings and they’re not always comfortable feelings. Sometimes they’re feelings of relief, right? There could be just this whole mix of [00:17:00] feelings when, when something doesn’t go the way that we thought it was going to go, or it goes awry.

[00:17:05] First and foremost, you have to get. Like through it and in many cases, but then once it’s over, you feel all your feelings around it and let yourself just feel like that full spectrum of whatever it is. Number two, you can congratulate yourself because you tried and in my opinion, like if you are trying new things, if you are putting yourself out there, you’re going to fail.

[00:17:28] Things are not going to work. So you can congratulate yourself because most people don’t even take that step they just leave that nice idea on the paper or like, Oh, yeah. Listen to that podcast, not going to do that, right? So you can congratulate yourself because you did that. Then it’s like time to go into assessment mode, like post mortem, if you will, on the collaboration.

[00:17:50] What were the internal factors that sort of made this not go so well? Like, where was my energy? I’ll give you a great example. I collaborated with somebody [00:18:00] over the winter and I Had two of my grandparents pass away, like boom, boom, one after the other. Then I got COVID, then my husband got COVID.

[00:18:09] It was just like this whole series of unfortunate events. And during that time, I was trying to plan a collaboration with someone. And I had no business doing that. Like, it was a lot of energy, and it was not my best work in so, so many ways. My point being that’s an internal factor, right?

[00:18:29] That’s something where at the beginning I could have been like, you know what? I do not have the energy for this. I’m not in the headspace for this. So I can’t do this. I can’t move forward. So looking at those internal factors did you even want it in the first place? Like how often does something go wrong?

[00:18:45] And it’s just because we really actually didn’t really want it in the first place. And then it’s time to look at those like external things. Like, well, social media hates us all and it doesn’t help us promote anything. Maybe the season. Like [00:19:00] if you try to plan something on Christmas day in America, chances are it probably will not be well attended.

[00:19:06] I can speak from personal experience. If you’re planning something like at the end of September to like the first two weeks of October, people are very busy and they’re paying very little attention. So it’s like looking at those external things and then other big, big things would be like political things.

[00:19:23] Economic things election times, like things like that that are going on totally outside of your control. And you just kind of put it all together. And then you’re like, okay, what am I going to do moving forward? Am I going to try this again with someone else? Am I going to try it again with the same person in a different way?

[00:19:40] Am I going to do this myself? Am I never going to touch this again? So it’s sort of like using that whole process, feel your feelings, congratulate yourself, do a postmortem and then decide how you want to move forward with intention. So anything, I think that goes awry, any failure, if you will, [00:20:00] we can use that process to help us.

[00:20:03] Fail forward, right? Get feedback from the failure and turn it into a win. I can’t even tell you how many failures have become like major wins in my life propelled me to the next step. Helped me to make a decision I may not have otherwise made. 

[00:20:17] Desiree Stanley: Such great points there. Oh my gosh. I love that, you never know until you try. And then when you do try, if it doesn’t work out the way you thought, instead of, you know, considering it a failure, it’s a learning lesson, right? How much are you going to be able to pull out of that, that you can take and carry forward into whatever it is that you do next.

[00:20:39] It’s such a learning experience if we look at it that way. So fantastic. Thank you for sharing all of that as well. And I’m so sorry to hear about your grandparents. That’s devastating. And then back to back. And then you’re ill and your husband’s ill. So I am sorry that that was the experience that you had at that time.

[00:20:57] So, but thank you for sharing that with us [00:21:00] because Those things happen and it is life and, and that’s going to happen, you know, in our lives as well. We’re going to have those things that, you know, come up on us and are totally unexpected. And then how do we deal with it? And that’s such a great point that you spoke to also about, maybe I should have just said.

[00:21:19] I can’t do this right now. 

[00:21:21] Emily Aborn: You know what? There’s no shame in saying that at any time to anyone. I mean, I think that’s where I’m really learning in my business right now is like, if I can’t give something out 100 percent yes, I don’t really want to do it. I don’t want to be committed to it because then I’m just dreading it on the day that it comes or not really putting my all into it.

[00:21:42] So thank you for saying that. And I want us all to kind of like let go of that shame, like the people pleasing it, it works like in the short term, it makes you feel really good to say yes when you first say it. But then in the longterm, it almost always hurts [00:22:00] way, way more than had you just said no in the first place.

[00:22:03] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I 100 percent agree. It’s becomes this thing that you’re dreading when it shouldn’t be. If you’re really truly excited about the collaboration or the work or whatever it is that you’re going to be doing, it should excite you the whole time. And if it doesn’t, then it should have been a no.

[00:22:20] And then maybe how do you get out of it in a way that You don’t wear bridges or cut ties. So that’s something that I don’t know if you, you don’t want to speak to that, but you know, it’s one of those life lessons is learning when to say, no, I’m, I’m afraid it’s not going to work for me right now or whatever.

[00:22:39] Emily Aborn: Well, one thing I definitely do want to highlight that you just mentioned, and I, I hadn’t even touched on this before, but Excitement is a really good indicator that a collaboration is going to go well. Two people that are real or whatever, three people that are really, really excited to do something together.

[00:22:56] And also that particular thing. I [00:23:00] think that’s a really, really good indication that something is going to go well. I also am a big fan of like, Respect, you know, like, do we both respect each other? Trust, can I trust you? And then just like I said, like that delight that you’re like, Ooh, I’m so excited to be doing this with this person.

[00:23:16] And then as far as burning bridges, I mean, I definitely think that that is a part sadly of doing business when you’re doing it with your heart, right? Because when you are doing things with your heart, it’s. It’s almost hard not to make mistakes. It’s easy not to make mistakes if all you were doing is running a data driven business.

[00:23:37] But I think that as a human being, we use our heart and our brain, and I think that when we do that, it’s inevitable that sometimes those things bump into other people’s hearts and brains, and it doesn’t go how we planned. 

[00:23:52] Desiree Stanley: That’s right on, that’s a fabulous point, because we are human.

[00:23:56] We are dealing with other humans and we all have our, [00:24:00] you know, stuff, so to speak. And so that’s going to happen sometimes for sure. Well, you’ve mentioned a couple of times about podcasting and your podcast. I’d love to have you share with us now because you actually have. Two that you have launched.

[00:24:14] And so tell us about, first of all, what they are, the names of them and what they’re about. 

[00:24:20] Emily Aborn: Well, thank you for that. I love both of my podcasts, like two separate little children. So the, She Built This Podcast I launched in 2019 and basically that is my collaboration. That is a piece of collaboration for me.

[00:24:36] I get to bring on really great guests, have really great conversations and it’s a win, win, win. For them, my listeners and me. So that’s like my collaboration piece. And then I have to like, just get cozy, like me and my listener. So I do a show that is specific to marketing visibility and content called the Content With Character Podcast.

[00:24:59] And it [00:25:00] is just me. So if people don’t like me, I would not recommend listening. 

[00:25:05] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh, that’s funny. Well, thank you for telling us about the two different ones. And so let’s talk a little bit about Content With Character and what is that that you’re talking about specifically on the show?

[00:25:18] Emily Aborn: I think my goal, like I kind of said at the beginning, I don’t want people just producing more content for content sake. There’s so much content out there. And a lot of it is. Generic. A lot of it is not specific. And a lot of it doesn’t sound like the actual person that wrote it or is creating it.

[00:25:34] It’s, it’s not genuine, right? So I’m really like trying to help people. First of all, do marketing and visibility in a way that feels really good to them. I don’t believe that it needs to be this huge thing that you need to loathe and hate in your business. I believe that everybody can find a way to do it in a way that feels really good and maybe even fun.

[00:25:56] I don’t know. Just saying like, this is very fun. And [00:26:00] hypothetically, this is a form of marketing. So there’s that. But then I, I use the phrase distinctly you, because I think that when we are human businesses you know what? When we are human beings, I think it’s important to remember, I know it’s very cliche, but you really are 1 in 8 billion.

[00:26:22] I mean, like, really, like, you’re the only person with your DNA. You’re the only person with your experiences, with your stories, with your unique set of personality traits. Like there is no other you. There may be people that look like you. People say I look like somebody all the time. I’m like, no, that’s the other girl with brown hair and brown eyes, but there is nobody that is you.

[00:26:44] And so that’s really kind of my goal through the show is really to talk to people about like how to do this all in a way that is distinctly you, because the truth is when we are distinctly us, some people don’t like us. Some [00:27:00] people love us. Right. And we want to work with people that are as excited to work with us as we are with them.

[00:27:06] So that’s really the whole crux of the message in a nutshell. 

[00:27:11] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s fantastic. I love it. And I love what you said about. Everyone truly is unique. We really are. There is no one else like you, like me, like whoever is listening right now. We are completely unique. And remembering that the knowledge that we have, the experiences that we’ve had are truly special is, is right on.

[00:27:36] It absolutely is right on. So I love that you shared that. And, you know, the way that you’re trying to talk about marketing, and it’s not like in a salesy way, it’s really about, you’re personalizing it, you’re trying to reach to the listener, or the target audience in a way that Helps [00:28:00] them solve a need or a problem that they’re having, or whatever the case may be by that collaboration again, you know, here’s this person who has this, here’s a person who needs that and how do we make that happen and come together.

[00:28:14] So I think that’s fantastic. Let’s talk a little bit now about She Built This. How did that come about? And what are you talking about on the show? 

[00:28:24] Emily Aborn: Yeah, so on the, She Built This podcast. I talk to women entrepreneurs and I like to say, and the people in their life who support them. So sometimes I meet a person that’s not a woman entrepreneur and I’m like, I have to have you on my show.

[00:28:37] It is really a place for me to lean into my own curiosity and my listeners are like very curious people. They love to learn their lifelong learners. And so I like to bring those conversations to the table that give them different perspectives. And we don’t really talk about like business strategy and marketing strategy and like how to do things and you should be [00:29:00] doing this.

[00:29:00] Like my goal is. Anything, but to overwhelm my listener, because we have a lot of places we can choose to give our time and attention. And I think that what we all want at the end of the day, even in the podcast, we choose to listen to is a connection. I want my listener to feel like when they’re listening to me having a conversation with one of my guests, it’s like, Oh, I’m just sitting here with my two friends, you know, listening to them chat about things.

[00:29:22] Even if one of my friends is, I don’t know, Mel Robbins. And the other one is Emily Aborn. So. It really is that. And the way I started was I used to interview chamber members about their businesses. So I’d like go around with like my little, there was like a tape recorder thing on the cell phone that I, I discovered.

[00:29:43] And so I would record their interview and I was like, I have to do something with these interviews. Cause I have all these interviews and I’m doing nothing with them. So I tried like doing a blog about them and I really, after listening to Serial, I mean, I was like going to be a podcaster a [00:30:00] hundred percent.

[00:30:00] And that was like in 2015. So I, as soon as I sat down in that chair and did my first podcast on that show, I was like, I am hooked. Like you will never get me out of here. 

[00:30:13] Desiree Stanley: I love it. And what a, what a neat way though, interviewing the chamber members. So, I mean, if somebody is listening and thinking like, how do I get started in something like this?

[00:30:26] Like, I’m interested in learning about people or whatever the case may be, just the memo recording, like you were talking about on your iPhone. Just go interview somebody and how you can upload that so easily into a podcast. Wow, that’s a great idea. So if anybody wants to take that and run with it.

[00:30:44] But also that. It, it sort of launched you into this whole realm, of podcasting, as you said. And so fantastic. I love hearing the story about how things came to be. So thank you for sharing that with us. [00:31:00] And so let’s talk a little bit now about connection. Then how are you connecting with your audience, with your network and you know, how is that coming about?

[00:31:14] Emily Aborn: Okay, let’s take it from an audience perspective and then sort of like the people that you meet every day in your business, because I think that it’s going to look different depending on like what your actual personality is as to how you like to connect with people. When it comes to who you’re talking to, I don’t actually think a lot of people know who they’re talking to.

[00:31:33] I think a lot of people put their message out there and they’re like, this is for anybody. And I just read Seth Godin’s book, The Purple Cow. It’s a super easy read. It’s like this big. And he says in his book, and I love this quote, and I will not forget it. He always says the everybody products are already taken, meaning the products that are for everybody.

[00:31:55] I don’t know. Craft macaroni and cheese, right? Tide detergent like those [00:32:00] products are taken. So now we need to speak specifically to people because people Are really invested in brands that they feel a connection to. So how do you, how do you create that connection, right? Well, first you need to know who they are.

[00:32:14] And I mean, kind of specifically sometimes, like I often have this conversation with my clients where I’ll give them two samples of writing and I’ll say, okay. Do you want to go in this direction where we’re like a little more generalized, or do you want to go in this direction where we’re really painting the picture of how your client is feeling and thinking and interacting with their day?

[00:32:36] And like 90 percent of the time they’re like, Oh no, I want this specific language because it’s then when a person goes onto your website or reads your social media posts. And they say to you, you were in my brain. Oh my God. Were you in my brain? You’re like, yes, I was. I actually was in fact. So I think the first thing is knowing like really who you’re speaking to and having an in depth understanding of what [00:33:00] they experience and what their struggles are.

[00:33:03] I don’t love. And I think this is just like a personal opinion, but I also think we’re kind of moving away from this as a whole in content. It seems I don’t love just like barraging people with their pain. So you’re not going to go to my website and see like a list of pain points. You’re going to see like a list of ways I can really help you to transform what you’re experiencing and that’s kind of like how I like to bring people through the process like if I’m going to say something dark to you, I’m definitely going to bring you into transformation right away. So it’s not that it is just speaking to other human beings, recognizing where they’re coming from.

[00:33:42] And I think when we’re making those connections like in one to one settings in networking settings. On the stage when we’re speaking, you can do the same thing before you and I hit record. I asked you like who specifically listens to your podcast. I like to have a mental picture in my head of who the [00:34:00] person is that’s listening.

[00:34:01] Maybe what they’re doing, maybe they’re walking their dog or they’re like driving on their way to the office. Just so that I can speak like specifically to them. So it’s about even when you are in those kind of like broader settings, you can still be making that connection. And then on a one to one basis I think it’s like being really First of all, genuine and also asking questions more than maybe you talk.

[00:34:27] Now, we’re in a little bit of a weird situation, you and me right here, because you said to me, you’re going to do most of the talking. But if you and I were in a networking situation, and this was literally all I was doing, you’d be like, Okay. You haven’t asked me a single question, right? So I think it’s really that.

[00:34:47] And like, I like to do little tiny things. Like if I see a meme or something on Instagram that like reminds me of a certain person, I just send it to them. Someone actually sent me [00:35:00] a podcast episode today, which was super fantastic. And I’ll share it with you at the end. But she sent me a podcast episode today.

[00:35:07] And was like, Hey, I was thinking of you because I think you would like this person. And I did. And it was a great way to make that connection. Like we’re business colleagues. It was a super simple thing. And like, just knowing that she was thinking of me while she was listening to that podcast made a huge impact.

[00:35:23] Oh, she does listen to me. She does care what I think and what I feel. So it’s like those little, little tiny things. And you can do it for your clients too. It’s a great way to create like a client experience when you heard what they like, or when their birthday is, and you send them that little gift of the socks that they wanted, or a birthday card on their birthday, or a bottle of wine or something like that.

[00:35:46] So just making those, like taking the extra step to make those little tiny, meaningful moments of connection. 

[00:35:54] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah, absolutely. That’s fantastic. You know, it is important to [00:36:00] remember that we have two ears and one mouth. So we should listen more than we speak and asking questions of the person that you’re interacting with.

[00:36:09] Because I think that. You know, you can get so much more. It’s not, it doesn’t have to be one sided. It’s, it’s not about just speaking constantly during an interaction. It is important to have some back and forth, but when you’re asking questions, you’re learning about the other person and you can.

[00:36:25] Absolutely, you know, be more beneficial for them as well because you know, maybe what they need, what they like, what they’re interested in. And so that’s fantastic. And I love that you shared about something that came to mind for, you know, a friend of yours who said, I just have to send this to you because I know you’re going to love it.

[00:36:43] And I think that when we do that, that connection becomes deeper. Right. 

[00:36:48] Emily Aborn: Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. 

[00:36:50] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, you mentioned a book earlier Seth Godin, and I do always love to ask my guests what books that they have found [00:37:00] beneficial or influential in their own lives that they’d like to suggest that the listeners take a look at.

[00:37:05] So besides The Purple Cow, is there another couple of books that you’d like to suggest that the listeners take a look at? 

[00:37:12] Emily Aborn: Yeah. So I’ll share one business related and one for fun. Yeah. When I was like 16 years old, I applied for this customer service job and I did not get the job, but they handed me this book called Hug Your Customers by Jack Mitchell.

[00:37:27] And it changed my life. Like it changed the way that I viewed customer service and exactly what you and I were just talking about. And Making those connections with people. So I definitely recommend that. It’s still in circulation today, and it’s a really, really good book, like for your whole life, but especially for business owners.

[00:37:48] And just for fun. I just read Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus, and it was delightful. I don’t usually read like the popular reads, but this one I did and it was truly [00:38:00] amazing. Like she has a very unique writing style and depth of character. It was very, very, very good. And if you don’t like to read, it’s coming on Apple TV in like two weeks.

[00:38:09] Desiree Stanley: I did just see that as well. The, they’re turning it into a show. So that’s awesome. And really not everybody chooses to read that type of book, but why not take a look at it and see if it’s something that, you know, you might be surprised. And again, it’s like, you don’t know until you try.

[00:38:26] But thank you so much for those recommendations. I love it. And I’ll include those in the show notes, of course, as well as both of your podcast names. So the listeners can easily find those and Emily, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I have truly enjoyed our conversation. I think it’s just been wonderful and I appreciate your knowledge and the information that you shared with us today.

[00:38:49] So thank you. 

[00:38:50] Emily Aborn: Thanks for having me, Desiree. This was great. 

[00:38:53] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, lastly, before we go, I would love for you , to share with the listeners [00:39:00] where they might be able to connect with you. If they have more questions about what you’re doing, they want to follow your journey where would they be able to do that?

[00:39:08] Emily Aborn: Oh, thank you. Thanks for that opportunity. I’ll make it very easy. You can find me in all the places at EmilyAborn.Com and I am on all social media, but you can find at the bottom as, as websites allow it. 

[00:39:21] Desiree Stanley: Perfect. And I’ll include that as well in the show notes for easy access. And Emily, again, thank you so much for your time today.

[00:39:29] I so appreciate it. Thank you. 

[00:39:31] Emily Aborn: Thanks Desiree. 

[00:39:32] Desiree Stanley: We’ll talk more soon.

——————————

POK_Samantha Berkowtiz Podcast_10_04_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge Podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Samantha Berkowitz. Welcome to the show, Samantha. I’m so excited to have you with us today. How are you? 

[00:00:13] Samantha Berkowitz: Good. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to chat with you today.

[00:00:17] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. So Samantha is the founder of SammiB Nutrition, and also you’ve written an ebook and we’ll talk about that a little bit as we get into the show. But I’d love to hear. As a registered dietitian was that what prompted you to begin SammiB Nutrition or how did that whole concept come about for you?

[00:00:41] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah, totally. It definitely starting my private practice wasn’t something I really thought I wanted to do, like when I was studying nutrition originally, but through school and just kind of studying textbook nutrition. I developed a lot of disordered eating habits with food and exercise [00:01:00] and it kind of brought me around to this other side of nutrition that was much more disordered and that people really struggle with.

[00:01:09] But when I kind of recovered from that, I really wanted to help other people that are struggling with disordered eating or even just chronic dieting and to kind of move away from that. But being kind of focusing on the intuitive eating and health at every size space, I kind of just wanted to counsel my way and do it like the way I wanted to do.

[00:01:33] So that really pushed me to start my own practice versus joining a different one. 

[00:01:39] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Thank you for filling in a little bit of the info on that, how that came about. And you mentioned a couple of things, which I think we’re hearing a lot more frequently. Disordered eating I think is really something that we’re hearing a lot more.

[00:01:54] And, and can you talk a little bit about that? Tell us what that means exactly. 

[00:01:58] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah, [00:02:00] definitely. So I think it can be confusing because, like you said, we hear a lot about disordered eating versus eating disorders, and so eating disorders are outlined in the DSM 5, which is basically just a diagnostic tool used by medical professionals, but disordered eating can really present in the different ways and we see a lot more because I think also social media is so profound and pushes information so quickly and it really, you know, we get something quick snippets and we’re not really looking it up and fact checking it and all that stuff and it’s unfortunate that we need to. But it’s really easy for like catchy things to become trendy, but it doesn’t really mean that they’re good for us.

[00:02:46] And so I find a lot of things that are being promoted by influencers or different people on Instagram or TikTok. They’re like, Oh, this is how I lost weight or this is how I did this. And, you know, me and a lot of people in my space are [00:03:00] like, Whoa, let’s slow the roll. it’s a lot of things that seem harmless.

[00:03:04] But can be a very easy way to snowball into like very rigid kind of thinking around food and, body dysmorphia and that kind of stuff. 

[00:03:14] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That also, I think leads into, you mentioned intuitive eating. And so let’s talk a little bit about that. And then I know that you had mentioned like, is it really possible to lose weight, by following that intuitive eating?

[00:03:31] So let’s talk about what it is and go from there. 

[00:03:34] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah. So intuitive eating is a framework kind of guidelines that was developed by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch. But it’s basically just guidelines to kind of help individuals reconnect with their body and use things like hunger cues, fullness cues for eating, as well as finding the type of movement they enjoy, just kind of really bringing us back to those intuitive body cues [00:04:00] that we are born with but tend to kind of go against because of the societal rules that we kind of have around food but just to like reconnect there to basically make those food choices based on what we find satisfying, what Like an individual, finds satisfies their hunger or their taste or their body for different activities or just day to day things like that.

[00:04:25] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s such a great point. And it made me think about how with, you know, the work schedules that we have, where it’s sort of like you get this amount of time at this point in the day, and this is when you get to eat kind of. nullifies that intuitive eating. I think a little bit like, instead of listening to those cues, like you said, that our body is giving us about when we’re actually hungry, we’re sort of forced into this window of time that you have to eat.

[00:04:54] And then I think that like you’re saying it diminishes those cues are naturally [00:05:00] innate in us or can diminish those cues, right? 

[00:05:03] Samantha Berkowitz: Right. Yeah. And it, it definitely can. But I think part of it too is like you mentioned, having a certain amount of time at work to eat, maybe you’re not hungry, but also being okay with, well, I’m going to eat now because I’m really might not have the opportunity to do that later, but also the things like that kind of can diminish those cues in addition to kind of .just being forced into eating certain ways, but also following diets that push us to, you know, only eat between this time in the morning and this time at night, or, you know, you can’t eat after this time, or this type of food is not allowed and those kinds of rules go against what our body wants to do.

[00:05:45] And so sometimes it’s very hard to reconnect with those cues. And we’ve spent a lot of our life you know, basically ignoring them because we feel like we couldn’t trust our body. And I wanted to touch on, you mentioned asking before and answer your question about the [00:06:00] weight loss piece. And there are a lot of people on social media and the internet promoting intuitive eating, as a weight loss tactic, but they kind of don’t go together. So it’s not saying like you’ll gain weight or you’ll lose weight or what will happen. It’s just that intuitive eating focuses on, improving your relationship with food, your body and movement and those healthy, like health behaviors to go forward versus focusing on weight because the science actually shows that our actual weight or body size doesn’t correlate with our actual health status. And so, you know, we should be looking at other health markers when assessing health status like blood pressure and different lab values and not just body size or weight to kind of make those determinations. 

[00:06:51] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s such an excellent point right there and not being you know, tied to a number that’s on the scale, which so many of [00:07:00] us have been for a long time and really looking, like you said, at really more important factors like your overall general health, those labs you know, that kind of stuff.

[00:07:11] Are really more of an indicator of your health than, you know, a number on a scale or a size of a piece of clothing that you’re wearing. 

[00:07:19] Samantha Berkowitz: Totally. And yeah, the clothing thing is something that gets me too, because I feel like as when we kind of noticed that it’s still hard to understand almost that every single store has a different sizing model.

[00:07:30] So a pair of 6 jeans at the three different stores is totally different. But it’s still has this feeling when you’d like go up a size or, you know, you don’t like that kind of jean and it really is how society just pushes us into this is the like quote unquote size that’s okay and passed that, it’s like not.

[00:07:49] And so I try and help my clients really look towards if you want to be healthy It doesn’t necessarily mean you step back and kind of say, okay, what does that really look like outside [00:08:00] of just my body size or clothing sizes and things like that? 

[00:08:04] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such a great point. And to really remember those things. And you talked also about movement and how important that is in just overall general health and well being you know, is getting that movement in it. What feels good for you and what you enjoy doing really again, goes with that whole concept of intuitive eating.

[00:08:26] It’s like doing things that you enjoy doing that feel good. Right. And then you want to continue to do them. Yeah, totally love it. Well, let’s talk a little bit about the freedom that you can have when you are going with intuitive eating, what does that look like? 

[00:08:47] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah. And I think it gets kind of a bad rep of like, Oh, well, you’re just eating whatever you want all the time.

[00:08:53] So , if I let myself do that, I would just eat junk all the time. And one, I like to move [00:09:00] away from the word junk cause I like to try and neutralize all foods. It’s kind of part of moving forward and that is like, they just serve different purposes, but what food freedom can look like is it’s not really about Just eating whatever or how much of whatever you want all the time, but being able to, you know, spontaneously go out to ice cream with your partner after dinner and not having any guilt and shame around that.

[00:09:24] Because you didn’t, plan for ahead of time or not feeling like you have to compensate the next day for that ice cream or, you know, you have plans with friends and it means you have to cancel your gym workout or your class and being okay with that and saying like, right now, I want to prioritize social time and, you know, I can go a different day.

[00:09:45] It’s not going to impact me because I missed the one class or I ate one meal differently or did one thing our health is so much more complex than that. And just being able to actually enjoy food again and life again, without that guilt and [00:10:00] shame and kind of feeling like you have to keep tabs on everything all the time to somehow even out, even though it doesn’t really work like that, but that’s how it feels when you’re in that kind of mindset before getting to that space of food freedom. 

[00:10:15] Desiree Stanley: Oh yeah, for sure. And when you were talking about the term junk food or something like that, that really has like a judgment connotation instead of looking at, this serves maybe a small purpose in enjoyment and you know, there’s nothing wrong with it. But when you place a judgment on it, you’re saying there’s something wrong with it. And the same idea of going out to dinner with friends or whatever. And now do you have to like, quote unquote, work off that meal that you had?

[00:10:46] And I think that a lot of people, myself included, have had that. You know, thought like if I’m going to have this amount of food or whatever, I’ve indulged overly. I need to work out a little bit harder the next day. And I think that that happens a [00:11:00] lot for people. And so, you know how this is, it’s a little bit deeper, right?

[00:11:06] But how do we move past that kind of thinking? 

[00:11:10] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah. And it’s really hard because it takes intentional work for sure, especially with all the things like social media and society that kind of almost unknowingly we’re being exposed to, even when it’s not directly Oh, follow this diet or something like that.

[00:11:26] But to kind of move past that is something kind of those first steps I help clients with is taking, if you’re like, okay, I want chips with my sandwich today. And you know, a thought comes up about, Oh, I shouldn’t have that. I should be good and have carrots or celery or something like that with my sandwich.

[00:11:45] Kind of like, is that going to satisfy you? And if all you’re looking for is something crunchy and maybe it does, then that’s okay. Right. But if we’re looking for that salty, crunchy, kind of a little greasy, like taste, [00:12:00] what’s going to happen is we’re going to eat the carrots and the celery, and then you’re still not going to be satisfied, so we’re going to eat something else and something else, and eventually you’ll come back around to the chips because that’s what’s going to satisfy you.

[00:12:12] So kind of just understanding, like, it’s not about eating less food, but if we just eat what we wanted kind of in the first place, if that’s accessible to us, then, that will, you know, help quiet those thoughts. In general, a second thing that can be a good, first step into that would be let’s see, like kind of just challenging those thoughts and identifying like how that food serves you.

[00:12:38] So, you mentioned neutralizing kind of, I like to call them fun foods, but what we would consider junk food, traditionally, so saying okay, well foods can serve me in multiple ways, like nutrient dense foods, like salad and carrots and celery and all those things maybe you want something fresh and crunchy, but maybe you really just want that nutrient density and that’s okay. Diet culture isn’t [00:13:00] on the salad, even though sometimes it feels like that, but with the other foods, you can just enjoy it because it tastes good or you’re out with family and they pitched the restaurant and so you’re just enjoying the food and you didn’t really get to pick or maybe, this is the healthiest option, but it’s like not about that in that moment.

[00:13:20] And sometimes it really is just about taste like I wanted some ice cream, and that’s going to satisfy me right now, and just kind of identifying those neutral motivators versus with those like negative times kind of like you mentioned. Thank you. 

[00:13:34] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, excellent point. So, so great there and talking about the satisfaction that you get from the thing that you’re like craving in the moment as opposed to ignoring or avoiding it and then end up eating all these other things and coming back around to it anyway.

[00:13:50] And so you could have just solved it from the start if you accept that this is what I feel like I need right now and have that thing [00:14:00] and be okay with it. And that’s fantastic point. And I love that. So thank you for sharing that. I want to talk about something that you mentioned, and that was you know, eating this way all the time.

[00:14:14] And what does that mean exactly because if you’re choosing food freedom what does that mean? Like eating this way all the time? 

[00:14:21] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah. I guess It gets that rep of like eating whatever you want all the time, but it is really just kind of tuning in to at first, when we start this process, a lot of clients, including myself at the beginning, or you take off the reins and before you can get to Oh, I want a salad in this moment.

[00:14:37] And Oh, like a cookie is what I want. Or a burger and fries is what I want. Right. There’s going to be kind of that messy middle of I can eat cookies now. I’m going to eat all the cookies and that’s kind of where the fear of binging and overeating comes from. But something that’s really important to kind of learn about and can settle those thoughts is like food habituation.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] So I have a client that’s worried about binging on Oreos. And so she doesn’t keep Oreos in the house because she’s afraid if she has them in the house, she can eat the whole package. And so naturally when she does break down and buy them, she eats the entire package.

[00:15:13] But the idea is like, if you have them in the house all the time, that novelty wears off. So it’s not that you don’t enjoy the Oreos anymore, but like, The novelty and pull of like, well, this is the only chance I have to eat them. And once they’re gone, I’m not buying Oreos ever again, or kind of that, I’ll start the diet on Monday mentality.

[00:15:33] And so it allows for like, when we have all these foods around all the time, it takes that novelty feature off and allows us to pick the foods we actually want. And that’s when like later on, we move into maybe I have been eating a lot of fried foods lately and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but I can feel I just don’t feel as good, or I can feel like, some fiber would really help me out right [00:16:00] now.

[00:16:00] And those types of things where that’s really neutral, right? You can still identify that you are feeling sluggish or, you know, you feel like some fiber would help your belly get moving, like that kind of stuff. But it doesn’t have to be in a Oh, I’ve been so bad. I have to have these better foods.

[00:16:15] It’s really just a neutral, like, okay, I’ve had some of these and I think I need to incorporate in more greens or vegetables, like in the upcoming days to help me feel better. And that’s totally fine. 

[00:16:27] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah. I love it. Such good points there at like what you’re talking about, the novelty of it and that sort of deprivation feeling if it’s, if you don’t have it in the house, but suddenly you have it in the house and like, well, I better eat it now because I’m not going to have this again.

[00:16:44] And so that sort of almost triggered eating because it’s been denied from you for so long, you know, by choice. But, having that there. Like you said, the novelty wears off and that’s such a great [00:17:00] concept to think about, you know, versus the denial, not allowing yourself to even have it in the house because you think this is my reaction is going to be like this.

[00:17:10] So that’s such a great point kind of changing the way that you’re thinking about the food and again, the non judgment of these types of foods and what you’re doing by eating them not judging yourself in a negative way for eating them. So great stuff.

[00:17:28] I love it. Well, let’s talk a little bit more about how the social media can really impact our concept of our body and self image because that’s huge. I mean, it’s huge. 

[00:17:42] Samantha Berkowitz: Totally. Yeah, it really is big and we definitely see it in I would say younger generation because I feel like that includes myself but also like that 18 to kind of 35 area right now.

[00:17:54] We’ve had diet culture for so long, but especially now, the information moves so fast, but we [00:18:00] also are in such a state of comparison. So not only is it commercials on the TV, or media, or like the movies, you know, snippets about, stuff in there. It’s also like people presenting themselves.

[00:18:12] It’s like, Oh I am the picture of health or I do this and this is the best way, which I think is a really new, concepts to kind of the way we receive information. But when it really, I think it really does affect our relationship with food. There’s trends like what I eat in a day videos, and it’s people, like, oh, well I’m just posting for inspiration or like for fun.

[00:18:36] And while that may be the case, and maybe that is their motivation behind it, a lot of these videos always start with an image of their body. And whether that’s them holding up their shirt like, oh, I’m not bloated, or like, I’m so thin, or posing in front of the mirror. And while it’s may seem harmless and maybe their intention isn’t to like put the message out oh, you can eat like me and then you can look [00:19:00] like me, but that is kind of the message that is received, especially when the person is kind of like a gym influencer, or, you know, a health influencer those kind of areas is maybe that’s not the intention, but that kind of is the message that a lot of people receive from that.

[00:19:16] And so it just kind of pushes the more like, oh, well, if I ate like her, then I would look like her or I would feel better like her because social media is also that kind of like highlight real ideas. So like, she’s living her best life and maybe she is, but maybe, maybe she’s not. But you don’t know, but it’s kind of like, oh, well, if I eat or if I do these workouts exactly like this, then I’ll be her and you know, we could all eat the same and work out the same, but we’re not going to look the same because just our genetics aren’t. That’s why we like our faces. And features of us are just different. So that can be really hard when you’re in that state of comparison. And maybe you’re doing, like, the meal plan she puts online and the workout [00:20:00] outline she puts online.

[00:20:01] And you’re like, but I still don’t look like that. And maybe you just won’t, but there’s nothing wrong with that if you enjoy those foods or you enjoy those workouts, that’s okay. But we need to remove the I’m going to look a certain way from, like, doing this. 

[00:20:14] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah, that’s so great. And really what happens is we’re discounting the fact that we are a completely different person with completely different genetics and our body is going to respond to things completely differently than the person that we’re seeing.

[00:20:29] And I think that you completely forget that when you’re looking at these and thinking, Oh, I could get these kinds of results when that’s probably not the case, because you are an entirely different person and with an entirely different genetic makeup. And so while it can be inspirational, you’ve got to remember not to take it as there’s something wrong with me.

[00:20:53] If I don’t look like that, if I do exactly what they’re doing, right. 

[00:20:57] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah, and that’s kind of why I think like,[00:21:00] weight loss programs are kind of a false promise, if anyone’s promoting like, oh, you can lose this many pounds in this many days or, something along those lines, like definite guaranteed results.

[00:21:14] It just isn’t possible for them to guarantee that because. Even though we know certain things cause weight loss, even if it’s for the short term, we’re not copies of each other, so it’s not fair for them to make those claims. And then when you don’t reach that, say, goal or whatever they put out, then it’s your fault, right?

[00:21:34] Diets are the only things that are sold that it’s like, well, if you didn’t get this result, that I guaranteed you, it’s your fault. Where when we buy other things or like a rug, it’s like, well, it wasn’t what I thought it was and I’m going to send it back. And right, it’s hard because one’s a very tangible item, but like a cooking class, oh, I learned to cook, you know, maybe it’s not to the same level as the person over there, but I [00:22:00] learned a new skill.

[00:22:01] Like a diet is like, nope, they sold it to me and it didn’t work for me and it’s my fault. But they really just can’t guarantee those results because even if some people lose weight doing that, you know, we’re not talking about, are they keeping it off or what’s the percentage of people that are getting those results?

[00:22:20] We just don’t know, but it makes us feel bad when, you don’t reach that result. And then like, but it was promised, it was guaranteed. Like there’s something wrong with me for not. 

[00:22:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s such a good point. It immediately becomes another like internalized thing that we’re taking on that.

[00:22:38] There’s something wrong with me that I didn’t get the results they said I was supposed to get. So yeah, that’s such a great point. So let’s talk a little bit now about your ebook, when they go to check it out, what, what are they going to find? Because you’re talking about ditching diet distress.

[00:22:58] So tell us more about that because [00:23:00] I love that concept. 

[00:23:02] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah. So my ebook is the Beginner’s Guide to Ditching Diet Distress. It’s one of my free resources that I really wanted to put out to my community because I think it can be really scary to kind of jump into intuitive eating or kind of decide you’re going to ditch dieting because it kind of goes against what we’ve been told our entire lives through what is quote unquote healthy.

[00:23:29] And so I think there can be a lot of distress when dieting, because we’re in this kind of circle or yo yo phase. But then also like when we decide to be okay, well, I don’t want to do this anymore, but I also don’t know what the alternative is. And just that whole situation can be very distressing.

[00:23:49] I decided to make this resource and it kind of just allows you to take those first steps into this journey of some self reflection and kind of introduction to intuitive eating [00:24:00] without feeling overwhelming, or like you have to take a big commitment. Or have to take like a big financial commitment to kind of just see is this something that feels maybe even if it feels intangible, is this something that I can make a little more sense for my community around of like, what is this really look like?

[00:24:17] What could this look like for me? When deciding is this the right decision for them in this moment? 

[00:24:23] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. And so how was that writing process for you? I’m just curious, was it you know, easy because of the knowledge that you wanted to share and that information, or was it a little bit more challenging in terms of how you wanted to present it?

[00:24:39] Samantha Berkowitz: I mean, it definitely was challenging because I wanted it to be a beginner’s resource, I didn’t want it to be like super overwhelming even though I feel like I have so much information to share, but I wanted it to also be an actionable item within the book because I feel a lot of times when I turn to resources and it’s a really [00:25:00] great resource, but then at the end you’re like, okay, but what do I do now? Like, that was really great information. I learned a lot, but how do I take that first step? What do I do now with that? And so I really wanted it to provide information while also providing some action steps so that when someone is completing it or reading through it, it’s not overwhelming.

[00:25:23] And there you can also take a step after that without feeling bombarded with information, so I try to keep a little more short form style. 

[00:25:32] Desiree Stanley: That’s such a great point. Having actionable steps, because you’re right. I mean, reading and learning something is fantastic, but if you don’t know what to do next, or in a way to implement any of the knowledge that you’ve just gained, what purpose does it serve? Right. I mean, yes, knowledge is of course important, but action steps and knowing what to do next is even better. So that’s awesome. Well, Samantha, I always like to ask my [00:26:00] guests, you know, if there’s any books or podcasts that they have found beneficial or helpful, obviously you just shared your ebook, which is great.

[00:26:08] And I’ll include that information in the show notes, but is there anything else that you’d like to suggest that the listeners check out? 

[00:26:14] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah. I definitely like for personal reading, I read more thriller mysteries. I’m reading the Anonymous Girl right now, which is very good if you like that genre.

[00:26:25] But for more kind of nutrition related books, I really like Christy Harrison’s newest book called The Wellness Trap. And so she is a non diet, anti diet dietitian. And she originally put out a book called The Anti Diet which is also very good. But this one kind of focused more on how diet culture has kind of morphed into wellness culture and this like morality around health.

[00:26:50] And I think it’s a very interesting take, but also dives really deep. But in a way to just kind of shed some light on what like diet [00:27:00] culture has learned, we kind of don’t want to diet anymore. And so they’re like shape shifting into this more wellness era. And so I just think it’s, it’s definitely just really informative to kind of be able to make, when you’re making choices at the store, whether it be supplements or just different programs you’re joining, like to make sure that you’re kind of doing your due diligence of what you can to make sure, it’s not just diet culture in disguise, basically.

[00:27:26] Desiree Stanley: Hmm. Yeah. Excellent recommendations. I’ll include those for sure. So links to make it easy for people to find those. And so then is there any podcasts that you are listening to or that you’d like to suggest? 

[00:27:37] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah. The podcast that actually brought me into the intuitive eating space is called What the Actual Fork podcast, and it’s hosted by two non diet dieticians.

[00:27:50] I actually talk about this podcast a lot because I’m really passionate about their work because as a nutrition student, I was listening to it and I was like, Whoa, what is [00:28:00] this? No one’s ever talked to me about this, but it’s also a lot of nutrition and kind of health professionals listen to it, but also it’s really great for like Just the average person that’s wanting to learn more about body image or intuitive eating or they do a lot of stuff that’s trending let’s unpack this, and have a lot of great guests all the time so it’s really a widespread of information and can be a really great place to start if reading feels overwhelming or kind of

[00:28:27] going online to try and find somewhere to learn about this feels overwhelming. Their podcast is really great. 

[00:28:33] Desiree Stanley: Oh, wonderful. Thank you for suggesting that. It does sound fantastic. So I’ll include that there as well. And then lastly, Samantha, if people have questions for you, want to maybe dig into this a little bit more, how would they be able to reach out to you and ask you a bit more?

[00:28:53] Samantha Berkowitz: Yeah, totally. I do most of my content and my kind of online presence is on Instagram. And so [00:29:00] that’s at Sammib.Nutrition. And then my website is SammibNutrition.com. And so on my website you can find my ebook. I do have also a blog. So this is a more free resources and more information about working with me.

[00:29:14] One on one I work with clients doing basically this work in weekly sessions and I accept do self pay and insurance work to make sure it’s successful. 

[00:29:24] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. That’s excellent. Thank you so much for sharing those and I’ll include those as well. And again, Samantha, it’s just been wonderful. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation.

[00:29:34] I think that you have shared with us some fantastic things to really remember and consider and maybe look at a little bit differently. And I love that. So thank you so much. I appreciate your time and your knowledge. 

[00:29:49] Thank you. 

[00:29:50] Samantha Berkowitz: Thanks so much for having me today. 

[00:29:52] Desiree Stanley: We’ll talk more soon. 

—————————

POK_Dr Yael Dubin Podcast_09_27_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge Podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Dr. Yael Dubin. Welcome so much to the show. I’m so thrilled to have you. And I’m so looking forward to our conversation. Thank you for joining us. 

[00:00:18] Dr. Yael Dubin: Thank you so much for having me Desiree, I’m looking forward to our conversation too.

[00:00:22] Desiree Stanley: So I’m going to call you Dr. Dubin because I feel like you deserve that, that honor and that respect because you are, you know, multi lettered after your name, PhD, MD, PCC, you’re certified and trained in a number of formats. And I think that, that deserves some respect. So if it’s all right, I’ll call you Dr. Dubin. And so you’re going to be talking with us about your coaching and what you do now, which is really I think so important especially after having [00:01:00] just come out of the pandemic and that’s mindful dating and relationships and connection. And so why don’t you tell us, first of all, how you kind of found this path, what sort of led you in this direction?

[00:01:15] Dr. Yael Dubin: Well, what led me in this direction is I had a terrible divorce in 2003 and I. Decided I never wanted to get married again. And I was really good at dating to not have a good relationship. I mastered that for 16 years. And then I saw Schitt’s Creek. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it or any of your listeners are familiar with it, but I love that show.

[00:01:37] And I watched David and Patrick fall in love. And in particular, I watched them argue. That’s the scene where they had the big blow up fight. And that was the scene where I knew exactly the relationship I wanted. And all of a sudden, it was unacceptable that I should let the first spouse who is so horrible be my only spouse.

[00:01:59] [00:02:00] And I knew that I wanted to get married again. I also knew that despite all of my mental health training, my understanding of the change process, all of my spiritual practice and growth and development, I wasn’t going to be able to change my patterns by myself. I knew I needed a coach. So I hired a dating coach and I met the love of my life.

[00:02:24] And when he and I were early in our dating and he was telling me about what it was like for him to search for me for five years, it like blew my mind. Nobody ever tells women that there’s someone out there looking for you. We get told we need to be thinner. We need to be quieter. We need to be more timid.

[00:02:42] We need to be just right. We’re not too much this and not enough that. But actually someone’s out there looking for you. Just exactly who you are. Like you said, I have all the letters after my name. That was a barrier to finding a partner, right? I’m too educated, too smart, and I didn’t think [00:03:00] I’d find anybody.

[00:03:00] And he loves that. I have all the letters after my name and he laughs about it. He thinks it’s great. Then we were, you know, further along in our dating and he asked me what I would do with my life if money were no object. And I said, I would be like a life coach because I’d had some experience with that.

[00:03:17] In the early aughts, I like a life coach, but I’d be more spiritual about it. And I think I would like to be a dating coach. I think I would really like to help people find love the way we did, because I think I could do what my dating coach did. And I have a few things to add. And he said, if you know what you want to do with your life, why aren’t you doing it?

[00:03:34] He had a valid point. I got myself into a coaching program so that I could get the credential, really understand coaching. And here I am. 

[00:03:42] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. And so tell us the name of your coaching. And I know that you’re ISF and I C F. And so tell us what that means and what those are.

[00:03:55] Dr. Yael Dubin: Great. So my coaching business is Bechira Coaching and Bechira is [00:04:00] a word that comes from a Jewish spiritual practice and it means choice point. And when I opened my business, I really wanted to emphasize that when we’re, we go to coaching when we’re at a choice point in our life, when we know we need to make a change and we have to decide who we want to be in the next moment and what life we want to create for ourselves.

[00:04:18] And that word has so much meaning for me that I wanted to name my business Bechira. And I am an ICF credentialed coach. ICF is the International Coaching Federation, which means I have attended a coaching specific training program of 120 hours duration. I have well over 500 hours of experience as a coach, not counting all my other mental health experience and teaching and all the other things I’ve done.

[00:04:45] So I have that credential just in coaching. So I really get the coaching wheelhouse. I’m trained and I follow along with an ethical body of practice for coaches. I’m also an IFS level one trained coach and [00:05:00] IFS is internal family systems. It’s a model of the mind and they’re now training psychologists, therapists, social workers, and coaches to use this model because it’s very powerful for helping people create the best possible lives for themselves.

[00:05:16] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah. That’s excellent. And you did mention there that in kind of like your previous life, if you will, you, I believe were a psychotherapist. And so it sounds like this is just really an extension of what you were doing that and that’s helping people. And I think that’s fantastic. So I’d love to talk a little bit about what’s kind of, we’re seeing a lot of now and that’s this almost epidemic of loneliness and so talk with us a little bit about that. What do you see? 

[00:05:49] Dr. Yael Dubin: So, yeah, there is a loneliness epidemic and that really hit home during the pandemic, of course, as people were isolated and kind of stuck home. [00:06:00] But it’s even more than that. You know, it had been going on a little bit before the pandemic and it’s peaked in the pandemic, but we still have this problem of people feeling disconnected. A lot of that has to do with everywhere you go, people are really in their devices and they’re not really looking at each other, not really having those casual conversations. People are waiting longer to get married.

[00:06:22] Fewer and fewer people are engaged in a religious organization, which used to be sort of a weekly place to touch base with other human beings. We don’t have that as much anymore. And this is not a criticism of anybody who decides to affiliate or not affiliate. It’s just a place where people go that kept you in a group or in a community.

[00:06:43] And these things have sort of fallen away. People are getting married later, 50 percent of marriages end in divorce so some people are opting out all together. 

[00:06:53] Desiree Stanley: So then let’s talk a little bit about what you’re working with individuals and couples and [00:07:00] that’s kind of a mindful dating. 

[00:07:01] What does that mean exactly? Mindful dating. 

[00:07:04] Dr. Yael Dubin: Mindful dating really means putting yourself out there with intention. And the whole thing with mindful dating is really developing self leadership skills. And I draw from IFS heavily in this because self leadership is really about leading from your core self, which is a place inside each one of us.

[00:07:22] That is calm, connected, compassionate, courageous, and creative getting in touch with that part of yourself, really anchoring down in that. And finding a partner who is a good match for you, who meets your emotional needs. In order to do that, you need to sort of get clear about who you are, what you’re about.

[00:07:42] You need to clear away the old hurts and wounds from the past. You need to understand your emotional needs and create a compelling vision of your future. A future that you want to create with a partner in it. And then you’re sort of inviting someone into your [00:08:00] life to build a world together. And that It’s a fuller, more complete picture of what your whole life will look like.

[00:08:07] It’s not about finding someone who’s willing to put up with you. It’s about finding someone who wants to like be on the adventure of life together. 

[00:08:14] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Thank you for kind of going into a little bit more detail about that with us. And that totally makes sense. You’ve really got to, as you said, kind of clear out all the stuff from before.

[00:08:27] The hurts and the things that had happened, you don’t want to carry that forward. It’s not going to serve you, you know, in the future that you want to have. And finding those things that you need to, you know, work on yourself before going forward is key. And, and I want to talk a little bit now about the book that you wrote and you know, share that with us, because this is, I think one of the key things that you’re talking about right now and that’s, working on yourself to make those changes. 

[00:08:56] Dr. Yael Dubin: Yeah, absolutely. I do want to say one thing before I go into the book, which is [00:09:00] you asked about couples and for couples, I offer the path of partnership. A lot of us really we grow and release some of our earlier woundedness through forming a partnership with another person.

[00:09:11] And that’s what I offer to couples who really want to do that spiritual growth and personal development together. And then that’s where that comes in. And sometimes my mindful dating clients become my path of partnership clients as they’re having like the first healthy relationship in their life at the age of 40 or 50, which, which is harder than it sounds like it would be.

[00:09:31] It actually is like, it’s like a nail biter just to be healthy for the first time. So that that’s one thing. But the book is really yeah. Written with the transtheoretical change model in mind for those of you who care about that and really what that means is it’s founded in science of change and people who manage to change themselves successfully and it is essentially a how to guide that walks you through a change process that’s very [00:10:00] similar, not identical, but very similar to what I do when I coach clients in a program.

[00:10:05] I have a 12 week program and it walks you through really anchoring down and who you are, what you’re about. Getting clear on what you want to create for life, establishing an action plan, and then moving forward on it. So it’s very step by step user friendly. 

[00:10:21] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. And I think super helpful, right?

[00:10:24] Just clear path that people can follow to get them where they want to be. And so that’s awesome. And thank you for telling us a little bit more about working with couples because, yeah, I mean, first of all, I want to say, if, as you mentioned, when you’re in your maybe later thirties into forties, you’ve kind of established your life in a pattern and in a way that maybe you don’t want to compromise but yet you want a partner and how do you do that?

[00:10:50] And so that’s a super valid point and then talking a little bit about, you know, being in a couple, in a relationship, and maybe [00:11:00] after years. You maybe need to reconnect yourselves, right? 

[00:11:05] Dr. Yael Dubin: Yes, absolutely. You know, a lot of the times from my perspective, the things that bring a couple to the brink or to the edge or that are persistent sources of conflict are really an invitation to growth.

[00:11:18] And I know that sounds sort of trite. And it’s also true. 

[00:11:23] Desiree Stanley: No, it’s a good point because it’s like that fork in the road. And you could take one way and just say, All right, we’re done. Or, you know, use those things that may be occurring and work on them together to take the other path, which is to continue moving forward in your relationship together.

[00:11:41] So that’s awesome. 

[00:11:42] Dr. Yael Dubin: Yeah, and I really emphasize the partnership element of that, because as I’m listening to you, I’m really aware that somebody out there listening to us might think that one person can make the relationship work for two. And that really isn’t how it works. You really both have to be invested in that growth process together.[00:12:00] 

[00:12:00] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s for sure. Because if somebody has just checked out, it doesn’t matter how much work you do on yourself, it’s not going to happen. But there’s still something to be said for doing the work on yourself. 

[00:12:12] Dr. Yael Dubin: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:12:15] Desiree Stanley: Let’s talk a little bit now about something that you had shared was there’s maybe many things that people who are midlife singles.

[00:12:27] And I think you said there are two or three things that, that they’re often doing that is a mistake. That they’re kind of making. And so what are those things and maybe how can they change course? 

[00:12:40] Dr. Yael Dubin: Thank you so much for asking about that. The main three things I see, I will call them letting dragons lead, taking a shotgun approach, and poor planning.

[00:12:50] And letting dragons lead is like when you let all of your bad experiences or any things you hear in the media or what your friends are telling you, [00:13:00] hijack you, blend with you, and keep you from really being emotionally available, keep you from setting boundaries because actually, believe it or not, setting boundaries as part of being emotionally available and getting sort of focused on the one or the one that got away or compromising yourself in a way so that you can have someone to stick with you. Taking a shotgun approach is, it’s when you don’t really know what you’re aiming for so you just scatter it all out, you know, I’ll hit something and you might hit something, but it might not be what you really want to hit. That that ends up being a mistake. And usually there’s a lot of regret in hindsight on that. And poor planning is really not taking the long view, doing things like starting out as friends, dating sporadically because you’re not clear on what you want.

[00:13:47] You’re not sure what you’re aiming for. You just, you don’t know how to assess if somebody is a good fit for you or not. Yeah, and so those are that those are the big three that I’m really seeing. 

[00:13:58] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and that makes [00:14:00] sense. I mean, absolutely. I love that concept of the the dragon and these are these things that they’re like in charge, they’re out front, and it’s just kind of making a huge mess.

[00:14:11] And in the shotgun. Oh my gosh, that’s so it’s so true. You’ve got this target, but you’re just like, woo, you’re all over the place. That’s not going to work for you either. So I love those. Totally awesome. So then let’s talk about how those things are really getting in the way and what to do about it.

[00:14:29] Dr. Yael Dubin: Excellent. Yeah. So how these things get in the way is when you’re letting your dragons lead. Another way to look at that is through the internal family systems model that’s letting a part of you lead. That’s letting your avoidant part lead or your anxious part lead or your people pleaser lead or your protective bitter part lead.

[00:14:48] And those parts they don’t really make good choices and they’re not great at relationships and they tend to bring out the worst in other people and tend to get you exactly the opposite of what you’re looking for. [00:15:00] And like I said, when you take a shotgun approach, who knows what you’re going to hit.

[00:15:03] It might be a keeper, it might not be. And you might not have a tag for that elk, you know, it just might not be the thing you want to bring home. And when you don’t plan really, what I see is people get in relationships that they later regret. They find themselves compromising a little bit at a time until five years down the road, they hate this person, they hate their life, and they don’t know what they’re doing together, or they get really attached to somebody who’s unhealthy for them because they’ve allowed themselves to spend time with someone thinking, in scarcity mentality, there’s no one there for them. They don’t even know what they want to create anyway. So what’s the big deal? And then they’re in a really unsatisfying situation for them. 

[00:15:45] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that sounds like just absolute settle mode. And I’m not going to take a risk and try to really go for what I want.

[00:15:53] This is just kind of the easy and I can just deal with this. And really, is that how you want to live your life? 

[00:15:59] Dr. Yael Dubin: Yeah. And [00:16:00] nobody does and it eventually will fail. So that’s really the end result is all the things you wanted to avoid end up happening anyway. 

[00:16:07] Desiree Stanley: Then let’s talk about as you mentioned earlier, the 12 week program that you offer and, you know, kind of what are some of the things that you work with the individuals and couples on in the program.

[00:16:18] Dr. Yael Dubin: So what I work with people on and and this really addresses those three problems that we talked about earlier for dating, but I help people develop self leadership skills because dragons can lead when you’re married and different parts of you can hijack you or take over in that moment. That’s the thing everybody everybody has parts everybody has inner dragons.

[00:16:36] And what we really want to do is, really orient yourself towards your values and your visions and goals for your life, that’s your compass. Lean on your strengths. That’s your walking stick through life. Get a lot of self compassion and befriend your dragons so that they will let self energy lead. Your dragons are always going to be with you, but they don’t always have to run the show.

[00:16:59] So we [00:17:00] really get self that, that spacious, beautiful, calm, connected. One that’s inside running the show and life goes way better that way and it’s better between couples and then we just get super clear and this clarity process is the middle third of the program and it’s mind blowing what comes out of this.

[00:17:19] People identify their patterns and relationships, patterns that have led them to believe certain things about themselves or other people and they finally can close the book. On all that pain and they’re super clear about what they need emotionally and how to ask for it and throughout the whole process, but especially towards the end, when we have that clarity, we start developing some strategies and for dating and couples. It’s going to look a little bit different for dating. What you’re going to do is we’re going to make a solid profile, get you a really step by step, date by date action plans, you know, every day, every week, [00:18:00] every month, what you’re going to do to meet that person that’s going to be wonderful for you. And if you’re in a couple, it’s similar.

[00:18:07] It’s not exactly the same, but you still have weekly things that you’re going to do and daily things you’re going to do. And we learn about how to repair conflict because conflict happens. So we learn all those things that couples are going to need to do to continue getting to know each other their whole long lives.

[00:18:23] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that sounds amazing. Thank you for going into detail about that. And I love that you’re setting up the individual to really get where they want to go and that person who’s going to be right for them and, you know, in a way, complete them, but also be that partner. That they’re looking for in the future.

[00:18:46] That’s awesome. And for the couples as well, that they’ve got things that they need to work on and absolutely there’s conflict and ways that you deal with conflict that maybe aren’t healthy and, you know, getting to learn [00:19:00] how to handle those things in a more healthy manner is, is only for the best.

[00:19:04] So that’s amazing. 

[00:19:06] Dr. Yael Dubin: I just wanted to add that when you talk about conflict in couples, one of the coolest things that I’m discovering in this amazing healthy relationship I have is that when you do the repair work in a couple, relationships are the only thing that actually gets stronger after they’ve broken a little and you repair them.

[00:19:23] It’s amazing. And you get closer, you get to know each other better. Your partner gets to know you. And that’s why I’m starting to call it the path of partnership as a spiritual path. It’s really incredible. 

[00:19:35] Desiree Stanley: I love that. And you mentioned a little bit, you’re talking about for the singles that developing like profiles, and I’m assuming you’re talking about sort of dating profiles.

[00:19:47] And that leads me to a question about because we are really in the age of, of online dating and social media. What suggestions you have for people who want to [00:20:00] really develop and maintain genuine relationships. 

[00:20:04] Dr. Yael Dubin: So my main suggestion is to not worry so much about where you meet someone or how you meet them, but really put the attention on how you navigate the relationship after that.

[00:20:15] I have clients who meet online, I have clients who meet in a dance class or an improv class or pottery class and they meet at an event. They meet in all sorts of ways, but really what matters is how you navigate the initial meetings, really getting to know that person in a substantial way.

[00:20:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s super important, right? Not just the surface level. 

[00:20:39] Dr. Yael Dubin: Yeah. Yeah. Like the relationship really is as meaningful as you make it. And you, and in order for it to be authentic, you have to show up in an authentic place. And that’s what I tell all of my clients. And it’s super hard to get your head around because all the dating advice tells you how to act.

[00:20:54] Just be you on a first date. 

[00:20:56] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, because ultimately, [00:21:00] you can’t sustain that act forever. And if somebody, discovers who you really are, you know, and this is probably why people often do that, right? Because the fear of, will, they really like how I am. 

[00:21:14] Dr. Yael Dubin: It’s 100 percent why people do that, and they just end up making a self fulfilling prophecy.

[00:21:18] Like I said before, all the things you want to avoid are all the things you create when you let your dragons lead. And it’s your dragons that tell you you’re not lovable just the way you are. And I’m 100 percent telling you, if you’re within the sound of my voice, and you want love, It’s for you and there’s someone looking for just exactly who you are, just you.

[00:21:38] And if you don’t go out and be you, they can’t find you. 

[00:21:42] Desiree Stanley: I love that. Yeah. A hundred percent. So then let’s change gears a little bit and let’s talk about maybe some more strategies that people can use as they are. kind of navigating this, you know, dating, [00:22:00] because there’s going to be disappointments, there’s going to be rejections. What are some things that you can suggest? 

[00:22:06] Dr. Yael Dubin: So that, you know, this is an excellent, excellent question. And one of the the first thing I start with, with people, and it sounds so simple, And it’s super meaningful as a mindfulness practice to really regulate your body. Rejection is a big deal.

[00:22:19] It’s not a small thing. Rejection triggers a lot of fear in our bodies. We’re social animals. Rejection is like a death sentence. Physiologically. It’s not really a death sentence, but our body thinks it is. So really want to get into some mindfulness practices and some ways to regulate your physiology. That’s the first thing.

[00:22:38] And you’re really going to want to befriend your dragons. You really want to get to know all of the parts inside you, what they believe and make friends with them and let them know that actually you’re here and you’re captaining the ship. Now you’re leading, you’re leading the expedition. It’s all okay.

[00:22:55] No matter what happens, you’re here for it. 

[00:22:57] Desiree Stanley: Oh, excellent advice. I love [00:23:00] it. And the idea of knowing that those dragons were there to maybe protect you and are trying to protect you. And so by saying like, I, I see you, I know what you’re trying to do. And I thank you. I’m going to lead now.

[00:23:17] I love that advice. That’s awesome. 

[00:23:19] Dr. Yael Dubin: Yeah. And you know, when you make that kind of good connection with them, sometimes you’ll listen to your dragon and you’ll say, yep, you’re right. This one’s not for me. 

[00:23:27] Desiree Stanley: Good stuff. Love it. Well, then let’s talk A little bit more about your book. I I’d like to get into a little bit more detail and have you share what, you know, if the listeners were to go check it out, what would they find?

[00:23:41] Dr. Yael Dubin: Wonderful question. So the title of the book is Your Personality and You: A Workbook, and it is lessons to understand your personality and who you want to be yourself and who you want to be. So that’s. That’s the book and what you’re going to find in that book is that I really use[00:24:00] if you’re anyone out there is familiar with Joseph Campbell’s hero story, The Hero Story, what you find is that I’ve overlaid the hero’s journey onto the change process.

[00:24:13] So we’re looking at your life as your story of you, the story you’re telling yourself of yourself. And. Giving you an opportunity to rewrite the story, recognizing that your journey of change is going to have all the elements in it that the hero’s journey has. You’re going to depart your known ways, it’s going to be scary, you’ll have a guide, you’ll have challenges, and then you will come back to a new life with strength and wisdom.

[00:24:44] And treasure to share that you didn’t have before. 

[00:24:47] Desiree Stanley: It sounds amazing. And of course, I’ll include the link to the information for the book in the show notes so that the listeners can easily find that. That’s fantastic. And, and you talked about the [00:25:00] hero’s journey. And so if there’s, you know, tell us a little bit more about books that you have found beneficial or influential for yourself that you think would be helpful for the listeners.

[00:25:11] Dr. Yael Dubin: Oh, that’s I have a list of five that I tell everybody about. No Bad Parts by Dick Schwartz is a great book. It’s a great introduction to Internal Family Systems. If you are part of a partnership or want to be also by Dick Schwartz is You Are The One You’ve Been Waiting For excellent book. I recommend the book Attached by Amir Levine.

[00:25:32] If you want to understand some of your dragons where they come from and how they lead you to behave. They look at that through the lens of attachment and adult attachment. The book Mindset by Carol Dweck really helps you understand the importance of a growth mindset and different ways that this can be used in practical application in work, in relationships, and in education.

[00:25:56] And I have to look at my shelf. For a second to see what other [00:26:00] book Oh, Changing For Good is about the change process and Altered Traits is about mindfulness. There’s so many books that have been influential for me. You might notice I have a few back here and then I have a whole other wall. Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. 

[00:26:14] Desiree Stanley: Oh, fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing those. And yes, you do have books on books on books and I love it. And that just really speaks to what we were talking about before we started. And that’s your love of learning and on all of the training and all of the things that you have done to really prepare you for being the best at what you do to help others and let’s talk a little bit about that because, you know, we touched on the fact that, you were trained and you were a psychotherapist, you mentioned also being an educator and you’ve done all of the additional training with ICF. So let’s talk a little bit more about that and what it is about learning that you love so much. 

[00:26:56] Dr. Yael Dubin: Wow, it’s hard to say. I just I love learning about [00:27:00] anything. And I do really feel it’s enlivening for me just to learn. And when the learning curve flattened at a job, I was pretty done with the job.

[00:27:08] So learning is just what I love doing. It’s just a passion of mine. And if I do a Clifton Strengths Finder, learning is in the top five. So it’s just a thing. I’m good at it. I enjoy it. That will just be a permanent feature of my personality forever. But slash and everything I learn brings me a different vantage point or a different way of seeing the world.

[00:27:31] And when I change that vantage point and I see things differently, then usually there’s something else I want to learn or study. So when I was a psychiatrist, I noticed that I spent a lot of time talking to clients about really simple ways to manage their brain chemistry. I was telling everybody the same things and all of the different self care things they should do, but it seemed like we’re living on a treadmill that every year gets turned up a little faster and people [00:28:00] were so busy working. They didn’t have time for self care. They didn’t have time to connect with kids or family or any of the things that are nourishing for them. And they spent a lot of time, at the time, CSI was the big thing.

[00:28:12] Doom scrolling is what people do now, but really consuming a lot of media that brings you down and makes you anxious. I then I took a coaching class because I thought, well, how cool I could get everybody in a room and tell them all at once. That would be nice instead of telling everybody privately all day long.

[00:28:28] And I got really curious about the connection between how we’re living in a capitalist society with inflation, just being a permanent feature and our unsustainable way of living. So I started investigating sustainable communities program. I got into that program. And then I was like, Oh, let me learn about this other thing.

[00:28:46] I’m a very spiritually oriented person. Let me go to seminary and learn about congregation based community organizing. And then that led me to a doctoral program. So it’s just, it’s like one step after the other. And then, like I said, my [00:29:00] husband when we were just dating, he asked me what I wanted to do and it was still coaching.

[00:29:03] I love coaching. It’s very strengths based. It’s very future oriented. I’m not sitting there looking for what’s wrong with people anymore. I’m just helping them build on their strengths to a better future. 

[00:29:14] Desiree Stanley: That’s amazing. And really, ultimately, everything that you’ve done has always been about helping people in in different ways, but always about helping people. And so that’s fantastic. Love it. 

[00:29:29] Dr. Yael Dubin: Thank you. Yeah, it is. I think this is really if I have a purpose, it’s to help everybody that I can live from the best part of themselves and bring that out into the world. And if you look at what’s going on in the world, we really need the best from everybody. Times are tough out there.

[00:29:48] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And it can be very easy to, like you said, doom scroll or watch things that are very negative, which, you know, in turn just repeat cycles of negativity in your own head. [00:30:00] And that’s not helpful for you or anyone else. And so absolutely, being the best that you can be is going to help everyone around you.

[00:30:10] Well, let’s, wrap things up at this point. And I mean, I so enjoyed our conversation and we could dig into this for probably many, many hours, but we discussed some books that were super helpful and I’ll include those in the show notes. Let’s talk about if you enjoy listening to podcasts, if there’s any podcasts you’d like to suggest that the listeners check out, that could be helpful.

[00:30:36] Dr. Yael Dubin: Well, I listened to some podcasts. I think obviously your podcast is fantastic and people should be checking it out. I listen to a couple right now on more mindset oriented things. And I’m trying to think so Authentic Conversion. I’m listening to Nicole Spencer’s podcast and I listened to a podcast [00:31:00] called Intimate Judaism, which is about intimate relationships in a Jewish context.

[00:31:04] I’m trying to think that those are really the most prominent ones on my list right now. Things that uplift me. 

[00:31:12] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. That’s excellent. Great suggestions for sure and I’ll include those as well. I always encourage listeners to find different things that make sense for what they need at the time that they’re in.

[00:31:25] And so I love those different suggestions. So thank you for sharing them. And lastly, Dr. Dubin, I would so love it if you would share if people have questions and, you know, want to reach out to you to maybe discuss your program, discuss, maybe questions that they might have about the dating cycle that they’re in, how would they be able to reach you?

[00:31:48] Dr. Yael Dubin: I will give you my link tree link. They can access up some freebies there. They can get into my podcast. They can get into my YouTube channel. They can get on my mailing list and they can always [00:32:00] email me at yael@bahiracoaching.com. And I do offer a really quick meet and greet for free, and we could just get acquainted.

[00:32:08] And then kind of see where we go from there. 

[00:32:11] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I’ll include all that information in the show notes as well. Thank you again, Dr. Dubin. I appreciate your time and your knowledge, which is extensive. And thank you for sharing that with us in this time.

[00:32:28] I do appreciate it. 

[00:32:30] Dr. Yael Dubin: I appreciate you having me on so much. Thank you so much, Desiree. 

[00:32:33] Desiree Stanley: All right. We’ll talk more soon. 

_________________________

POK_Dr Priyanka Venugopal_09_20_2023

[00:00:07] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And I’m so honored to have as the guest today, Dr. Priyanka Venugopal. Welcome to the show. I am delighted that you’re with us today. 

[00:00:21] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Thank you so much. Oh, Desiree. I’m so glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:27] Desiree Stanley: I am again, thrilled to have you on the show. You’re going to be sharing with us your journey as an OB GYN that led you into developing the Unstoppable Mom Brain and so I want to have you just jump right in and tell us that’s a pretty big transition. And so let’s just start with what led you to become a OB GYN and then where did that transition happen and take it away?

[00:00:56] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Yeah, absolutely. This is, it is a kind of an interesting story to go [00:01:00] from being a board certified physician to now being an entrepreneur and a coach for working moms. So I’m so glad I get to share my story and maybe plant a seed of possibility and inspiration for someone that is listening to this.

[00:01:12] My story actually is a little bit, I think it’s, it’s common. I have always been I’ve always identified as a overachiever or maybe the high achiever that girl kind of at the front of the class raising her hand like I know the answer pick on me and I was always that kid that really wanted the A, that wanted to do well that wanted to please the adult that I was with and I think that that was where I really got my sense of satisfaction and I felt proud when I felt like I got some external sources of validation, basically an A plus or a gold star or a pat on the head also sufficed. And I would say for a very long time in my younger years, I didn’t know that I wanted to be an OBGYN specifically. I just knew that my parents had said again, as like a young child, like you want to go to graduate school.

[00:01:57] That was the seed they planted in my mind [00:02:00] that you want to go to graduate school. And that meant medical school or law school and that was kind of it. It was like the beginning and end. And I think as a young person, I never really explored other avenues. I just had in my mind the voice of my parents, which is like medical school or law school, this is what we’re going to do.

[00:02:16] And, you know, along the way, I think I’d never was one of those kids that knew that she wanted to be a doctor from age six. Like they have those kids that, you know, pretend to play dress up as doctors. That was just not me, but I kind of felt like that was the only path forward that I saw this is the way of accomplishment.

[00:02:34] This is what my parents think is the best thing. And it felt like, okay, so I just went along for the ride. And I will say that I got very lucky along the way, because while I didn’t necessarily feel inspired to become a physician in my medical training as a med student, and then, in clerkship, I discovered the field of OBGYN, which is focusing on women’s health from, you know, early, your early young teenage [00:03:00] years all the way through until your eldest years, right?

[00:03:02] Until like post menopause and into like your nineties and even early one hundreds. And I think that somehow the Universe was smiling on me when I got bit by the bug of serving women. And it just was a field that I mean, I get goosebumps just remembering that time in my third year of medical school where I just was like, this is it.

[00:03:22] I’m so glad that I found this field because it hits all of the things that I want to do with my life, which is serve women. And I would say that along the way, this was when I met my husband and this back 2000, early, mid 2000s. We got married and I started medical school and over the years, I would say, about over 10 years.

[00:03:42] I gained a little over 60 pounds just through medical school and residency and having baby number one and then attending life and baby number two. And life kept getting in the way for me to feel good in my body because I was so used to prioritizing everyone and everything else, my patients, my family, my [00:04:00] kids, my job, everything, the laundry took priority over me really, really prioritizing my dream goal. And it was a few years ago, but I think it was in 2019. My second child, my daughter was six months old and I was driving to work pumping while driving, you know, that moment is like pumping while driving. I remember thinking, I was a little over 200 pounds and I just felt so frustrated.

[00:04:23] Like here I am. I don’t think I’m eating that bad and I just can’t lose the weight. I have this good on paper life and yet I’m feeling so frustrated and so stuck. And I’m supposed to be a smart person. I’m a physician and I cannot solve this weight loss problem. And that was when I stumbled onto a podcast like this.

[00:04:42] And I just discovered coaching. I discovered this whole world that I did not know was available for me when it comes to weight loss, because I tried every other strategy. And that was when I went down the coaching rabbit hole. I lost all of the weight without counting a point or calorie or hitting the gym [00:05:00] excessively.

[00:05:01] And it led me to become a coach, which is now I’m here talking to you. 

[00:05:05] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think that what you just shared speaks to so many people because we have been in that place in a number of ways. Either it’s going for that validation, following what path our parents say we need to take, you know, wanting that gold star, that validation, and then just that day to day life that gets so beyond us like we kind of lose ourselves and I think that really speaks to a problem that many women have.

[00:05:38] And so thank you so much for sharing that and just reminding us that we’re not alone in those struggles and challenges. So I want to talk a little bit about what you said in that you had gained a lot of weight. You couldn’t figure out how do I lose this weight as a doctor? You know, you’d think I should know how to do this.

[00:05:59] And so what [00:06:00] was it, what was the strategies that you begun incorporating that made the difference for you? 

[00:06:06] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Yeah, I think that that’s the million dollar question that I felt like for a long time that I was just missing something that everyone else is seeming to figure it out or like I would look at, you know, friends and colleagues who would use Myfitnesspal or Weight Watchers and they would just lose the weight and seemingly keep it off. I felt like I would try all of those things. And yes, they would all work until they stopped working. Basically until I stopped working it, and I used to think it must be me, you know, like maybe I’m just missing something. I don’t know, I don’t have the motivation. I don’t have the, like, where is it for me?

[00:06:38] And I think the, the biggest realization that I had was no amount of planning. And I was, I mean, brilliant at planning and spreadsheets. And if you could see the color coded planners that I had, I had every strategy down to a science, but no amount of strategizing or planning was able to solve the [00:07:00] real reason that I was ever at 200 pounds.

[00:07:03] I had to uncover that calorie counting and counting all my points and hitting the gym six days a week. While it worked wasn’t solving the real problem, which is why was I ever eating when I wasn’t hungry? That was ultimately the question that I had to come to is I’m sitting here and I’m, you know, my kids are in bed.

[00:07:22] I’ve had a tough day at the hospital. Maybe I’ve been up all night with a, with a delivery and I plopped down. Why am I grabbing food when my body’s not hungry? And that was a question that I had never. No strategy had asked me to answer like calories and points and macros and every exercise plan is not actually asking you to answer That one question is why am I eating when I’m not hungry?

[00:07:43] And I think that that was actually the gateway It’s like if I think about how I lost the weight, it’s almost like a door. I had to see this door open, which is oh I’ve really been eating in small ways. Like I wasn’t binging in massive quantities. It was [00:08:00] little moments that I’m like, wow, if I paid attention, I was actually eating often little bits here and there when I wasn’t actually hungry.

[00:08:08] And when I started to dive below the surface of why am I doing that? Oh, it’s because I have this life stress. And I just want a distraction. It’s because I’m bored. It’s because I have this issue with my husband or we had a fight or my kid is annoying me and my kid is just not being the way that I want him to be.

[00:08:24] I used to use food as medicine to numb me from my life stresses. My life boredoms, even it was my only way of celebrating, like, let’s go out to dinner to celebrate. So food had become both my way of celebrating, but it had also become a medicine to numb my, my life’s woes. And I think seeing that I had been using food as a crutch was kind of the first step of me opening a door.

[00:08:50] And really exploring if I wasn’t going to use food anymore, I wonder how I might solve this problem. And I think that that’s kind of where coaching became so pivotal and really a [00:09:00] stepping stone for me to lose the weight. 

[00:09:02] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh, that’s amazing. I, again, I feel like you are just hitting so many points and struggles that women have and that, you know, we get stressed or we get tired, or we are, like you said, trying to maybe avoid.

[00:09:18] A feeling or a stressor or a situation and we just eat when we’re not hungry. And I have found myself in that position as well. And, you know, standing at the pantry, looking at the food and like, I know I’m not hungry, but you know, grabbing some popcorn or whatever anyway, and instead of asking, like you said, why.

[00:09:38] Why do I want to do this? Why is this happening? You know, exploring how am I feeling right now? And it sounds like that was the key for you. And so let’s talk about for those people who are the, the ones who are working out all the time and aren’t seeing any progress, what are some of the things they can do to begin asking themselves [00:10:00] that question and then answering it? And then what? 

[00:10:03] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Right. And then what, this is such a good question. So like, let’s just get into the strategy, right? So what do you do to lose weight? And I, I will shout this from the rooftops. I think that there’s two very effective ways of really losing weight and that is to become a fat burner. No amount of calorie counting is going to make you a fat burner.

[00:10:23] You can eat a thousand calories a day or be in a calorie deficit, but if you’re not eating the right types of foods, in your calorie deficit, you’re not going to be a fat burner. So you’ll, you’ll feel like this. If you find yourself counting every point in calorie and you’re in this quote unquote deficit, but you feel like weight loss still feels like a struggle.

[00:10:40] It’s likely because you’re not a fat burner. So there’s two ways of becoming a fat burner. The first way is to lower your insulin levels. And so the reason that that’s so important is because insulin is a fat storage hormone. Every time we eat any food, but anytime we eat food, specifically flour and sugar, our [00:11:00] insulin is spiked.

[00:11:01] And if this is a fat storage hormone, just think about how many times a day you’re snacking. You’re grabbing that, like the granola bar. You’re grabbing, nuts. You’re grabbing some food when you’re not hungry. Your insulin levels are being spiked all day. And as that happens, there’s other hormones in fat storage pathways that drive your body to just store that food as fat.

[00:11:19] So the very first strategy is really teaching your body how to burn her fat by lowering insulin levels. The second strategy that is very effective is growing muscle mass. So that’s strength training, especially for women that are 35 and older, you’re losing muscle mass without even realizing it year after year, just by, you know, the nature of our life.

[00:11:39] As we get older, our hormones are changing and you are going to start losing muscle mass and muscle is a fat burner. So the more you build muscle, the more you will burn fat. What I will say, and I say this with a caveat, I’m sharing these two strategies, but what I will say, the biggest mistake that high achievers make is we think we have to do all of it.

[00:11:57] Okay. So this is my perfectionist. If [00:12:00] you’re the overachiever listening to this, this will be you. You’ll know this is you if you, and I know, cause I used to do this. I’m like, I have to perfectly eat no flour, no sugar, hit the gym six days a week. Like you overload your plan. And that’s the number one mistake that the overachiever will make is you think you have to do all of it to hit your goal weight.

[00:12:18] And one of the strategies that I teach my clients in the Unstoppable Group is how do you make simple, small tweaks, do one thing simply, but start doing it consistently. And then you can move on to the next thing. So master one thing at a time. And I think this is again, really hard for the overachiever because you wanted results yesterday.

[00:12:38] So it’s like, no, no, no. More is better. And you know, I’m here to say more is just more sometimes. More is more is the reason you quit because it gets too much. So I like to recommend starting with dialing in nutrition, knowing that you can eat in a way you truly love that also lowers your insulin levels.

[00:12:56] It teaches your body to burn fat. And when you’ve mastered that, then you [00:13:00] start incorporating strength training. Then you start incorporating, like, let’s build in the protein. Let’s build in more muscle. Because you first have to change your relationship with food and how you eat. So your workouts are going to be effective when you get to them.

[00:13:12] And I, I like to share my story because I lost all the weight without hitting the gym. And I think that was so important because I used to think I had to do it all, but that was what kept me stuck. 

[00:13:21] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Excellent points. There are so many great things. I want to talk about the point that you made about building muscle.

[00:13:30] And again, because as we do age and our hormones are changing, this is all happening kind of behind the scenes. It’s just like, you know, happening. And how is that muscle building, like really helping us to get that fire burning on that fat. What is, what is going 

[00:13:48] on there? 

[00:13:49] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Right. So the way that muscle, the way that I like to think about describing this is there’s different types of tissue in our body and muscle requires ATP, which is a [00:14:00] form of energy that it requires to function. So every time you move, if you think about like, you know, flexing your bicep or doing like a bicep curl, every time you are building that muscle, it’s requiring and asking for energy to grow. And so the beauty of muscle is the more that you grow muscle, the more that you build muscle, the more energy it’s going to require.

[00:14:21] Which means if you’re eating in a way that’s nutritionally dialed in, it’s going to use your fat to burn to build, to build and grow, which is why it can be such a useful tool when you have your nutrition dialed in, when you become a fat burner, as your muscle grows, it’s going to need energy and it’ll take it from fat, which is pretty amazing.

[00:14:41] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So it sounds like you do really need to start with the nutrition aspect of it first, get that kind of dialed in, as you said, and then really focus on how do I build muscle mass so that then really it’s torching that, right? So starting [00:15:00] with the nutrition is kind of key. It sounds like, and then going from there.

[00:15:04] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: That’s my experience. And I say that with a caveat again, because I feel like I know that sometimes the high achievers like what’s the perfect way of doing it. I hear you like asking, like, what’s the perfect way. And I always want to reflect that back to my clients is what do you think is your perfect way?

[00:15:21] For some people who really feel like maybe their thoughts about how they eat. don’t require that much effort. They can make a couple of small tweaks. Then maybe for you, you can do both at the same time. But if you know you have a tendency of being someone that tries to overdo the action plan and you believe more is better and you find yourself burning out and then quitting, you have to know yourself better.

[00:15:43] And in those situations, which I find most high achievers are in, I recommend starting with the nutrition, changing your relationship with how you eat. So you feel. Taken care of, not deprived or restricted in how you eat. You don’t have to just eat like chicken breasts and canned green beans. Like you can truly [00:16:00] love the way you eat and lose weight at the same time.

[00:16:01] It’s a core tenant of what I teach. Once you get to that point, imagine how it would feel for you to then love working out. Not working out because you have to, but working out because you truly love it. You’re so connected with your body and how you’re treating yourself that you think of it as one more thing you want to do, not one more thing you have to do.

[00:16:22] And I, I often think about that because if you want to maintain that for the next 50 years, you have to want it. If you don’t want it, you’re going to quit it. You’re going to abandon it, or, you know, you’re going to cheat on it is the way that I like to think about that. 

[00:16:34] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s awesome. Thank you for going into a little bit more detail on that.

[00:16:38] And really, again, , it’s looking at what you feel like you can sustain, right. And I love that you pointed out making small changes because small changes lead to big wins. And it’s a little bit more like not overwhelming, so it’s not feeling like I can’t handle this. I can’t keep this up because it’s so small [00:17:00] that it’s easily doable so I love that you shared that.

[00:17:03] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Yeah. And I really think about like a lot of the, the concepts and tools that I teach in the Unstoppable Group. I think about them as like back pocket body tools, back pocket body tools. It’s a concept that I think about as the high achiever should feel like you can lose weight anywhere you are in the world, you could be on the most luxurious vacation on the other side of the world, or you could be in the middle of your busiest work week where life curveballs are coming at you, your kid is bothering you, your partner is bothering you, life and work, and it’s all piling up.

[00:17:35] I want high achievers to know that when you learn simple, sustainable skills and tools. You should feel like you have them in your back pocket all the time. And I think what I have found in my own experience and what I see with, with my clients is usually what happens when weight loss feels hard. When we overload our action plan, we think we have to do it all and do it perfectly.

[00:17:56] The moment life gets hard, which by the way, it will, [00:18:00] because that’s just the nature of our life. The first thing that goes for the high achieving working mom is her body goal. The first thing that we quit, the first thing that we put off to the side, I’ll deal with it tomorrow is our personal body goals.

[00:18:11] And so what would it be like to know that it was possible to have this in your back pocket all the time, that it could be small and simple. And also like life could just keep happening and you don’t have to sacrifice your dream goals to like deal with every life obstacle that comes our way.

[00:18:27] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such a great point too, because we can’t take care of other people if we don’t take care of ourselves. And you’re right. The very first thing that we do is we just like forget everything that I’m doing and focus on everybody else and everything else that has to be done. And really that’s kind of the opposite of how it should be.

[00:18:47] We need to remember, we’ve got to take care of ourselves so we can take care of others. And so thank you for reiterating that, you know, a hundred percent. I love it. 

[00:18:57] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: This is actually like, I actually think of this as like a [00:19:00] sneaky procrastination tactic that high achievers have as we tell ourselves, like when life gets easy, when my kids get just a little bit older, when like my, for my son, like when he starts getting onto the bus easily, when, when, when, I mean, this is what I told myself with medical school, when medical school is over, then I’ll focus on myself when residency is over, when my kids are older, when life gets easier.

[00:19:20] And all that happened is over 10 years, I gained 60 pounds. So I think that, you know, we have this idea of when life gets easier, then I’ll focus on myself. But like, you know, friends, we’ve worked so hard to be right here. What would it be like if we took care of ourselves along the way and life could just keep happening and I, I be honest, like I think that it requires prioritizing and shuffling things around.

[00:19:45] I ask my clients to shuffle things around, to prioritize themselves. And what’s so fascinating is when you do this, you level up how you show up at work, as a mom, like you show up better in every other area when you are better taken care of. But it means [00:20:00] starting now, not when life gets easier.

[00:20:02] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Such a great point. We do that with so much, when this happens, then I’ll do that. And you’re right. It is that sneaky procrastination. That is a way for us to not have to do the thing that we need to do. And that’s so, I think accurate. So thank you for pointing that out. I love it. Well, let’s talk a little bit about kind of switching gears, your podcast, which you’ve mentioned a couple of times, tell us about how you decided to launch that and what the purposes of the show and what you talk about on the show.

[00:20:37] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Yeah. Back in 2019, this is when I was full practice OBGYN. I had no thoughts about leaving my physician life to become an entrepreneur. That was never an intention of mine, but I really did feel so compelled and called to become a certified life coach because of the impact it had on my own life.

[00:20:55] Really for me, a lot of my journey into entrepreneurship started just as me getting certified and really [00:21:00] wanting to dive deeper into the world of coaching and become more of an expert at understanding my brain and my thoughts and my perspectives and a lot of my old beliefs. And along the way, I think probably, and I didn’t know this at the time, but I think the moment that I became a physician, I’ve always been a coach at heart and I’ve always been a little coachy as a physician.

[00:21:22] And I think that it just was a very natural evolution for me, I started coaching one or two people and I just saw the impact that it had on their life, not just in the weight loss that they were experiencing, but as moms in their productivity and how they felt as these ambitious women who are so smart, but like pressure was following them around.

[00:21:42] It’s like the impact that I saw for them was deeply gratifying for me. And I think that that was when I started to play with the idea, like, what would it be like for me to not be a physician and for me to do this like as a full time as my full time work, like, what would that even be like? And that was scary [00:22:00] because I had worked very hard.

[00:22:01] I had gone through a lot of years of training to become a physician, but I also knew that this was really calling to me. And so that was when I started The Unstoppable Mom Brain, which really I think of it as like my way of like a love note to what I wanted to put out in the Universe was that working mom and busy working moms can really do the work of understanding themselves and having their own backs and truly feel unstoppable, but they have to get on board with their brain first. And I think that that’s really my, my kind of transition into entrepreneurship. I had to trust that I wasn’t running away from my physician life.

[00:22:38] I loved being an OBGYN. I just love this more. And if I ever missed it, which there are times that I do miss parts of being a physician that I would find a way back. I had to trust that I could. If I forgot a skill, I would learn it again, but this just called me more, and I think in my journey in the Unstoppable Mom Brain, I would say I was probably in my business a year or two, and that was when [00:23:00] I realized that I really wanted my story to be in the ears of, of more working moms, and that was where the podcast was born.

[00:23:08] Desiree Stanley: I love it. And so on the show, then what kind of topics are you covering and how are you serving the listeners? Because it sounds like from your heart, you really do want to help as many people as possible, whether it was through being a OBGYN or now as a coach. And I love that you pointed out, cause really it’s similar. It’s very, very similar. You’re still helping people. Right. So what is it that you’re sharing on the show? 

[00:23:36] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Yeah. So I would say that the whole premise of The Unstoppable Mom Brain is very focused on storytelling. I share a lot of, not just my story, but stories of what I see with my clients and the obstacles that high achievers have when they are coming into this work.

[00:23:55] And then I share a lot of mindset and tangible strategies. I think [00:24:00] that you learn a lot of like the back pocket body tools that I was referring to. It’s like, I kind of get into the details and I call it like we get into the weeds, we get into all the nitty gritty details on like, how do you apply a back pocket body tools?

[00:24:12] On my podcast, I will walk someone through the hunger tools as a really good example. That’s a very specific, I think of it like, you know, if you’re building a house, it’s like a hammer. So if you can pick up a hammer and you know how to wield the hammer and you know where the nails are and you know where the planks of wood are, you’ll be able to build a house.

[00:24:27] So I think about this podcast as I show you, this is what a hammer is and this is what it does and this is how you can pick it up and start using it. And at the same time, I think it’s really important to provide context. So I’m not just giving you this is a hammer. This is a wrench, but I’m telling you why it matters in the grand scheme of things.

[00:24:44] So a lot of my episodes might be storytelling where I share a real life struggle that came up or some of my personal mom fails like real, life mom fails with my kids and how sometimes our perspectives around failure again as a high achieving [00:25:00] professional, this is a big one, how our perspectives of failure drive us to undo the goals that we really want.

[00:25:06] So I share a lot of stories and a lot of strategy. 

[00:25:10] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. It sounds amazing. And I’m for sure going to include the name of the podcast in the show notes. So the listeners can go check that out and take a listen, because it does sound like you’ve got the nitty gritty you’ve got, you know, you’re defining these things and why they’re important and how to use them.

[00:25:29] And so that just sounds amazing. Excellent. I love it. So let’s talk now a little bit about you’ve mentioned high achieving women and high achievers a lot in our conversation. And so maybe share with us what are two or three different Ways that high achievers can hit their goals.

[00:25:48] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: I think before you know how to hit your goals, a high achiever, you have to know if you identify as a high achiever. So I want to just define that. And then I can talk about the goal piece of it. So the one is a [00:26:00] very common like what we commonly think of as like a perfectionist or high achiever, someone who loves the a, you love doing well, you love the gold star.

[00:26:08] That’s one definition of a high achieving perfectionist. But the hidden, I almost think of it as like the secret definition. The real one is if you hate making mistakes. You are also a perfectionist and a high achiever. And it’s that piece that I think I really unravel with my clients in our coaching together is of course, we all love doing well.

[00:26:30] We understand the human psyche obviously loves to do well. We feel like we’re making forward progress, but it’s those of us that hate making mistakes, want to avoid it at all costs that actually holds back growth. And that kind of speaks a little bit to what high achievers have, which is a fixed mindset, it’s very all or nothing.

[00:26:49] I’m either doing well or I’m not versus to hit goals is really putting yourself into a growth mindset. I think that the very first thing is to really catch whether you identify as someone [00:27:00] that is having a fixed mindset, which is that was my best. I did my best. I didn’t hit my goal versus someone that might be in a growth mindset, which is I did my best and my best is betterable.

[00:27:12] So I think that that is the piece that we really want to first flesh out is do you identify as someone that hates making mistakes? And what would it be like if you could learn how to leverage and learn from every mistake you ever made? If you never made it a problem, if it was nothing is ever going wrong, you make a mistake.

[00:27:29] I call them plot twists. You have a plot twist. You go off plan. You gain five pounds. over three days. I mean, how is that possible? I don’t know, but it’s possible. And what most of us do is we’re like, see, there I go again, throw in the towel, quit. Or we like try to double down.

[00:27:43] We never do the most important step to hit your goal, which is why did it happen? What happened? What happened over those three days that led to the five pounds up? And if we had the most curious, compassionate, patient lens in asking the question, [00:28:00] we would glean so much information and so much wisdom. And when you learn how to leverage that, that’s how you hit goals.

[00:28:07] That’s how you grow past that like, if you keep making the same mistakes again and again, it’s because you’re not leveraging mistakes, you’re not growing with them. 

[00:28:14] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s awesome. I love that. And I think that your point about the all or nothing is so right on, it’s like, oh, okay, well nevermind then, you know, I didn’t make it.

[00:28:30] So nevermind. And then just go the whole opposite direction when it doesn’t have to be that way. If we choose to look at it from a different perspective, like, okay, why did this happen? Where did I maybe go off the rails a little bit? And then how can I learn from that? Cause that sounds like the key is.

[00:28:47] What can I learn from this and then, you know, move forward. 

[00:28:51] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Right. I think the key piece is, and this is really normal, that if this has been you, like don’t, don’t get mad at yourself. It’s so normal. But we think [00:29:00] that, you know, if I made a mistake or if something went awry or I went off plan or had a plot twist, our brain is very quick to think it must be me.

[00:29:08] It must be me. I suck. I just will be the one that never figures it out. So we are very quick to make it mean something about our inherent capacity. And that’s the part that, that we learned as children. We learned like, oh, like if I didn’t fit in, if I got excluded from the group, if I was picked last for the baseball team, if I got a B and if I got scolded for that, it must be me.

[00:29:32] That’s what children learn. And we just kind of grow with that rather than if it was not me, I wonder how it was my implementation. I wonder what specific small thing it was in how I implement or execute it. If I didn’t make it mean anything about my capacity, it’s that piece that my best is betterable, but we have to believe that our best is betterable.

[00:29:54] But the only way to do that is to not make it mean something inherent about us and that’s [00:30:00] unfortunately what I think so many high achievers, especially are so used to. We’re like, see, it must be me. I’m missing. I used to think I’m missing a little puzzle piece in there. I don’t know what it is, right?

[00:30:09] Like I tried all these strategies that seem to work for other people. So it must be me. And that I think is the lie that we unfortunately get very practiced with and if we can put that down, put down the thought, like it must be me, all of a sudden our brains are very innovative at figuring out, well, if it wasn’t that, what else might it be?

[00:30:30] That’s, that’s the part that I do with my clients. 

[00:30:33] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s awesome. And I love that you’re taking that point about if it wasn’t me, you know, like , if it’s not me as the problem, then what is the problem? And our brains are geared to solve problems, right? And so then it goes into immediately like, okay, well, what is it then?

[00:30:51] Is it this? Is it something else? And then that leads to a whole other direction which I love. I think that’s amazing. Thank you for [00:31:00] sharing that. 

[00:31:01] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Okay. And there’s one other thing that I think is really important for anyone to hit their goal is to really define specifically and measurably what their goal is. I cannot tell you how often I see this like in Facebook groups that I’m in and just like general life, you know, friends and colleagues.

[00:31:19] I want to get quote unquote healthy and you’ll say, I want to get healthy, especially New Year’s, your birthday, the first of the month or something. It’s like, I want to get healthy and because healthy is so vague and it means so many things we, again, overload our plans. I’ll see, like, I’m going to do the 90 day juice detox, and then I’m going to do the no carbs.

[00:31:38] And then I’m going to do a keto. And then I’m going to go to the gym and I need to get a trainer. Like all of a sudden we just start overloading our plans. So I think that that’s another really important tendency for a high achiever to catch themselves is if you have a goal to define what that goal is, is your goal to lose weight?

[00:31:54] Is it to get stronger? Is it to build muscle? Is it to drop the fat, like getting really specific. [00:32:00] And if you have more than one goal, because I know I did, I wanted to lose the weight and also I wanted to get strong and have more energy, pick one and go first. And this is, I think, so I speaking to what we were talking about at the beginning, which is.

[00:32:13] Learning how to first lose the weight in the simplest way without needing to coordinate the gym and all of the additional things then, you know, move on to your next goal. So you have one specific measurable goal at a time that I think is it’s important in in goal getting. 

[00:32:30] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah, that’s a great point. The smart goal, right? What’s the acronym stand for? It’s small, measurable, whatever. I can’t recall it right now, but that’s something that we hear a lot is smart goals and that point again about just picking one thing and go with that until you’ve got that.

[00:32:50] You know, easy peasy. It’s a part of your life. It’s no problem. You’re not going to just be like, nevermind, forget it. Yeah. So that’s a really great point for people who maybe are struggling with like, where do [00:33:00] I go first? What do I do first? Yeah. Just start with one thing. 

[00:33:03] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: That’s the whole point like the SMART goal, I think, you know, R is relevant. That’s what R stands for. And I think that it’s important. Like it’s basically saying like, what’s the most relevant thing you want to prioritize the getting healthy is maybe what your goal is long term, but T time bound is like, let’s come to exactly.

[00:33:22] What is the thing that matters most to you now? Like, if you think about you six months from now, this is, I love this question because you get to borrow wisdom from your future. It’s like six months from now, what will I be the most grateful for? Will I be the most grateful that I dropped 20 pounds in six months?

[00:33:38] Will that be what I’m the most grateful for? Will it be that I got stronger? That I can do more squats? That I can lift more? Like, what will I be the most grateful for six months from now? And let that be your kind of compass to decide what is going to be my specific, measurable achievable, Goal that I want to start with.

[00:33:55] I think that that’s so important. 

[00:33:57] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love that because it’s [00:34:00] also like, what will your future self thank you for, right? What are you going to work on right now that your future self is going to thank you for? And I love that. So using that as a guide, like you said, a sort of compass. What am I going to be thankful for then that I do now?

[00:34:18] And so, yeah, that’s excellent. 

[00:34:20] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: And this is important because, you know, one of the things that I teach, it’s like a specific tool I teach. I call it the four P’s of how to take uninspired action. I call this uninspired action because listen, like Monday morning, we have motivation is gone by Wednesday afternoon.

[00:34:33] So we have to know, like, if I didn’t feel excited all the time and I didn’t feel motivated, how do we take, I call it uninspired action because that’s that’s how you hit goals. You have to get really good at taking uninspired action. I think part of it is this piece, what will I be so grateful for tomorrow?

[00:34:50] What will I be so like you don’t have to be excited to follow through on your plan if you feel proud of yourself in the process. And I think that [00:35:00] this is like borrowing. I think of it as better quality fuel than waxing and waning motivation and up and down excitement and the brand new fad.

[00:35:08] What will I be so grateful for tomorrow? And the moment you start following through, even though you’re not feeling like it feels so good in the moment, which to me is just so much fun. 

[00:35:18] Desiree Stanley: Yes, yes, that’s excellent. And I feel like we don’t always have that motivation and because we don’t have that motivation, how do we make ourselves do it?

[00:35:28] And it’s kind of like the, just do it anyway kind of thing, but, but I love that you’re saying, well, think about what you’ll be grateful for tomorrow. I love that, that reminder about why you want to get up and do whatever it is that you’re doing, whether it’s a change of an eating pattern or an exercise routine.

[00:35:48] Because we’re not really motivated. Most of the time we’re not motivated to do these things. But when you think about what am I going to be grateful for? I love that. That is a great way to energize [00:36:00] yourself to do the thing. 

[00:36:01] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Yeah. I was actually just talking to my client today and she was saying that she was like, I didn’t know that that was a thing. Like, why do I keep meeting Monday morning? Why do I need fresh starts? It’s because we become a little addicted to motivation Monday morning motivations really high. It’s gone by Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon. When we were talking today, she was like, when I learned that my mind was a little blown that wait a second.

[00:36:21] That’s why I keep starting and stopping. That’s why I keep waiting for like fresh starts because I. Was relying on motivation. I didn’t know that I needed to learn how to take uninspired action and not have to grit my teeth through it, not have to like muscle my way through it, that there could be this third way.

[00:36:38] Like you could actually feel proud of yourself, even if you don’t feel like it. And it’s like, to me, the only sustainable way. 

[00:36:45] Desiree Stanley: That’s awesome. Thank you for reiterating that for us because that that was fantastic. I always love to ask my guests what books that they are reading or have read that you feel like the listeners would find beneficial or [00:37:00] influential.

[00:37:01] Please share that with us now. 

[00:37:02] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: So, what I’m reading right now is Outlander, which is not a self help, self growth book. It is just, like, pure fun where, like, I get to just turn off my mind. But let me tell you, two of the books that I really loved, one is Atomic Habits by James Clear. I think it’s, like, page 11 or 13.

[00:37:18] He has a visual with, like, circles. And I just think that Image just captures the essence of how you hit any goal, especially your body goals. You have to start shifting your identity, who you are and how you’re going to show up to the work. It doesn’t mean you have to do more work. You just have to shift perspective.

[00:37:35] And I love how he talks about habits. And the other book that I really love if you want to know more about the science and I’m a big fan of science and research backed weight loss strategies to understand your brain and the science of how you lose weight. I think The Hungry Brain by Stephan Guyenet is phenomenal.

[00:37:52] It’s a little bit dense and it’s, it can get a little, you know, into again, the weeds, we get into the weeds, but if you really love the science of things, then that’s a [00:38:00] great book to read. 

[00:38:01] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Those are great recommendations. And James Clear has been a recommendation that so many of my guests have have shared because it is such a great book.

[00:38:12] I have read it a number of times because I just love what he talks about in there. Again, it’s those small habits, those small routines that build and build and grow and make big results. And so I think it’s, it’s brilliant. And the science backed book, I think is a great idea. And, you know, maybe take it into chunks, read bits and pieces at a time if it’s a little bit more than you’re accustomed to reading. But I think that’s a great thing, too, because it gives us the understanding of how our brain works and functions. 

[00:38:45] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Yeah, absolutely, which is so good. I think, like, you know, before you go about a new strategy, you want to…

[00:38:51] Get your brain on board with why is this the best strategy and like, believe in the strategy. And I will say that a lot of what I put out on the Unstoppable Mom Brain [00:39:00] podcast is through the filter of all of the books I have read. I have read all the books for you so that you don’t have to read the dense research science articles.

[00:39:09] I think that that’s, you know, part of the benefit of having an OBGYN physician that is sharing on weight loss. But if you really want to get into the articles and the books and stuff, this is such a good resource. 

[00:39:21] Desiree Stanley: Love it. And never discount the fun reading, right? I mean, I had another guest on who kind of said the same thing and it’s like, we have to remember it’s okay to do fun things just for fun.

[00:39:33] There’s nothing wrong with that. And we absolutely should do those things too. So Thank you for sharing that. And is there any podcasts that you like to listen to that you’d like to share? 

[00:39:45] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: You know, a favorite podcast episode that I love to recommend if you’re a mom, if you’re a parent, Glennon Doyle’s, We Can Do Hard Things is a great podcast.

[00:39:56] And she has an episode where she interviews Dr. Becky Kennedy, [00:40:00] who talks about parenting. And I love Dr. Becky Kennedy’s perspective on parenting. It is just a must listen to. And I think that it will touch the heart of any mom who has really struggled with wanting to do more for herself and for her child.

[00:40:17] I just think it’s such a good episode. So I would say that. 

[00:40:20] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I’ll include all of that in the show notes as well. And, and look up the episode number so I can make it easy for the listeners to find. Thank you so much for, for suggesting those as well. And Dr. Venugopal, I so appreciate your time and your knowledge and everything that you have shared with us today. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It has been so wonderful. And I feel like we could continue on just talking about all of these things because we barely scratched the surface, but thank you again for your time and your knowledge, I so appreciate it.

[00:40:55] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: Oh, I appreciate you. This has been so fun for me. And I love that you’re doing these on your podcast. I [00:41:00] think it’s so great to have podcasts like this, where you share and like just the name of your podcast. I mean, it says it all. So I’m so grateful to be here and thank you so much for having me. 

[00:41:10] Desiree Stanley: And lastly, I do want to have you share.

[00:41:13] If people have questions, they want to follow your story and get in touch with you, where would they be able to do that? 

[00:41:21] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: So I am The Unstoppable Mom Brain everywhere on the internet. So you can find that that’s the name of my podcast. It’s on any podcast platform and YouTube and The Unstoppable Mom Brain on Instagram.

[00:41:32] I do a lot of Instagram stories, a lot of behind the scenes of like real life, what it’s like to be a working mom and all of the things that we talked about today. And if you want to work with me, then the unstoppable group will be opening for enrollment. You can get all the information. I have a live webinar happening where I’m going to be teaching a concept, do less work, lose more weight.

[00:41:52] And you can get that information at TheUnstoppableMomBrain.com/webinar. And that’s where you can find me. [00:42:00] 

[00:42:00] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I’ll be sure to include all of that in the show notes as well. And thank you again for your time today and all of the information that you shared. It’s just been an honor to have you on.

[00:42:09] Thank you so much. 

[00:42:10] Dr. Priyanka Venugopal: I love it. Thank you for having me. 

[00:42:13] Desiree Stanley: All right. We’ll talk soon. 

__________________________

POK_Jenilee Samuel Podcast_09_06_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today, I’m so thrilled to have Jenilee Samuel. Welcome to the show. How are you today? 

[00:00:11] Jenilee Samuel: Thank you so much for having me. I’m doing great. I’m excited to get to have this conversation with you. 

[00:00:16] Desiree Stanley: I am thrilled that you’re joining us today because you have some fantastic information to share with all of us.

[00:00:23] And I’m excited also to learn some things that maybe I don’t know about podcasting. So Jenilee is the CEO of The Podcast Plan M astermind. And she’s going to tell us all about that in just a minute, but the podcast that you have is Java with Jen and it’s a little bit of a specialized, I want to say theme.

[00:00:46] And so I want you to tell us all about it. So how did you decide that you wanted to launch a podcast? What was the driving factors that made you want to just jump in and do that? 

[00:00:58] Jenilee Samuel: Yes, absolutely. Well, even before I [00:01:00] answer that, I want to say congratulations on being here as long as you have and for having as many shows as you do, because I read when I started that the average lifespan of a podcaster is seven episodes.

[00:01:09] So once you’ve made it past there, you’ve made it in podcasting. So congratulations. But I actually got started because my vocationally. I grew up a missionary kid in high school and college. I was very involved in ministry, had lots of opportunities to speak in stadiums and do different things. But then something happened when I got married and moved to Southeast Texas and all the opportunities dried up even though we were pastors.

[00:01:35] And so I found myself wrestling and struggling and crying for years, like feeling invisible, like I wasn’t going to be able to use my gifts to serve the world. And I just kept patiently waiting to be invited, patiently waiting Hey, why don’t you preach this Sunday? Kept waiting for those invitations and they just never came.

[00:01:54] I’m 18 years into pastoring and we’ve pastored over four congregations and I’ve never been invited [00:02:00] to speak on a Sunday morning, even though I can, and I can preach, you know? And so. I for a while was very heartbroken and subscribed to the belief for just a short period that people could limit my ability to steward the gifts that God has put inside of me.

[00:02:16] And that was a very disheartening couple of months when I believed that because then in essence, I was believing a powerless lie. You know, it made me powerless in my life. And so it took about two months and I was like, you know what? I’m breaking up with this. I don’t like this idea anymore. I just realized at the end of my life, there’s going to be nobody standing next to me when I stand before the Lord and give an account for my life.

[00:02:40] No one stands next to me. I don’t get to blame anyone. I don’t get to make excuses. I have to answer for my life. And so I was like, you know what, then I’m going to do something to practice and use these skills. And podcasting seemed to be the easiest way to do it. YouTubing was intimidating and going live on Facebook wasn’t an option because I was like, no way.

[00:02:59] And [00:03:00] so podcasting seemed to be the most doable. And it has grown into such a wonderful vehicle for sharing my heart. I’ve gotten amazing responses from listeners. There was one episode I did on, on marriage and I had a guest on there. And one of my listeners had been praying for someone in their family whose marriage was having a hard time.

[00:03:21] They connected them to my guest. They got marriage counseling, totally transformed their marriage. And now they’re happier than ever. And so just little things like that. I’m like, okay, then this is. And that’s what I’m after. So podcasting is a vehicle that is very underrated. And the easiest to get into, I feel like of all the avenues that are out there.

[00:03:42] Desiree Stanley: I love it. Thank you for sharing that with us. And I agree with you in that the message that you’re able to share with others. And it’s an easy format listening is, you know, such a great thing for, for all of us to hear [00:04:00] these, these stories and these messages in such an easy way, right? It’s something that we can do when we’re walking the dog or cleaning the dishes or we’re cleaning the house or we’re driving on a long drive, whatever the case may be.

[00:04:11] I think it’s such a great way to share the message and the knowledge and information that we have. Absolutely love it. So tell us then a little bit more about your show, Java with Jen and more of the topics that you’re discussing. In fact, I just have to say, I listened to the most recent episode and it was like it was for me because i, you know, recently had a couple of things that came up that didn’t line up the way that I thought they were supposed to, and it was an important message. And so I got something from it. So go ahead and tell 

[00:04:48] us a little bit more. 

[00:04:49] Jenilee Samuel: Well, thank you for sharing that. That’s encouraging. Yeah. So my podcast is called Java with Jen Hearing God’s Voice for Everyday Life.

[00:04:56] I call it Java with Jen because for [00:05:00] years and years and years, the outlet that I did have in pouring into people’s lives was the college girls that we pastored would come over and I would make coffee. I kind of learned that if you make someone a cup of coffee, they stick around longer. So I would be like, here’s coffee.

[00:05:13] Let’s talk. I mean, I had kids everywhere. I had four kids and they were like, I was drowning in children. So I was like, I need an adult stick around. And so I’d make them coffee. And so it just kind of became a thing. If they came over, they wanted coffee. And so I was like conversations over coffee.

[00:05:27] That’s my thing. So Java with Jen, which, I mean, it’s not the first time it’s been thought of, but whatever. And but hearing God’s voice for everyday life, I decided to go that route because It wasn’t until season four, actually, that I started evaluating, it kind of drove me crazy that my podcast was not real clear what it was about.

[00:05:44] It was just Java with Jen for the longest. And it kind of drove me crazy that people couldn’t come across it and be like, Ooh, that looks like it’s for me, you know, didn’t know what to do. And so I just started asking myself like Jenilee, at the end of your life, what message are you wanting to bring to [00:06:00] the world?

[00:06:00] Like Elon Musk, he dreams big and he’s doing the things he dreams about and people who make a difference, it’s because they have clarity on where they’re headed. I just was like, at the end of my life, if I die and Fail at something or don’t do something? What would I feel like I had failed at?

[00:06:16] And I realized it’s just in my heart to teach people how to hear God’s voice, that it’s simple and it’s not meant to be complicated. It’s meant to be a normal part of the Christian experience. And so I realized that it comes out in a lot of my episodes anyways, because it’s just who I am and what’s in me.

[00:06:33] So I decided that’s going to be my tagline. And there are a number of episodes on there. 12 and 13 and 37 through 40 that if anyone wants to go listen where I walk through, like, this is how you can learn to hear God’s voice and it could change your life. Like, I mean, God who created you and knows all things.

[00:06:50] Why wouldn’t we want to hear his voice? He’s got the best advice. Anyways, that’s what the show is about. We cover real life topics though. So everything from setting boundaries to having more joy in [00:07:00] parenting. And I had one episode called hashtag mom fails, where we just share a lot of stories of times when we failed as moms and we laugh about it.

[00:07:08] And that’s a lot of fun. We talk about marriage stuff and how to talk to your kids about sex, you know, like all the regular like life topics. But I share how either my guest or myself, how God played a part in the way that we approached that thing. And so it’s meant to be very, it’s meant to normalize pulling God into your everyday life.

[00:07:28] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s fantastic. Thanks for going into a little bit more detail about the show. And it has been a delight listening to the show because I didn’t necessarily grow up. In that you know, setting, I didn’t go to church regularly, but I did grow up in a very spiritual background. So for me, it’s, you know, maybe not necessarily the title God, it’s universe or universal source or spirit.

[00:07:54] But the idea is the same. I really feel that [00:08:00] there is something maybe bigger than us. That is having a hand in our lives in directing our lives. And there’s a purpose for the things that happen in our life. And when we can find the purpose behind the things that happen, we’re really growing. And I think that crosses all boundaries, right?

[00:08:18] Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit more about the podcasting side in terms of launching a podcast. I know you have many years of podcasting experience and how was it that you started the podcast? Cause you’ve got a fantastic mastermind that you’ve got coming up and I want you to share all about that and, and telling the listeners about how they can do that.

[00:08:44] If it’s something that they’re interested in, what was it that you did that got it launched? 

[00:08:50] Jenilee Samuel: That was such a journey. I’m like, I laugh. I laugh at my naivety when I thought podcasting would be the easiest way to get my voice into the world. It is [00:09:00] easy and simple. Let me say that it’s simple, but learning the things that go along with podcasting, that’s where all the work is.

[00:09:07] The marketing, the email, how to keep up with your community and sending emails. And if you want to do merchandise and all these different, there was a lot of things to be learned, even graphic design, just to create my graphics or SEO and learning how to write things that will make people find your podcast when they’re searching online.

[00:09:25] There was just a lot to learn. It was a journey and I feel like it was probably a good solid two years before I started feeling any momentum it was honestly, there was like the first year I had my podcast, it wasn’t really doing anything because I was learning all the other things.

[00:09:41] I actually created a freebie for your audience. If they’re interested, if any of them are DIY ers or they’re interested in starting a podcast, it’s kind of like an eagle eye view or like a little roadmap. It’s a seven step checklist. There are more than seven things on there. It’s like seven categories.

[00:09:56] Seven areas that you need to have established in order to launch your [00:10:00] podcast and do it well and be able to grow it and stuff. So that’s a freebie. And I think you’re probably dropping the link to that in your show notes, but so that’s available if they’re interested. Yeah. Yeah, but I just did a lot of scrappy learning online.

[00:10:12] I didn’t have a budget to work with, so I found tools that are free or they have a free version that I could function on for a while. And so I’m definitely of the philosophy free or cheap. And that’s how I’ve run my show. I hardly spend anything on keeping my podcast up, but it’s in the top 1% globally.

[00:10:29] It’s in listen to an over 80 nations. So. doing something right somewhere. 

[00:10:33] Desiree Stanley: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, if you’ve got the length of time that you have been broadcasting, as well as the, the 80 different countries that you said that your show is airing in, that’s of course fantastic. And does speak to the quality of the show that you have.

[00:10:51] Thank you for telling us a little bit more about that. And here’s something that I wanted to ask you, because you mentioned a couple of times about cost and [00:11:00] how do you suggest that people start this without putting a lot of money out there? 

[00:11:05] Jenilee Samuel: Yes. Well, I will say this. If I could go back and do it differently.

[00:11:11] I would have invested in a coach because, and I mean that genuinely, not just because I coach, but I coach now because I’m like, let me save you the heartache of what I went through, you know, and I have hired a number of coaches at different stages of my journey. I had another business I was running for a while too.

[00:11:27] And so. I see how hiring a coach accelerated my progress. I could have been miles ahead. You know, you learn from all of their troubleshooting. You learn from where they invested in coaches and learned valuable things. And so it’s worth it to invest in a coach, but because I didn’t do that on the upfront, I just basically bought a microphone.

[00:11:47] And so I found an inexpensive microphone and I remember I had to pray for that money. I didn’t have that money. And eventually I invested in Canva, which is The program that I use to create all my graphics. And that’s pretty much it. There’s been a little bit of [00:12:00] expenses here and there, just like small, tiny ones, but that’s pretty much what I invest in to run my show.

[00:12:05] But yeah, if I could do it again, I would have hired a coach yesterday, like five years ago, it would have made things so much easier. 

[00:12:12] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for speaking on that, because that is something that I think a lot of people are like, what do you wish you knew, like then, that could have helped you.

[00:12:23] And so it sounds like that somebody else who has experience doing what you want to do, of course, they’re going to be able to help you cut out a lot of wasted time and energy and mistakes. I mean, you’re going to make your own mistakes, of course, but. You know, they’re going to help you really cut out so much of that, that you’re going to be leaps ahead.

[00:12:45] So that’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. 

[00:12:47] Jenilee Samuel: I was going to say too, honestly, looking back it now, because I didn’t put a lot of money in. I didn’t have a lot of wasted money, but I know a lot of people that they just go in and they start buying all the programs, all the apps, all the, this, they put the [00:13:00] money in because, you know, you feel more invested that way you feel more ownership, but then it’s a lot of wasted money because you don’t realize what you don’t know, and you don’t realize what you don’t need until later on and so.

[00:13:12] That’s one of the other advantages of walking with somebody is they can tell you, don’t put your money there. Like my business coach today, she was like, I would tell you if you had this amount of money, don’t put it in the website yet. Do this, this, this, and then do the web. You know, I have a website, but that’s what she was saying is she, she can save you.

[00:13:27] I could save my students investing unnecessarily. So that’s another major help. 

[00:13:34] Desiree Stanley: Oh, for sure. A hundred percent. I agree with that. The you don’t know what you don’t know, and you start throwing money at these things and then you realize later on, I didn’t need that. I didn’t need to spend the money on that, but now it’s too late.

[00:13:49] So Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Why waste money? There’s, there’s no reason for it when you don’t have to. So that’s awesome. And you mentioned a little bit about some seven [00:14:00] steps and Yes, for sure I’ll include that in the show notes, a link to that. But if you wanted to share a little bit, maybe just a couple of those with us now that.

[00:14:07] Fantastic. 

[00:14:08] Jenilee Samuel: Yeah, absolutely. So I cover about like in my mastermind, we cover those seven steps, but I break it up in about 10 weeks. And so in week one, we talk about just the basics of podcasting, what equipment they’ll need, what programs and apps they need to download, what websites they need to sign up for.

[00:14:25] And I get all that set up upfront. And then week two is your podcast identity. So knowing who are you talking to? What problem is your podcast solving? You know, like having a show that’s very broad topic doesn’t always serve you because people think more uniquely than just, I’m a woman. You know, I think I’m a Christian woman with lots of children and not a lot of time on my hands, or I’m an entrepreneur woman with lots of, you know, so I’d be more interested in a podcast that’s geared towards someone that matches a few of those criteria.

[00:14:57] Right. And so niching down your [00:15:00] podcast is a difficult, but important part of the process in creating the identity of your show, I talk about branding and how to create the visual aesthetics so that wherever your show shows up online, there’s a cohesion throughout it. It looks more professional, it looks more credible, and it just is nicer.

[00:15:17] People just appreciate it. Then they begin to recognize you based on your colors or your text or whatever. The branding is very powerful for brand recognition. And then we go into the recording part and figuring out music, like. Can I use this kind of music? Will I get sued if I use that music?

[00:15:32] You know, like how to figure all that out. And and then I teach them about formatting their show and having guests on and how to interview well, how to get things organized. I provide them with planners and stuff so that they can keep their shows organized. And then marketing. How to like get it out to the masses.

[00:15:49] It’s no good having a show if no one can find you, right? So how to get it out to the people that will be interested. And then lastly is also how to monetize your show. Cause some [00:16:00] people it’s an extension of their business, or maybe it’s a way people learn of their business. And so learning how to even turn your podcast into a full time income is one thing that we talk about.

[00:16:11] And then getting on YouTube. So there’s, there’s a number of things email marketing and blogging. We go into that to help them get found online. So there’s a lot of things we cover, but it’s important to me. The reason it’s broken up in 10 weeks is we could smash it into a much shorter. Project, but I want it to be something people can build into their lives alongside a full time job because not everybody has the luxury of quitting their job to go start a podcast, you know, or women who are raising children and having to shuttle their kids around all the time and school and all that.

[00:16:44] It has to be able to fit into the life for it to be a blessing. I want podcasting to be able to be a blessing that way. It’s something that can go the distance. So those are some of the things that we cover. And I just, I try to make it where my students cannot fail. If they go through my [00:17:00] mastermind, if they follow the instructions and work with me, I offer the one on one coaching calls as well throughout the 10 week course, which is more than what I find a lot of coaching on this level does.

[00:17:10] But it’s because it’s important to me that they don’t feel overwhelmed, that they don’t get stuck and that they are able to successfully launch their show. It’s a wonderful group. I just love it. 

[00:17:20] Desiree Stanley: That’s excellent. Thank you for going into so much detail there and telling us about the different things that are covered through the course.

[00:17:28] And I agree with you when we’re busy and we’re doing a lot of things in our regular life, we maybe have a job and kids and whatever else keeping up the house. You get too overwhelmed. I think if you’re trying to just cram that in, in a too short of a period of time, so it sounds like you’ve formatted in such a way that people can really make it work for whatever life that they’re leading.

[00:17:51] So that’s awesome. And I want to talk a little bit more about, you mentioned businesses. If somebody has a business and they’re [00:18:00] thinking, maybe I want to launch a podcast, why do you think that’s a good idea for them? 

[00:18:04] Jenilee Samuel: Oh, absolutely. Because I mean, I feel like the whole nature of a podcast is what I’ve learned, especially interviewing so many people.

[00:18:12] Everybody has a message and everybody’s looking for a way I think our human nature is trying to find a way to bring who I am into the world to make the impact it’s supposed to have. Right. And in essence, In one way or another that usually boils down to a message or a service. And whether that’s, you’re a doctor saving lives or you’re a teacher, you have a message, but you’re also teaching children, you know, so everyone has their, the way they’re serving humanity.

[00:18:40] And so for businesses, podcasting is valuable because people won’t buy from a business unless they trust that business. And they’re confident that that business can solve their problem. And so podcasting solves both of those in that. People build trust with you because they listen to you talk, they experience your knowledge, they [00:19:00] experience your expertise, they troubleshoot with some of the things you suggest and they implement, and then they see if it’s successful.

[00:19:06] So you’re building a rapport with people so that if they’re followers of your podcast and they encounter you on the podcast, they trust you. And so they’re more inclined to spend money with you or to employ your services or whatever, then someone who doesn’t encounter you and just comes across your website.

[00:19:23] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, great points. And talking a little bit more about marketing and so how this plays into the marketing of the business also, right? 

[00:19:33] Jenilee Samuel: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, I just went through a training talking about how using your podcast can be the top of your funnel where, where people.

[00:19:42] Learn about your business through your podcast, and then you take them on a journey through various different methods to learn, build trust and to learn about you and learn how you can solve their problem. And so, yeah, podcasting is a really, it’s a non invasive, low pressure way to build a [00:20:00] relationship with potential clients and to serve them, even to serve them just on the, on the upfront, you know?

[00:20:05] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, definitely. And I want to ask you as an entrepreneur yourself, how have you found, like, maybe what challenges have you encountered, you know, trying to build a business and your life, working everything together, what are some challenges maybe that you’ve encountered and kind of how have you worked around them, worked over them, gotten through them, what would you like to share on that?

[00:20:32] Jenilee Samuel: Girl, summertime, summertime is a challenge, man. When all the kids are home and I’m like, I’m just trying to get work done. Leave me alone so I can work. No I’m actually really thankful that I didn’t have any jobs or businesses. So my kids were a little, so I could really just be present and enjoy them.

[00:20:49] But even doing this, you know, I’ve had to learn because obviously I don’t want my relationships with my kids to suffer. I don’t want my priority of my family to fall into the wrong order of the other [00:21:00] things in my life. And so I just had to learn how to protect the time that I do have to work.

[00:21:05] I’ve had to learn that sometimes that means I have to take up the burden of getting up early or staying up late. So I’m not cutting into the time that my kids deserve to have me. And so yeah, just organization is humongous. Like I’ve just had to learn to batch working is huge. And then also I found in this, the Holy spirit gave me the wisdom for, because at one point I was running my styling business.

[00:21:30] I’m a wardrobe stylist as well, and a podcaster and a pastor and mentoring people and social media and all the things. And so I literally sat down and I was like, Lord, unless you give me an idea. Like my brain is cramping from stress because I can’t do all of it. And the Lord gave me the idea of just designating certain days to certain tasks.

[00:21:51] So like Monday was my recording day and I just made sure that that all got done. So my episode was ready on Tuesday, you know, and then Wednesday was social [00:22:00] media day to. Use all that content and create social media for the next week, so he, gave me strategies and it helps simplify the crazy.

[00:22:08] And so that helped a whole lot. 

[00:22:10] Desiree Stanley: I love what you said though, really batch work is a great way to manage a lot of different things for sure. And you know, the idea that what’s really important to you, right. Considering what’s really important to you and, yeah, maybe you’re going to have to get up a little bit earlier so it doesn’t interfere, whatever it is that you want to do, write a book, run a business, you know, whatever the case may be, you have to get up a little bit earlier so it doesn’t interfere with the thing that is number one in your life.

[00:22:45] And that’s a great point. So remembering those things, what’s most important and why, and how do I, Organize everything else around that. I think is the key. 

[00:22:56] Jenilee Samuel: Yeah. Well, and it also has this way of streamlining, like [00:23:00] you’re saying, prioritizing what’s important. It made me realize that all of my stress wasn’t that it wasn’t manageable.

[00:23:06] It was that I just didn’t have a system. And which is also part of what I teach my students is how to have a system because anything you’re doing, writing a book, raising kids, running a career, running a business, anything will be a burden if you don’t have a system to make it happen and have a flow in your life, have a routine.

[00:23:24] I realized it wasn’t also unmanageable and that the tasks I needed to do weren’t as many as it felt like and so that helps a lot. So yes, running a podcast or a business alongside of a regular life is totally doable. You just need a routine.

[00:23:39] Desiree Stanley: And so you talked a little bit about just now, you had to sort of get it organized. And do you use some kind of system in terms of like a planner or an organizer that, and you hinted at that when you were talking about the podcast course, is there something specifically that you [00:24:00] do, or is it just really like a bullet list?

[00:24:03] Jenilee Samuel: You know, depending on my workflow, like what I’m working on, it does change what tool I’m using. So I kinda, I use two primary tools. Well, we’ll say three. I use my calendar in my phone, you know, to make sure that things, especially that are time sensitive, that they go on my calendar. But I do keep a regular day planner.

[00:24:21] I keep a regular day planner that in fact, I can give you the link for the day planner. If you’re people want it because it’s gangbusters. It’s awesome. So it, it helps you track your quarterly goals. Your monthly goals and your weekly agenda. And it just breaks it all down and it’s undated.

[00:24:36] So if you get off for a few weeks, you don’t lose those days in your planner. It’s wonderful. I keep things just when my brain is overwhelmed, I just write everything down. But when it comes to running my podcast. I actually did create planner sheets that I use. And so I have some that are designated like this right here.

[00:24:54] But anyways, it’s a planner sheet for episodes. And so I just kind of thought through everything I needed for an episode and put it into a [00:25:00] planner. And then I have a monthly planner, a quarterly planner for more of a broad view of like what’s coming, a social media planner and a financial planner. So I just created a bunch of those in Canva. I do supply those templates to my students. And so they can kind of tweak them and adjust them to make them fit their life. But that was a game changer, man. Before I had that trying to schedule all these people, I just got so lost and disorganized.

[00:25:27] And so once I did that, I just found myself getting ahead not forgetting as many things. And it was just, it helps so much. So yeah, that’s what I do those three. 

[00:25:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s awesome. And that you created those is fantastic. Some of us are not as, you know, creative in that way. And yeah, so for sure the planner that you mentioned, I’d love to be able to link that in the show notes because some of us just need something that’s ready for us to just write things down.

[00:25:56] But I love that you’ve got that creativity and you’ve talked about [00:26:00] Canva and it is a fantastic tool. I love it as well using that to create my thumbnails. For the show episodes, but I’m sure there’s so much more that it can do. So I love that you shared that. And if anyone is interested, I’ll put that in there as well.

[00:26:15] But I want to ask you, what do you feel like the key kind of Decisions or the turning points that sort of happened in your life that led you this way. And we talked a little bit at the beginning about you made the move and some things didn’t line up the way you thought they would, but was there anything else that really pointed you in this direction?

[00:26:39] Jenilee Samuel: I don’t know that there was anything specific. It was just more the the journey of it all. The fact that for years and years and years, I was miserable I mean, because any of us, if you feel like you don’t have your voice, especially if you’re a communicator, it just feels like your soul is dying, you know?

[00:26:56] But what I like, what I appreciate about that is what [00:27:00] I thought was trying to shut me up was actually the vehicle or the circumstances that just simply forced me to look another direction. And now my voice is listened to in over 80 countries. I couldn’t have done that in the four walls of a church, you know?

[00:27:17] And so the fact that it kind of I took what was hard and I was like, this is not the end of me. I am not going to let this determine my future. I’m not quitting. I’m not giving up. I’m not going to let my soul die in this place. And so I was like, what else am I not seeing? What else is there? And I feel like.

[00:27:36] From so many entrepreneurs that I’ve ever, or people who have ever done anything great with their lives, they say the same thing. They’re like those things that were closed doors or lost opportunities, or things didn’t work out like I thought, you know, like you mentioned that oftentimes those are the doors that are simply meant to steer us down a hallway to another door. We have to make sure we don’t get stuck in that disappointment [00:28:00] because our brains we’re, we dream up the future and we try to make a map for ourselves, right? Because that’s how our brains are built. But God is so much bigger than our little imagination. Why would I think that what I can dream up for myself is the greatest that could happen? You know, that’s so silly. God is bigger than that in his plans for me, the Bible says that his plans for us are greater. His imaginations are greater than ours.

[00:28:24] And so for people to realize that when a door closes, they can rest and trust, some of them are painful, and I understand that. But If we can stay in the place of resting and trusting that if you’re a Christian, you believe that your steps are ordered by the Lord. And if you believe in the universe, then you may believe that fate is ordering your steps or whatever, but just getting into that space of trust and rest, because it doesn’t serve you at all to get all worked up about it.

[00:28:51] You’re just going to traumatize yourself. Self through those emotions. And so resting that, you know what, then there’s something else life doesn’t happen to me. It happens [00:29:00] for me. And so I believe this is for me and I’m going to let it work for me. And I’m going to pick my head up and look at what other opportunities might be presenting themselves.

[00:29:08] So I feel like that’s really captures how I landed here. 

[00:29:13] Desiree Stanley: Oh, I love it. Absolutely. I love that you said that it’s happening for me, that these things that we often want to say, why is this happening to me? Why is this happening to me? And if you change your perspective and you think, why, why is this happening?

[00:29:30] And is it happening for me? And if that’s the case, what am I missing here that I need to be thinking about? What do I need to be considering that? I’m not seeing. And I love that because it just switches up that whole negative mindset that you can have thinking like, Oh, this is happening to me. Something else is happening to me, but it’s happening for me.

[00:29:56] And why? And then you can look, like you said, down the [00:30:00] hallway and maybe. There’s something else that you need to be doing instead. That’s so much better than what you initially thought. And I love that. 

[00:30:08] Jenilee Samuel: It’s so true. And to be honest back, and I guess this maybe would play a part. When I started my podcast, I had intended to launch in 2017.

[00:30:18] But our house flooded in Hurricane Harvey. Hurricane Harvey came in. We had no idea how bad it was going to be, but when we evacuated, that was the last time we saw our belongings because we had 10 feet of water in our house. And it was just, it was devastating. Practically speaking, it was the whole community was devastated.

[00:30:37] And I remember going through that situation. And my concern was for my children because they were much younger back then. And I was concerned. I was like, this is technically a traumatizing experience, but I know that like you’re saying with the mindset. How we look at a situation and the story we tell ourselves about the situation determines how traumatizing it is or not.[00:31:00] 

[00:31:00] And I understand that more now on this side of things, because when we were walking through it, I asked the Lord, I said, Lord, I need an idea. How do I protect my kids hearts? From the trauma of losing everything that they owned. I mean, we own the clothes on our back and the structure of our house.

[00:31:14] And that was all we had. And and the Lord spoke to my heart and he said, he reminded me of another preacher’s words. Who says I stay encouraged by looking to see what God is doing and keeping that lens of looking. What is God doing on my behalf? And so that became our mantra as we walked through that.

[00:31:33] And so every time the kids would get, I would pick them up from school once we got back into a routine. And, you know, someone had bought them beds or someone had bought them bikes or someone paid off their lunches for the rest of the year. So I didn’t have to worry about lunches, you know, or they paid off their tuition for the rest of the year, or someone provided us a house to stay in and we didn’t even have to pay rent, you know, All these things kept happening for us.

[00:31:54] And so I would point the kid’s eyes to that and say, guys, look what happened today. Look what God is doing for us today. [00:32:00] And by the end of the year, when new year came around we were reflecting on the year as a family. And I asked the boys, I said, boys, you’ve had a hard year. What was your favorite part of the year?

[00:32:10] Like looking back over it, what was the best part of the year? And they all said, like in a chorus, they were like hurricane Harvey. And I was like, What? Like, what are you guys talking about? You lost everything you loved. You lost your toys and all this and they were like, Oh, well, because God did so much for us and he blessed us and got us new toys and new bikes and new beds and new this and they were just, they were distracted from the trauma.

[00:32:37] With the blessing and I feel like that that became just a life principle that I have anchored my heart on every time I go through something hard now. And so if it’s someone who’s listening, and they have a message to get out or they have a business to build or they have something and they just keep hitting roadblocks, I would encourage them to.

[00:32:57] Just stop looking at the roadblocks and ask, [00:33:00] where is the door open? Like, where is their grace on my life? Where is their favor? What can I walk through? And where, maybe where else should I be looking? And it’s amazing how life unfolds in ways that we don’t expect. 

[00:33:12] Desiree Stanley: Oh, absolutely. And thank you for sharing that story.

[00:33:14] And I do remember when Hurricane Harvey happened and now, you know, if you’re following anything that was happening with the fires in Maui and what has happened there on the island is just, you know, absolute devastation. That’s a difficult, incredibly difficult position to be in.

[00:33:32] And so to take what you just shared and to look at where is God’s hand, where are the blessings happening and the community coming together to support each other. They’re always about Ohana, the family and We are a human family. And so they may not be your biological family, but they are still your family and they’re helping each other and coming together to help the community.

[00:33:58] And so [00:34:00] you have to look at where are the positives in such a negative situation that has happened. And so thank you for sharing your experience. Experience and how you were able to help your children look at where the good is. And that’s, I think, so important for us all to remember where is the good.

[00:34:17] Yeah. So thank you for that. For sure. And I wanna talk a little bit about, to change, gears here just a smidge. Let’s talk a little bit more about the mastermind that you have, that’s going to be launching soon because the idea of people being able to share their voice, their story, the knowledge that they have in the podcast format is your expertise and you’re teaching people how to do that.

[00:34:47] And so I want you to take some time right now and share a little bit more about that with the listeners. 

[00:34:53] Jenilee Samuel: Absolutely. I am launching my next round on September 10th. And so it’s just around the corner. I’m [00:35:00] going to keep doors open for the first two weeks after, because it’s not so hard to catch up on the first two weeks, but beyond that, it’d probably be a bit much.

[00:35:07] And so the doors will be open till, what is that? September 24th. Yeah, and it’s very exciting. It’s basically the topics that I covered earlier, and then it’s set up where it’s a once a week zoom call where it’s live, and so I get on and teach live that way the students can like ask their questions.

[00:35:24] And even after the one hour of coaching on that specific topic, then we’ve got 30 minutes of Q and A, that’s optional. They don’t have to stay for that, but they always do because it’s valuable time. So it’s just once the week. It’s on Sunday afternoon. I give them their topic for the week and it comes with just like a homework checklist.

[00:35:41] Hey, these are the things you want to tackle to get this accomplished. And then that’s what they work on throughout the week. And they can always drop their questions or if they’re stuck, they can get feedback in the Facebook group where all the students are. And we’re like one big, encouraging little supportive family.

[00:35:56] It’s so precious. And I love my [00:36:00] students way more than I just, I love the whole process more than I expected to. Once we graduate, so like once the week is over, they’ve got the Facebook group and they also can schedule a one on one call with me. They have four of them X like available to them throughout the course.

[00:36:15] That way they never get stuck or overwhelmed. And then when the whole program is over. Really by, by week five, they’ll have their first episode up. The course is, it takes 10 weeks just to get all the extra learning in. But they can start sharing their episodes by week five, if they’re on track with what we’re learning.

[00:36:32] And then when they graduate, a lot of my students were like, I don’t want to say goodbye. How do I keep coaching? Can we learn more things? You know, cause it is, it’s the bare bones. it’s kind of kamikaze. I throw you in deep. I teach you all the things. But you can only learn so much in a certain amount of time.

[00:36:49] Right. And so there’s still so many things to learn. I’m still learning and I’ve been doing it for years. And they wanted to keep growing. So I created a podcast network and it’s called Imagine Media Podcast Network [00:37:00] off of the scripture Ephesians 3:20, that says ,”that to him, who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask, think, or imagine.” and so that’s, so that’s built off of, and they can come into that. It’s just an annual fee or a monthly fee. And it’s very minimal. And we do once a month coaching and every week I kind of just dropped little valuable pieces that can help them achieve their goal, whether we’re working on monetization or building your email list or networking and growing your show, whatever it is.

[00:37:23] And so that’s been a real blessing as well. And for anybody who doesn’t have 10 weeks. I have two other options. If they want to do it at their own pace, and maybe they want to take longer than 10 weeks, or they want to just do it fast and get it done. I have a digital course, which is the videos from the mastermind and they can just do that on their own time.

[00:37:43] And that’s the more budget friendly approach. Then we’ve got the mastermind. And then I have a two day jumpstart. So if they are just like, Ain’t nobody got time for 10 weeks, let’s get the sucker done. Then I can do it in two days. I come to them. If travel allows depends on how far [00:38:00] away they are, but if travel allows that I come to them and in two days I will take their headshots.

[00:38:05] I’ll create their artwork for them. I’ll do their branding for them. I get the equipment to them before I ever show up and I get them physically set up in two days. And it’s a lot of learning. So they need to come with a coffee in hand. It is a lot of learning. But that comes with an automatic membership for their first year into my podcast network.

[00:38:26] And so those are the three options, the digital course, the 10 week mastermind and the two day jumpstart. 

[00:38:31] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s excellent. Wow. Yeah, for sure. That that third option. Oh my goodness. You better be ready to go. But but that just sounds so fantastic that you’re offering those different options for people to choose what works best for them.

[00:38:46] So I love that for sure. And I think that you said you had a special that you wanted to make 

[00:38:53] If you want to go ahead and share that. 

[00:38:55] Jenilee Samuel: Yes, absolutely. So Desiree, her name is the coupon [00:39:00] code that if you sign up, you hear this episode and you’re like, I think I want to do the mastermind or even the the two day jumpstart, then you can use this coupon code.

[00:39:09] When you sign up and register, it’ll save you $200. And so that’ll also let us know who came because they were listening to Desiree’s podcast. So it allows us to keep track of where you come from. But it also saves you some money, the listener. And so if you would like to do that, I think I gave Desiree a couple links that are in the show notes.

[00:39:27] There’s the freebie, the seven step checklist, but then there’s also a link that you’ll find down there. It’s JavawithJenpodcast.org and it has to be, ORG if you do COM, it’ll take you to my website. So do org and that’ll take you to a page where you can sign up to book a call with me. If you’d like to ask some questions and just kind of get into the nitty gritty of the program and find out which one is the best fit, and then I can help you get signed up from there.

[00:39:51] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, thank you very much for making that offer available for the listeners. I appreciate it. I appreciate your time. It’s been [00:40:00] fantastic before we go. I always like to ask the guests if there’s any books that they’ve read or are reading that have been beneficial or influential that you would like to share with the listeners, or if there’s any other podcasts that you’d like to share that have been helpful for you.

[00:40:15] Jenilee Samuel: Oh my gosh, so many resources I could give you right now. Well, how about for practical for books, we’ll go with the day planner and I’ll give you the link. And so that day planner that they can get from Amazon. But if you’re a reader and you’re like. So many books, so little time, then this would be my recommendation.

[00:40:33] There’s an app called Headway. Have you heard of it? 

[00:40:36] Desiree Stanley: I have not. 

[00:40:37] Jenilee Samuel: Okay. Headway is amazing. It’s basically an app where you can either listen to or read through a book in about 15 to 20 minutes. Oh. It’s basically the footnotes of the book is what you’re getting. So if there’s like a lot of business books I want to get through, it dials it down to the most nutritious parts of the book.

[00:40:58] And so you get kind of the [00:41:00] skeleton of it. So then it actually helps me decide, do I want to get the real book, like the actual book and just really dive into it deeper, or maybe those nuggets were sufficient and I got the wisdom it was offering. And so I think last year I read something like. 52 books just in that app that doesn’t include books.

[00:41:16] I read outside of the app. So Headway is what it’s called. It’s amazing. 

[00:41:21] Desiree Stanley: Okay. Yeah, for sure. I’ll include that in the show notes and I’m going to take a look at that myself because that does sound like a fantastic option. And is there any podcasts you like to share? 

[00:41:31] Jenilee Samuel: Oh, yes. two that I love for business and all of that is Amy Porterfield, her podcast.

[00:41:37] I think it’s Marketing Made Easy. I think that’s it. And then Jenna Kutcher, the Goal Digger Podcast. I love both of them. They’re both like when I listened to them, I’m like, Lord, can you please help them be my friend one day? can we be friends one day?

[00:41:51] I just love them. They’re the best. So I recommend both of those. 

[00:41:54] Desiree Stanley: Oh, fantastic. And I’ll include those in the show notes as well. I do listen to Jenna [00:42:00] Kutcher’s as well, and she’s fantastic. Love her show. So yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you again, Jenilee. It’s been wonderful. I have so enjoyed our conversation today.

[00:42:10] Lastly, I would like to have you share where people can reach out to you. You’ve shared the website, you’ve shared where they can reach you for the mastermind. Is there like an Instagram or anywhere else that you’d like to share that people can follow your journey and your story? 

[00:42:27] Jenilee Samuel: Yeah, absolutely. If you guys would like to follow me, I am most likely on Instagram.

[00:42:33] I have a Facebook page. You can jump over there, but I really give my attention to Instagram. It just feels. I don’t know, more tangible, easier to get ahold of people. And so my handle is just Java with Jen with one N only one, and you can find me on Instagram and then we can connect from there.

[00:42:49] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that. And again, I’ll put that in the show notes for the listeners for easy access. Jenilee thank you again so much. I so appreciate your time [00:43:00] and all the information that you’ve shared. And it’s just been wonderful. Thank you again. 

[00:43:06] Jenilee Samuel: Thank you for having me. It’s been an honor.

[00:43:08] Desiree Stanley: Well, we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:43:10] Jenilee Samuel: Okay. Sounds good. 

____________

POK_Ali Flynn Podcast_08_23_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my special guest, Ali Flynn. Welcome to the show, Ali. I am so excited to have you on today. 

[00:00:12] How are you? 

[00:00:14] Ali Flynn: So good. Thank you so much for having me. We were discussing at the start, how this is the first good timing that I’ve had with anyone overseas.

[00:00:22] So I’m super excited to be recording at a normal time when I’m awake and haven’t got up in the middle of the night. 

[00:00:29] Desiree Stanley: I know that’s fantastic. I’m so glad it worked out for both of us. Ali is the founder of Tri Altitude Fitness and Performance. And she also has her own podcast and that’s Challenges That Change Us.

[00:00:44] And we’re going to be talking about those and very specifically a couple of major things that happen in your life that has impacted your your life in your direction. And so why don’t you go ahead and tell us to start? What it was that [00:01:00] sort of prompted you to launch the Tri Altitude Performance?

[00:01:04] Ali Flynn: Well, that’s a big question. So I have a background in psychology and law. That was what I studied my undergrad in. And then I worked in mental health for quite some time with children and young people that have been sexually assaulted or living on the streets. And so really, really love that.

[00:01:21] And then had three little girls of my own. So I stepped away from that therapy work just because it was so intense and I didn’t know that I had the capacity at that point in time to be able to be there for my clients. And after my second little one was born, I was looking for how I could still help people.

[00:01:39] You know, I was like, if I’m not going to go back into therapy right now, what else can I try? And that’s when the gym I was working at asked me if I’d consider coming and being a personal trainer, which I’d never considered. And I was like, yeah. I can do that. What does that look like? And over here in Australia, it’s like a six month TAFE course.

[00:01:56] So I went and did that and started becoming a personal trainer. [00:02:00] From there I did my next certificate, which meant I could work one on one with people and another gym in our little town reached out to me and said, would you consider opening a business here? And you can have access to the clients access to this room.

[00:02:13] We won’t charge you anything. If you’d consider doing that, and that was. Yeah, my business started, I had never in my wildest dreams ever considered running a business, nor did I come from a family of business owners. And I had a really good conversation with one of my friends about business being like, is this something I should do?

[00:02:31] You know? And he said, look, it’s high reward, low risk. What have you got to lose? And that’s where it started. So. I went into the gym, I opened my own business in fitness and we’ll talk about this a little bit later, but I had a, I had a stroke about six weeks into it. And then after my stroke, that’s when I started to develop this next company that we’re talking about Tri Altitude performance.

[00:02:54] So post stroke, I grew three companies and the international podcast. And it was part of [00:03:00] my healing journey. It was part of my recovery. They are all vehicles on how I can help people. They’re just different vehicles. Thank you. 

[00:03:07] Desiree Stanley: Right. Yeah, that’s amazing. And really interesting how it’s such a shift, although it still remains in that realm of helping people, right?

[00:03:16] Whether it was through therapy or through physical means, you’re still helping people, that’s amazing. And that this also was something that helped you during this difficult time in your life as well. And so let’s go ahead and talk then about what it was that you were working with the clients in the therapy side, because we had talked before about DISC and the personality profiling.

[00:03:43] And so tell us a little bit about that and what that means exactly. 

[00:03:48] Ali Flynn: Yeah. So my, the reason I got into psychology in the first place is because I grew up with quite a lot of violence around me as a child sexual violence, physical violence, verbal violence, emotional violence.

[00:03:58] So from there, [00:04:00] I got really interested in human behavior. From a very young age, I started to notice how people moved, what they said. What was unsaid and unspoken in the room. And that’s what led me into psychology. And that’s how I found DISC profiling. It’s a type of personality profiling. There’s lots out there.

[00:04:17] They’re all fabulous. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. What I love about DISC more than anything is that. It has a really good language that everyone that I work with tends to remember four, five, six, seven years later the companies I work with, I often get people coming back around and saying.

[00:04:35] I still use this. I still use the strategies because it’s got everyday language that we can kind of digest and it really works on turning conflict into collaboration. Like I say to people, you know, that moment that you’re sitting there and you’re watching someone do something and you think, what on earth are they doing or why are they doing it that way?

[00:04:55] Or if I was doing that, it would look very different. And that’s sort of like, [00:05:00] we’re speaking Latin and they’re speaking French and we don’t quite understand why they’re doing what they’re doing, how they’re doing, what they’re doing, what’s driving and motivating that behavior. So DISC allows us to start to unpack that.

[00:05:12] It allows us to start to gain self awareness around what we do and why we do it. Awareness around why other people perhaps do what they do. And then how we bridge that. How we truly start to appreciate. Why other people do it differently and where their genius lane is and why it looks so different to ours and how we can capitalize and maximize on that.

[00:05:32] Desiree Stanley: That’s amazing. And really let’s dig into that a little bit more because I know that DISC stands for something and each letter of the word is different things. And so why don’t you go ahead and tell us about that? 

[00:05:47] Ali Flynn: Yeah. So I normally start explaining this. If you think about it like a circle with a cross through the middle anyone that sits at the top of the circle is like big picture strategy, fast paced, dynamic.

[00:05:59] [00:06:00] So the bottom. I always think about more detailed focus. Over to one side. So over to the right is more people focus. So they make decisions and prioritize people. And then over to the left, they prioritize and think about tasks. So you can start to divide it up in that very simple way. And then we start to look at the quadrant.

[00:06:19] So D stands for dominance. Thanks. And anyone that sits in that category is really driven and ambitious and loves a good challenge, loves winning, quite competitive, can be quite robust. And you know, one of the challenges to that is at times they can seem to steamroll over someone to get what they want because they’re so results driven action and results and what’s in it for me.

[00:06:44] And we need those people, right? Because they’re the ones that climb multiple mountains. They’re the ones that are fast paced. They’re the ones that can take multiple projects and really get momentum at the start. So that’s kind of in that D category. And then we move over to the I category, which is an influencer, and [00:07:00] they’re more focused on big picture and people.

[00:07:02] So they’re really dynamic as well, but they’re more extroverted. And, you know, I often think you hear them before you see them. They’re very expressive in the way that they talk. They use body language. They’re really focused on people and energy in the room. They often smile a lot and they tend to use and rely on their gut.

[00:07:23] So instead of looking at the facts and the detail, they’ll be like, Oh, this feels like something I should do. Or this feels right, or I can see that that person’s not quite, something’s going on for them. I might just go over and ask. Yeah. So one of the challenges with the high I’s that they lack that detail.

[00:07:40] So sometimes they’re so fast paced and so quick moving and so quick to put the hands up and say, yes, I’m in, they forget to lay it with the smarts. So that’s when that can become quite challenging for them because our greatest strength is by far our greatest weakness. So what makes us thrive and.

[00:07:57] Brilliant in this world can also pull us [00:08:00] under at times. And, we talk about that when we talk about DISC, it’s like no one quadrant is better than the other. No one trait is better than the other. It’s about us understanding and unpacking the traits so that we know when they serve and work for us and are resourceful as opposed to unresourceful or challenging or making things harder than they need to be.

[00:08:23] So they’re the top two D and I, and then we come down to the bottom of the quadrant. So there’s the S which is steady and they keep the peace. They’re calm, they look for long term stable relationships. So where they’re still about people, they’re not so much about multiple people and making fast, quick interactions with people.

[00:08:43] They’re about long term stable relationships. You know, when you’re in a workplace and you’ve got the people that are just, they’re calm and they like to make sure that everyone’s right. And they take a little longer to make decisions usually, so they can be indecisive at times. Sometimes they can find it hard to change.

[00:08:58] So if they don’t have all the [00:09:00] details, if they don’t know the why, then the change can be like, huh, I don’t know how I feel about that because they’re looking for steadiness and consistency. And then we move over to the C’s, which is conscientiousness. And that’s really typical of someone that sits in the C space is analytical, reserved, detailed focus.

[00:09:20] So they’re more logistical, systematic and analytical. I sort of think about like, A perfectionist, you know, where they like quality over quantity. So they’re not going to necessarily speak up unless they know that what they’re saying is right. They’re not just going to use words willy nilly. And they’re not just going to throw ideas out there.

[00:09:39] They’re going to have thought about it, be really considered and they’re really great at finishing projects. So, you know, that last 10% that just really lifts it up and makes it really professional. Someone that sits in that category can really help in that space because they, they prioritize quality. And they prioritise finishing things and they prioritise perfectionism.

[00:09:59] [00:10:00] Yes, that’s a very loose way of saying we talk about this for like days. That’s like in 20 minutes. 

[00:10:05] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, no, that, that was fantastic. I’m really a great way to explain those different quadrants, as you said, because really we are kind of a piece of all of those, right? Just, we have more like a higher level of.

[00:10:21] Of each quadrant, or maybe multiple quadrants, right? And I can certainly see how the interaction between people who are the different, personality types, if you will, could cause some you know, problem in the workplace or problem in the home or with families, because you maybe don’t see that side of it.

[00:10:41] As well, because it’s not your, you know, forte and, and so understanding how, somebody may be in this other quadrant could maybe make it a little bit easier in relationships in the workplace and so on. Right. 

[00:10:56] Ali Flynn: Yeah. And it’s really what we find easier and where [00:11:00] our energy lies. So, you know, anyone can shift a mold between the quadrants, but it just takes a little more energy from us.

[00:11:05] I talk about, you know, if you’re a teacher. And it’s getting to report writing time and you’re in the detail and you find that exhausting, then potentially you don’t sit in the C space. But if you’re someone that thrives on that and loves that, but finds parent teacher interviews a little bit challenging in Australia, that’s where you go in and you actually talk to people about it.

[00:11:23] Then perhaps you sit down in that lower quadrant, but it is, most people are a combination of two with maybe one or two priorities in the third where we usually get most frustrated is where we have the least amount of traits. So for example, if you sit in the ID space or the idea space and someone sits in the seat, we often don’t understand why they’re doing what they’re doing or why they’re taking that little bit longer or why they’re so focused on the detail.

[00:11:51] It doesn’t make sense in our world, but when we can truly appreciate that, that is what we need. And then that is where the absolute gold comes from. That’s when [00:12:00] the magic really happens. 

[00:12:01] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah, that’s excellent. Thank you for going into all the detail on that and really kind of filling in some of the gaps there in understanding because it’s really important, understanding somebody else’s position and perspective really is is very important in that the communication and the relationship and having a good, solid, good Ties and an effective workplace if, if we’re talking about a workplace.

[00:12:33] So that was awesome. 

[00:12:34] Ali Flynn: What we use it for is a tool for dialogue, not diagnosis. So it’s like, it’s just a tool that we use. Like if you go and learn your Six Love Languages. Or your Six Human Needs, or you learn a prioritizing skill, like an impact in these, and if all these words, everyone’s like, I don’t know what she’s talking about.

[00:12:51] Look them up because you’ll find them online and they’re all free. But they’re just, it’s a tool that we use. Like if you think of a jigsaw puzzle. DISC is just one piece of that puzzle, [00:13:00] but the more we get, the more pieces we get of that puzzle, the more we can see the landscape and the more quality we can bring to our lives and our relationships with others.

[00:13:08] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Awesome. And so are you using this now also in, in the work that you’re doing with the the Tri Altitude Performance or, I mean, cause you, you’ve mentioned three businesses that you’re operating and the podcast, which is, you know, just phenomenal. So are you using that in also the, these other companies, or was that strictly when you were just doing the therapy?

[00:13:33] Ali Flynn: No, we do it. We do a lot. So personally, I use it on an everyday basis. I use it with my staff, my clients and my children and my husband, like I live and breathe in the DISC space. And I’m constantly like having language around that, but we actually run courses usually a four hour workshop or a full day.

[00:13:49] And then we have a series of workshops where we go into corporate space and we help people understand themselves. And then the people that they’re working with their colleagues, and then how we can start to bridge that gap and [00:14:00] then give them a really nice framework for communicating. So if that’s not your natural way of communicating, if you’re someone that likes to send an email and put all the detail in, how do we help you at times take some of that detail out, or if you’re someone that doesn’t put all the detail in and you’re just really high level, big picture, fast paced, and you don’t think to add the detail, how do we help support you to do that?

[00:14:22] Yeah. So we do, we use it a lot in Tri Altitude Performance. I probably run about at the moment I’m running one a week, one workshop a week. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely love it. 

[00:14:32] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s excellent. And you know, it’s kind of funny how you mentioned about the emails because I find that sometimes I’m just like quick sentences and then send and then sometimes I’m like, Oh, wait, wait, before you send that reread what they said, make sure you’re answering all the things that they’re talking about.

[00:14:50] They need an answer on and I go back and fill in more detail. And then I take so much time going back and adding so much detail. It’s like, there’s got to be a [00:15:00] middle spot that I can find. That would be just right. 

[00:15:03] Ali Flynn: I think that’s asking the person, right?

[00:15:05] Like, so we often don’t know. So sometimes we need to check in, like, how was that for you? Did that work? Did you need more from me or did you need less from me? 

[00:15:12] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, let’s talk then about maybe some lessons that you’ve learned along the way that you use to help people in this manner with, with the DISC training.

[00:15:26] Ali Flynn: Yeah. Okay. So well, emails is definitely one of them perhaps the best place to start for your listeners is to think about. Some situations that they found challenging recently in the workplace. So what do they look like? And when you start to think back through, is there a kind of pattern starting to emerge?

[00:15:43] So is it consistently with one person or perhaps is it a consistent with something that you do in the workplace? For example, if you’ve got to hand in reports at the end of every month, and that’s when you start to feel that anxiety, or that’s when you start to shut down. So once you’ve sort of… A [00:16:00] bit of a step back, a bit of a reflection on, Oh, when do I feel uncomfortable?

[00:16:04] When do I feel stressed or vulnerable? What is it about that situation? So what is it about that? That makes me feel uncomfortable and what do people notice and see in my behavior? So am I someone that will attack out or am I someone that will go quiet? Am I someone that will talk more, talk less? Like, what does it look like when I start to notice?

[00:16:27] Those situations and then starting to think about, okay, so what is the other person? What are they experiencing? What’s their perspective? What outcome are they trying to achieve? And why is it not working between us? And have we had the conversation because so often I think we just get on the run and we’re just doing it as we do it, you know, like life is busy, right.

[00:16:48] For all of us. And we often forget to come back in and check in with the person and say, Hey, you know how we did this the other day, I kind of left feeling a bit blah or I kind of left feeling a little bit [00:17:00] frustrated. Can we unpack that? Can we have a chat about that? It’s not about you. I just want to make sure that, you know, how can we do that differently next time?

[00:17:06] So we don’t both walk away feeling like this. And so that revisiting and that coming back and having a language, that’s where DISC really helps because it externalizes it from us as the human. We don’t necessarily take it so personally when we see it up on a page, on a one page and we’re like, ah, right.

[00:17:25] So it’s just, we’re just different. It’s not an attack. It’s not a criticism. It’s just, I do it differently. And then we’ve got a language. We’ve got a shared language that we can come in and have those conversations about. I know my team, they call me Violet. I’m in that high D space that really like get shit done space.

[00:17:43] And my team had permission to say to me, can you please put Violet away today? Can you just pop her away? Cause I really need that softer side of you. And I really appreciate that because I can get really task driven and results driven, especially in the office. And by [00:18:00] them saying that and calling me on that allows me to either say to them, do you know what?

[00:18:05] We actually need to get this done. We’re on a tight deadline. What do you need from me now? If we’re going to really get this done or I can soften, soften my shoulders, soften my hands, because usually I’m quite uptight when I’m in that, that sort of space. And then I usually think they need something from me.

[00:18:23] So let me connect in with them, ask them how they are, ask them what’s going on for them, ask them what they need to set themselves up for success for that day. So it just kind of alerts me. To change my behavior a little bit or change the way I communicate a little bit so that we can both work really productively together and get the outcome that we’re both coming in to do.

[00:18:41] Yeah.

[00:18:43] Desiree Stanley: Oh, yeah. That’s wonderful. Thank you very much. That was fantastic. And you did give some really good pointers there that I think everybody can take away and it’s, you know, sitting back and reflecting what’s happening internally with me right now and, you know, what’s happening with the other person.

[00:18:58] And I think that that’s a [00:19:00] fantastic starting place for everybody, right? 

[00:19:03] Ali Flynn: Yeah. Yeah. Being aware of what your emotional pattern is, you know, what’s your emotional signature and when is it on repeat and are you aware of it? And what can you be putting in place if you don’t want it to look like that in that moment?

[00:19:16] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. Well, let’s go ahead and transition now and talk a little bit about, as you mentioned in the beginning that you had had a stroke and at what age was this for you that this happened and what kind of led up to it? And then how was your rehabilitation after?

[00:19:36] Ali Flynn: Yeah. So I was 32 when it happened. I had three kids under three and a half. My baby was still on the boob. And this is when I just started that fitness business. So we’re about six weeks in, I’d finished my psych degree. I’d finished my post grad. I had two little kids on the ground or three little kids on the ground.

[00:19:52] And I was kind of just doing the mom thing with a tiny business on the side, like a hobby. And I went up to the bathroom one day [00:20:00] to get dressed, to go and run a bootcamp. And I got this headache on my left and pins and needles down my right. And when I say headache, I mean, like in that moment, I thought I was going to die.

[00:20:10] Like it was so significant that I knew that I was in serious trouble. And I screamed out to my husband and he walked up to the bathroom. And he knew straight away , like whatever it was about that situation, we both clicked in. And I remember thinking I’m having a stroke followed by no, I’m 32 and super fit.

[00:20:28] As if, and he says he had exactly the same thought she’s having a stroke. Oh no, she’s so fit. She’s so healthy, like no way. And he, luckily he worked at the hospital, so he drove us into town, but he put the three kids in the car. And I just remember looking at the speedo and he was going about, 60 Ks over the speed limit.

[00:20:46] And I thought we’re not going to make it like, we’re not going to get there. And that’s because he works in the hospital. He’s got the understanding of how serious it is with a stroke and how quickly you need to get in. And we arrived at ED. And by the time I got there, I couldn’t recognize anyone, anyone that he [00:21:00] worked with couldn’t recognize my mom.

[00:21:01] I lost my short term memory. So the damage that happened in my brain, I had two strokes here locally in our rural town before they airlifted me to Sydney, which is a major city in Australia and got me to a big hospital. And that meant that I lost my short term memory. And I also lost my vision in both quadrants in my eyes and I couldn’t read and write couldn’t stand on one leg.

[00:21:22] I knew who I was. I knew I had three kids. I knew who my husband was, but I knew nothing about the day. So every day I’d wake up and I’d be like, where am I? Why am I here? What on earth has happened? You know, like, it was just a memory of a sieve. Anything that was new information went in one ear and straight out the other ear.

[00:21:40] Like it’s, it’s interesting. My mom has dementia now and I see it in her. And so I totally understand that there’s no rhyme or reason or prioritizing to the memory. It’s like, things just go in and go out. There’s no kind of grab. There’s no like cementing in your brain. It just like floats in and floats out as if it never happened.

[00:21:58] So I spent about four months in hospital[00:22:00] and initially I thought I was fighting for my life. So it was very much crisis situation or hands on deck. And then as the weeks and months passed, they realized that I had a rare brain condition that people only get for four months of your life, supposedly, and only 5% result in stroke.

[00:22:14] So. They’re like, we just need to get you through this four months and then we focus on rehab and it should never happen again. So very, yeah, very unusual, unique circumstances quite a rare brain condition. And it took months, years to kind of feel like I got back to even a seven out of 10.

[00:22:33] So the months following the hospital, like having a sign on my front door that said, don’t walk out. You have three children. Because I knew I had children. I just didn’t know they were with me. I didn’t know they were in the house. So I would like walk out, leave the door open and my baby would crawl out onto the main road.

[00:22:48] Or my husband would get home. He’d say like, have you fed the kids? And I’d have to look around to see if there were plates, if there were dirty plates, cause I would have no idea. And there’s no kind of tracking back, [00:23:00] like for the audience, you know, when you lose something and you think, Oh, where did I last have that?

[00:23:06] Oh, I had it last night. When I got home, I took my jacket off. I walked into the kitchen and I popped something in that drawer, perhaps in that area. That’s what I didn’t have the ability to do. So I’d be like, Oh, I don’t know. And it’s just like this blankness. It’s like a blank A4 sheet of paper. There’s no kind of like things to kind of grasp on to kind of map your way back to something or an event or an experience or a person.

[00:23:30] So knowing people’s names, I still struggle with that. Like I can meet someone like, if I met you tomorrow, I’d be like, Oh,

[00:23:36] so that’s, that’s been really hard as a big, when we talked about DISC, I’m a people person, I love people and relationships are so critical in my world. I, I connection and people are just one of my top priorities and not remembering people makes it really hard on a day to day basis. I feel like I’m letting them down and I feel like I’m letting myself down at times by not knowing them.

[00:23:57] Yeah. And then I built the company. [00:24:00] So from there, part of my rehab was like, how do I do this? Like, how do I get some sort of life back? And what does that look like? And who am I now? Like that’s who I was, but I’m never going to be that person again. Like my road has suddenly changed. I was walking on gravel before and now I’m walking on bitumen.

[00:24:18] So what does that look like? And how do I find joy and how do I find passion and how do I find contentment with this new framework? And that’s where I just started step by step one. I know we hear it a lot, but it really worked for me one step at a time. If I can’t stand on one leg today, what can I do today?

[00:24:37] That’s going to get me one step closer to standing on one leg. And once I can balance on one leg, what’s one thing I can do. That’s going to get me one step close to being able to walk around the block. With my reading, like I used to sit down and read those kids books with my eldest child, who was by this stage, about five.

[00:24:53] And I’d struggle on words and she would help me. And I remember thinking I need to go to kindergarten with her and start over, but [00:25:00] she starts at kindergarten and she gets to year 12 and then she’ll go to uni and she’ll go on. So I can do that too. Like if I just start where she’s starting at kindy and slowly moment by moment, day by day, week by week, do that one thing.

[00:25:14] It’s going to add up. And then, yeah, just over a couple of years started to improve, started to grow companies, fell in love with business. And I’ve been really fortunate, amazing people around me, amazing clients. And yeah, it’s definitely set me up for success. When there’s curveballs in business, as we all know, when there’s problems that we feel like, Oh, how are we going to solve that?

[00:25:37] Just always come back to that moment. Okay. Let’s take stock. Where are we? What do we know? You know, if you think of a traffic light, if we’re in the red. We don’t need to get to the green today. We just need to edge a little closer to the orange. So what’s the problem we’re dealing with? What’s the beast?

[00:25:51] What do we know? What can we control? What can’t we control? And let’s get to work on the stuff we can control and let’s let go of the shit that we can’t control, you know?[00:26:00] There’s no, there’s no point giving energy and time and resource to something you can’t change. 

[00:26:05] Desiree Stanley: Wow, Ali, that’s just, just phenomenal.

[00:26:09] Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And it’s so incredible. What, what a journey that you have been on and to be where you are now and running these businesses and running your podcast and helping so many people. Where you were at that moment to now is just an amazing accomplishment and wow, it’s just fantastic.

[00:26:35] So thank you so much for sharing that with us and the points that you made about just what’s one step. I can do today to get me forward applies to everyone that’s in a difficult position or in a difficult time in their life. What’s just one thing I can do right now to move me forward. And that’s so great to remember.

[00:26:57] So thank you for bringing that up[00:27:00] . Amazing. 

[00:27:01] Ali Flynn: And I was just thinking, you said that also like, let’s not underestimate our attitude. You know, no one chooses that for us. And we get to pick that every single day that we wake up before we put our two feet on the ground. We choose the attitude that we’re going to walk in the world with and how we’re going to show up.

[00:27:14] And, and it’s not permanent. So we can change that throughout the day. You know, if it gets a bit sticky or it gets a bit rough, or you’re having a bit of a challenge, just come back and go, what attitude am I showing up with now? And how do I want to be in this world? And how do I want people to experience me?

[00:27:27] And am I, am I there for myself through this moment? Because attitude is key and it really does go a very, very long way for recovery and building businesses and facing problems head on. 

[00:27:38] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. That’s just I’m still processing everything that you said, because I, I can’t imagine as a mother myself my daughters are grown now, but being at that age, you know, with what you were going through is just.

[00:27:57] It’s so powerful. I mean, wow. I just have to tell [00:28:00] you that was just, it’s amazing what you’ve accomplished. Really, really amazing. 

[00:28:07] So you shared about what you were doing in the rehab and something that you had mentioned to me is that you also completed in an iron man.

[00:28:17] And I’m just like flabbergasted because I know how difficult an iron man competition is. And so tell us about that. And that was post stroke. Yes.

[00:28:30] Ali Flynn: Yeah. So that was actually a moment in ICU, I was lying in bed and I looked around and I thought I’m the only person in here that can walk.

[00:28:39] Like am I actually going to get out of here? And I had this real like, what am I doing here? Like, why am I still here? And it was in that moment that I made this decision that I was going to be a triathlete. And in that moment, let me be clear. I had never swum in the ocean. Like I didn’t go into ocean swims.

[00:28:54] I’d been like a kid that swam in the ocean, but never like go into a K or a 2k. I didn’t own a bike. [00:29:00] I’ve never like ridden a road bike and I’d only started running about. Maybe five months before my stroke. So I don’t know where that idea came from, but I was committed to it. I was like, I am going to be recovered when I’m a triathlete.

[00:29:11] You know, when we just kind of make these big, broad stroke statements and we kind of live through them. And so it took me two years to do an Olympic triathlon post stroke to learn all of those things. When I first started to swim, I didn’t really know how to swim very well. I thought I was a good swimmer.

[00:29:27] And I went in this little competition locally. And when I got out of the pool, it was only 200 meters. Everyone else had gone. Cause I was so slow. And then I was like, Whoa, I’m going to need some help here. Like if I want to be a triathlete and swim in the ocean, I’m going to need a coach. So I went and got a swimming coach.

[00:29:44] And then I learned how to cycle a bike bought a bike and then learn how to cycle. And that first Olympic triathlon before the half iron, the very first one was the biggest one for me because it was something I’d committed to when I was in ICU. And two years later, it still makes me tear up today. I [00:30:00] got there and it was one of the proudest moments because it wasn’t about the event.

[00:30:04] It was about me knowing and showing my three girls that makes me cry. Now you can do hard things. You can do hard things when you put your mind to it. And you take it slowly and you take it over and you get the help and support that you need. You may not know how yet you may not know when yet, but you can do hard things.

[00:30:25] And there is no problem you can’t solve in this world. It might look different to how you thought you were going to solve it, but it’s all solvable. So I cried for my last 10 Ks of the run sobbing because I was just like, Oh, I cannot wait for my children to know this. And it was from there that I decided I was going to take it further and go and do the half iron.

[00:30:42] And that’s just, you know. Gets a little bit addictive. So then it just grew from there and it became part of, you know, physically I wanted to be as well as I could be. Mentally, I’d been doing a lot of training in that space, being a psych and working in the field and constantly doing PD, I felt like. I felt like mentally I’d really [00:31:00] flex that muscle a lot and there’s always more work to do.

[00:31:02] But the, the area that I really needed to work on now was my physical health. And so that’s where I really put my time and energy and focus in which is how the Ironman came in to play. 

[00:31:13] Desiree Stanley: Wow. Congratulations. Really, because those are some amazing accomplishments and amazing. In themselves, but even more so when you consider where you had been just two years before.

[00:31:26] So I applaud you and those amazing accomplishments. Congratulations. So Ali, to just kind of close out, I want to just have you talk briefly about the podcast that you have, which is Challenges That Change Us and how that came to be, why you decided to launch that and kind of what you talk about on the show.

[00:31:47] Ali Flynn: It always makes me smile when someone asks a question in a podcast, like when you just ask that you’re like, so how did it come about? I’m like, well, there’s a big story there and we only have five minutes, but in a nutshell, I got quite sick again after my last half [00:32:00] Iron, and I got really sick and I have something called POTS, which people might be aware of, but what it means is when you stand up, your heart rate goes really high.

[00:32:07] There’s a lot more to it, but basically standing is hard and I became exercise intolerant and I thought I was dying. Genuinely because of my stroke, they thought my brain condition to come back. And I honestly thought I was dying a slow death and I wanted my kids to know that they’re not alone in this world.

[00:32:24] I wanted them to know the things that I’ve learned over the years in a counseling room on a PT floor, coaching people, I wanted them to understand that we all have self doubt. We all have like limits that we put on ourselves and we all feel like at times others are judging us.

[00:32:40] And that is okay. And we’re not meant to compare ourselves to others. We’re meant to be in our lane and our lane is great. Even with all the adversity that comes, like it’s, it’s the down days, the tough days, the hard days that make the good days so good, but we need to understand that. And so when I couldn’t stand up, I was like, the only thing I can do is talk right now.

[00:32:57] Right. Cause clearly I can talk underwater. [00:33:00] So that’s how my podcast started Challenges That Change Us. I was like, how do I find a voice and a platform that if I’m not here, my girls can still listen. And that I can still help people all around the world. And so it started from this little baby in my living room.

[00:33:17] I’m just going to start, I’m just going to give it a go. And whatever happens happens to this, you know, international podcast that we’re in the Australian charts and have been since the day we started. And I just talk to people about their adversity and their challenges and, and how they navigated them and what lessons they’ve taken away.

[00:33:32] And, you know, there’s a right strategy for the right person at the right time. And so you want to make sure you’ve got this really big life toolbox. Of strategies, of mantras, of support people, because you don’t know what you’re going to need to pull on when you need it. I did not know when I had my stroke that I was going to need my psych degree more than I’d ever needed it in my life.

[00:33:54] I did not know that I needed my PT coaching part of my personality that was like, just do the one thing, [00:34:00] but I already had them in my life toolbox. It was very easy to pull on them. It was a whole well of resources that I got to tap into. So that’s really what the podcast is about.

[00:34:10] How do I share stories? How do I decrease that isolation and how do I help fill up everyone else’s life toolboxes so that they. Can be anchored through the eye of the storm of adversity and come out thriving the other side. 

[00:34:23] Desiree Stanley: Yes. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So inspiring. Everything that you have shared has been truly inspiring.

[00:34:31] It’s inspired me and I hope it has inspired the listeners. I can’t imagine anyone not being inspired by your story and what you’re doing. So thank you for sharing that. And, and I did want to ask also, if there were any books that were beneficial for you during this time, or that you think are influential, that maybe the listeners want to take a look, check out and see if it’s something that can help benefit them.

[00:34:55] Ali Flynn: Yeah, definitely. Huge reader. Absolutely love it. And I think it doesn’t [00:35:00] matter whether you’re reading or listening to a podcast, but, you know, just allowing ourselves when we’ve got the space and time to fill our brains up with things that inspire us and fill our bucket up. And so I know one of the books that I looked at when I was well, I couldn’t read, so it was like a fair way along my recovery.

[00:35:15] Once I was reading again, was Limitless by Jim Kirk. And it’s a fabulous book for anyone that hasn’t read it. And I think the other one that I’d say is The Love Languages, which I briefly mentioned, if you haven’t done that, jump online. Do it’s a free quiz. You can just say, look up the love language quiz Gary Allen, and you can do that quiz now because it’s not a book, but it’s, but it’s something that can help change your life from where you are right now to how you relate and connect with other people.

[00:35:41] It’s one tool you can use right now that will fundamentally change. The rest of your life. 

[00:35:47] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. Great recommendations. And for sure, I’ll link that information in the show notes so that the listeners can easily access that. So thank you again, Ali. It has been so wonderful having you on the [00:36:00] show and you’ve just shared so much fantastic information and your knowledge and your story.

[00:36:06] Thank you so much. I so appreciate you being on the show with us today. 

[00:36:10] Ali Flynn: Thank you so much for inviting me on. It’s such a fabulous podcast. I’ve listened to so many of yours and I just know your listeners are taking so much away from each episode because it is, it’s the Pocket of Knowledge. It’s like pocket size information that you can just continue to grow and, and learn to live the life that you want to live and love the life that you want to live.

[00:36:30] Desiree Stanley: Absolutely. Well, Ali, if people want to follow your story, want to follow your podcast, what is the best way that they can do that? Is there an Instagram, Facebook, anything that you’d like to share now, please do so. 

[00:36:44] Ali Flynn: So I actually didn’t have any socials when I started my podcast. So anyone that goes on, you’ll see that I’m just starting Challenges That Change Us.

[00:36:51] It’s across every platform. Unless there’s platforms I don’t know about overseas, but as far as I know, we have lots of overseas listeners. So Challenges That Change Us, and we do have a Facebook [00:37:00] group under Challenges That Change Us community. And that’s probably where we put all the information for the podcast.

[00:37:06] on LinkedIn as well under Ali Flynn. So I would love for your listeners to reach out. If someone’s taken something away, if you want to know more information, that. I really do invite you to reach out, DM me or jump on the podcast and have a listen. We’ve always got things for off on there this week.

[00:37:20] We’re offering a six week resilience course. So there’s, there’s always little bite sized pieces or little nuggets that they can take away. 

[00:37:26] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you again for being on the show. It’s been just a pleasure to have you. Thank you. 

[00:37:36] Ali Flynn: Thank you so much for having me on the show.

[00:37:39] It’s so beautiful to meet you and, you know, thank you everyone that’s still listening. 

____________

POK_Brooke Bownes Podcast_08_16_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my special guest, Brooke Bownes. Welcome to the show, Brooke. I’m so honored to have you on. Welcome. How are you today? 

[00:00:15] Brooke Bownes: Thank you for having me. I’m very well. Thank you. Looking forward to our chat today.

[00:00:20] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. And so Brooke is a certified trauma informed coach, and she is ICF certified coach, and she can talk about that a little bit more as we get going. But our conversation today, I hope is really going to be informative for people to understand childhood trauma, how you see those effects later in life and, and Brooke, you’re the expert on this.

[00:00:46] So. Why don’t you go ahead and just jump right in and tell us what was the path that led you down this road and the decisions that kind of created the pathway for you to become a trauma informed coach.[00:01:00] 

[00:01:00] Brooke Bownes: For my own life experience, really, I had a very traumatic childhood.

[00:01:05] I started off quite traumatic as I was being born. I was being strangled by my umbilical cord. So that caused complications. So that was the first trauma in my life. And the second one was, I’ve actually got a narcissistic mother who put me down at any point that she could possibly put me down to the point of where she would say, I didn’t even have the audacity to be born properly.

[00:01:25] You know, why couldn’t you be normal like other Children? I was ugly. I’d never amount to anything. Nobody would ever love me. I would never do anything in life. So, you know, every put down that she could think to do. I was heard that daily in, out every day. So that affected obviously a lot of my childhood and my self esteem and it created what were called inner child wounds and the four main core ones are not feeling good enough, not feeling worthy, not feeling lovable, not feeling important.

[00:01:54] So with those four going on. Every time I went to do something, it was like, well, I’m not worth it. [00:02:00] I’m not good enough. Who am I? I’m not important. Cause I’ve heard all my life that I can’t achieve anything. I can’t be anything. So it really affected me as I was growing up.

[00:02:08] And then I ended up in a narcissistic relationship. Which then made me kind of realize actually the common factor here is me. Maybe if I change, then the people around me would change. So I went heavily into working on my mindset, which I did really, really heavily, but it was that I’ve got the great mindset.

[00:02:26] I knew I’ve got the skills, I’ve got the knowledge, but there was something still stopping me from moving forward and doing those things. And I was, that was feel the fear and do it anyway. And I would build myself up and my heart would be pounding. My palms would be sweaty. I thought, why, because I’ve got this knowledge, I’ve got this skills, why is my body reacting so badly?

[00:02:45] And that’s when I come across like trauma and how trauma is stored in the body and how it can affect us in our, in our adulthood. So when I start to realize all those things with the trauma and started to release those, I then got to a stage where I could [00:03:00] feel the fear. Get curious where it comes from, process it, and then go on and enjoy doing whatever it was I wanted to do.

[00:03:06] And that’s what I want to have for other people, you know, especially that I work a lot with women. I know what it feels like to be that scared, shy little child who’s too frightened to speak out. My tagline is like, Scared to Stage. Where I talk on stage or talk on a lot of Zooms now, to spread the word about trauma and raise the awareness.

[00:03:24] And, and stop it being a taboo subject so that guilt and that shame isn’t there anymore because that’s what keeps us silent and what keeps it perpetuating because people aren’t speaking up about it and saying, yeah, I’ve been through trauma because a lot of people think, well, I’ve not had a major car crash or I’ve not been a soldier off fighting in a war.

[00:03:43] So I’m okay. But if there’s something in your life that’s stopping you moving forward, you can probably relate it back

[00:03:50] is said to somebody and like we were talking about my book I wrote a book about how to break through the self sabotage cycle. That’s for the viewers who can see it. [00:04:00] And I talk about a lady in there who when she was a seven year old child, she stood up in front of the class to do a sum on the board, and the teacher through the blackboard eraser at her saying, no, you’re wrong, you’re stupid, you can’t do maths.

[00:04:15] And that was her belief until she turned into her 50s, and she needed to have a maths exam to get a promotion, so she called me in said, look, I need your help. But she was very, very clever and great at maths, but she couldn’t see that because she’d got that trauma from that sentence. And because he said that sentence and her emotions, she was embarrassed at the time, formed a trauma in her body.

[00:04:37] And that thought and that belief was, well, the teacher is authoritarian, so he must be right. So I must be stupid at maths and can’t do it. 

[00:04:44] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Everything you just said is so powerful. And I want to touch on a couple of things. And first of all, thank you for sharing this story of your birth and your childhood, because I can’t even imagine how difficult that would [00:05:00] be to endure that every day so that you’re here now and sharing that so that others can help heal themselves is, is phenomenal and wonderful. But I want to touch on a couple of things and one that we often think that what we’ve been through is not big enough to be worthy of being called trauma.

[00:05:21] And I’ve had guests on previously who’ve talked about that kind of situation where you think it doesn’t qualify as trauma. And, you know, that’s not really the case. It’s really not about the size of the thing. It’s what is happening to you, right. And the effects it’s having on you. And so.

[00:05:41] That’s one thing I wanted to point out. And we can talk a little bit more about. But the other thing is the authoritarian, the person who is, you think knows more than you. And so you take their word for it and again, that happens so often we think this person knows better than me. They [00:06:00] must be right.

[00:06:01] Brooke Bownes: Absolutely. And especially in children, because up until the age of about seven, they haven’t got that critical faculty, to actually reason thinking, Oh, maybe the teacher had a bad day. Maybe he had an argument with his partner. Maybe, you know, he’s got some stress of his own, he’s got some worries and he’s just projecting that out.

[00:06:18] We just automatically as children think, Oh my goodness, we’re in the wrong. It’s my fault. It must be me. I must be useless. I must be no good. Or whatever that feeling is. So we don’t reason it like with my mother. You know, when I was little, I didn’t think, well, maybe she’s had a really bad childhood and maybe she’s having a bad day and maybe she’s stressed about something.

[00:06:36] I just thought, Oh, well, I must be a bad person to upset my mum so much every day. It must be me, you know, it must be something I’m doing. So then we turn into these people pleasers trying to please that person. So they don’t get angry and they don’t get upset. Which then in our adult life again affects us because we end up being people pleasers putting everybody else before us and not looking after ourselves and having that, that self [00:07:00] care.

[00:07:00] And it’s also as well, you see it with people or the doctor said, or the lawyer said or whatever, but actually you can always get a second opinion and check it out. And also trust your gut instinct because as children, I was talking to a client earlier today about this as children, they trust their gut instinct.

[00:07:17] If they’re tired, they sleep. If, if they’re hungry, they ask for something, they don’t keep putting it off thinking, well, I’m not important enough to eat or have any sleep. They just do whatever needs to be done. But as we grow up and our parents or whoever’s in authority around us put their beliefs and, and thoughts onto us, and they’ve got their own inner child wounds too.

[00:07:38] We believe them and then take them on as our own beliefs, like, like with my mother, for example, she’s got some huge inner child wounds, you know, narcissists have huge inner child wounds are so deep and so raw that they won’t actually admit they’ve got them. So they won’t actually. ask for any kind of help for them, but they will project it out and blame other people because that’s their way of dealing with it [00:08:00] and soothing and getting through their life.

[00:08:02] So it’s understanding that, well, especially when we’re like naught to seven, we’re very, very susceptible to like Take it in everything is truth. What people say to us. 

[00:08:12] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s a good point. You shared your book up on the screen. And so for those who are watching on YouTube, you’ll see that, but can you tell us for the listeners that the title of your book, and let’s talk a little bit about that.

[00:08:25] In a little bit more detail about the writing process and what that was like for you. And then also what the book is about. So if you would go ahead and share that. 

[00:08:35] Brooke Bownes: Yeah, well, that’s quite an interesting one because I have these mad, mad ideas in the shower and stuff and I kind of action them all about the action.

[00:08:42] And I decided that I wanted to write and publish a book in 90 days. And this is I decided it on the 28th of May, I thought, right I’m going to start it on the 1st of June because that’s when one of my granddaughters were born and I actually helped deliver on my daughter’s kitchen floor. So that’s another [00:09:00] story maybe for another podcast.

[00:09:02] And then I wanted to have it published by the 1st of September because that’s mine and my husband’s wedding anniversary. So I thought, right. How can I do it? Because I love to inspire people and get people to think differently about their lives, especially if they’re not happy that, okay, let’s think how you can think differently.

[00:09:18] So I thought, right, if I document this on Facebook, so every day I’d go on Facebook and kind of talk about the ups and downs of writing my book. I had no idea on the 28th of May, what I needed to do to write a book. I knew I’d got loads and loads of content I could put in it, I thought, what do I feel about books that I read, like all the self help books, they’re great, but there’s no like exercises at the end of them to make people sort of really think about what they’ve just read, so I wanted to have like an exercise at the end of each chapter.

[00:09:46] I ended up coming up with the idea of the acronym of self sabotage. And so each chapter, like the first chapter is S for self care. And the second one is emotions and loving yourself and then forgiveness, et cetera. So you can work your way through it. [00:10:00] And it’s got 12 chapters in it. But as it happened, as I sort of announced that I was going to write it, somebody, because I’m quite well known in my world, tech isn’t my thing.

[00:10:10] You know, give me a room full of a hundred people with issues and I’m in my glory, helping them sort it out, but give me something tech to do. And I’m like, Oh my goodness. So somebody offered to help me upload it onto Amazon. And then somebody said, well, I know a really good editor. And then my friend who just took some photographs for me, she’s a professional photographer, she’s actually a graphic designer as well, and she designs books for a major book company.

[00:10:32] She said, well, I’ll design your book cover. And it all kind of just fell into place. And I just every day did a bit of writing works out how many words I wanted to write. It’s like 30, 000 words. So I broke it down. Okay. 2, 500 words per chapter. So every day I set out and wrote a chapter in my book and then sent it off to the editor and et cetera.

[00:10:52] It was more difficult thinking about which photograph to use in the book, which font to use, what the title of it was going to be. So it [00:11:00] was like all these things that you don’t think about what’s the thickness of the book. So did I want like my name on the spine and the title on the spine or not, and what size was the book going to be and all these things.

[00:11:11] So the actual content of the book was probably the easiest thing to do about it, but, you know, you can either work your way through it and sort of feel like you’ve worked your way through that how to work through self sabotage by going through each chapter. Yeah. Or if you’ve got a specific problem, like a lot of my clients struggle with forgiving, and it’s like especially forgiving themselves, they can go straight to the chapter on forgiveness.

[00:11:35] Read that chapter and work through the exercise to help them to start that process of forgiving themselves and others if they want to as well. 

[00:11:43] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s wonderful. I love it. And I love that you shared about how writing the book itself wasn’t the difficult part because you have the knowledge and you have the experience and you have.

[00:11:54] What you wanted to share with others. It was choosing the size of the book or the font and the title and the [00:12:00] cover that was the most difficult part. So that’s, that’s a a funny aspect of it to consider because you’d sort of think that those would be the easier parts, but I love that you formulated it in a way that each chapter kind of focuses on a specific thing that you need to work on and that you’ve, you’ve done it in such a way that’s super clever.

[00:12:22] And having the exercises at the end, I think is incredibly beneficial because like you said, you can read through something, but unless you have sort of actionable steps or things that you really can, can you pick apart what you’ve just read and put it into place? What changed really happens. 

[00:12:42] Brooke Bownes: Yeah. But the most exciting thing for me, apart from having a book at the end of it.

[00:12:47] Was how I inspired other people because when I announced that I was going to write and publish a book in 90 days, I had so many messages saying, my goodness, you’re so brave. I could never do that. Or, you know, what’s made you think of doing that, but then people as, [00:13:00] as it was going along with saying, okay, you’ve inspired me to start writing my book, you’ve inspired me to start a business, you’ve inspired me to go for my dream job for my promotion.

[00:13:08] And one person even said, you’ve really inspired me to ask somebody out on a date. I’ve been kind of putting it off for a while, but you know, what’s the worst could happen? They can say no to me, but if I just ask him out for a cup of coffee. So to me, as far as I was concerned, the book was a success before it was even published because people were getting inspired.

[00:13:25] To think about what they could do, what they could achieve in their lives. And it wasn’t a case of a look at me, I wrote, published a book in 90 days. It was inspiring other people to think differently about themselves. And that’s what I’m all about. Now, if you’re not happy where you are, and if what you’re doing in your life isn’t serving you now.

[00:13:44] Get curious about that. Look at that. Think about what you really want to do in your life and work at how you can work towards that rather than being stuck in that place that you don’t feel inspired about. 

[00:13:54] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love how you’re saying, get curious about your life, about [00:14:00] what it is that you’re maybe not happy about.

[00:14:01] Because I think that we spend so much time just go, go, go dealing with everyday activities that we don’t pause and take the time to reflect on that and, and think like, what is it that’s happening right now? That I’m not pleased with or, or it’s not the direction I wanted to go. We don’t, we don’t take the time to do that.

[00:14:21] And so we can go just day by day, you know, living in that, sort of the hamster wheel, you know, of life. And instead of really looking at what do I want to do and how can I make that come about. Thank you for sharing that. And I love how it inspired people to really begin that process of, of attempting things that they maybe had been thinking about, but not brave enough to do.

[00:14:45] So I love that. 

[00:14:46] Brooke Bownes: Yeah. It’s also, if I had a pound or dollar for every time a client came to me as well, that’s the way it’s always been done in my family. So they carry on doing it, even if it doesn’t serve them, it may have served their [00:15:00] grandparents or the great grandparents and there may have been a reason for it.

[00:15:02] In fact, there’s a little story in the book about a grandparent and the parent doing things. And, then the partner of the granddaughter got curious and say, well, why are you doing it that way? I’ll go into the story about it. So if you want to find out that story, grab the book, but it’s, we don’t question it.

[00:15:19] It’s like, well, if my parents did it and my grandparents did it, that’s just the way our family does it. But actually it doesn’t have to be that way because it may have served your parents and your grandparents, but if it’s not serving you, making you happy and you don’t have to keep doing that, you know, just because it’s always been a family tradition.

[00:15:35] It doesn’t mean to say it has to stay that way with you and carry on because like with trauma that can go back seven generations so it’s like, okay, how can you stop it right now. I like with me, I’m the cycle breaker the trauma won’t carry on because I’ve got children and grandchildren now, and that trauma has stopped with me, it won’t pass on to any more generations.

[00:15:56] And that’s what I want women to think about in particular that. [00:16:00] They don’t have to live the life just because their mother and their grandmother, you know, were a certain way and they put everybody else first in their family. It doesn’t mean to say that you have to do that the way that doesn’t sit well with you.

[00:16:12] Desiree Stanley: Right. And really, when you think about how things were in the past, Versus how they are now. We’re talking about an entirely different world on all levels. And so what may have worked in the past doesn’t work now, it’s absolutely not going to work in the future. We have to look at, you know, what is life like now, and how can we go forward because we are dealing with an entirely different world.

[00:16:37] Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. That’s, that’s fantastic. And so let’s talk a little bit about how we can recognize the trauma and how we can start to deal with that. If we’ve experienced that in our past, what are maybe some things that you might. You might see evidence in your life of that.

[00:16:58] You could recognize [00:17:00] as this was related to a trauma. 

[00:17:02] Brooke Bownes: Yeah. So if you’re really big and like procrastinating, or you’ve got a big, like perfectionism and parts where you self sabotage a lot, they are signs that you’ve had some sort of trauma in your life because you don’t feel like you’re good enough and you don’t feel you’re worthy.

[00:17:18] And how I work is it’s like, we’ve got us as adults, as our true self, or we have our inner child. And then we have what we call is protector parts. And these protector parts will come and show up if they feel that your inner child is not feeling worthy or feeling good enough or feeling scared. And these protector parts can be anything like self sabotage, emotional eating, perfectionism, procrastination, anxiety, overwhelm, depression, all these things that are parts.

[00:17:45] So it’s our body giving us feedback and data to let us know that something isn’t quite right. So if you feel like, for instance, I work with a lot of women in business that want to do like a Facebook Live to help them to grow their business. They’re like, I’ve got the knowledge, I’ve got [00:18:00] experience, but as I go to do that Facebook Live and click the button, I think, what if I forget my words?

[00:18:03] You know, what if I get it wrong? But the minute they go, you know, and sort of tighten their shoulders and hold their breath, it’s the body’s sending a signal to the mind to say, uhoh, danger. Danger. Now our mind and our prefrontal cortex logically knows that we’ve got the skills and knowledge to do it, but our body’s feeling like it’s that six year old that’s gonna get in trouble for speaking out.

[00:18:25] Especially if you’re sort of like that midlife age where children should be seen and not heard, it was wrong to speak out and say things. So your body’s going to actually stop you from doing it. So it’s like there’s an alert system going on, like, Hey, right, self sabotage needs to jump in the protective part to protect that inner child.

[00:18:41] So you will end up self sabotaging. And I often tell the story about myself when my coach said to me, Go to a Facebook live on your personal profile. And I went, you know, it’s like I did everything that procrastinating part was a big, big part. And I did everything I could think of other than do that Facebook live, even to the [00:19:00] point of, and I’m sure everybody can relate to on the podcast.

[00:19:02] Everybody’s got that kitchen drawer. That’s a bit messy with odd pen tops and elastic band and an odd paper clip, you know, maybe an odd. I’ll conquer or something. Well, I even tidied out that drawer. So that was immaculately tidy. I’ll do that. And then I’ll do my Facebook live because my body was saying, Oh, if we speak out, that’s danger, we’re going to get into trouble.

[00:19:22] So it was stop a being and I was procrastinating, but once I realized what was happening, if then I worked with my clients to talk about those parts and, and get to know those parts and find out why they’re shown up. We can then reassure that in the child and do a lot of somatic reprogramming with the inner child.

[00:19:40] So you can move on and actually enjoy it. And it’s that again, that. Rather than feeling the fear and doing it anyway, notice that, that part coming up, get curious about why it’s coming up, process that and then go on forward and enjoy doing Facebook lives. The first time I ever did a Facebook live on my own profile, I was so nervous and because I was [00:20:00] in that fight and flight.

[00:20:00] I couldn’t think because all the energy was kind of going to my body because I felt like I needed to physically run or flight or fight that my camera was around the wrong way and I couldn’t think how to switch it around. But I gave myself up so much and I was doing that feel the fear in any way just do it.

[00:20:16] So I just said, I’m glad, glad I vacuumed my carpet today because all you’re going to see is my carpet. I just going to have to get this message out. And it was one of the best things I ever did because not only have I lived on that story to tell my clients, but out of that, I got two people messaged me and became my clients because they said they can so resonate with me.

[00:20:35] And , it was nice to be able to relate to somebody because I wasn’t perfectly polished and scripted. They felt like I was like a human being that they could approach. So now I say to my clients who want to do a Facebook live for a scale. I’m like, can you get the camera around the right way?

[00:20:49] They’re like, yeah, of course I can. I’m like, well, then you’re one step ahead of me. Cause I couldn’t even do that. So it makes them at ease and makes them laugh. Okay. Well, you know. I can’t mess up as bad as Brooke can. So [00:21:00] yeah, I’m sure I can do it. And then they go on and do their face, but live and feel a bit more relaxed about it because it’s all about relaxing the nervous system.

[00:21:07] So you can actually be in your prefrontal cortex and think about what you need to do rather than being in that fight, flight or freeze a situation instead. 

[00:21:17] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s fantastic. I love everything that you just shared. I feel it. I, I feel that way. You know, I do record our episodes when I’m doing a podcast and that gives me an opportunity to go and edit.

[00:21:31] And I think that’s a little bit of the Perfectionism that I’m, you know, dealing with and wanting to make sure everything is just right. And so the nervousness is maybe not the same as if it was live. And so I love what you just shared, just realize that you’re human. You make mistakes. It’s really okay.

[00:21:52] It’s not the end of the world. Right. And it makes you more approachable. Like you said, these people realize that she’s just like me. [00:22:00] You know, she makes mistakes. If she can make this mistake, I can make a mistake and it’s going to be okay. 

[00:22:05] Brooke Bownes: Yeah, you give people permission to be themselves and make a mistake because perfection doesn’t exist.

[00:22:11] And in fact, in the back of my book, because I’ve got like a sense of humor, I have to read it out because it’s a quote. It’s like, because there is a mistake in the book that I found. I put, P. S. perfectionism doesn’t exist. Therefore, if you see any mistakes, they are a figment of your imagination. Yeah, just for a bit of a giggle, but you know.

[00:22:29] We strive to be this perfect person but who are we striving to be that perfect person for because people that we’re talking to don’t expect us to be perfect and they give us the grace of making mistakes but it’s that inner child wound of like, you know, Your parents expecting you to, to be that certain person and living up to their standards, you know, and because they’ve got their inner child wounds.

[00:22:52] They think, well, if my child doesn’t behave and be perfectly good, people will think I’m not a good enough parent. So my child therefore must behave and be [00:23:00] really, really good. When you understand where your parents are coming from and realizing actually your parents are human beings too. That they, they have made mistakes and they haven’t got it right.

[00:23:10] And one of the best things I ever heard about being a parent is you can guarantee you’re going to mess it up because none of them come with a manual. And even if they did, you know, it’s not one size fits all because all children are different as well. So, you know, it’s, it’s giving yourself a break and being kind to yourself because we often are our own worst enemy with that self talk, which I talk about in the first chapter of my book.

[00:23:32] We wouldn’t talk to our best friend the way we talk to ourselves because we wouldn’t have a best friend. So why not be your own best friend and, and talk to yourself kindly and be kind to yourself. Because if your best friend messed up, you’d be like, Oh, it’s okay. You know, you’re human. But if we mess up, it’s like, Oh, how stupid are we?

[00:23:48] I can’t believe I did that. And we’d go down this, you know, tirade of berating ourselves and making ourselves feel even worse. 

[00:23:54] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So what are maybe some things that we can do to kind of [00:24:00] cut that off at the pass, if you will. And, you know, if we see that we’re going in that direction of the, berating ourself, what are some things that maybe we can do to help work through that?

[00:24:11] Brooke Bownes: It’s one of the best things is talk to yourself like you are your own best friend, your own best cheerleader, because the only person we hear 24 seven from is ourselves. So it’s actually realizing that if you wouldn’t say it to your best friend. Don’t say it to yourself, and if you can start to do that and catch yourself because you know, we’re all imperfect and sometimes I’ll do nothing like saying things like if I bump into a table.

[00:24:36] Oh, I’m so clumsy, like when we say, I am and follow it by our subconscious mind will want to give us more of that. Actually, I wasn’t clumsy it was a clumsy thing I did. So it separates you from the thing that happened. Realizing what you’re saying. So like when you say I am and then whatever follows is thinking about it.

[00:24:55] And I often say to my clients, when you say I am, it’s like your subconscious mind [00:25:00] kind of like sits up like a Meer cat and think, okay, what? What are we doing? So like if you say, I am clumsy or I am useless at that, you are gonna get that clumsy, you’re gonna get that uselessness. But if you actually say, I am a very clever person, but I just happened to bump into the table.

[00:25:15] That’s a whole different way of saying thing and being kind to yourself because, you know, especially if you’ve had childhood trauma, you didn’t like being, told off and, and the trauma that you went through as a child. So why perpetuate it as an adult? Because we’re so used to it. And we used to hearing that that’s our, our kind of our normal, but actually we need to break out of that cycle and break out of that mold.

[00:25:38] Like breaking through that cycle of self sabotage or perfectionism or whatever it is that you’re struggling with. And actually, you know, realize that it’s okay to be kind to yourself. You’re the person that you live with all the time. So start being kind to you, give yourself a break.

[00:25:54] Desiree Stanley: That’s wonderful. Excellent advice. Thank you for sharing that. So I want to [00:26:00] talk a little bit about maybe something that you had shared before with me and, and the group is how celebrating what you’re doing instead of have it be where you think people are going to be like, Oh my gosh. She’s just.

[00:26:16] Self celebratory, she’s just maybe saying, Oh, I’m so great. I’m so great. Instead, what did you find happen when you were celebrating these wins that you were having? What did you find with the feedback that you were getting from, from other people? 

[00:26:31] Brooke Bownes: Okay. Well, we’ll use the example of my book because I was on Facebook.

[00:26:34] I decided that every day I was going to. highlight the highs and lows of writing a book on what was happening. And so every day I was talking about the book and what I’d done. And so many people were either messaging me or commenting on my post saying, you’re really an inspiration. You really inspire me to think about different things you do.

[00:26:51] So when we celebrate, it gives other people permission to celebrate, you know, as children. We’re natural show offs. It’s, it’s a natural thing. Like, you [00:27:00] know, if anybody’s got children out there or knows of children, especially when we’re potty training, the minute a child pees on the potty, we’re like, yeah, yeah.

[00:27:08] Well done. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Because that’s the way we learn and think, okay, that I need to do that again to get that reward that, you know, celebration thing. But as we get older and often through teenage years, we don’t want to be noticed and seen, but we kind of lose that along the way.

[00:27:23] But the thing is, you know, When any of my friends have achieved anything, I’m, I’m there cheering them on thinking, wow, what an inspiration. I don’t think, Oh, she’s a show off. She needs to like get back it, you know, sit down and be quiet because who does she think she is? But we grow up with that. If we’re in a traumatized child, I mean, I can remember doing things.

[00:27:42] And my mother said to me, sit down and shut up. Who do you think you are? You’re getting too big for your boots. It’ll end in tears or. What will the neighbors think, which I also was very bizarre because I lived on a farm and our nearest neighbor was like a couple of miles down the road. So we didn’t technically have any neighbors.

[00:27:58] Again, it [00:28:00] was her and her child wounds and not feeling good enough as a parent. So it’s like understanding where that, that feeling of not being allowed to show up comes from. Is it a belief that’s come from your parents? You know, is it a belief that’s come from your grandparents? And is that belief still there?

[00:28:15] You know, helping you and serving you because if it’s not, then, then change it and do something about it. I show off a lot. If you want to use that celebrate a lot. I will always celebrating things that I’ve done things that that my clients have done, like, For instance, I’ve decided to do 31 podcasts in 31 days, and I posted about it on Facebook.

[00:28:36] And I’ve had so many people messaging me saying, you’ve inspired me, I’m going to do 30 days of this, or I wouldn’t have thought it. Nobody once has said to me, you’re a big headed and being a bit of a show of wanting to do 31 days. I don’t know if I’ll achieve 31 days, but I’ve got 13 booked already and a talk in a membership group.

[00:28:56] So I had 13 more than I had before I started on Monday [00:29:00] morning. So to me, yeah, that’s a success. If I do hit the 31, that’s great, but I’m not attached to that outcome. I’m just celebrating the things I do as I go along, which also gives my clients permission to celebrate their selves. Which then gives their children permission to celebrate themselves.

[00:29:16] And I’m a huge believer in that ripple effect of like, I walk my talk and talk my walker, they say. So if I’m celebrating myself, my clients will celebrate themselves. Therefore their children and their friends and family will celebrate themselves. And then everybody’s on that. Oh yeah, let’s, let’s cheer everybody else on.

[00:29:33] Rather than putting everybody down. 

[00:29:35] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s wonderful. Excellent. I love it. And, and yes, what you said about, you may not achieve the goal of 31 podcasts in 31 days, but you’re so much further ahead. I think that’s something that we all need to remember, and that we set these goals. And instead of looking at it from the point of view of, well, if I don’t achieve it, [00:30:00] then I’ve failed.

[00:30:01] It should be from the other side. It’s like, but I’m so much further ahead than I was before I even attempted this. And I think that that mindset shift makes all the difference. Right. 

[00:30:15] Brooke Bownes: And also as well. I never say I’ve either succeeded or I’ve failed. I either succeed… Or I learn from it and I quite often like to make mistakes and fail as such because you learn so much from the mistakes you make rather than you do when you succeed.

[00:30:30] And I always love to make a mistake now that might sound a bit strange but I always turn it into some sort of positive like. I did a TikTok reel the other day, and I realized that autocorrect to change your from Y O U R to Y O U apostrophe R E, and it didn’t make sense, but 6, 000 people had seen it by that time.

[00:30:51] Now, if that had been like 10 years ago, I would have gone, Oh my goodness, I must delete it. I don’t look professional. Oh my goodness, what are people going to think of me? You know, all those [00:31:00] protective parts coming in. But my instant thought was great. I’ll take a screenshot of it. I’ll post to post on Facebook and talk about the mistake I’ve made that even though a mistake was in the title, my message still got out to 6, 000 people.

[00:31:13] And I had loads of messages and people contacted me saying, Oh my God, that so relates to me. Thank you. That TikTok has helped me so much. So I kind of call myself out on my mistakes now. And then I, I let people know and see them. So, you know, I’m still building a really successful business, but, you know, things happen along the way.

[00:31:32] Auto correct can sometimes change things. If you’re busy, you think, okay, right. And you put it out there. Oh my goodness. But I’ve learned the lesson from that. So the next time I do a TikTok, I will double check the title before I press send, you know, post. So, so yeah, lesson learned and move on.

[00:31:47] I’m still alive to tell the tale today, so nothing happened. My world didn’t implode or anything. 

[00:31:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love that you used it also as an opportunity to, to work on yourself, but to share with [00:32:00] others so that they can learn from that, that point too, right? That it’s really more important, the message that was out than one little typo or misspelling that’s, that’s nothing compared to what the true message is that you got out.

[00:32:16] And so that’s fantastic. Well, I have so enjoyed our conversation, Brooke, and you mentioned your book and I know you’ve showed it for the YouTube viewers, but if you could mention it again for the listeners of the show, that would be great. 

[00:32:31] Brooke Bownes: Yeah, it’s called You Can Have it: How to Break Through the Self-Sabotage Cycle.

[00:32:36] It is on Amazon. And so if you type my name, Brooke Bownes, and it will come up, but I’ll also send you the link so you can pop them in the show notes that the US link as well. So people can order it from Amazon. It’s on Kindle and in print as well, so they can choose which way they order it as well.

[00:32:53] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. And, and so speaking of books, are there any other books that you have found to be beneficial [00:33:00] for you or influential in your life that you would like to share with the listeners? 

[00:33:05] Brooke Bownes: Yeah. A book called My Mother’s A Narcissist. It explains about how mothers are and the difference between like being a golden child and a scapegoat.

[00:33:14] And it really helps you to understand why they, they are the way they are and how you can actually live that way. So that’s a really good book to think about that. And also something like The Body Keeps the Score is a really, really great one. And there’s a book by Oprah Winfrey. I can’t remember what it’s called.

[00:33:30] I’ll have to look it up and put it in the show notes. But it’s about, you’re not who you think you are sort of thing is, if you can be who you want to be so you’re not your past basically so, and that was a really really great book that people can find and I’ll have a look at the title of it I can’t remember the title off the top of my head, but, you A really good book to read as well.

[00:33:49] So so yeah, but just to sort of, before we finish up, I’ve actually got, because I know this is going out in August, I’ve actually got a free boot camp that’s happening at the end of September. All about heal your inner [00:34:00] child to heal you. So if anybody’s interested in that, I will also. Give you the link for them to sign up to that in the, in the show notes.

[00:34:07] It’s a three day bootcamp. It’s absolutely free and it’s going to be online. So if, even if the time zones are different, they can watch the replays of it as well. 

[00:34:15] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. Thank you for sharing that Brooke. I appreciate it. And for sure I’ll include the names of the books in the show notes and the links we’ll share as well.

[00:34:25] And is there any podcasts that you listen to that you think would be helpful for the listeners? 

[00:34:30] Brooke Bownes: Yeah. I listened to a lot of Stephen Bartlett podcasts and Mel Robbins. They’re two really, really good podcasts to listen to, you know, talking about all different things about your mindset and about your body and, about how you eat and what you eat and how our food affects our mood and stuff, which, you know, I talk about a lot because when we’ve had a very traumatic childhood, we don’t always think about putting ourselves first and think about how we feed ourselves and how we look after ourselves.

[00:34:56] So that’s a really important thing as well. 

[00:34:59] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. [00:35:00] Excellent. Mel Robbins podcast is phenomenal. I love it. I listen to her shows all the time. They’re so great. So I’ll include both of those in the show notes as well. And Brooke, thank you again so much for coming on the show and sharing your knowledge and information with us.

[00:35:16] It’s been so incredible what you have shared and thank you. I appreciate it so much. 

[00:35:22] Brooke Bownes: Thank you for inviting me. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. 

[00:35:25] Desiree Stanley: We’ll talk soon. 

[00:35:26] Brooke Bownes: Thank you. Take care. Bye. 

____________

POK_Zakiyyah Austin Podcast_08_09_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my special guest Zakiyyah Austin. Welcome to the show Zakiyyah. I’m so excited to have you on today. How are you? 

[00:00:14] Zakiyyah Austin: I’m doing good. Thank you so much for the opportunity Desiree. I look forward to it. 

[00:00:19] Desiree Stanley: I’m thrilled to have Zakiyyah on today to talk with us.

[00:00:23] She is the owner and driving force behind Z Austin Insurance. And she’s going to be talking about something that none of us really want to have to think about and that’s kind of catastrophic events that could happen in our life and so she’s going to share with us some of the things that have happened in her life and why she is so passionate about getting this information out to others.

[00:00:50] Again, so, so wonderful to have you, Zakiyyah. Go ahead and tell us how you got started in the insurance industry and, [00:01:00] and we’ll go from there. 

[00:01:01] Zakiyyah Austin: Okay. Well, I got started in 2014 as a piggyback and a marriage to my real estate career. So once I sold the home, I then went back and sold a life insurance policy or disability policy to my customer.

[00:01:22] Because once you buy a house, you start getting this mail once you close saying we want to sit with you about mortgage protection. And the most of the times. People don’t even understand what that is. So I would tell them, Hey, listen, you’re going to start getting an influx of mail about mortgage protection.

[00:01:37] Don’t worry about that. Once you’re settled in, I’m going to come back and I’m going to sit down with you. So the mortgage protection is pretty much a life insurance policy that you can either get in the amount of the mortgage you just inherited or as untimely death.

[00:01:51] Your family members that live in the house with you that’s not on a deed have time to figure out what to do[00:02:00] or buy it, pay it off, right? So it’s not kicking them out because the person whose name it’s in is no longer there. The bank has that that loan insured and that’s what that mortgage insurance is when you sign your loan documents.

[00:02:20] And then I would also do the disability insurance. So either you are no longer there and you’re making sure your family members can either pay the house off or pay the mortgage until they sell it and figure things out without being burdened with, Oh my God, what do we do now? And then a disability in the event you.

[00:02:42] Can’t go to work to pay for the biggest bill most of the time you have is your mortgage, right? And I say a lot of times, but it could be most, but a lot of times if one person that brings in an income for the house, it cannot bring in income for the house.[00:03:00] 

[00:03:00] That becomes a financial crisis after whatever, whatever else you’re dealing with. Right. So if you have the person who brings in the most of the money is the person who is either sick and can’t go to work or injured and can’t go to work. The income just took a hit. So you want to have disability insurance outside of what the job offers you because that’s still not going to be enough and most chances are it’s not going to last as long as something that you purchase outside of the job will last.

[00:03:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such great information. And I think that, you know, we often don’t think ahead like that. And unfortunately, we can get caught in a situation where, like you explained, we’re not covered enough to pay for our largest bill, which, you know, really is our mortgage or the loan that we have on our house.

[00:03:56] And you know, then what do you do? And so this [00:04:00] is a great way to be proactive, right. And to protect yourself and your family in an event like that. And so you mentioned that that was in, I think 2014. Yes, 2014. Okay. And so then the, the insurance side of it, did that become more prevalent of the business or were you still also doing real estate as well?

[00:04:25] How did that all work out?

[00:04:26] Zakiyyah Austin: I was still doing real estate. But the firm that I was with, I was picked up. Securities license with Prudential. That was January 2017, I grabbed the series 63. Prudential didn’t mind me selling real estate, but I didn’t have a long career there.

[00:04:47] So after things didn’t go as planned there I took a break from insurance and it was just real estate back to real estate. So I’ve been in real estate since 2006 and that that was [00:05:00] the baby. I loved it. I know it. I know it well. And once I decided to revisit insurance or the financial services side of it.

[00:05:10] I went to another firm and that was with AXA advisors and they considered real estate a conflict of interest. So, being that I was in real estate so long, I already had a long list of investors. So I made a pivot. I call myself the pivot queen. I made a pivot from traditional real estate and started doing off market deals.

[00:05:32] Desiree Stanley: Gotcha. 

[00:05:34] And that’s maybe a conversation for a different day because that is just like a whole nother world. But let’s talk a little bit more about how people would Go about finding an agent to assist them with, you know, really digging through all of the different types of policies that are available and like what would be the best for them.

[00:05:58] Zakiyyah Austin: It’s definitely going to [00:06:00] be the repport, how comfortable you feel with that person. Because you don’t want to do heavy business like that with someone that you feel like is just there for that one transaction. So I would say make sure that you like that person. So for me, I started to build that clientele from people I was selling a house to.

[00:06:23] So it took us months possibly to close a transaction on a house. So you got to know that person if I didn’t already know them. And I educated them through the real estate transaction. So we already had that relationship. Either you’re going to be referred to a professional in insurance, or do your due diligence, read up on reviews.

[00:06:47] Or today we follow people on social media, see if you like their energy and the content that they share. 

[00:06:53] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, good point. That relationship is so important in something that’s this [00:07:00] personal, whether it be, you know, purchasing a house or purchasing insurance. And so, let’s talk about the insurance side of it in terms of the different types of policies and how do you determine really what’s the best for your needs?

[00:07:14] Zakiyyah Austin: The best is the one that you own. That’s it. Own, own one, right? So yes, it’s great to have it at work. That’s probably the biggest objection, or people who shy away from the conversation, because They have it at work. So at work, it’s attached to work. You probably can’t take that with you when you leave.

[00:07:40] Some companies do allow you to take it with you. But when you can take it with you, possibly you’re not taking it at the same amount that you had in that group. So with work, it’s a group plan. You don’t have a copy of that at home in your drawer. If you leave there, potentially you’re separated from [00:08:00] that policy.

[00:08:00] Now you have to go through underwrite and all over again. You’ve had birthday. So you age possibly have a new health diagnosis, and these things are going to impact your monthly premium. So while you’re healthy. I would say get a policy. I don’t care if it’s term or permanent, but you need to understand if it’s term, it has an expiration date on it.

[00:08:25] So I always tell my clients if it’s a gamble, right? You and the insurance company are gambling. If you have a term policy, You will win if you pass away your family will win, I should say you pass away before the exploration of that policy 20-30 years. That means you didn’t pay much into that policy, but the insurance company is on the hook to cut a massive check to your family members for your untimely death.

[00:08:56] If you have a permanent policy, you’re going to get. A [00:09:00] higher premium per month for less face amount because you will always win as long as you pay your premium because there is no exploration. They know at some point they’re on a hook to pay that death benefit. 

[00:09:13] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s that’s interesting. The explanation there on the differences, because I think that that can be very confusing and, you know, not knowing that the one has an expiration date and that that’s it, it’s done, it’s over versus, you know, the one that’s more like lifetime, right?

[00:09:32] It never expires. And so that’s really important to know. And then I guess determining which is the right one for you is going to be very personal, right? 

[00:09:43] Zakiyyah Austin: Right. So let me let me back up just a bit there with term. So if I’m selling a term policy, which is mortgage protection, because I just sold you a house, your mortgage is hundreds of thousands of dollars, right?

[00:09:58] That’s a new bill. That’s [00:10:00] probably a bigger payment than you’ve ever had. At a previous house or rental, however, so you have to get adjusted to now having bigger bills by owning the house, not even just the mortgage. You got more space now. Potentially your household bills have increased as well. So you can get a larger face amount on a term, but your premium is not going to be increased.

[00:10:24] So massive for the amount that you just purchased, right? But you just have to remember that is an expiration date on that policy. Today, though, we can build out a policy, whether it’s term or perm with riders that are updates to a policy, just like an endorsement on home insurance, or we have to update our cell phones.

[00:10:46] They have rider that make sense today for term. And that can be a chronic rider. If you can’t take care of yourself, you’ve been in a bad accident. Like my story and I, when I came home, I couldn’t [00:11:00] do several things. So it’s called ADLs. Activities of daily living that can be grooming yourself, feeding yourself, toilet and dressing yourself.

[00:11:11] If you can’t do two of six active daily living activities, then you can have a letter from your doctor, send it into the life insurance company, and then they will advance you some of that death benefit. And then you still have some leftover for death benefit. So it’s not just today, okay. In the event you pass away, then you have a chronic illness rider.

[00:11:32] Not chronic terminal terminal is if you’re diagnosed with the illness, that’s 12 months or less to live. You can do the same thing advance that death benefit. So you can add on to these policies today where it’s not just for death anymore. And that’s whether it’s a term or permanent. That’s what makes it make sense so you can look at those type of riders.

[00:11:53] If you have a large enough face amount as long term care. 

[00:11:58] Desiree Stanley: That’s really good. I’m glad you [00:12:00] shared that. And then there’s something that I was thinking about. Are these things different in different states, because I’m being from California, you’re in New Jersey. Are there are the insurance laws different in different areas like are there different policies available to people in different areas.

[00:12:18] Yes. 

[00:12:19] Zakiyyah Austin: It’s the companies is not not really the state that that makes that difference of the endorsements or the writers that you can put. It’s the companies. Each company has their policies designed for their company. They want you to come and buy a policy with them. So they may have different features.

[00:12:37] So they’re like policy that this company over here doesn’t. So it’s like, oh, now we have this rider, this rider, that rider, that company doesn’t have it. We will accept you if you have this diagnosis, that diagnosis, and that company won’t. So it’s just a matter of who has what. It doesn’t really matter about the state.

[00:12:54] It’s what they’re willing to accept to write your business [00:13:00] and the endorsements that’s on there, aka riders. 

[00:13:04] Desiree Stanley: Okay, thank you for going into a little bit more detail on that. And then you mentioned what happened to you. And so I’d like to, if you’re ready to share what it was that happened to you so that the listeners know what occurred.

[00:13:19] Zakiyyah Austin: Okay, so my birthday weekend always falls either on Labor Day or Labor Day weekend, September 6, 2019 myself, along with three friends and my half sister, we took a little quick, what we thought was supposed to be a quick weekend trip to Atlanta, Georgia, and within the first 24 hours, one of my friends was already deceased.

[00:13:45] I was on life support or going through surgery to be on life support because I didn’t pull through right away. And then my childhood best friend was on life support for [00:14:00] six months in a coma. The other two went through severe surgeries as well. And we didn’t come home in two days like we planned.

[00:14:07] Okay. We were in the hospital for three months. The ones who the survivors were in the hospital for three months, and it wasn’t that we went home and we were back to life. No, back to norm. No, I went home to electric stairlift on my front steps, and I had a hospital bed in my living room. I still needed a lot of help to do anything in the house, and that’s why I was qualified to tap into that rider, the chronic rider on my term life insurance policy because I couldn’t do Probably five of those six things, if not six out of six that I spoke about earlier.

[00:14:43] So that that’s when we talk about being proactive, right? A lot of times people will not be interested in the conversation of life insurance or disability for them. It’s another bill, right? [00:15:00] I’m fine. I feel good. We make all these plans for tomorrow, next week and everything else. And there’s no guarantee on that, right?

[00:15:09] My experience shows you there’s no guarantee on tomorrow because we did not make it 24 hours visiting another state for a quick weekend getaway. My mom at age 50 went to bed and did not wake up. There’s no tomorrow there, right? Once we were discharged from the hospital after the three months, we came up with COVID.

[00:15:33] Everyone was on quarantine a few months later. How many people passed away then? You saw them today, the next day you didn’t. So it can be bad timing. It’s just, we hear these stories all the time, Desiree. It doesn’t matter what the event is. We assume that we have more time and it’s not really up to us.

[00:15:51] Right? So if you prolong making this purchase, because you assume you have more time, you [00:16:00] could be leaving your family members in a really bad financial situation. And I always share with people, if things are tight now and you leave your family members with having to figure out how to put you away for your final resting place.

[00:16:16] You just made the situation even worse, but now they can’t even grieve right because they are burdened with financial bills on top of, you know, it’s just, it could be a really bad situation. 

[00:16:29] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. And thank you so much for sharing your story and what happened and it’s absolutely devastating. I, I thank you for sharing it and wow, what a powerful thing though, that you can share now that story with others so that you can hopefully help them to not have to go through, you know, that experience or put their family members through an experience like that, where they may have [00:17:00] lost someone who is.

[00:17:02] You know, the sole supporter of the family. And so again, thank you for sharing that and I can see why it’s your passion to share the story and to tell others, don’t put this off, you know, be proactive, do this now and save your family that heartache and grief and burden later. So important.

[00:17:24] Yeah. 

[00:17:25] Zakiyyah Austin: If I can just go back to add. I had all different types of policies in place at the time of this accident, and it wasn’t comfortable to my pocket either every month. But thank God I did have them in place because by the time I woke up, these claims were already in place because my sister had started making those calls.

[00:17:48] I knew that. My girlfriend who had passed away first had life insurance because I was her agent. I knew that my childhood best friend was okay because we had [00:18:00] just had the conversation maybe one or two months prior to where she told me she had paid up insurance that her grandmother bought her from a child.

[00:18:09] And maybe at that time of the conversation, she only had one or two payments left. So that meant that the policy was paid up either the month before or the month that this accident happened. In the event that she did not have a paid up policy or any other policy in place, she was not married. She had no children.

[00:18:30] So you get people that say, Oh, why do I need life insurance? I have nobody for things like this. Okay. She was not able to speak for six months. Who would have known what company to make payments to for those six months. Okay, if it wasn’t already paid for, that could have been a go fund me situation. Yeah.

[00:18:52] So during my application process previously, I will allow people to say no, they don’t want to list [00:19:00] anybody else on their paperwork to say if they miss a payment today, I’m saying no, we are adding a second person because if you cannot speak, who else knows that you missed a life insurance payment.

[00:19:14] Somebody else needs to be informed. Hey, you need to pay this just in case. 

[00:19:19] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s a great point that you brought up and, and leads me to a couple of things. One, I remember getting the letters in the mail about, do you want to have anybody else listed in case a mailing address change, or like you just said, you know, something happens, somebody else is notified and then they can carry on, getting that handled for you.

[00:19:40] And then also setting up. Even just auto deduct, right? So these payments are automatically deducted from your bank account directly through, you know, ACH processing, and then you’re certain that those are always getting handled every month. 

[00:19:56] Zakiyyah Austin: What if you run out of money? 

[00:19:58] Desiree Stanley: True. [00:20:00] 

[00:20:00] Zakiyyah Austin: But what if you don’t have that six month reserve and you’re, you’re incapacitated for six months?

[00:20:07] Those ACHs have stopped now. Because the money is not there. Now, that’s the same situation as, oh, this is in pre lapse, or this is about to lapse. Once it’s lapsed and you can’t speak, you can’t answer those questions again to get reinstated. That’s over. 

[00:20:26] Desiree Stanley: Great point. That’s absolutely a great point.

[00:20:28] Thank you for bringing that up. Because I didn’t think about that as a factor is like you said, If the money in your bank account is no longer there, then those payments are not going to be made on your behalf. And so that’s a fantastic point. Yeah. 

[00:20:43] Zakiyyah Austin: Probably not the only bill that you’re going to have on ACH, right?

[00:20:46] So if you’re bringing in new money, new money is not dropping in, but the same money is going out. It’s about to run out. And who knows how long that situation will be [00:21:00] where you are not being able to go out and bring in new money. 

[00:21:03] Desiree Stanley: Absolutely. Yeah. Great point. Thank you very much. Thank you for, clarifying that because it’s not something that I thought about, obviously.

[00:21:13] Yeah. Yeah. Let’s go ahead then and talk about you were a part of a book recently and, I really want you to share that with the listeners but Zakiyyah, tell us about it so it’s Good Grief. And so go ahead and share more about it. 

[00:21:32] Zakiyyah Austin: While I was in the hospital, my cousin would come and see me and he would always say, this needs to be a book. But you need to write about this. And like, for one, I was mentally I was a wreck. I just lost one friend. My other friend still was not she didn’t pull through yet.

[00:21:51] I was a wreck. So writing a book was not the first thing I thought about. Possibly this was two years later this was networking, I [00:22:00] joined the networking group call, and I jumped in there late, and I got thrown right into a breakout room, and in that breakout room, it was a publishing in, and I’m like, wow, this is interesting, and I don’t think things just happen, right, so it was like, oh, wow, okay.

[00:22:15] We talked about her books, and then she said, Well, I have another book coming up and I’m still looking for authors. And I was like, Well, what’s the name? What’s it about? And she said, Good grief. And I was like, That’s it. I wasn’t dropped into that breakout room by my mistake. .I signed up for it, but I’m not sure how serious I was when I first signed up for it. And after we had maybe two calls about it was like, okay next week your bio is due. And I had an anxiety attack. My stomach started rumbling and I was getting hot and I was like, I gotta go. And I just clicked off of the call because that became very real then.

[00:22:58] You didn’t say you’re [00:23:00] going to do it. Now you’re going to do it because you got to turn in that bio next week. Then once the bio was done, it was. Okay, now you got to turn in your chapter and it was like, I don’t know where to start. I was nervous. It was my first time writing, but once I started, it just started to flow because I have these women that I miss so much.

[00:23:19] I had these women that I called on spiritually throughout my recovery period and those were some really dark days. I’ve missed being able to pick up the phone and call them or being able to go and sit with them and ask for advice or just share how I was feeling. So once I started to write, it just started to flow, but we were limited to a word count.

[00:23:48] So I did what I could with that word count and honoring each person that I missed. 

[00:23:55] Desiree Stanley: So you have a chapter portion of the [00:24:00] book, then it sounds like have you considered writing a book 100% by yourself since there is more that you felt like you could share? 

[00:24:09] Zakiyyah Austin: Yeah, that’s that’s so heavy. I have. The reviews that came in from the chapter of the book was like, I wanted more, it felt like it was more to be said they were hooked.

[00:24:22] I just recently had a call with another publisher, like, we need a full book, you have a lot to say, and our conversation right now is pretty much I’m adding to what I have to say. Because the experiences of the insurance part was different for us, and I can share with you when you are in the hospital, you can tell the difference in the type of insurance you have versus your neighbor because they’re not coming as fast.

[00:24:57] If your insurance is not quality,[00:25:00] is just different. It really is. I had to ask. To go home because my insurance was good and they were just running up a bill versus someone who doesn’t have a good insurance. They’re finding a reason to get you out tomorrow. 

[00:25:15] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and I imagine the level of comfort that you feel as a patient, knowing that you have coverage versus someone who doesn’t.

[00:25:25] I mean, that’s got a way heavy on your mind too, and burden your recovery because you’re so worried about what this hospital bill is going to do to you and your family. So I can imagine that’s a whole other realm that you know, can be discussed. 

[00:25:41] Zakiyyah Austin: It all comes back down to the pocket, right?

[00:25:44] Whether you survive and you worried about the care and what the cost of that care is or you did not survive and what the cost of that final ceremony looks like and the bills that’s left after that. It all comes down to the [00:26:00] cost and care. 

[00:26:00] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. It’s so deep and it really is a very I imagine difficult conversation because like you mentioned earlier, so many people think, well, I’m in good health, there’s nothing wrong with me, I’ll be fine.

[00:26:15] And, you know, really, we have absolutely no idea what is going to happen. Five minutes from now, an hour from now, two days from now, none. So, you know, to be proactive and to, have these things in place, really the peace of mind, I think also is just got to be huge. 

[00:26:37] Zakiyyah Austin: Not just for you, but for your family members, that’s going to be responsible.

[00:26:42] Yeah. Right. Sure. If you have, so we have life insurance. We have disability insurance, and then we also have something that’s called critical care where you can get an insurance policy that pays you for a diagnosis, a lump sum. [00:27:00] If you have a family history of heart attack or strokes and kidney. Anything, not anything, because it’s a list. But I have a policy that I have myself and my daughters covered. If we have any of these diagnoses, that’s a lump sum check that allows you to pay for bills, care, whatever it is that you need. If you don’t have a big support system, you want to have money available to call in help.

[00:27:33] Because when you don’t have these things, you don’t know who’s helping you now, or you’re not going to get quality help. Because you can’t afford it or the amount of help that your insurance is paying for is this big is minimal. You need more than that. You don’t want to rush back to life if you’re not physically ready.

[00:27:57] But when you don’t have the means to take [00:28:00] care of yourself at your pace. Then you jump back out there and you can make things worse for yourself because you’re looking at the bills and you can’t function or focus on feeling better because you are just looking at the mountain of bills. 

[00:28:18] Desiree Stanley: Mm hmm. Yeah, I want to touch on.

[00:28:22] The book a little bit more. And, you know, we talked before about grief and about how you can help someone who’s grieving. Like, what are some, some important things that you can do to support someone who’s going through the grieving process? You want to share some things with us? 

[00:28:42] Zakiyyah Austin: Oh, yeah. I just went through a training for this book. This is called Happy for No Reason, where Soon enough, I shall be a certified trainer where I can teach the different methods in this book. But before I was introduced to this book for myself, you know, I [00:29:00] spoke about how much of a fan I am of Reiki. And Reiki, meditation YouTube was a big help for me.

[00:29:08] Reading books. Period. I’ve always been a bookworm. But during my darkest hours, I, I had to read, I had to read because our mind can be our worst enemy and you need something to bring you back around because you can really find yourself on some heavy medications as a coping mechanism when it’s not necessary if you find other ways to manage.

[00:29:35] Desiree Stanley: So I want you to tell us the name of the book again, 

[00:29:39] Zakiyyah Austin: Happy for No Reason by Marcy Shymoff. 

[00:29:42] Desiree Stanley: Okay. So if you’re watching on YouTube, you see the book, I’m going to go ahead and put that information in the show notes, of course. So the listeners will have easy access to everything that we’re sharing. 

[00:29:53] You talked just a minute ago about Reiki and meditation and how [00:30:00] those have been so beneficial for you. Do you want to share that? I did have a guest on previously who’s talked about Reiki and meditation but I want to have your take on it and have you share what it’s meant for you.

[00:30:14] Zakiyyah Austin: Sure, I learned about Reiki when I lost my mom in 2008. Interesting enough, myself and my friend that I lost in the accident first. We used to go to an event once a month, it was called Zen Day. So you had a half an hour of foot detox bath, a half an hour of massage, and a half an hour of Reiki. And this particular Reiki practitioner also had medium capabilities.

[00:30:41] So, if you are lucky enough to come across a authentic Reiki practitioner that has medium or prophetic skills, then you’re in luck because. They can communicate with those people that you may be [00:31:00] grieving about, and they sometimes tell you things. In my case, she gave me messages from my mom in 2008.

[00:31:10] And. I was in such a bad way after this auto accident that we were in quarantine. I was having over the phone Reiki sessions with someone that was from Massachusetts, and I’m here in New Jersey, but she had a sister who had medium skills. So they would both be on the phone with me, and she would possibly be moving around and energy from the pain that I was physically in.

[00:31:36] And then the assistant would be telling me some bits about my experience, but she didn’t dive into it too much, but it can be something that you’re uncertain of that’s going on around you and being able to get those energies moved around or receive messages. I’m not sure if people believe in that I might be the weird one.

[00:31:58] I don’t know, but [00:32:00] I love it. I love it. And at one point I had to push myself back because I was going a little while with it to give it a break. But yeah, it’s to move around your energetic frequencies to help balance you head to toe. 

[00:32:17] Desiree Stanley: Right. Yeah. It’s the energies that can get blocked and if you can work on releasing that, it can help with healing.

[00:32:25] So yeah, that’s. That’s really powerful. Thank you for sharing that with us. And I want to talk a little bit about because you mentioned that you were in a very dark place during that time. And I imagine that that would be the case you’re trying to recover. And so you were reading a lot, is there other books that were really beneficial to you at that time that helped you through that?

[00:32:51] Zakiyyah Austin: There were books. I read the secret. I had to tap into that. I was raised Islamically, and this might shock some [00:33:00] family members right now, may not like what I’m about to say, but when you are in such a dark place and such deep despair, and when you’re in the hospital, or even from my situation, I was home, but stuck still in a hospital bed.

[00:33:17] I just was at home. I was alone a lot. So all you have is yourself and your thoughts. I would go to YouTube where people would send me gospel music or tell me to turn to a certain channel. And that’s when I was introduced to Joel Osteen and I fell in love with him because I needed to find those things that brought me back around.

[00:33:44] I’m reading this book now and surprisingly to myself, this is the The Power of Change. And this is by Craig Groeschel, I believe that’s how you pronounce it. But this is another amazing book. I bought this book just because I didn’t even [00:34:00] really I didn’t know what it was about. I like the cover.

[00:34:02] It had a 30% big sticker on it. I bought it. And I just recently started to read it because again, I was going through some things, some decision making. And once I started to read this book, I realized this, wow, this is written by a pastor. But what I got distracted from saying is I grew up Islamically.

[00:34:25] And while I was… Alone so much. I would burst out in tears just crying to the top of my lungs in the hospital where the nurses, they didn’t run to the room anymore because they already knew what was going on. I was having a moment. Even at home, Islam wasn’t there for me, but Christ was. So whatever you feel called to that’s doing the work for you is where you have to share energy.

[00:34:54] And whatever that book was for me, is where I was. And it [00:35:00] maybe was on again, YouTube where I didn’t have to sit there and read it. I could listen. It was plenty of nights. I couldn’t sleep. I would go to YouTube and listen to meditation sounds or calming sounds to help me go to sleep. It’s very important to not tell yourself that you’re okay when you know that you don’t feel okay.

[00:35:20] It’s very important to ask for help when you know that you’re overwhelmed. And be willing to receive it. Because trying to bear that weight of a grief. It’s not fun. It’s not fun. And it’s not something that you should really go through alone. We we hear all the time about people that we assume we’re happy and they’re committing suicide because possibly you don’t check on that person because you feel as though they’re the strong one.

[00:35:53] And I’ve always been considered the strong one or the lucky one. And through this hour, Desiree, I was [00:36:00] neither of the two of those. I was breaking down, and I still had company coming over, so they probably thought I was okay, but I was not because my mind just kept going back to how did this happen?

[00:36:15] Oh my God, my friends, my friend’s family, who’s mad at me? Did I upset somebody? Why did this happen? It was all of those thoughts that stayed on the forefront while I was pretending to be… In the moment, but I was not in the moment. I just wanted it to be over so I can go back and crawl under the covers.

[00:36:33] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s just so it’s like devastating. Yeah. It’s so powerful. I can’t even imagine that depth of despair in that time, but that you’ve got to find. Like you said, whatever it is that speaks to you in that moment to help you get through it. And, and so thankfully you did find [00:37:00] what you needed to help carry you through and here you are now, and you are sharing your wisdom from the experience that you’ve been through and helping other people now through the writing, through, the offering of insurance and and helping to protect them and their families.

[00:37:18] And. It’s so important. And I want to touch a little bit on when you went into that, you said you were dropped into that group that was writing and how nothing happens accidentally. Right. Things happen for a reason and you needed to be there and you went through that writing process and now are getting, I hope, ready to write your own full length book to talk about this because what you went through can be that guiding light for somebody else.

[00:37:52] And so thank you so much for sharing this all with us. 

[00:37:56] Zakiyyah Austin: But we will go back to here because I have so much.[00:38:00] being Happy for No Reason, pulling yourself out of grief and just showing up for yourself. My last surgery was December of 2020.

[00:38:13] And that was a dark period for me. So, the world was trying to open back up from COVID. My recovery was starting to backslide. I was getting even more depressed because I felt like I should have been further along in my recovery and rehabilitation, and I wasn’t. And I remember going into the hospital and I just pray that God have you wake me up this last time that I can relieve myself of this burden this darkness. I was not comfortable there and I just wanted to regain some of who I was before this accident. And I wasn’t asking to be who I [00:39:00] was.

[00:39:00] I just wanted to be some of who I was before then because I was always busy. Then I was in real estate. I was in insurance, financial services. I did a lot of networking and that came to a screeching halt. So when you are sitting still and you’re watching everybody else live life and you can’t, or you have to ask for help to do some things I would wake up in the morning and I would just burst out crying to the top of my lungs because I miss my independence.

[00:39:30] I did not like having to wait to get a bath. I did not like having to not even be able to get myself off the toilet. It just was too much for me being the independent person I , once was. And I was still proud. I didn’t want people to know just how low I was feeling, but I was, I was down.

[00:39:53] Desiree Stanley: Wow. It’s just amazing what you’ve shared and, and the place that you are in [00:40:00] now compared to then. And I hope that the strength that I see in you now is how you’re feeling. And. That you have, found the joy again and are able to, do what you do and what I know it may be at a different level than it was before, but you are a different person now from that experience and you can bring forth those things that you’ve learned and share with others.

[00:40:26] And I hope that that is bringing you joy. 

[00:40:30] Zakiyyah Austin: Yeah, you know, I created these affirmation bookmarks. And I have to keep them by my desk, I keep them in my purse, and I have to go in and flip through them throughout the day because not every day is a good day, right? I’m still human, so I get my periods where I’m starting to get frustrated or my thoughts are starting to go awry.

[00:40:52] I have to tap into these things still today. One thing I can tell you is that I don’t waste time arguing with people [00:41:00] anymore. No, because now I understand. Time is too short, right? I’m not going to let you get in my head and disturb me from where I am today because I’ve been, I’ve had a journey.

[00:41:13] Okay. And not everybody is built to stand up tall after the end of that journey. Took a lot of prayer. It still takes a lot of prayer 

[00:41:24] Desiree Stanley: for sure. And you know, that’s such a great point that you just brought up. We spend so much time arguing with people and having, you know, these conversations in our head and thoughts about what somebody else is thinking and how pointless is all of that.

[00:41:38] It’s so not a good use of our time, 

[00:41:40] Zakiyyah Austin: waste of time. Yeah. , savor the moments while you have them, even with the people that you love. Tell them that you love them while they are here, spend quality time with them while they are here, make the time, put down work we get so absorbed in our work, worrying about what the boss is going to say or [00:42:00] do, the boss is probably out enjoying their family or friends, while you are just stuck in your work, put that down, it’ll be there, go enjoy It You go enjoy your family, your friends, whoever it is that brings you joy, do more of what feels good to you.

[00:42:16] I love to tap into Things that I enjoyed from childhood before life got heavy. That’s what feels good to me. I love a good arcade game. I love a board game. Cards, yeah. There’s no worries in that, right? There’s nothing to fight about when you’re doing that. You’re having a good time. 

[00:42:35] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, what a wonderful way to close out our conversation is to remember The people who are important to us and the things that we enjoy doing is really the point of life.

[00:42:48] It’s, you know, not being buried in work. And so what a great way to close out our conversation. I do want to ask you though, Zakiyyah, if people have questions, [00:43:00] they want to pick your brain about some of the things that we’ve talked about on the insurance side, how would they reach out to you? What’s the best way to get in touch with you?

[00:43:09] Zakiyyah Austin: I’m on LinkedIn. My name is Zakiyyah Austin. I’m on Instagram and that is Z dot Austin Agency or my website, ZAustinAgency.com or my email. And that’s ZakiyyahAustin@gmail.com. 

[00:43:25] Desiree Stanley: Wonderful. Thank you so much. This has been so powerful and such great information.

[00:43:33] And I hope that you know, the listeners have, have found some really good information out of what you’ve shared because there is just so much that you have gifted to us in this conversation. So thank you again. 

[00:43:47] Zakiyyah Austin: You’re more than welcome. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to share. And again, if there was somewhere I got lost and I didn’t get a chance to answer the question to their [00:44:00] satisfaction, feel free to reach out and just ask.

[00:44:02] Thank you. And I might live in different states soon, so I should be able to help out. I love to travel. 

[00:44:10] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Sounds good. Well, thank you again, and we’ll talk soon. 

[00:44:15] Zakiyyah Austin: Yes. Thank you. 

____________

POK_Dalene Higgins Podcast_08_26_2023
[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest Dalene Higgins. Welcome to the show Dalene. I’m so excited to have you on today. How are you? 

[00:00:15] Dalene Higgins: I am wonderful. And thank you for the opportunity. I’m excited to chat about this today. 

[00:00:21] Desiree Stanley: So Dalene is the owner and driving force behind Elevate Finances, and I want you, of course, to tell us all about how that came to be, but you’re also going to be sharing some fantastic financial insights that really the listeners can take and implement right away, I think, into their own, budgeting and planning and that kind of thing, right?

[00:00:47] Dalene Higgins: You bet. 

[00:00:48] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. 

[00:00:48] Dalene Higgins: Elevate finances came to be ironically, because I retired at the age of 50. So these stories kind of blend together. I was the age [00:01:00] 35 when I realized I had the option to retire as early as 48 due to a pension that I had. And I say it was an option because The day I decided to retire, I would take a 40% cut in pay.

[00:01:16] So I knew I needed to get focused and I knew I needed to have all my ducks in a row to, to have that option when I was ready. And so I did work two more years beyond that I was ready. And so prior to my retiring, I. You know, 50, not ready for the recliner every day, all day, you know, not visiting the senior citizen center yet, although I do and I’ll share, you know, a little bit about that as well.

[00:01:43] But and I thought, what am I going to do? And so I just thought through all of the different options and ideas and things I could, you know, volunteer and all of the things. And so I was just realizing. The freedom feeling I was having of [00:02:00] retiring, which was my financial dream. And I know everybody’s financial dream is different, but I wanted to be able to help others be able to, you know, have that same feeling for whatever it is their dream was.

[00:02:14] And so I began Elevate Finances and became a financial coach. I took the certification. Exam in April, opened business June one, which was officially my very first day of retirement. So been in business for about 14 months now, and I love numbers. So in my prior work, I was a finance manager and I helped law enforcement officials learn to budget.

[00:02:42] They had to create budgets from their knowledge of what they needed. To, you know, give to the auditor’s office so that they would have a budget. So I was that helpful stepping in between to be able to translate that as well. I love helping people figure out how to get from [00:03:00] point A to point Z, right?

[00:03:02] We might have that many steps and overcoming any hurdles, whether that is a mindset or, you know, frustration, whatever it is to be able to get through that, build the steps and, you know, finally find that confidence to go through those steps and get there. So that’s how I came to be and how I am, you know, serving clients.

[00:03:26] And I love it. I love it. 

[00:03:29] Desiree Stanley: That’s fantastic. There’s nothing like being able to do what you love to do, right? 

[00:03:35] Dalene Higgins: Exactly. 

[00:03:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So I want to touch on a couple of things that you, you mentioned in there and that’s budgeting because that’s a huge thing for people. How important is budgeting? 

[00:03:48] Dalene Higgins: You know, everybody’s like, well, how can I be good with money or what do I need to do to retire?

[00:03:53] Right? The same answer for both of those, and that is a budget. So, [00:04:00] as I was looking to retire, so I retired in June, February, March, I was creating my retirement budget. I was getting closer. I knew what I needed. I knew what I had, you know, estimating all of the things and making the plan and going back to age 35, and really starting to create my budget, stick to my budget.

[00:04:23] Have it served me, I realized the power it had. I know some people feel like it is restrictive and they can’t do it. They’re forgetting some elements then because I always advise my clients to add an element of fun. We cover all the bills, all the requirements, you know, so shelter, food, water, all of those types of things, and then the next thing I help them put in is what is your one thing that you enjoy the most out of life. A recent client, he came to me with mounds of debt, and he’s like, I need my music. [00:05:00] My music is where I can stay and focus, and it’s my mental health.

[00:05:04] And so we did. We made that fit. Figuring out your budget is It can be difficult. And I, the other thing I see people is I have a budget, but it didn’t work. Your budget is only a plan, right? It’s not going to be exact, even after 20 plus years of using a budget faithfully. And it’s changed, obviously, because I have to add things in, take things out.

[00:05:28] Constantly revising it, but you have to remember it’s flexible. It’s a plan to guide, but honestly, it’s not going to be exact, you know, but the more you do, the better you’re at it, the better you understand your spending habits and needs, and you can be able to, you know, Keep those whether you’re doing it by certain categories or just in, you know, bank accounts, they’ll get closer and you won’t have to shuffle as much.

[00:05:55] And I think that is the prime place to be is where you’re like, Oh, okay, [00:06:00] I’m about 10 short. So I just need to shuffle or, Oh my gosh, I have some extra, I can support something else. And it’s so freeing. I felt and like the driver, you know, it’s the driving force for your money. and telling it where to go because you want to do these things.

[00:06:18] So making sure your goals are supported within that budget. So that would be the next thing after you’ll add fun in there is you got to add all of the money that’s going to support you for your goal, you know, and get those in there and, start balancing it because you’re still going to want to live for today.

[00:06:37] But you’ve got to remember you’ve got to live in the future, so yeah, yeah. Budgets are, I know it’s like the, it’s the love hate relationship, but I believe that if you create one that is compatible with you, that you can learn to love it. 

[00:06:54] Desiree Stanley: That’s excellent advice being flexible and having that [00:07:00] budget for fun or the budget for something that really helps support your, your mental wellbeing, your health.

[00:07:07] That is so important because as you said, it can feel so restrictive that you just want to fight against it. And it’s just like, I’m going to just go the whole opposite direction and then what does that do? That defeats the purpose of your plan in the first place. And I love how you said that you’ve got to work the plan that you have established.

[00:07:28] If you’re not going to follow the plan, you’re not going to get where you want to go. It’s like driving directions, right? You start taking these wrong turns. You’re not going to end up where you want it to be. So those are some great points. Thank you for sharing that. And I want to talk a little bit about some of the maybe myths that people have in this struggle with budgeting. What are some things that people may or misconceptions maybe that people have? 

[00:07:56] Dalene Higgins: You know, and it really is the that it [00:08:00] has to be exact is definitely one that there’s only one right way to do it. My parent taught me to do this. My sister showed me how to do this.

[00:08:10] My neighbor and you know, it doesn’t work. So there, the myth is that there’s not one right way. There is a one right way for you. And that is you that you need to find that. And then that budgeting isn’t the end, right? A lot of people, I create a budget and then I’m good. Well, there’s some other steps within, you know, I call it a money routine that you’ve got to learn to manage.

[00:08:34] Okay. The cash flow, you know, making sure you’re keeping track of your expenses and where is that money and all of those different accounts. Are you getting it to the right savings account? Are you getting it to the right investment accounts? You know, and all of those things that is it hitting there as soon as you possible and you know that within your mind.

[00:08:52] Desiree Stanley: Those are those are good points there. And I want to talk a little bit more about because you mentioned multiple bank accounts. And [00:09:00] so it sounds like you sort of suggest that people have separate places that they’re keeping their money. And so what can you tell us about that and what your thoughts are?

[00:09:11] Dalene Higgins: Yeah. After you create your budget, you need to have a tracking method. And so, you know, you’ve heard of budget apps, and there’s a lot of those can be very huge learning curve. And if that’s not something that you want to even tackle, you can open up separate bank accounts for your bills, your spending, and your savings.

[00:09:30] And then your savings needs to be in the, you know, Is it your emergency funds? Is it your vacation fund? And where is that so that you can get it when you need it? So, understanding those setups and realizing that I had a client, so we set her up on the budget app and she’s loving it, but she doesn’t remember that it’s not controlling her bank account, you know, so it’s a matter of setting up that whole entire thing to try to get it to flow the right way and be available [00:10:00] for those bills when they need to be paid. And You know, be in a high yield savings account as long as possible to earn that, interest rate, especially right now, those have gone up, which is nice.

[00:10:11] It’s hard when other, when it’s gone up on other things as well, but just know that your liquidity money that’s sitting there for an emergency can be earning some decent money right now. Yeah. 

[00:10:22] Desiree Stanley: I want to talk a little bit more about that specifically and, and also like how. Can you suggest that maybe for somebody who’s thinking this is really complicated, like this is a lot more than I wanted to get into, how could they keep it simple, but still, you know, earn more interest on their money while it’s sitting there and that kind of thing, what do you suggest?

[00:10:46] Dalene Higgins: So when you create your budget, instead of creating all of the categories, you can build out, you know, a first step, make sure you’re paying yourself. That’s your savings amount, and that is being divided [00:11:00] either between your employer investments and or your savings. Get that in there so that you don’t touch it.

[00:11:07] Then you have all your bills amount. So that’s one way to make sure those bills are getting, auto paid or you’re manually paying them on time and that money is in that account. And then another account, which is your spending. And you just keep an eye on that. And as long as you paid yourself first.

[00:11:23] Then, as long as you stay within that spending amount, you don’t overspend, then you’re okay. So in a sense, you’re only need to, you know, needing to worry about three things, here’s my savings, here’s my bills, and here’s the rest of the money. And I get to do with this, what I want and tell payday, and then I get this much more.

[00:11:40] There’s a lot of ways to be very. You know, simplistic, like even with your spending, if you’re like, okay, but I’m overspending that amount. Okay. Then pick one expense that you want to track and only track that. And don’t worry about anything else. So, you know, starting small, it’s, it’s just like running a [00:12:00] marathon.

[00:12:00] You don’t start out day one and go, I have to run 26 miles. Cause that’s what it’s going to be, you know? And it’s like the same with this. It’s like, okay, if you’re tracking your spending and you’ve never done it. Going from no tracking to full tracking is like, I’m sorry, but I don’t have time for that either, you know, and now I’m set up a, a budget.

[00:12:20] So it just comes in there. There’s lots of ways to do that, but it is a learning curve, but you know, just choosing one. If you’re like, I know I overspend at whether it’s clothing and shoes or. Eating out or whatever it may be. And you want to strive to be better, just focus on that one thing.

[00:12:38] And then eventually you’ll want to see more and you’ll be able to do more. 

[00:12:42] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Thank you for kind of going into a little bit more detail about that and showing how it, it can be simple, you know, really, if you’re just focusing on the kind of the three main important things, right? 

[00:12:56] Dalene Higgins: Yeah, exactly.

[00:12:57] Exactly. 

[00:12:59] Desiree Stanley: You were talking about [00:13:00] tracking expenses, and so really, how important is that in this process? 

[00:13:06] Dalene Higgins: You know, staying within how much money you have, it is kind of important. But creating that system that’s going to help you be successful in tracking that is also the second piece of it.

[00:13:19] I was working with a client who found herself divorced after 40 plus years. So, you know, technology, not really comfortable with. So we initially started out with pen and paper. I said, let’s just do pen and paper. You’re used to the checkbooks, right? The check registers that we had back in the days. And then she came to me after a couple of months and she goes, this is too much work.

[00:13:41] I didn’t want to have to worry about this. So I said, okay, let’s simplify it even more, you know? And so we just put her into the bank account system. And I said, you know, cause she had it all laid out. She had her bills. And she, had her savings and she was like, it’s already done.

[00:13:56] And I said, then you only need to worry about this bank account. [00:14:00] And if you look at it, you know, every two, three days, And know that, you know, if you went and spent a lot of money, see how much you have left. If you’re going to go spend money, see how much money you’ve got. And she, so you know, you can just set those gauges and set those measures differently for you, if you want.

[00:14:15] I had a client just text me today and she said, she’s on the budget app, I am as well. And it was a little bit of a learning curve, but she’s done well. And she texts me, she says, hey, so I have this subscription that I’ve been wanting to cancel. And I just keep forgetting. So instead of approving the expenses that she know and she was going to return the items, I just left them hanging there.

[00:14:37] So every time I get in my budget app, it was my reminder, you know, and so that the helpful side of that to somebody who’s very busy and involved, but needing to do those things that fit for her. So key is on tracking expenses is to find the your balance. Find where you’re comfortable, find what supports your [00:15:00] personality, and find what’s going to help get you to your goals.

[00:15:03] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, excellent. And you’ve mentioned a budgeting app. Is there one in particular that you’re describing or you just mean in general? 

[00:15:13] Dalene Higgins: You can use any one. I use YNAB and I’ve used it for, oh gosh, probably 10 ish years now. And so, you know, I have a lot of knowledge behind that one, but there are others.

[00:15:24] There’s Every Dollar, there’s Honeydew. You know, there’s a lot of things. They work very similar and you can hook them up to your bank account so that as your spending comes in, you just assign it to your budget lines in there. So, you know, it kind of automizes the whole process that way. And, it’s not a lot of tracking or keeping track of receipts yeah.

[00:15:45] Desiree Stanley: And then I know that, you were talking about pen and paper, and there are a lot of people who still are very uncomfortable with online banking and, using these kind of apps and stuff. And so what do you suggest for people who want to stick [00:16:00] to, pen and paper? Is there like using graph paper?

[00:16:03] Is it just lined paper? You know, is there something that you can suggest for people that, want to kind of stay old school? 

[00:16:10] Yeah, yeah. 

[00:16:11] Dalene Higgins: So your bank should still have check registers, so if you want to stay comfortably with that, you can grab some from them. You could also do a spreadsheet. So if you want to do computer, right, create it there.

[00:16:21] But otherwise a notebook is just going to be just as handy. You can Put the date, put where it was, or type of, you know, depends on how you want to write it on that line and the amount, just kind of keep going. And so tracking, you can track by category. If you have a set amount for groceries, and then you would kind of keep a sheet for that and kind of keep moving forward.

[00:16:42] Pen and paper, it worked for many years and there’s nothing wrong with that. And another option that I love is cash envelopes, especially if you’re just starting out. I know cash seems like, oh, but you know, it really gets you in tune. You’re touching money. [00:17:00] You’re seeing it leave your hands.

[00:17:01] You’re seeing that come into your hands. So some people really benefit from even just using that for a short period of time. And then they’ve learned their categories and then they can choose whether to go to just the bank accounts or a budget app. 

[00:17:15] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for bringing up that point about the cash envelopes, because I think that visually that is so helpful for some people, especially if you have a tendency to splurge buy and, you know, purchase things that you really don’t need when you actually are seeing that cash.

[00:17:33] Like you have to count it out and hand it to somebody else. I think that it brings to your awareness. Like, do I really need this item or not? 

[00:17:44] Dalene Higgins: Yeah. Yeah. It is. I would go to the bank. I use this for probably about two and a half years. Because I really needed to get down and dirty with my money because we had just my sister in law had passed, so now we were responsible for the mortgage on our house, which is a whole different [00:18:00] story, so we created Cash Envelopes, and it was, It was an amazing journey through that.

[00:18:08] I would go to the bank and I would, you know, have it spelled out. I need this many fifties, this many twenties, this many tens, all the way through. And, you know, they’d kind of look at me funny and then you come home, you put it in your envelopes, but. I wouldn’t necessarily take all the envelopes with me and I wouldn’t necessarily take the envelope with me either.

[00:18:28] So we’d go to the grocery store, you know, I’d just take the money with me that I was going to spend. But also watching people as you’re handing them cash and they look at you kind of funny. So it does put a little, element of fun and surprise in there on both sides, you know, at the bank. And then, When you’re spending it so that you can enjoy this journey as you’re trying to really understand your habits, become aware and awareness is huge that, you know, with the cards and Venmo and all of that.

[00:18:58] It is so [00:19:00] easy to just do and not really think about, right? It’s not saying the fact that you shouldn’t, it’s just that second step of, Oh, this amount of cash leaving my envelope is a lot. Do I really need it? So yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s such a good method to use to get in tune with yourself to, really zone into your awareness and build that up.

[00:19:26] So once I did that and went into, the budget app, I also use a credit card for all my expenses that I, I know what I spend and I know what I spend where, because I’ve done the cash for so long, . 

[00:19:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s excellent. Thank you for sharing that. And, and talking a little bit about also is your, you’re saying the money journey and it’s like the journey that you’re on and the things that you’re buying and what’s important to you and what’s going to get you to your goal.

[00:19:52] That is all important. And then you can appreciate what you’re buying. I think a little bit more when you do see that money go. It’s like, I’ve I’ve [00:20:00] worked for this money. I’ve earned this money. I’m spending this money on something I’m choosing and I enjoy. And I think that’s a positive way to look at it too. Right? 

[00:20:08] Dalene Higgins: Yes. Yes, exactly. This one gets a little more technical. So a lot of people don’t do this, but if you think about a purchase, And you divide it by your wage, your hourly wage, it’s going to tell you how many hours you actually had to work for that. And, you know, maybe not everything you want to do that with, but if you’re looking at buying, , a new piece of furniture because maybe you don’t need one.

[00:20:32] Just evaluating it from different aspects can really help you understand. You mean at a job that I don’t really care to be at and it’s 20 hours of my time is the cost of this couch, you know, and it just kind of helps put things in a different perspective. So you’re able to start being more in tune and being more intentional.

[00:20:55] And I think that’s what Being successful with your money is, is [00:21:00] learning to be intentional for you and where you’re headed and what you want out of life, right? So you’re not going to want the same things as I, because our level of fun and what we do and our hobbies and all of that is different. But, you know, understanding that I am intentional in my way and you’re intentional in your way, but it’s the same idea.

[00:21:22] It’s the same, it’s the same path we’re walking on to our different destinations. So 

[00:21:28] yeah. 

[00:21:29] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Excellent. Well, I want to change gears and go back to, you, you talked about retiring at 50 and You know, you said initially you were about 35 kind of looking at some of that. What if there’s somebody who’s doesn’t have that opportunity there.

[00:21:47] They’re beyond 35 now. They maybe already are 50 or above. What are some things maybe that they can do to begin this process to maybe help speed up [00:22:00] their time that they can retire? 

[00:22:02] Dalene Higgins: Yes. Yeah. So you’re 50 plus and you plan on retiring at 65 and shoot for that right now, right? See where you’re at.

[00:22:11] See what your retirement income is going to look like then maybe you have a little bit of savings in retirement. Anticipate what that’s going to grow to. And then start evaluating where you are in your spending right now again, right? So you have your budget, you know where you’re spending, you know what your current needs are.

[00:22:29] And then as you move forward, are you going to relocate? Are you going to downsize? You know, making all of those shifts at that time, that’s going to place another effect on it as well. And then from current, do you have a lot of debt? You can start paying that down because then that means you don’t need as much outgo.

[00:22:48] And so just trying to balance it from both sides of that and pursuing that you can leave. And who knows if you start on the journey at 50 and you’re aiming for [00:23:00] 65, my journey was only 15 years as well, you know, and so being intentional from this point forward and knowing what it is you want to have at 65, where are you going to live?

[00:23:12] What do you want? What does life look like to you? What is fun look like to you and all of those things. And so you’re going to kind of reverse engineer, but also look at your current state. Can I reduce my expenses? Can I reduce my debt? Because then I’m not going to need as much outgo. If you go to a financial planner, he’s going to ask, he, she is going to ask, Well, how much you want to live on.

[00:23:34] If you don’t know your budget now, how are you going to know it then? And so, you know, really getting focused and really start moving. And I know there’s also the thing they’re like, well, I just tell everybody they’re going to need 80% of their wages. Well, how does somebody know that? You know, I was able to step into mine at 60%.

[00:23:54] Because I had cut back everything that was outgoing of my check was going into savings [00:24:00] and I was able to live on 60% of my income, even prior to it. So, you know, that automation thing of, okay, you’re just going to need 80% of what you make right now. So if you’re making 60, 000 a year, 80% of that, well, what if you can live on 50% of that, you know?

[00:24:16] And so, I don’t know, I’m somebody who loves to take a challenge and prove somebody wrong. Nope, that’s not going to, you know, be the baseline, but what if you are that person that you’re currently living on 110% of your income, right? You’ve got to look at it from both sides and start preparing. So to be more action step pointed for those who are 50 start planning on retiring at 65, look at what you have now.

[00:24:43] You can anticipate the growth within that for, you know, the next 15 years. get a budget right now, get really, set on living on a certain amount, reducing your debt. And then as you reduce your debt, you’re going to increase your savings. And so [00:25:00] eventually, that 65 might come down to 62 and it might come down to 59.

[00:25:05] Now, here’s the caveat I also have to draw there. You can’t touch your 401s or your IRAs until age 59 and a half, right? But, if you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m doing so well and I didn’t think I was doing this well, But it looks like I could leave at 55, you’re going to have to plan and put things in a different investment pot so that you can touch it before that time.

[00:25:28] Just kind of figuring out that whole story and putting all the pieces together while it can seem daunting, hopefully you’ll think about it as an excitement. I’m headed into that next phase, and I want my next phase of life to be enjoyable. I want to have as much fun. Then as I am having now, or maybe more, I think we should have more fun in our later years.

[00:25:51] Desiree Stanley: Absolutely. I mean, you’ve worked so long, right? You should be able to enjoy that time when you stop working and [00:26:00] do whatever it is that you want to do and have the means to do that. And something I wanted to bring up was talking about paying down the debt, like as early as possible, because then, like you said, you shift that money into your savings and what happens when you put more money in savings in a high yield interest account, it’s going to build money and more money because then you’re talking about what, what happens to, to money on top of money on top of money.

[00:26:31] Dalene Higgins: Yeah, yeah, it grows, right? And I mean, so the advice I give my daughter, she’s 25. I’m like 50 a paycheck right now for the rest of your life until you retire. A 50 year old, you’re going to need to put a little bit more. And I don’t know that there’s an amount I can tell you. The amount I’m going to tell you is as much as you can, right?

[00:26:53] Put as much as you can in there. Also realize that if you’re paying money tax wise right now because kids have [00:27:00] left the nest and so Uncle Sam, you pay him a thousand dollars every year. Put that in your 401 and that’s a, that’s a one for one. You’re not going to have to pay him taxes. And guess what?

[00:27:11] You get that when you retire. Yes, you’ll have to pay taxes on it then, but you have the money. You have the money. It’s, putting it in, letting it grow, understanding that compound interest phrase, which go Google that if you can, you know, It’s not one of those terms that’s going to be too hard to look at, but it just means that that earns money.

[00:27:32] And then you add it to the baseline and that earns money. And now you’ve added that to the baseline and it just keeps growing. So yeah. 

[00:27:39] Desiree Stanley: For sure. And so you mentioned a younger person putting just 50 away you know, each month or whatever period of time they choose that compound interest. They’ve got.

[00:27:51] Such a long period of time before retirement. That’s going to build for them at a much higher rate than somebody who starts at 50. And so [00:28:00] again, going back to paying down the debt, as soon as you can, you’re going to give yourself more time to have that compound interest build, and then you’ll have more later.

[00:28:09] So fantastic. Yeah. Great points. Love it. And I really enjoy this, topic of saving money, investing money. And we have tried to teach our children these concepts as well, because, you know, our parents, we were lucky to have parents that taught us how to budget and save and plan for expenses.

[00:28:33] And so, we’re trying to pass that on to our children. And so I love that you’re on to share this with the audience because not everyone had that experience. experience growing up with parents who taught them how to save or to budget. And so, you know, to get this out to as many people as possible, I think is fantastic.

[00:28:52] And so what you’re doing, helping your clients meet their goals is fantastic as well. And I love it. [00:29:00] 

[00:29:00] Dalene Higgins: Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:29:01] Desiree Stanley: Well, so let’s talk a little bit about maybe some books that you want to suggest that the listeners maybe pick up and, or check out from the library and see if there’s some information in there that can help like reiterate what we’ve talked about and helping them meet their financial goals.

[00:29:20] Dalene Higgins: Yeah. So it just came to me. I have to share, back in my 20s you know, I went to the bookstore and I bought Retirement for Dummies. And the guy at the front’s looking at me because I’m in my 20s and I’m like, dude, I got to worry about it now, you know, so I don’t suggest that one. I’m sure it’s fine.

[00:29:38] I’m sure it’s fine. You know, anything on retirement, but my most favorite book I read was Financial Freedom by Grant Sabatier and just the pieces of advice in there. were nuggets that you could take and they were actionable. He wasn’t somebody who was, you know, talking at a high level. He [00:30:00] was talking and speaking in, everyday terms and giving you stuff.

[00:30:04] In fact, I did make my daughter listen to this. Audible I’m like, you have to listen to this big, you’ll understand why I’m saying all of these things I keep saying to you, but it is about financial freedom and that’s what we’re striving for when we retire. And my husband and I, he’s been retired for four years I’ve been retired for a year and he every.

[00:30:25] So often he says, all I have to do is wake up every day to get a paycheck. And I’m like, yeah, I guess that is the requirement is to wake up. But that is financial freedom, right? We have freedom of our time. We have freedom and choices of our jobs. And so reaching that at whatever age, and so maybe you’re not able to fully retire.

[00:30:46] you know, at 55, if that’s what you were wanting, but maybe you’re able to free up some of your time. And so that’s why I love his book is that it gives you the whole idea of freedom through not only financial, but [00:31:00] other different methods as well. But otherwise any book you’ll read any size, you know, cause I’m somebody that can devour over a thousand page books, but some people aren’t.

[00:31:11] So find you something that is small. And learn as much as you can. On my personal podcast, I share an episode of the six steps I used. And step six goes along with this. And this is the one that I repeated after, you know, over and over and over. And it’s that learning that little piece of information and really understanding it and learning how to apply it.

[00:31:35] So whatever it was, whether I was trying to cut my certain expenses or, you know, manage my money better, all of the things I would just learn as much as I could in all different places. So yeah, podcasts, blogs, if you’re a reader and not a listener, you know, books, all the things, YouTube, it’s everywhere, Instagram, and just.

[00:31:56] Consume what you can, but apply [00:32:00] it, and then choose another topic, learn about it, and apply it. And that is a rinse and repeat, keep going on, and your progress and knowledge, as you were saying. You know, I was lucky to have parents teach and model for me. And I know it’s not out there in our education space and any of this.

[00:32:19] And so we do have to take up on ourselves to learn. So, you know, just learn what you can do your best. I made my share of mistakes and mistakes are fine, right? You learn from them and you grow and then share with somebody else. 

[00:32:36] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. And I do want you to share the name of your podcast as well.

[00:32:40] So the listeners can check that out. 

[00:32:42] Dalene Higgins: Yes, it’s Wealthy After 40. And we talk about all things, you know, personal finance, savings, reducing debt, heading to financial freedom. 

[00:32:51] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. And I do want to touch on something that you mentioned about. Maybe you can’t retire entirely at [00:33:00] 55, like you thought, or 60, like you were hoping, but maybe you could reduce the amount of work that you’re doing or change careers into something else.

[00:33:10] That’s maybe a little bit more meaningful for you while you’re still earning that income. And so I think that’s something to consider as well. If you can, you know, make that happen to. Give you a little bit more sense of, of a retirement because you’re maybe not having to work as many hours at maybe a job that you don’t like.

[00:33:30] Dalene Higgins: Yes. Yes, exactly. And I think that’s the find the freedom where you can and just know it doesn’t have to be the way it is right now. 

[00:33:39] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, Daylene, I have so enjoyed our conversation, and I do want you to also share the best way that people can get in touch with you if they have questions that we maybe started to touch on, but they were like, Oh, I don’t quite understand that.

[00:33:57] How would they be able to reach out [00:34:00] to you and ask those questions? 

[00:34:02] Dalene Higgins: Yeah, reach out to me on Instagram at Elevate underscore finances and send me a dm Or you feel free to join my Facebook community it’s All Things Personal Finance jump in there and we are working on our way to financial freedom There is a group so i’d love to have you join that as well 

[00:34:20] Desiree Stanley: Awesome.

[00:34:20] And I’ll be sure to include all this information in the show notes so that people can easily find the groups and the Instagram and your podcast and all of that as well. So thank you again. It’s been such a delight to have you on the show. I so appreciate it. 

[00:34:36] Dalene Higgins: Thank you. It’s been awesome. 

[00:34:37] Desiree Stanley: All right.

[00:34:38] We’ll talk soon. 

____________

POK_Jenn Powell Podcast_07_26_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the pockets of knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my guest, Jenn Powell. Welcome to the show, Jenn. I’m so excited to have you on to talk about An Organized Perspective. And Jenn is the creator of this company that you launched. And we’re going to have you tell us about that right now, but again, Jenn, welcome to the show.

[00:00:26] Thank you for joining us. 

[00:00:28] Jenn Powell: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited. 

[00:00:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Go ahead and, and share with us what it was that kind of prompted you to begin this organized perspective. 

[00:00:40] Jenn Powell: Yeah, so I love this story cuz it it does speak to a lot of people, a lot of my clients actually, a lot of moms, it’s during covid, I am nursing a baby.

[00:00:51] I’m potty training a toddler and I’m starting to really realize I’m losing myself. I’m losing my [00:01:00] core identity, obviously as a mom, that’s one thing, but then your identity beyond being a mother I was like, what am I going to do? What I feel like I need to be doing something. I started, things started slowing down as like my youngest started getting older and I was like, okay, it’s time I need to do something and

[00:01:17] I couldn’t quite figure it out. I had a talk with a family member and she encouraged me to look into this as an option because I had just told her I was up until 11 o’clock one night, reorganizing my closet for the upteenth time or doing my pantry of the week before, and so it was, one of those things kind of a duh moment.

[00:01:41] It was, well, obviously I could do that and. I hit the ground running the next day and I started doing a bunch of research and seeing if it was a need in the area and I just kind of stuck with it and every part of this journey has. been [00:02:00] so amazing. I was always waiting for a kind of a kickback being like, Oh, that’s not going to work.

[00:02:05] You can’t do that for whatever reason. I was always waiting for that. And it, it never came about, it was like, this was all meant to be. And I really believe in the Universe telling me, you know, this is what you’re doing. This is what you need to be doing. So that’s kind of how I got started. I just jumped right into it and created, you know, my Instagram and my website and it just flourished.

[00:02:29] So that’s really, like the short or long version of that. 

[00:02:34] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And I think that a lot of people, when we first went into lockdown during the pandemic, we’re kind of faced with some of that, like, what do I do with myself? And then you start looking around your home and you go like, well, this doesn’t work and this doesn’t work.

[00:02:50] And so it sounds like that kind of is what happened for you. And then you found an outlet for that. And then began helping others. And so [00:03:00] tell us then once you, launched the Instagram and started sharing some of what you were doing, how did you build it beyond that? 

[00:03:08] Jenn Powell: Yeah. So my client base, I really thought I was going to be doing, you know, one client a week.

[00:03:13] And even, even if it’s a client every other week, it’ll be fine. I ended up posting on Nextdoor and I feel like in our area, in this area that I’m in, it’s Nextdoor is such a big, you know, a big part of the community. And I posted on that and I got quite a few hits and it just snowballed from there.

[00:03:34] I also use Yelp as well, but just not as much, but I’ve, I’ve found a majority of my clients through word of mouth and through Nextdoor. And it just, I’m still always in shock by how, how much it’s grown. It’s very exciting. 

[00:03:49] Desiree Stanley: I love it. That’s so great. You know, you made a good point about the word of mouth and we so often share [00:04:00] our good experiences with others and our bad experiences.

[00:04:03] And, you know, we I’ve talked to other people on the show about that. When we have those bad experiences, we tell everybody. Right. And so. That word of mouth, it sounds like really helped you grow the business just beyond the one client a week that you thought you initially were going to be helping. So that’s excellent.

[00:04:24] Jenn Powell: Yeah, definitely. It was, it was quite a surprise. 

[00:04:28] Desiree Stanley: What a great resource too. Yelp is one of those places that you love it or you hate it, but it often has such great feedback, right? So if there’s something you need to improve on, that’s a great place you can learn from, I think. 

[00:04:44] Jenn Powell: Yeah, definitely. I agree. 

[00:04:46] Desiree Stanley: Well, so tell us then what are some of the

[00:04:48] I guess let’s say biggest pain points that you see for your clients in organizing. 

[00:04:55] Jenn Powell: Yeah. One of the big things that I think the [00:05:00] big issue is just too much of everything. It’s a lot of. slow accumulation and not being aware of it. And then they turn around and they’re like, Oh, well, how did I get here?

[00:05:13] How did, and then it’s just a huge, overwhelming thing. And then that leads into not being able to get rid of the things that we’re not using anymore. And that’s a majority of, of my clients. It’s just, it’s just too much of everything. And then, yeah, it’s just, it’s rough. 

[00:05:31] Desiree Stanley: So talking about overwhelm, and that is huge I think for so many people and for like myself as well, These things just creep into your house.

[00:05:44] And if you just, you’re tucking things here and you’re tucking things there, and then you just don’t realize how much stuff you actually have. So I can completely understand that. And so then how are you helping clients who are, are [00:06:00] overwhelmed like that and just suddenly turn around and go like, wow, how did I end up with all this stuff?

[00:06:05] Jenn Powell: Yeah, that’s a good question. What I, I think I do to help them is really to give them a road map. And, and encourage them that they’re not the only ones doing this. This is not a weird, they’re not the weird ones. They’re not out of the norm. I think that’s like a huge issue with a lot of, a lot of people.

[00:06:25] They’re like, Oh my God, it’s, it’s only my garage or my, my closet is the worst closet ever. And it’s like, no, there’s no worst. It’s all different. So I think making sure that they know like that they are not alone. I’m not there to judge them and to give them a road map and encourage them that this isn’t the worst case scenario.

[00:06:45] This is going to get done. It’s gonna, there might be hard part. There might be issues with You know, making room for certain things. And I think that them knowing that I have their back is a big [00:07:00] part of that. It kind of irons out the overwhelm.

[00:07:03] Desiree Stanley: Sure. And so what about some steps that you’re suggesting that they begin to take to combat some of that, you know, extra stuff? What are some things that maybe you’re suggesting that is helping them? 

[00:07:19] Jenn Powell: Yeah, so a lot of the times it’s starting with, Removing the junk, removing the trash, getting, getting the things out there that are, they, they don’t need to be sold, resold.

[00:07:33] They don’t need to be put in a different spot in the home. It’s literally the things that just need to go in the trash because once those things are out, once that first step happens, you can see things a lot clearer. And then after that, then it’s, it’s finding out what are we going to get rid of, what are we going to donate, doing a donate pile.

[00:07:51] And then there’s also a re home pile. So a pile that, of things like, well that doesn’t belong in the bathroom, that goes in the kitchen [00:08:00] for whatever reason. So. That’s another part that I don’t think a lot of people think of and getting them into that step of and changing their mindset to start doing that on their own is a big part of it as well, getting them to kind of encourage them that they’re able to do that, empowering them to do that.

[00:08:18] And once you get those things out of there, the things that don’t belong that the junk, the donation stuff. It’s, it’s a lot easier to get things organized to get things. I say it a lot and I’ll probably say it again but apples with apples and oranges with oranges. I’m trying to get your categories set for each space.

[00:08:37] Desiree Stanley: Oh, for sure. Fantastic points too, because like you said, those things that aren’t in the right place, just put them where they need to be, where it makes sense for them to be. That’s easy to do, right? And then like the trash, oh my gosh, things that just really need to be thrown away or donated, like you said, easy things to do.

[00:08:59] It’s those [00:09:00] things like… You need to resell it or it needs to be fixed or something, you know, that requires a little bit more effort. I think that then at that point, I’m assuming you say, set those aside and then tackle those later. Right. 

[00:09:15] Jenn Powell: Yeah. And I really do ask my clients every time, if there’s one of those things, something’s broken, do you want to spend the time to get that fixed?

[00:09:23] Do you like, have you, how long have you known this is broken? Do you want to spend the time on it? Because. Yes, you might save money, but how much time is it taking you? Because that’s also costing you something. It’s not just like, oh that I fixed that and now I don’t have to buy it. Well, how long did it take you?

[00:09:45] And are you actually going to do it? Trying to be honest, like having my clients be honest with themselves is a huge part of it. You know, really being aware of the situation is, it’s hard because you’re in it. And that’s why I, I try to [00:10:00] take people out of it, look at from the other side of things, you know, a different perspective and it helps them a lot to go, yeah, I don’t need that.

[00:10:09] I’m not going to use it. 

[00:10:11] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Or I’m not going to get it fixed. 

[00:10:14] Jenn Powell: Not going to do it, not going to, and then even, I don’t even want to bother spending the time selling it on Nextdoor or Facebook marketplace. I don’t even want to deal with it. So that’s usually what happens. 

[00:10:26] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Good point. And, and I love that you said a different perspective.

[00:10:31] And so I’m assuming that’s, you know, kind of where you got your name from, right. An organized perspective. And so it’s changing how you’re looking at stuff and organizing. I love it. 

[00:10:44] Jenn Powell: Yes. Yeah. I just bringing a new set of eyes into a space and it’s crazy how much that helps that can help. 

[00:10:50] Desiree Stanley: Well, so let’s talk a little bit about what you have shared with me and that a lot of times people maybe have a big [00:11:00] change that’s going to be happening in their home. And that could be maybe a new baby or a family member that’s going to have to move in. And so these big changes that, you know, you may be encountering, like, how do you help them prepare for that with their home? 

[00:11:16] Jenn Powell: Yeah, good question. The first thing to start off is basically what are your goals and your needs for this particular space or this particular change in life. A new baby’s coming and we got to change rooms and we got to put baby in here and, or we just need to start making room for those. So making sure that the client, like that, you know, what your end goal is here and what your needs are for that spot.

[00:11:43] And I think. It seems like a very obvious thing, but I don’t think people really sit down and are mindful of that before they get started with a project. And so I like to make sure that obviously I need to be aware of that. And by talking to my clients, it helps them. So [00:12:00] much it gets them like kind of we’re all on the same page and even if they need to write it down I like to write things down for them and put it on notes and share it like these are the goals that you mentioned and just writing things down helps everybody so Yeah, so that would be like the first step and then like I said going back to removing the junk so getting everything out Getting things out that are not needed, they’re not gonna serve that new chapter of your life, are we going to, like, do we need to keep this, say you’re retiring, say you’re retiring, you and your spouse are retiring.

[00:12:35] Okay. We’re going to downsize. We don’t need like three dressers. We need one dresser or whatever it is. So just being aware of that kind of stuff, getting rid of the junk and then purging, purging the clothes. There’s probably way too many clothes in a certain space. And then after everything’s gone that we don’t need, it’s really taking inventory of what we are going to keep and getting with all of that, with all of the things that we are [00:13:00] keeping, creating a system.

[00:13:02] We like to create a system that’s going to keep those things in, in some kind of order, and making it work for this new transition and like with a baby, you need to have everything kind of set up, ready to go, easy to throw onesies back into a thing or restocking diapers, just making it As easy as possible because we, you know, we know how hard that can be that transition can be especially when it’s the first or, you know, or the third whatever so setting up those systems is key.

[00:13:37] And then the other thing is adjusting it as necessary and knowing I tell my clients this all the time is nothing that we do is in cement. So, you can change things things can go. That is just driving me nuts. And I tell them it’s not going to hurt my feelings. I, you’re living in it. You have to change it if you need to.

[00:13:57] So I’m always available to, you know, for [00:14:00] calls or texts going, this is bugging me. How do I adjust this? We can always iron it out. So that’s usually the case. That’s like the, the base model of what needs to happen when we have these big changes in our lives. And number one, like I said, is Really just knowing what your needs and your goals are. That’ll get you so far. 

[00:14:21] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, you know, I want to go back to a couple of things that you said, and that’s writing things down, writing down like the end goal. And, you know, the things that you, you think you’re going to need, you don’t, you are certain you don’t need. And, really kind of formulating a plan there, because I think that you lose these kind of thoughts in your mind because you’re like, Oh, what about this? And what about that? And it’s like, if you get it down on paper now, it’s like, Oh, I didn’t forget about that. And we thought through everything and it’s all right here. So that’s a fantastic tip. And also, I love [00:15:00] that you pointed out about being flexible and it’s okay to make changes as you go, as you realize that something’s maybe not working as well as you thought it might and making it work a little bit better for you. So those are excellent tips. I love it. 

[00:15:14] Jenn Powell: Yeah. It’s going back to writing things down. A lot of times what happens, it has to do with that overwhelm we were talking about, people get into such a tailspin when they don’t just have it, you know, just write it on your mirror in your bathroom with a dry erase, just get it on paper so that you don’t have to keep going, circling back to it.

[00:15:34] Again little simple things that seem so obvious, but we just kind of just need a little like flick in the face to do it. I’ll smack around. 

[00:15:44] Desiree Stanley: That’s awesome. Well, so then let’s talk a little bit about what are the Most common areas that you’re seeing that people need help with you’ve talked about closets maybe being just stuffed full of clothes.

[00:15:58] So I’m assuming that’s got to be [00:16:00] one of the top places and probably pantries or kitchens. It’s got to be another top place. So what have you found? 

[00:16:08] Jenn Powell: Yeah, so a lot of times I’ve seen a lot of garages. The garages seem to be the places that get things just kind of chucked in over and over again where it’s just piled and piled and piled.

[00:16:20] I see a lot of garages. The other thing is the pantries in specifically separate from kitchen, the pantries, because those are those places that are getting touched every single day. And a lot of times pantries are too deep or there’s little weird sections to it and there’s just not there’s no system in place for it yet.

[00:16:40] A lot of that and then I, for me particularly there’s been a lot of playrooms, kids rooms, which I love that those are one of my favorites to do. But because they’re just so much fun. But yeah, that the kids toys get out of control, and I think it’s not being aware of [00:17:00] the next chapter your kids are ready to be in so getting rid of the baby toys, the board books, you know, and your kid’s already 10 years old, and you’re like, okay, those can be gone now.

[00:17:11] Making room for the next chapter is really a big part of what I do. 

[00:17:16] Desiree Stanley: And so it sounds like, you know, talking about the pantry, maybe there’s no organization in there. The shelves maybe aren’t the right depth or they’re, you know, weird angles. So what are some suggestions maybe that people can use to help bring some order into those spaces?

[00:17:35] Jenn Powell: Like I said before, I told you, I’d say it again, apples with apples and oranges with oranges. So getting everything into categories. Well, number one, throwing away anything that’s expired. That’s easy. Easy. It’s expired? Toss it. Maybe not like cereal that’s, two days expired, but you know so getting that stuff out of there and then really before incorporating [00:18:00] any If you want to do bins or baskets labels, making sure you get those categories down, but also measure everything, have your measurements , keep it on your phone so that if you’re at target or you’re at the dollar store or the container store, whatever you want to go to, you have the right, the right size for everything, because you don’t want to go.

[00:18:20] Through all that work and bring it back home and it doesn’t fit. Number one rule is always measure before you go shopping. So and labeling, I think labeling in a pantry is a huge, huge asset because. It keeps you accountable. It kind of keeps you in line. And then another rule in that in the pantry is keeping enough white space.

[00:18:40] We call it like white space so that if you do go to Costco and you get a large, you know, thing of cashews or something, you want to have room to place it. You can shimmy things over and place it in to a spot. You don’t want to have everything totally perfect. This is actually real life. This isn’t, [00:19:00] you know, TV, this isn’t Netflix.

[00:19:01] So you want to make sure that you can add to it. And nothing’s going to ever be perfect because we do live in our homes, but I think creating that white space is, is totally key into setting you up for success. 

[00:19:17] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, excellent points. I love it. Making sure you’ve got the measurements. That’s huge. I have recently bought some baskets for my pantry and, you know, thinking they’re going to fit on the shelf this way and they don’t.

[00:19:31] So I have to put them this way and it doesn’t fit. It works, but you know, it, I had to rearrange everything to make it fit that way. So that would have been good to know ahead of time. And also the white space and you’re right, like having the room to be able to shift things around as other things come in is fantastic tips.

[00:19:52] So thank you for sharing those. 

[00:19:54] Jenn Powell: Yeah, 

[00:19:55] Desiree Stanley: I love it. Well, so let’s talk now about[00:20:00] if there was any challenges that you kind of experienced going through this process of whether it be setting up your business you know, generating new business, dealing with clients, anything you’d like to share on that?

[00:20:15] Jenn Powell: Yeah. I think honestly, my biggest challenge was the female imposter syndrome just really, I would go, okay, I know I’m good at this, but for some reason I would see someone on Instagram doing a better job or I would just feel some kind of weird energy.

[00:20:33] I’m like, oh, I can’t do this. I’m not good at this. This is how, why would I ever think I could do this? Like, I, I can’t, this is horrible. And then I had to really. Be so mindful of that. Cause that can get me down so quickly. And I know that’s, that’s not an uncommon issue for especially women. I, I had to really be mindful of it and, you know, kick myself in the pants and go, no, like.[00:21:00] 

[00:21:00] You have clients that, that appreciate you, that are friends now. I become very close with these people pretty easily. I’m in their underwear drawers, so I would hope so. But it, the imposter syndrome was so hard for me and it still gets to me, to be honest, it really, I’ve, I’ve slowed down a little bit for the summer and I feel like, Oh, well, that’s not right.

[00:21:24] I can’t be doing that. But I, I get to do it. So I have to go, I get to do this. I get to do this. I think the other big challenge in relation to that is my very first client. I had to postpone because I had a sick kid. And I think that was one of those things. I was like, why did I ever think I could do this?

[00:21:45] This is horrible. I, I’ve made a huge error. I have two little kids. Why do I think that this is okay? Just totally my inner critic just being so mean, you know, and so those were my big challenges. It wasn’t anything to do [00:22:00] with any difficult clients. I have the best clients. I’ve always has people have people ask me, do you have a really bad client?

[00:22:07] Do you have a mean client? Like never. I have the best clients. I can’t even. Think about how lucky I am. It’s, it’s just amazing. So yeah, the challenges are really all the things in here. Those are the challenges. So, and as long as I know that, and I’m aware of it, I know that I’m going to be okay.

[00:22:27] I know that I’m going to, I’m going to succeed in whatever capacity I want to. 

[00:22:32] Desiree Stanley: That’s so excellent. Thank you for sharing that. And, and you’re so right on, you’re not the only one. And we do that to ourselves so often to just thinking like somebody else is doing it better. Why did I think I could even do it?

[00:22:48] And I mean, I’ve had those thoughts as well about my podcast and comparing myself to other podcast hosts. And it’s like, you just have to realize that. You have something to offer [00:23:00] and you have skills and you have knowledge and experience and, and what you have to share is important. And so I love that you, you know, share that, that is your challenge and how you’re overcoming that.

[00:23:10] And that’s working on your mind 

[00:23:13] Jenn Powell: mindset. Perspective. That’s right. 

[00:23:16] Desiree Stanley: Absolutely. Mindset reset , and perspective. Yeah, for sure. Awesome. Well, so then let’s talk a little bit about some more tips that you can share if somebody is. Getting ready to begin working on say their garage. And it is that, you know, huge overwhelm.

[00:23:36] And it really, that becomes the catchall, right? The absolute catchall, just put it in the garage. So what’s maybe some tips that you could share that can help people who are getting ready to tackle like a really big project like that? 

[00:23:48] Jenn Powell: Yeah, I think something I say a lot is Set yourself up for success.

[00:23:55] Set yourself up for each session to be successful. [00:24:00] Set a timer. I love if I give my clients homework, if I’ve started something and I’m like, these are the things I need you to kind of go through. These are things I need you to make decisions on. I always tell them, set a timer for 30 minutes, an hour, even two hours.

[00:24:16] Race the clock and do as much as you can in those two hours. Stay in that one spot, grab your water, turn music on make it, give yourself an environment of Of doing and I think that that one tip has helped people so much because it’s kind of a game, you kind of make it a game and if you, especially if you do a 30 minutes and you’re like, I have 45 minutes until I need to go pick up kids from school.

[00:24:46] So I basically have 30 minutes to get something done. Let me just do as much as I can. And again, going back to starting just grab a trash bag. Or a bin or whatever and just grab the trash because there’s so many times we have, I mean, I’m trying to [00:25:00] look like I probably have, I have like a piece of trash on my desk right now that I, I don’t know why it’s there.

[00:25:05] It’s just sitting there, you know, it’s. It’s just human nature, I think. So, especially a garage, there’s going to be things that are in nooks and crannies, and I think starting with the trash first, and then, and then going down our list of trash, and then donate, and then does this need to go somewhere else?

[00:25:25] A lot of times with the garage, The garage specifically, a lot of the times, everything in the garage really is supposed to be in the garage or it needs to go up in the attic if applicable. So that’s, that’s huge. That’s like the number one thing is setting, giving yourself this environment of, of success and productivity.

[00:25:45] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. And that the, the tip that you just shared about setting a timer is so good because I think when you. Think about having to tackle something like that you immediately think it’s going to take me [00:26:00] forever and I don’t have forever.

[00:26:02] And so by saying, okay, just start with 30 minutes and do what you can, or start with the hour, if you’ve got it, that’s a great tip, set a timer, get that music going, focus for just until that timer goes off and then. You’re done and move on. 

[00:26:19] Jenn Powell: Yeah. And always, I always say, if you have an Apple watch, not an ad, obviously, but like your workout, me doing a workout on it.

[00:26:27] And then you’re getting credit. I feel like it makes you like, go, okay, I need to move. I’m going to keep doing this. And the other thing in relation to that, going back a little bit is. If you see something and you’re like, Oh Oh shoot, this needs to go in the kitchen. Don’t bring it to the kitchen, make a pile, make a re home box.

[00:26:44] And, and after your timer’s off, then go deal with that part. Because a lot of times I’ve found is, I mean, I do it too. As I get distracted, I get like, Oh, I need to make this grilled cheese sandwich and then I get distracted and Oh, I got to clean this. And it’s just, [00:27:00] whatever.

[00:27:00] I’m like thinking of what my day was like today. And I burnt a grilled cheese sandwich. 

[00:27:04] Desiree Stanley: but you know what? You brought up such a good point right there, because I think that we’re all. That happens just so often is you see something that needs to be somewhere else and so you run to go take it to where it needs to be.

[00:27:17] And then you’ve lost any momentum that you had on the space you were working on. And then you wherever you go to, and now you’re suddenly like, Oh, there’s this I need to do here. And then it takes you somewhere else and you’re zigzagging all over the house. Yep. Right. And not getting the thing done that you really need to do.

[00:27:34] So that’s another great point is just set it aside in a pile that you’ll deal with when your timer’s up. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. 

[00:27:43] Jenn Powell: This can happen. This is for any space really. Any space that you’re, you know, trying to tackle, but yeah, garage is trying to just start slow, start small.

[00:27:53] Don’t look at the big picture. Look at the corner first and yeah, that’s, that’s the only way you’re going to be able to [00:28:00] do it without. You know, tailspinning really. 

[00:28:04] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And, and what do they always say about, you can eat an elephant, but it’s like one bite at a time, right? So the garage is the elephant and you can only just eat one little section at a time, right?

[00:28:15] So you just work on that section until it’s done and then move on. So that’s, that’s brilliant. Very true. Yeah. Well, so I want to talk a little bit about because you shared with us in the beginning about how you launched it and kind of what was some of the, the driving factors for that. But maybe what were some of the key decisions that you had to make to kind of, you know, have this come about?

[00:28:43] Jenn Powell: Oh, so that’s a good question. I think the big part was Can I do this? How do I, I relied a lot on my mom and my mother in law to watch kids for [00:29:00] that beginning part. Can I set up a schedule with them? And then my son ended up going into preschool.

[00:29:04] So then that was one kid down. And then my daughter is the younger one. And so I, could I. Could I find people to watch her while I’m doing this? That was, that was the big hurdle because I was in that, that was the chapter I was in. Things are getting easier now that kids are going to be going back into school full time, full time, like together, one school, one drop off.

[00:29:29] My life is going to be so much easier in certain ways. I think , that was like the big part . I did get a lot of encouragement from family and friends. I think that was what I needed. I did need a lot of that. And I did get the support from the grandmas to watch kids. And that was the big hurdle.

[00:29:47] And then I didn’t know anything about starting a business. I had no idea what I was doing. So I really needed to make sure that I was doing it right. I needed to start on the right foot. [00:30:00] And, I think I did that. I did a lot of research. There was a lot of research going on for like four months, I think.

[00:30:08] And it helped a lot. It helped to be able to iron that out. And I wrote everything down and yeah, that was kind of, those were the big things that I needed to start with. 

[00:30:21] Desiree Stanley: That’s great. and. Something that you brought up there about like not even knowing how to start a business and like what you needed to do for that, because I think that’s a huge hurdle for people that you don’t know what you don’t know.

[00:30:35] And it’s so overwhelming. And it’s like, you do just have to dig into some research and find out like. What are the steps? What do I need to do to start a business? What are the thing, the processes and all of that? And so that’s a great point is, you know, just starting with some research and Google’s phenomenal, right?

[00:30:54] Everything is on Google. Yeah. Just ask Google, how do I start a business? And you know, there’s the [00:31:00] answer for you. 

[00:31:01] Jenn Powell: Don’t take every word. Don’t take word for everything. But yeah. Yeah. 

[00:31:04] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Mostly it’s all there. 

[00:31:06] Jenn Powell: YouTube. YouTube was my best friend for sure. . 

[00:31:09] Desiree Stanley: Yes. And, and another place of course, to learn so much is on YouTube, so, yeah.

[00:31:14] Fantastic. thank you for sharing those. And, and so that leads me to another question. Just are there any books that you have read maybe related to organization or any other books that you think would be beneficial or helpful for the listeners that you wanna share? That would be great. 

[00:31:34] Jenn Powell: Yeah. So a couple of podcasts that I started listening to, I found these people on YouTube and then I started listening to their podcasts, but in particular with starting a professional organizing businesses the Pro Organizer Bootcamp it’s Melissa Merrill, I think is how you say her last name.

[00:31:52] She’s great. She’s very encouraging. I love listening to her stuff. And then also I Speak Organized at Melanie [00:32:00] Summers, I think it is she is, she’s also great like about like how all the steps of what you need to do, all the things to think about how to, how to talk about pricing, how to, you know, do you do an LLC, just everything.

[00:32:14] Everything that you can think of. And then the, one of the books that I read first was Profit First by Mike Michalowicz, Profit First was very helpful. It was It was an easy read. It was very black and white, and I don’t have a good finance brain.

[00:32:32] I’m that’s just not who I am and that’s okay. But he just laid it out so easily that I was like, okay, I can, I can do that. I can set that up. And he talks about setting up different accounts for different situations. And it was just. very helpful. I just think I need to reread that book again, because it was that helpful.

[00:32:52] And it’s something that I always think about. And I always recommend that book. But those are the ones that I read that I listened to and read that I how I [00:33:00] got started. And then something I’ve read. I’ve read a lot of like minimalist mom books just a lot of like the playroom stuff, not like, I’m not someone that’s going to encourage like, let’s have five blocks for our baby and that’s it.

[00:33:12] That’s not realistic because we get gifts and we live in the real world, but just kind of being mindful of. You know, how much we’re really putting in our home and what we’re putting in our home and how distracting those things are. So those are another set of books that I’ve read recently.

[00:33:30] There’s so much stuff out there right now. 

[00:33:32] Desiree Stanley: For sure. And I’ll include the details of those, the book that you just suggested at Profit First, one of my other guests had mentioned that as well. So fantastic advice. And I haven’t read it surprisingly. But I, I think I’ve got to read it now and then I’ll include the podcast names that you’ve suggested as well in the show notes.

[00:33:53] So the listeners can take a look at those and get some hopefully great advice from there as well. 

[00:33:59] Jenn Powell: [00:34:00] Yeah, definitely. 

[00:34:00] Desiree Stanley: Well, so I’d love for you to share your website and your Instagram, anything you’d like to share. And especially if listeners have questions, they want to reach out and maybe pick your brain on something.

[00:34:13] How would they do that easily. 

[00:34:16] Jenn Powell: Yeah. So I think the best way is to go through Instagram. You can see what I, what I do and. I always have tips on there and quotes and, you know, just inspirational stuff. And you can always message me through Instagram and it’s an organize perspective. And that’s my handle. And I think that’s always the best way to get ahold of me. And then you can go through there and find my website and, you know, check that all of that kind of stuff out as well. And you can text me, whatever. And I’m always up for if someone needs to pick my brain, I always love that so I can talk about it forever.

[00:34:53] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Well, thank you. And I’ll make sure to put that in the notes as well. And Jenn, thank you [00:35:00] so much for being on the show. I love the tips that you shared is so helpful and really some very easy things that you can do to get started on, a project maybe that you’ve been putting off or, you know, something you just feel like you need to work on around your home.

[00:35:16] I love it. Thank you so much for, for sharing all of that with us. I so appreciate it. 

[00:35:22] Jenn Powell: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It’s been so nice talking to you. 

[00:35:26] Desiree Stanley: Excellent. Well, we’ll talk more soon. 

[00:35:29] Jenn Powell: Sounds good. 

____________

POK_Dr Laura Sinko Podcast_07_20_2023

[00:00:07] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley. And with me today is my esteemed guest, Dr. Laura Sinko. Welcome to the show. I’m so honored that you’re on with us today. Thank you for joining us. 

[00:00:24] Dr Laura Sinko: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited. 

[00:00:27] Desiree Stanley: So Dr. Laura Sinko is the, let’s see if I get this right, the Director of Research and Evaluation at Our Wave.

[00:00:36] And I’m going to have you go ahead and just jump in and tell us what Our Wave is and kind of how it developed, how it grew, the mission and the vision of Our Wave. 

[00:00:49] Dr Laura Sinko: Yeah, thank you so much. So Our Wave is truly a labor of love. It was founded by my two friends Kyle and Brendan. They had someone in their life experience sexual [00:01:00] violence and they really wanted to figure out how can we better support survivors seeking help after these experiences.

[00:01:06] So really, really early on in their development, I met them at a conference. I am a mental health nurse and a sexual assault nurse examiner by clinical training. I also have a PhD and I focus on healing and recovery after sexual violence as my research. So when I heard what they were doing and building this platform to support survivors of sexual harm, I was all in and really excited to work with them.

[00:01:29] That was about five years ago now. So we’ve grown but our platform is an online space for survivors of sexual violence and harassment to share their stories. And most importantly, think about what healing looks like for them and connect with other survivors who’ve experienced these things.

[00:01:49] We’ve also grown and expanded to answer survivors frequently asked questions, we also provide educational consultation for different organizations, online exhibits [00:02:00] featuring survivor artwork, and really the goal of Our Wave is to improve the technological tools that survivors have available, support their healing journey online.

[00:02:10] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s wonderful. And when I did learn about Our Wave, I was immediately drawn to what an amazing organization and the work that you’re doing to help the survivors of, as you said, sexual harm. 

[00:02:23] And I said, I’ve got to have someone come on. And so I’m so glad you did. And thank you for, for sharing kind of the history and how it started.

[00:02:32] And so I want to ask you a few more questions, obviously, because this is such an important topic and what you guys are doing is so great. And so tell us a little bit, because I know you do research on how storytelling can really help in the healing process. And so can you share with us more about what that means and what that looks like?

[00:02:57] Dr Laura Sinko: Yeah. So [00:03:00] sharing your story after these experiences can be very different depending on the individual. And what we know through research is the first people you share your story to, their reaction and their support can really determine the trajectory of your healing. If you get blaming responses or people who don’t believe you, it can really make it challenging to begin healing.

[00:03:19] Whereas do you have a supportive environment where people listen and validate you? You can have a much better better experience. So the process of being heard can be very important for healing, but also the process of telling your story, really authoring it can help you make sense of really what happened to me and putting into words, these things that can be really difficult to describe.

[00:03:41] So survivors have shared that by sharing their story on their own terms when they’re ready, it really can help them take stock about what their healing needs might be. And it also helps them get connected to the supports and the different organizations that may be able to help them along their journey.

[00:03:57] So really, with Our Wave, we wanted to [00:04:00] provide an anonymous space where survivors could share their story, especially with the Me Too movement and all of these wonderful activism Momentum that we’ve had on social media, not everybody has the privilege or the willingness to link their personal identity to their story for a variety of reasons, safety concerns not wanting everyone to know this about them.

[00:04:20] So we wanted to still provide people that opportunity to connect, to share, to have their experience be heard but also in an anonymous way to protect their identity and just help them practice what it might be like to share their story for when they’re ready to tell someone in their own life. 

[00:04:36] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s great that you just pointed out that it is anonymous.

[00:04:41] And so you’re absolutely right. There are a lot of people who, as you said, just aren’t willing to share that information with the people closest to them or in general. Having that option that it is anonymous, you can speak a little bit more freely without concern of any kind of [00:05:00] repercussion that might come from, from that coming out.

[00:05:03] Thank you for, for pointing that out and sharing that. And so you also did mention some of the different things that we’ve seen recently, like the Me Too movement and all of that. So that kind of brings me to some common myths that are associated with, you know, the sexual harm survivors and, kind of the blaming, victim blaming and that kind of thing.

[00:05:26] Can you talk to us a little bit more about that and how, Our Wave is helping the survivors with some of that and also getting knowledge out to the public in general. 

[00:05:36] Dr Laura Sinko: Yeah, I mean, I think that’s so critical. We often have this idea that certain people experience sexual harm. Maybe they we consider them risk takers, we might say oh they may have had a challenging childhood that quote unquote puts them in these situations that may be there to blame for some reason.

[00:05:56] And we get these messages from a very young age research shows that [00:06:00] like, even just hearing these messages from our parents that, especially as women, it’s our jobs to keep ourselves safe. Well, if something happens to us, we often feel like we failed in some way. And so that’s something that is really powerful and sticks with people.

[00:06:15] And I also think this idea of a certain type of survivor being a certain type of way, Our Wave really wants to break down that stereotype. And that’s why by having this anonymous place, it creates space for more narratives than just the typical one that we often see in the movies. The typical scenario of it’s a stranger who pulls you in an alley.

[00:06:36] And while that is a terrible thing to experience, it’s often so much more nuanced and complex compared to that. So really what we’re trying to do is by creating an anonymous space, we hope to really reveal all the different types of narratives to recognize that the person who experienced sexual harm could be your friend.

[00:06:53] It could be your parent. It could be your barista, survivors are really everywhere. And the more we recognize that the more we can be [00:07:00] trauma informed and just kind to others when we interact with them. 

[00:07:04] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s fantastic point. We do often have like this sort of stereotypical thought about who the person might be.

[00:07:12] And we are, we’re really way off, right? Because it’s unfortunate that it’s everyone, it has affected, you know, everyone and probably people that, you don’t realize it has happened to. And so it’s unfortunate, but it’s true. And the point that you made also about the, Going back to the victim blaming and, people not believing your story.

[00:07:36] I want to talk a little bit more about that. And so what you guys have found has helped those people who have been in that situation, if you could share with us maybe some tools or things that you have used to help those people. 

[00:07:50] Dr Laura Sinko: Yeah. You share your story and someone doesn’t believe you or they blame you, it can really start this cycle, this internal cycle of shame, [00:08:00] self blame, guilt, maybe even fear.

[00:08:03] And that can often cause people to withdraw from society from their loved ones, their supports. And so one of the goals of Our Wave to start to really bring those people back in by connecting them with a community of survivors who really can help them recognize. Unfortunately, these experiences of not being believed are quite common.

[00:08:23] While they’re not right, they are common. And so being able to recognize with an army of people behind you that that’s not right just because someone blamed you doesn’t mean that they were correct in that and really just trying to show and answer people’s questions too, we have a space an anonymous space where people can submit questions to us.

[00:08:41] We provide evidence based answers and so we so frequently get questions like how do I know if I’m to blame for my experiences, or how do I know if what I experienced is quote unquote bad enough to seek help for or to report. And so a lot of that is just kind of being able to post those [00:09:00] questions in an anonymous way and have someone answer you can really be helpful to start to break down some of those internal dialogues of it’s my fault.

[00:09:08] If you could hear from someone who’s an expert that says, actually, this feeling self blame or shame is quite common. Here’s the statistics. And also, this is why you shouldn’t feel this way. This is what society is doing to you. This is how all these different things interact that really can cause you to feel paralyzed.

[00:09:26] And it’s not your fault that you feel this way. It absolutely makes sense. Our bodies and our minds are trying to protect us from all this different stimuli that might be telling us that something is going on within ourselves. 

[00:09:37] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and I think that’s excellent that you guys offer that, you know, place for people to ask those questions anonymously.

[00:09:44] And what you brought up about is this thing that happened to me big enough to report. Because I think that there’s times when you go like, oh, it wasn’t that big of a deal or it really wasn’t that awful or [00:10:00] whatever the case may be like the situation. I think that just happened in Italy where somebody you know, groped a person and it was only 10 seconds.

[00:10:08] And so that was just nothing right? So they got off and it was like, wait a minute here. But does that really even make a difference? The time that shouldn’t make the difference. Right? 

[00:10:22] Dr Laura Sinko: Absolutely. Violence is just so normalized in our society. And that’s often kind of expected and people will chalk it up to, Oh, it was just maybe quote unquote bad sex, or he’s just a trash person, you know, especially you hear that a lot, especially in university context, right?

[00:10:38] Oh, well, he’s just, that was a bad hookup. And then oftentimes those things don’t get recognized. And then a couple of years down the line, you’re realizing you’re not functioning in the way you used to and then these things come up. And so one of the other things we often hear is, well, how come it takes so long for people to come forward?

[00:10:55] Sometimes it’s fear, but other times it’s that we get messages that these [00:11:00] things that happen to us, if it wasn’t a certain type of way, maybe doesn’t count. And so that’s also one of the goals of Our Wave is to really educate the spectrum of, of sexual harm and recognizing trauma is not about just the event you experience.

[00:11:13] It’s how you experience it and how it affects you afterwards. So there’s many layers to this, that the same event can happen to two people and they could be impacted incredibly differently. 

[00:11:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s good information. And what you’re doing again, I just think is fantastic. The information that you’re providing to people that can really help them process this.

[00:11:37] And so I want to talk a little bit more about the storytelling and how you guys have found that that has really been beneficial for the survivors. 

[00:11:47] Dr Laura Sinko: Yeah, so it’s interesting because when I met Kyle and Brendan I recognize I do research in sexual violence and on healing. And I was getting a little bit of pushback when I first started that who’s going to want to tell you about [00:12:00] this.

[00:12:00] This is so sensitive. And I really was surprised at the amount of people who would engage in my research studies, my interviews, because It’s an anonymous space where they can tell their story and walk away and no one’s telling them what to do how to act, and they can give back and have others learn from their experiences.

[00:12:18] So with Our Wave. There’s a very intentional aspect of it where we tell survivors with their permission and they can opt in or opt out that we can use their story, not only to support them and their process and help them find others like them, but we can actually use this as a data point to try to understand larger patterns, larger trends, to ultimately help other survivors and advocate for different supports for prevention.

[00:12:44] And so I think there’s a lot of elements to storytelling that can be helpful to survivors. But the one that really surprised me in the beginning was just how willing people are to give back. So that this doesn’t happen to other people. And also to find others like us, you know, when [00:13:00] we’re survivors, we often feel so alone, like we’re the only one that experienced this.

[00:13:04] When we know that one in four women, one in 16 men and one in two non binary people experienced this. So being able to bring people together in that story sharing process, I think is also really beneficial because then you recognize that you shouldn’t feel ashamed, even though your body maybe is telling you so, because there are so many others that experience these things and you’re not alone.

[00:13:27] Desiree Stanley: And thank you for pointing out also that this is happening, you know, again, unfortunately across the board, we’re not just talking about women. We’re talking about men. We’re talking about non binary individuals as well. And so this is happening and that anyone and everyone can get support and like you said, share their story to maybe help others to not feel so alone in, in what has happened.

[00:13:55] And so that’s, I think, fantastic. Again, I just can’t say [00:14:00] enough of what a wonderful thing that you are doing with the organization and helping people. I think it’s just fantastic. So let’s talk a little bit about how society kind of makes it difficult for survivors to heal from these experiences, because that really happens.

[00:14:21] Dr Laura Sinko: It really happens. And it’s such a good question because. You know, people don’t heal in a vacuum. So what’s really challenging is oftentimes you experience something and then you’re trying to heal in the same environment. And so all of these things that maybe caused you harm or contributed to additional harm are still around you.

[00:14:43] And so that can make it really, really difficult when we’re trying to understand healing and trying to heal on our own. And so a lot of my research is looks at that social context and what are these contributing factors and we know like your upbringing the messages that you hear they get internalized and so we [00:15:00] often and they’re often well intentioned, right?

[00:15:01] I think our initial prevention strategies, particularly geared towards women was go, you know, walk home in groups, make sure that you FaceTime your date before you meet them, meet them in a public place like there’s all these things that put the onus on it women to protect ourselves. And there’s been less emphasis on how can men, particularly men, because we know men do perpetrate most of these harms, although they also experienced these harms thinking about consent and combating toxic masculinity and all of these things that maybe would make survivors not feel as guilty when they experience these things because they maybe wouldn’t think it was their fault.

[00:15:38] Thank you. Responsibility to be, you know, combating all of this their whole life. But I also think The way our policies are the messaging we get from the media and how news stories are covered about these things, the social media discourse around these things. I don’t think people often recognize that the survivors in their life are watching.

[00:15:58] And so I’ve heard from so many survivors [00:16:00] whose friends didn’t recognize that they were a survivor, talking about different court cases and things hot topics in the media with kind of a non sensitive tone, and then they really recognize who is safe to them and who’s not. And so there’s so much about like our society and our policies and our larger culture, but there’s also something about that interpersonal messaging that I think we do very much have control over.

[00:16:23] And so People, just like you can harm someone, you can also really help them heal. So there really is a power in that that just by trying to understand this issue, trying to be trauma informed, and trying to be an open space for people to come to if they need help that can make all the difference in someone’s healing.

[00:16:42] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. And you mentioned talking about the policies, and I believe that your organization, Our Wave, really works also to help in that, that manner and in developing policies to help survivors. And so can you share [00:17:00] some more of that with us? 

[00:17:02] Dr Laura Sinko: Yeah, and there’s so much policy work that needs to be done, but I think that that is something that we’re really excited about.

[00:17:08] Can we, with the help of survivors who are generously sharing their stories, can we try to find patterns, try to figure out survivor preferences, try to really understand through the voices of people who’ve experienced these things, how can we improve policy and what policies are outdated or maybe are not aligned with survivors wishes?

[00:17:28] Like for example, I used to live in Michigan and there is this Michigan gun and knife law, which essentially is if somebody shows up to the emergency department with a violent injury, the police have to be called. It’s the way it works. They can send them away, but the police have to be on site. Well, that makes sense, right?

[00:17:44] Initially, we didn’t want these violent crimes to be brushed under the rug. We wanted some sort of a justice. But as we’ve sort of moved forward, we recognize that justice for survivors looks different depending on who they are, their experience. And so it might [00:18:00] not be the best for their healing to have the first person they talk to be a police officer, particularly if they’re a person of color or just have negative experiences with police.

[00:18:09] Just as an example. Another example is Title IX, and how a lot of these new policies in the college space have really shifted to move towards like live almost hearings and the Title IX process with cross examination and having to look you’re the person who harmed you in the face and have them tell you what happened to you wasn’t legitimate can really set you back in your healing. So again, these are policies that were created with the initial purpose to protect survivors. But now that we’re learning more and the research is showing that these really aren’t resonating, how can we work to change those and realign them with survivors needs and desires?

[00:18:45] So that’s like a future goal of Our Wave. We sort of know which policies we want to work on, but it’s really just building all that research and evidence to be able to advocate on survivors behalf. 

[00:18:55] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s excellent. Thank you for sharing those. Dr. Laura, I [00:19:00] appreciate that. And then I did want to ask you in terms of the research that you’re doing, how long have you been working on this particular area?

[00:19:09] I know you mentioned, you know, initially the studying and the research and stuff that you’re doing, but how long have you been working on this? 

[00:19:17] Dr Laura Sinko: It’s been about seven years now. 

[00:19:20] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And so do you find that you initially started in a different direction or how did this kind of come to be? Was it after you met the two co founders of the organization or what, what kind of drove you in this direction?

[00:19:37] Dr Laura Sinko: So I was a mental health nurse and I recognize that we just really weren’t treating folks who’ve experienced trauma. with like the holistic care that I really felt like they deserved. We often thought, okay, their depression is going down, so they’re healed. And it’s like, wait, there’s so much more to healing than depression, even though that is really important.

[00:19:55] There’s so much more, right? There’s finding purpose. There’s rebuilding intimacy. There’s [00:20:00] reconnecting with yourself. And who am I after this, right? So I wanted to understand more in research. How can we support survivor healing in a holistic way? So I got my PhD with that intention, got graduated with my PhD, and then I moved to Philadelphia and then met Kyle and Brendan at a conference.

[00:20:17] So I had just started in the, actually the campus sexual violence space is where I initially started. And then I realized as much as I really loved working in that space, and I still do. There are so many other survivors that get less attention. You know, people who are college aged but aren’t in college.

[00:20:32] Or in the service industry. Or doing other things, right? So now my research has really moved more towards folks who are experiencing intersectional oppression and marginalization because so little research has focused on different groups and therefore our services really only align with a certain type of survivor.

[00:20:51] So unfortunately, survivors that often just look like me, a white. cisgender woman, right? And while that’s really important and we could still [00:21:00] do more improvement in that space, often other survivors have gotten left behind. So that’s where my research has moved to. But there is just, unfortunately, I don’t think I’ll ever be out of a job because there is so much more to learn about healing because we so often focus on deficit.

[00:21:14] And that’s a real disservice to the growth and the hope that healing is truly possible if we can align supports to really guide survivors on that journey. 

[00:21:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, yeah, that’s good. Thank you for sharing and detailing that a little bit more. So Dr. Laura, tell us how Our Wave that in the platform, and we’ll talk about the website and you can share the details of that later, but how is that? Helping to facilitate the healing process for survivors and we’ve talked about the storytelling and we’ve talked about the questions that can be submitted anonymously.

[00:21:51] What else is the organization doing to help survivors? 

[00:21:55] Dr Laura Sinko: I think what makes our organization unique is we’re a story sharing [00:22:00] platform with an emphasis on healing. So when survivors submit their story, they share their story. We then have them, if they want, it’s optional, explain what healing means to them.

[00:22:10] And oftentimes, at least I’ve recognized in my work, people aren’t often asked that question. So we have them reflect. Given your story, what does healing look like for you and then at the end, we have them share a message of hope with another survivor and this is again optional. So how that helps in healing is you’re processing your experience through your story.

[00:22:30] You’re now reflecting on, okay, what might healing look like for me? And then you’re able to give back and extend and say, you know, what advice would I give another survivor? What message of hope, anything to somebody else? So that I think is really helpful in opening that container, but then also closing it so that people can leave the site, not feeling so raw they’re leaving thinking about healing.

[00:22:53] We also have this space where it’s a kind of like a social media platform where you could like [00:23:00] other stories, you can say this has given me hope, but we don’t have individual likes or comments like typical social media. We have a global impact score on the top. So every time you like a story or interact with it, it goes to our global metrics of this is how the site in general and all of your stories are impacting each other.

[00:23:17] So you can read other people’s stories and recognize, Oh, what happened to me actually isn’t so uncommon. Like there are other people like me out there. You can filter by different tags, like the person who harmed you. Was it a parent or a friend or an intimate partner? Or like by your race or by your gender so you can find if you are a black gender nonconforming survivor you can hit those filters and see other folks with shared identities and recognize some of the challenges that you face maybe also are being faced by other people.

[00:23:49] We have those answering questions. We also have survivor art exhibits, where we share about healing, what that looks like survivors can interact with those and learn more. And ultimately [00:24:00] we’re working towards applying for funding. And this is the dream to build an online healing curriculum because we know so many survivors aren’t going to in person services like they used to.

[00:24:10] So we really believe that survivors deserve technological tools that are as advanced as their social platforms, their work platforms to explore their own healing. So We want to make it beautiful. We want to make it user friendly, not a laundry list of resources, you know, pages and pages. And then we’re hoping, because Brendan and Kyle are really in the tech space.

[00:24:32] We want to try to make the technology smarter so that as you’re engaging with this healing curriculum, we can learn about your preferences and then give you resources that may be more supportive for you than others. Instead of saying, here’s the list of 50, well, given what you shared, here’s three that we think might be most important.

[00:24:49] And if you, these don’t work, then here’s the list of 50 that you can look at. So we’re just trying to really raise the bar for what survivors can have and what they deserve in terms of these [00:25:00] technological supports. 

[00:25:01] Desiree Stanley: That’s excellent. Thank you for, for sharing that in more detail. And I think that you’re absolutely right.

[00:25:07] Sometimes it’s really overwhelming too, when you see this huge list of, you know, like you said, 50 resources. I mean, it’s fantastic that you’ve got that many options, but it’s like, where do I start? I don’t even know where to start on this list. And so as you described, you know, filtering it a little bit to maybe what meets your needs a little bit more.

[00:25:28] Is super helpful. I think for people to be like, all right, I can deal with three. I can get the help I need starting here. 

[00:25:37] Dr Laura Sinko: Absolutely. And so often it’s just getting your foot in the door and recognizing that people receive you kindly. And then it’s like that can kickstart the whole journey because we know healing is actually such an active process, even though it’s not fair and you don’t deserve it.

[00:25:55] It still is work that you have to put in when you’re ready. Yeah. And, 

[00:25:59] Desiree Stanley: [00:26:00] and you mentioned earlier about how healing and recovery is absolutely multilayered because we are multilayered individuals and our brains are tremendous and, you know, function in such a way we don’t even fully understand.

[00:26:16] Right. And so of course the healing process is going to be multilayered. A little bit more complicated than just, you know, check these boxes and you’re good. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, let’s talk a little bit about how people who are listening can learn more about Our Wave and, you know, check out the site and, and support Our Wave and what you’re doing.

[00:26:39] Dr Laura Sinko: Yeah. So our website is Our Wave.org. If you go to that website, that’s basically our central hub where you could share your story, read the stories of others, ask questions, look at our exhibits, share artwork, if you have artwork or other forms of self expression that describe what healing means to you.

[00:26:58] All of that can be found on that [00:27:00] website. We’re also on socials. Our most active is Instagram. We’re at Our Wave Stories. So we always post different social media content. We do often FAQ Fridays where we’ll share different FAQs and things people are asking. We also have quite an active blog.

[00:27:17] And so when we post a blog, we’ll post it on there. And then you can find us at Our Wave on all the other socials as well. But I will say Instagram is our most active. So if that is a platform that works for you, that is a great way to connect with us. And we’re also always looking for volunteers, people who want to learn more about the space.

[00:27:33] We’re really collaborative and we love hearing what other folks are doing and seeing how our missions can align and we can work together to really end sexual violence, because that’s the ultimate goal. Yeah, 

[00:27:45] Desiree Stanley: it’s awesome. Thank you for sharing those with us. And, and I love that you said you’re also working with other organizations to see, you know, how can you collaborate and work together to help more people really?

[00:27:59] Because [00:28:00] that’s the ultimate goal is ending it, right? And then healing. And so that’s fantastic. I have so appreciated your time. Dr. Laura, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this information with us. And I know we have just barely touched the surface of this conversation, but I think that.

[00:28:22] Our Wave and what you’re doing there is just such a great thing. And I encourage the listeners to go check it out and see, you know, there’s something there that they can maybe even share with somebody who’s close to them that could use the information. I think that would be great. And to also support what you’re doing there.

[00:28:40] And I believe if I remember correctly, there is an option for a journal that you can order through the site. So do you want to tell us a little bit about that? 

[00:28:51] Dr Laura Sinko: Sure. We are a team of full volunteers, so none of us get paid. It’s truly a labor of love. And so we do have an online store where we have [00:29:00] bracelets, we have t shirts.

[00:29:01] We also just launched a new journal, as you mentioned, Desiree, that can help you explore those moments of healing in your life when you’re not on a screen. Because there is something about shutting your computer or shutting your phone and just being present. And so we wanted to create a journal that can help you Explore your healing on your own time.

[00:29:19] So we do also have that in our site and a hundred percent of the profits go to our organization to basically fund the technology that we use and then also help with future partnerships. So thank you for mentioning that. Yes. If anyone’s interested in that, please feel free to go to our shop. It is on the Our Wave website.

[00:29:37] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, excellent for sure. I mean, I really do encourage the listeners to check it out because there is, as you’ve told us so many great resources, helpful information there and, you know, if the listeners feel so moved to support what you’re doing, I, I encourage it as well. And I have myself because I think again, what you’re doing is so important.[00:30:00] 

[00:30:00] And thank you for doing the work that you’re, that you’re doing. So thank you again for taking the time to be on the show with us today. I do appreciate it Dr. Laura. Thank you. 

[00:30:11] Dr Laura Sinko: Thank you so much for having me. It was really a pleasure. 

[00:30:14] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. We’ll talk soon. 

[00:30:16] Dr Laura Sinko: Thank you. 

POK_Desiree Stanley Podcast_07_12_2023
[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host Desiree Stanley and today’s episode is a host takeover where I’m sharing my personal journey and delving into a topic, many of us can relate to. The experience of becoming an empty nester. So why did I decide to be my own guest again? 

[00:00:23] Because this topic is something that I am personally going through right now. And I began researching this topic. And how to work through the emotions and feelings and thoughts and all of the things. I figured that there had to be others that could benefit from what I’ve discovered. So that being said, 

[00:00:47] Let’s jump into it. As parents, we often find ourselves caught up in the whirlwind of raising our children from their very first steps. [00:01:00] All the way to their high school graduation and everything in between. Our lives have revolved around supporting their dreams and fostering their growth. But now as they embark on their own adventure, 

[00:01:17] And leave the nest. It’s time for us to face this new chapter. And it’s a chapter that is both exciting and intimidating. At least I have found it to be so. And so what happens now then that this time. Is here for them to spread their wings and venture out into the world. I just want to say, of course I am thrilled for my kiddos and the adventures that they will be partaking in. My older daughter is a year out of college now, and she’s living her life. 

[00:01:54] As a nearly completely independent human. And I say that in that way, [00:02:00] because we’ve been helping her as she is transitioned from student to worker. While, navigating the career that she has chosen. My younger daughter has just graduated high school. And will be going off to college and living in on-campus housing. We hope. 

[00:02:20] There are of course some details still that we have to work out, like actually getting the dorm assignment. But I’m incredibly excited about this time in her life. And both of their lives as they experience these new things and grow. And of course there’s this feeling of mixed emotions and it’s totally natural right. In this new chapter for them as well as for me. 

[00:02:49] But as, as the parents, we have, likely created this sort of blueprint. Of our lives and their [00:03:00] lives and envisioning this sequence of events. You know, from our own graduations to college, getting married and starting the family and. What then comes after the kids leave. That’s not something that I think we 

[00:03:20] forecast, right. That’s not something that we’re planning for when we’re thinking and envisioning through these things. And so now, This canvas of our lives suddenly feels uncertain and open it’s exhilarating, but it’s also daunting. And to navigate this transition, it seems essential to remember to celebrate the accomplishments of our children while shifting that focus back to ourselves 

[00:03:55] where we can make plans and provide [00:04:00] excitement and purpose and reminding us that this new found freedom is a gift. To us. 

[00:04:09] And so addressing that in trepidation and fear that often accompanies, this phase is really important and that’s what I’m doing. And part of why I wanted to record this episode. Because acknowledging that fear of the unknown and leaning into this uncertainty is imperative. At this time much like many others, throughout our life offers an opportunity for personal growth, for exploring 

[00:04:45] uncharted territories and creating new connections. So finding supportive friends that are going through this similar transition can be super helpful. As we share our hopes and fears and [00:05:00] experiences and find comfort in knowing that we’re not alone. I think it’s critical to recognize that this phase of life brings both positive and negative emotions. 

[00:05:13] Many times within the span of minutes or hours. And embracing those conflicting emotions and allowing ourselves to experience them fully is absolutely necessary. I think by acknowledging the negative, we can work through it and fully appreciate those positive aspects this new chapter. So here are some hopefully helpful ideas and tips 

[00:05:44] to navigate this transition that I found while doing this research for myself 

[00:05:53] to embrace this new chapter as an empty-nester. 

[00:05:58] First start with [00:06:00] acknowledging and embracing the grieving process. Because that’s what’s happening. Right? We are grieving this change of what our life has been up to now. And we need to allow ourselves to experience those ranges of emotions that come with it. It’s natural to feel the sense of loss and emptiness. When our kids leave the home. 

[00:06:35] And we have to give ourselves permission to grieve and understand that that’s part of the process of life. And of course, logically, we recognize that. But emotionally. Sometimes it’s hard to except, and you know, this of course it’s not to say that our children are going to be completely removed from our lives. 

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] There are of course going to still be a part of our lives, just in a different way. And so staying connected with our children during this transition is essential. Right. While they’re embarking on their journey. It’s important to maintain open lines of communication and foster a new relationship that’s supportive that can help 

[00:07:26] alleviate their feelings of separation and loneliness as well as our own. And finding a balance that’s respecting their new found independence. And expressing our ongoing love and interest in their lives. Is really important. 

[00:07:50] Each person’s experience is unique. Obviously, and this timeline for processing emotions varies [00:08:00] person to person. So we have to give ourselves permission to move through these emotions at our own pace. Allowing ourselves. The necessary time and space to heal and adjust. 

[00:08:18] Accepting the emotions acknowledging the emotions that arise. Without judgment or guilt. And recognizing that this process is. An indication of. Our deep love and connection that we’ve had with our children. Through their whole lives and it’s okay to mourn the changes in our family dynamics. 

[00:08:45] What else I found is that rediscovering the interests that we had that maybe had to be put on hold during the time of our children’s [00:09:00] youth and their interests that that took a 

[00:09:04] forefront in our time, rediscovering our passions and our hobbies that maybe we had to set aside during that time. And it could be, you know, that long lost hobby that you rediscover reconnect with, or it could be something that’s new, learning something new that you find through this process. But indulging in that 

[00:09:38] opportunity to learn something new is 

[00:09:43] important and focusing on the activities that once brought us joy, that can bring us joy now and bring us fulfillment, 

[00:09:57] that can help to [00:10:00] alleviate some of the 

[00:10:03] loneliness that we’re feeling at the moment. 

[00:10:08] I think embracing. Flexibility and also spontaneity. Of course it’s important to have a new routine, developing a new routine is beneficial. But there’s nothing wrong with embracing that flexibility that is now available. Having the spontaneity in the schedule, seizing opportunities for impromptu adventures, trying new things on a whim and remaining open to 

[00:10:41] unexpected experiences and adventures 

[00:10:47] is super beneficial and helpful in this change and process that we’re going through as well. 

[00:10:59] [00:11:00] Another thing is cultivating relationships. With more time on our hands, investing in new relationships, joining clubs, social groups that maybe align with our interests, engaging in those activities that are with like-minded individuals. I can help us forge new relationships. Of course, planning 

[00:11:25] outings and arranging meetups with our friends and family members 

[00:11:33] can be beneficial and nurturing those relationships and staying socially active can really combat the feelings of loneliness and help enhance our overall feelings of wellbeing. 

[00:11:54] Another thing is fostering our relationships with our partner.[00:12:00] 

[00:12:00] As empty nesters, it’s an opportune time to nurture our relationship and rekindle, the connection that we have with our partner. Planning regular date nights, setting aside that dedicated time for just the two of us, just the two of you. Whether it’s a romantic dinner at a new restaurant or just a cozy night at home. 

[00:12:29] Creating some new adventurous outing. Prioritizing the quality time together is imperative. Having those date nights offers an opportunity to reconnect and deepen our emotional intimacy and creates a new shared experience. 

[00:12:49] Exploring shared hobbies or activities. Things that you’ve maybe always wanted to pursue, but didn’t have the time previously. [00:13:00] It could be maybe taking dance lessons or traveling to a new destination, engaging in new outdoor adventures or learning something new together. 

[00:13:11] Embracing these novel experiences can really inject freshness and excitement into your relationship. Communicating openly with your partner is so important. Engaging in open and honest communication by sharing feelings and hopes and dreams for the future. Using this time to reassess goals as a couple. 

[00:13:43] Discussing what we both envision for this next phase of life. Supporting each other’s personal growth. By nurturing the individual, the [00:14:00] individuality, the 

[00:14:01] the hopes and dreams and desires that the other person has 

[00:14:08] is so truly important. 

[00:14:11] Creating that environment that fosters. Individual personal growth and fulfillment. Will enrich the partnership. As well, I think. 

[00:14:24] Remembering to focus on self care and wellbeing. By prioritizing physical and mental wellbeing. Making time for regular exercise eating a well-balanced diet. Practicing mindfulness and meditation. Ensuring that you’re getting enough sleep. Taking care of yourself. Well, It will provide the foundation 

[00:14:54] for embracing this change and enjoying the new phase of life. 

[00:14:58] And [00:15:00] investing in that lifelong learning 

[00:15:03] will keep the mind growing, keep the heart open. Enrolling in courses or workshops. 

[00:15:15] Online classes that align with your interests and help you acquire new skills. 

[00:15:22] It does keep the doors open to new experiences and new opportunities and continues to keep the mind engaged. 

[00:15:33] And that’s so, so important. 

[00:15:37] Embrace change and try new things. It’s important to honor your emotions. It’s equally important to remain open to the possibilities that lie ahead. To see this transition as an opportunity for personal growth and exploration. Stepping out of your comfort zone and trying new [00:16:00] experiences or hobbies. That you’ve always been curious about. 

[00:16:04] Embracing change and being open to new possibilities can be rewarding. And invigorating. 

[00:16:12] Giving back to the community. Consider volunteering. Or getting involved in community activities. By building connections and contributing to the wellbeing of others, we can bring a sense of purpose and fulfillment to ourselves. Whether it’s mentoring young adults or supporting a local charity. or engaging in community projects that 

[00:16:39] contributing to society or volunteering for organizations or causes that resonate with you can bring a renewed sense of meaning to your life. 

[00:16:50] With your children no longer at home it’s important to create that new routine. It’s an opportunity really to [00:17:00] establish a new daily pattern, a new habit that suits your needs and interests. Consider how you want to structure your days and allocate time. 

[00:17:13] Do the activities that bring you joy and fulfillment. Having that routine can provide a sense of stability and purpose in this new phase of life. We need to reflect on our priorities. And take time to reflect on what matters most to you, now that your children have left the nest. 

[00:17:39] Consider your personal goals, interests and aspirations. Identify activities that bring you joy and a sense of purpose and fulfillment. This self reflection will help guide. Uh, us in designing a routine that aligns [00:18:00] with our values and passions. 

[00:18:04] And along with that. Planning your morning. This is one of my 

[00:18:11] things that I do every day is starting my day with my miracle morning. My SAVERS that’s my silence, my affirmations, visualization, my exercise, my reading and my scribing. And that is something that I learned about from the Miracle Morning book by Hal Elrod and I can’t say enough good things about how fantastic that book is. 

[00:18:44] And so I always plan my day the night before, and I start my day with those important steps. By setting the intention [00:19:00] and setting the tone for a fulfilling day, that’s productive and that’s nurturing and really helps to launch my day. Right. So consider incorporating some of those activities that energize and inspire you like the exercise and meditation and journaling or just enjoying your cup of coffee in the quiet. By designing a specific morning routine, it can really provide a sense of accomplishment that you’re starting the day off right. 

[00:19:45] Set the goals and aspirations. That reflect your personal hopes and dreams and take that time to really think through [00:20:00] what is important to you and what you maybe want to achieve now. What are the things that you’ve always wanted to do, but haven’t had a chance. Uh, whether it’s traveling or pursuing further education. 

[00:20:14] Maybe starting a new business or any other dream that you may have. Set goals and create a plan to help work towards reaching them. Having those goals can give you direction and a sense of purpose as you embrace this new chapter. 

[00:20:31] Of course seek support and professional guidance if it’s needed. Transitioning into this new phase can be challenging. And it’s okay to seek help. If you’re finding it difficult to cope with the changes reaching out to friends and family or support groups who can provide guidance or just even an ear to [00:21:00] listen. 

[00:21:01] Or if needed, consider seeking professional counseling or therapy to help to navigate the emotional and mental health challenges that can arise during this transition. 

[00:21:15] Remember above all that this phase of life is an opportunity for self discovery, growth and fulfillment. Embrace the changes set your own path. Remember to be patient with yourself and don’t be afraid to seek support along the way. This is your time to explore and allow yourself to grow and evolve as you navigate this 

[00:21:46] exciting new phase of rediscovery and creating a fulfilling life. 

[00:21:54] Here’s something that I want to add. And that’s. To [00:22:00] those parents who are listening right now and are in the throws of it. This is advice that I was given by others. 

[00:22:12] Enjoy each and every minute of this time with your children. Yes. Even those difficult times, the stressful times. The why can’t I just get five minutes to myself times? It’s really only, now that I look back and realize just how quickly those days would go by and there’s an expression. The days are long, but the years are short. 

[00:22:45] And it makes total and complete sense to me now. When I sit back and I think. 

[00:22:52] How in the hell did 23 years just go by in what feels like a blink of an eye. [00:23:00] 

[00:23:01] How is my baby now, 18 years old, graduated high school and going off to college. Wasn’t she just my little pumpkin baby that had to be in the sun to get over the jaundice that she had at birth and wasn’t that just like minutes ago. 

[00:23:26] That’s what it feels like to me now looking back on these years that have flown by. So take the time now. Really to truly be in the moment with them in whatever phase they’re in. To soak in everything and honestly, Isn’t that true. Uh, of life in general. To take the time now. To truly be in the moment to soak in [00:24:00] everything. 

[00:24:01] Smelling the coffee, as soon as it’s done brewing. The first sip. Watching the sky change as the sun is rising. 

[00:24:12] Enjoying the little tiny baby footie pajamas or the teenager that’s testing your last nerve. These moments are your life. 

[00:24:29] Enjoy it. Make it. 

[00:24:32] A great day. Make it a great life. I hope this has been helpful to you. I know that these have been helpful for me. And I will for sure be implementing many of these in my new routine. Thank you for listening. 

POK_Carrie Miller_06_21_2023

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my guest, Carrie Miller. Welcome to the show. Carrie, how are you? 

[00:00:10] Carrie Miller: Hi. Thanks so much for having me. I’m doing really well, thank you. 

[00:00:13] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. I invited Carrie to come on the show to share her story of how she launched a business while still working a full-time job, and Carrie is actually the senior brand evangelist.

[00:00:28] Of the walmart.com tools at Helium 10, and that’s kind of a mouthful. So why don’t we get started with you sharing with us what exactly that means and what you do. 

[00:00:39] Carrie Miller: Yeah. Okay. So brand evangelist, basically I’m evangelizing the Helium 10 brand. So I go out and I. Show people how to use Helium 10 tools.

[00:00:48] So I, I’m mostly focused on Walmart, but I also will teach about Amazon as well. So anything Helium 10, I’m out there helping people to utilize the tools. They can really enhance their sales and just improve their [00:01:00] business overall. So that’s really my main things. So I’ll talk with affiliates or, you know, anyone has a YouTube channel or anyone who wants to hear from me.

[00:01:07] I speak in public too sometimes. So there’s a, a well-rounded amount of things I, I do to really talk about Helium 10 tools. 

[00:01:15] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. And we can talk a little bit more about, you know, what Helium 10 does specifically a little bit later. But I do wanna ask you, was it like you knew you wanted to get into the business world?

[00:01:26] Did you go to school for that? What drove you kind of in that direction? What were some of the decisions that led you in that route? 

[00:01:33] Carrie Miller: Okay, so it’s kind of a journey here. I started out, I went to college to be a teacher. I didn’t really know what I wanted to be, but I always really liked teaching people.

[00:01:42] So I went to school to be a teacher and I lasted five years, which is actually the average of most teachers, they last about five years. And then I started working at a skincare company for another five years. I was a kind of a corporate trainer, and I also did sales. I did really well with sales. I was their number one in sales.

[00:01:58] And I would go and travel around the [00:02:00] country and train people how to utilize the products. And that was fun for a time. Definitely, you know Was most of the time in a cubicle though. So I think my main thing was that I did not wanna be in a cubicle anymore and I felt like I was in prison.

[00:02:13] I mean that whole thing, I was a straight A student in all through school, through in college. I graduated with honors and I just thought to myself just sitting in a cubicle, I’m like, this isn’t what I wanted my life to kind of end up like. And I think a lot of people go through that whole kind of feeling of just what.

[00:02:31] What did I do all that work for? And so I ended up getting another job at Clear Channel for a few months and didn’t like it. And then there was another kind of in between job. I just was really having a hard time. So I remember I was kind of sitting on the couch and I just kind of had quit that other job and I was like, I didn’t have anything else lined up.

[00:02:51] But my dad was asked by our neighbor to see if he could help him to kind of revitalize this company that his son started that kind of, [00:03:00] his son ran it into the ground. And my dad has a, really good business background. He had a credit card processing company and a t m companies back in the day.

[00:03:09] And it did really well. So anyway, he was like, okay, well I’m up for the challenge. I was kind of helping out, just looking at stuff. I helped move the inventory. We had, you know, half of a van full of inventory. We just, I still have the picture. It’s just like us moving this very small amount of inventory with like tons of missing inventory and just starting, like digging this company out of a hole.

[00:03:28] It was really kind of a like long shot to really make it revitalized. And so one of the things was they were selling on Amazon and they were only selling about $200 a month. And I was like, I was in sales. I can make more than money than that on Amazon. So I started learning. I just went online on YouTube and there really weren’t that many gurus.

[00:03:48] I think it was like 2015, 20 16 timeframe. And there weren’t many gurus out there with, you know, courses or anything like that. So I kind of pieced together. You know, bits and pieces through YouTube and started [00:04:00] learning how to create listings, how to optimize listings, and so then I started optimizing the listings for the business.

[00:04:06] We started increasing in sales, did really well. I started just basically, Selling my services on free up. And I didn’t really know fully what I was doing, but I had done a lot of studying on YouTube and figuring stuff out, doing our own stuff so I was like, I can help other people. For two years I actually was a freelancer doing optimizing listings for other companies.

[00:04:26] There were companies that were, multimillion dollar companies and then others that were just smaller sellers. Some were selling, you know, a few thousand a month. Some were selling millions a month. Really just was a wide range of people. So I was doing listing optimization mostly. And then I got hired at our competitor, which is called Jungle Scout.

[00:04:44] And I worked there for two years and then worked. Now I work at Helium 10. So that’s kind of my journey. But throughout all that, we grew that brand. We tug it out of the. The dumps and it’s now a seven figure business and it’s growing. We [00:05:00] actually expanded out to a completely different category.

[00:05:02] That’s our main category now. Once we started learning how to sell on Amazon and we, we found some really good opportunity products. And so our hero products aren’t what we started with, but that those products that we had before got us started. And so when I look back, I really just get excited because I remember feeling so imprisoned in the cubicle and I always thought one of my main goals is like, I’m gonna work from home because no one’s gonna be monitoring how many times I go to the bathroom or if I need to walk or whatever it is, because, you know, people just need to have space to breathe.

[00:05:33] And now I literally, it’s funny cuz I actually don’t even get up from my desk anymore sitting, working from home. But I. I had that goal and I never knew how I was gonna do it and I was gonna work for myself, but it ended up just working itself out and it was something that was always on my mind, and I was always looking for stuff.

[00:05:49] So there were a lot of things along the way that I was like, okay, I’m gonna try this or try that. I tried real estate, I tried a few other things. It just didn’t work out part-time. And so I think just having the focus on, you know, [00:06:00] looking for opportunities is what really helped me because I think if you’re not looking for them, maybe you miss them.

[00:06:05] This is kind of a long-winded story of how it happened, but I really think that you know, it was just kind of a journey of me really figuring out that I didn’t wanna work for someone else. Even though I do work, you know, technically for someone else, I really am pretty independent and get to come up with my own content a lot of the time.

[00:06:20] So it’s really, pretty free in that area. So I hope that was kind of a long-winded answer, but that’s kind of my journey up until now and I still work the business with my dad. That’s where I’m at. 

[00:06:30] Desiree Stanley: That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. You know, I think there’s so much that you said in there that we could just dive into.

[00:06:38] A couple of the things I wanna talk about and have you share a little bit more is, How you did the research on YouTube and how you can find so much on YouTube? 

[00:06:50] Carrie Miller: Yes, 

[00:06:50] Desiree Stanley: because I think that we just forget that there’s so much there that you can learn and skills that you can develop like you did [00:07:00] just by searching 

[00:07:01] what you can learn on YouTube. So tell us a little bit about that and then also how you started finding products that you began, you know, selling with this business that you were trying to revitalize. Because I think that’s something that really more and more, there’s a lot of individual sellers starting to build up businesses on Amazon and so.

[00:07:21] Share with us how that kind of played out. 

[00:07:24] Carrie Miller: Yeah. YouTube was just the best place when I started Googling with resources on how to sell on Amazon. There really wasn’t much out there. And I call it my YouTube university because you know, nothing that I learned. I went to Pepperdine.

[00:07:36] I don’t know if you’re familiar, but it’s very ex. Expensive school and nothing I learned at Pepperdine has helped me with what I’m doing today. And so I always tell people, I’m like, you really don’t need to go to college. You can literally learn anything on the internet and you can learn it for free on YouTube.

[00:07:51] So there’s a lot of people selling all kinds of courses and stuff like that. But you literally, if you don’t have the money for a $5,000 course, you can figure all this great [00:08:00] information out on on YouTube. I just love the fact that there is so much at our fingertips that we can learn and we can, even now, there’s just more, there’s more stuff all the time coming out.

[00:08:09] We’ve got AI coming out. There’s all kinds of great opportunities to make money online that never were there really before. So keeping your eyes open and searching, you know, and keep just keeping up to date. I even think TikTok is a great way to learn about new things new ways to learn money because their algorithm is so good.

[00:08:29] If you’re starting to search for certain, you know, online jobs or work from home or whatever it is, they’ll start sending you and feeding you videos that are similar and then you’ll get even more and more content on what kinds of things are work from home. Searching for jobs online or work from home, or you know, something to do with ai, what’s cool about TikTok is their algorithm is so good, they’ll start feeding you more. Videos that are similar like that, or you know, something that might be a little bit different, but kind of similar that you didn’t know about before.

[00:08:55] So TikTok is a great place, in my opinion, to kind of start your research and then you can take [00:09:00] it off and get more in depth on YouTube in places like that. So TikTok is such a great resource or just finding new niches. And if you’re looking and you really wanna find something, to start your own business, you can definitely find something that will be a good fit for you if you just keep on, you know, looking for it.

[00:09:18] And in regards to finding a product to sell on Amazon, really, it’s funny because we kind of just came across this particular product. It really has nothing to do with the products we were selling before and we just decided to sell it. And I think another way to find great products is just through Etsy.

[00:09:33] A lot of sellers actually find things that start trending on Etsy and then they start selling ’em on Amazon, and they do really well that way. So there’s, there’s a bunch of different ways and there are, data points you can look at on Helium 10. We actually didn’t do that to start off with, but as we’re

[00:09:48] expanding our brand we do use Helium 10. There’s a tool called Black Box and we also have a Chrome extension that really helps give you sales numbers and just really good information on whether or not you should jump into a, a [00:10:00] specific product or not. So that’s how we did. 

[00:10:03] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. And I know, that searching for products, it can jump into like a whole segment all on its own, really. I mean, you were talking about courses before. There’s, there’s so many courses on how to find products, sourcing products, all of that. So that’s a little bit more in depth than we’re gonna get into in our conversation. But I love that you mentioned Etsy and how you can search for, Things that are trending there that can launch, an idea that you can see if it’s possible, will it sell on Amazon and, you know, go that route.

[00:10:35] So that’s an awesome suggestion. Thank you for sharing that. And so now you’re still operating that business with your father? Mm-hmm. Correct. Yes. Okay. And so that leads me to a question about what’s it like working with family and you know, how are there some challenges? Was there a little bit of like, I know more than you know, or did you guys work pretty well together?[00:11:00] 

[00:11:00] I 

[00:11:00] Carrie Miller: think I’m really blessed because my dad and I work really, really well together. He is kind of an engineering type mindset and I’m more the creative and so all of his strengths, you know, just really compliment mine. And something else that’s really great about my dad is I have you know, an idea or something.

[00:11:17] He’s never like, oh, that’s dumb. He’ll be like, oh, let’s try it out. Or, maybe he, he’s kind of the numbers guy too. He’s like, well, we can try that out, but we need to, you know, wait until we have more capital for whatever it is. And so that’s really a huge blessing. I know there’s a lot of people I’ve talked to that can’t work with their family, and I think it has to do with, the level of respect you have for each other, and then also just like your, your different strengths.

[00:11:39] I think that’s just the best thing about working with my dad is he’s not worried about, you know showing off our goal is to do well in this business. And so I think that’s really helpful for, just working together. I feel kind of like, oh, bad sometimes I’m like, yeah, it actually works out really, really well. People are always asking that, cuz I remember my friend, she was like, oh my gosh, if I worked with my mom or dad, I would just lose [00:12:00] my mind. But for me it just, it works out really well. My dad has a lot of experience with business and so I really respect him in that.

[00:12:07] And he also always is up for listening to me. And I think that’s the key. Cause I know especially for him, like, he’s the most experienced between the two of us. And so he could be like, oh no, I know better than you. But he is never like that. And so I think he was like that also with his company before.

[00:12:23] And he had, he had employees come back to him saying he was the best, boss that they ever worked for. And I think that’s why it’s like we always have clear expectations and then also just, he’s always respectful of new ideas. And so, yeah, I think that’s, Kinda a huge blessing for me.

[00:12:39] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s amazing. And you’re absolutely right that, that respect and the openness to see that I maybe have strengths in an area that you don’t and vice versa. Yeah. And, you know, how can we work together to really make it go far and that does make the world of difference, I think versus, no, everything that I [00:13:00] say is what we’re gonna do.

[00:13:00] I mean, that’s obviously not gonna take you very far. 

[00:13:03] Carrie Miller: Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:13:04] Desiree Stanley: but that’s so great that your dad’s previous employees were telling him how great he is cuz he sounds like he would’ve been a fantastic boss to work for. 

[00:13:11] Carrie Miller: Yeah, I think so. 

[00:13:13] Desiree Stanley: So were there some challenges or any setbacks that you guys experienced in like, maybe how did you overcome those?

[00:13:20] Carrie Miller: Yeah, there’s been a lot of setbacks. I mean, when we started there were a lot of debts that Basically people weren’t paid. Vendors weren’t paid. So we had to come up with money to pay. And my dad and mark is our other business partner, he’s kind of silent cuz he’s just kind of the one who started it.

[00:13:34] And so he’s kind of there still. But they, you know how. Figure out how to come up with a capital that was needed. There was a huge order that was coming over from China that they spent the money and didn’t put the order in. And so or it was supposed to be coming over. So basically we had to come up with the money to get that order and pay for it and, and get that squared away and got that taken care of.

[00:13:55] I think other, Things that have come along the way are just like [00:14:00] that are frustrating for me. It’s just, you know, listings get taken down sometimes with Amazon, you know, they’ll flag for whatever reason or something and there’s a glitch in their system. And so dealing with those issues, that’s where the frustration can come in because you’re listing goes down for a day or two and there’s a lot of sales that are involved in that.

[00:14:15] But then just trying to get it back up with the flat files is very frustrating. So I think that’s when it’s all tested, cuz it’s more me, I’m getting so frustrated. Like I start sweating when I have to like re-upload. Of these files cuz you can really mess up your whole listing. So that’s, I think those are the challenges, is fixing issues when they come.

[00:14:31] We also had someone hack into our Amazon account and they stole our entire payout and so it was thousands of dollars and it was really painful. It was the first payout actually, of the year, which was better because it’s usually, at the beginning of the year, people have already purchased that first two weeks.

[00:14:50] You know, before that they purchased for Christmas and things like that. So that was kind of lucky for us. But still it was a huge, a huge chunk of money. There’ve been a lot of just those [00:15:00] kinds of learning experiences. We had an entire shipment from China that was it was printed, but it was like a wooden product and it had printing on it.

[00:15:10] And all of it got smeared. So we had a thousand of these going to, a wholesale person who purchased from us and we literally had to sand them down. And it was mostly my dad out there, like sanding them down and then reprinting them all. So it was kind of a nightmare. There’s things like that.

[00:15:26] You know, there’s always a challenge of just cashflow. You wanna get more products going and you gotta manage. And he usually does all that. That stresses me out, makes me sweat, dealing with the balance sheets and stuff like that. So he does a really good job with that. But yeah, there’s a lot of things, I know it, it seems really glamorous, but there’s, there’s constantly something that happens.

[00:15:45] Even just today, we got shot out of our Amazon account for like five minutes. We were panicking like, oh my gosh, what happened? And we got, we got it back up. But there’s just a lot. That can go wrong. And so you just have to kind of be able to roll with punches. And I know a [00:16:00] lot of people, it’s funny cuz I am a brand evangelist and I’m in a lot of coaching groups and people want like a step-by-step manual, but part of being an entrepreneur is that there isn’t a manual and you have to kind of figure stuff out.

[00:16:10] Like another thing is products came through and they first quoted us they were gonna be a certain tax category, and then they ended up being way more so we had to pay way more for these things. They were being held for much longer. There’s all these things you, you just have to kind of figure it out as you go, and there’s no one who’s gonna be like the teacher telling you what the answer is because you have to figure it out. And so, I think that’s what kind of separates people who are successful with people who are not successful is that you just have to figure it out and there’s no other option.

[00:16:39] And sometimes it kind of weeds people out too cuz they’re like, well this is too much for me. And it is stressful, it really is, but there’s always a solution and I really appreciate that my dad has that engineering mindset because they used to apparently, have days on one, one problem solving thing that they would do in college.

[00:16:54] And so that problem solving skill is really, really helpful. But yeah, there’s been a [00:17:00] lot of challenges along the way and yeah, you just have to keep going. So those are a few examples. Hopefully that gives a clearer picture of it. 

[00:17:08] Desiree Stanley: You know, and you said it a couple of times, you just have to keep going.

[00:17:12] It’s that perseverance despite the challenges that is what makes you successful, right? Yeah. I, if you run into those challenges and you just say, that’s it, that I quit, obviously you’re not gonna have success that way. So it’s that perseverance of, yeah. These things are gonna come up and you have to figure out how to work around it or work through it or whatever.

[00:17:33] And by that perseverance, you’ll be successful. So thank you for sharing that. And you’re right, being an entrepreneur, running your own business, there is no manual because there are so many variables that come into play and things that happen that you’re not expecting nobody else has encountered before, and now you gotta solve it.

[00:17:53] Yeah. But that’s also exciting, right? And it’s something that is never the same. It’s [00:18:00] never boring. Yeah, that’s true. And if, and that’s great if that’s the kind of career you want, right? If you wanna have a career that’s Challenging and you’re never bored and you’re doing something different every day than being your own boss.

[00:18:11] Owning your own business is that’s for you then, right? So let’s transition a little bit and talk about working at Helium 10. And you shared with us a little bit about how you go out and you share the tools that Helium 10 has that they offer. And since we are talking about Amazon, helium 10 is such a great resource of tools to help Amazon sellers.

[00:18:37] So tell us a little bit more about it. 

[00:18:39] Carrie Miller: Yeah, so Helium 10 has a full suite of tools that’ll help you from A to Z just selling on Amazon. And what’s really cool is we also if you do wanna learn how to sell on Amazon, if you buy a subscription, then there’s a free course that’s better than any paid course.

[00:18:53] And I have paid for some courses over the years that, We’re not as good as this course. So it’s led by Kevin King, who’s kind of the [00:19:00] guru in the industry and a bunch of other industry leaders who are also a part of this course. And it is very, very in detail and it is extremely helpful to get started and learn how to sell on Amazon.

[00:19:12] I wish something like that had been around when I started. It would’ve been really helpful, but it is. Absolutely incredible. But then there’s also, for each of our tools, we have a bunch of webinars all the time, but there’s also learning videos on every tool I, I do some of the videos, mostly of videos for Walmart, but Bradley, he was my manager.

[00:19:28] He does a lot of the Amazon learning videos and you can learn how to do any of it on Helium 10 tools and learn how to optimize your listings, learn how to create them, learn how to find a product, learn how to manage your pay-per-click ads using our tools. There’s a ton of things that you can do using Helium 10, and it’s definitely something that helps you take, take your business to the next level.

[00:19:49] Without it, I don’t know that I would be as successful because I’ve got the keyword research. I’ve been using Helium 10 since before I even worked at Helium 10. It was one of the things I used when I was [00:20:00] optimizing listings and people would be like, what’s your secret? And I was like, I’m not gonna tell, but it was literally Helium 10.

[00:20:05] I used the keyword research tools and the listing optimizer. So yeah, I mean, helium 10 is just a full suite of tools that is gonna help boost your business and it’ll get you there faster too. If you want to kind of fast track this is, these are the tools that are gonna help you. 

[00:20:21] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s awesome.

[00:20:22] Thank you for sharing that. And, and I do actually also use Helium 10, so

[00:20:28] Carrie Miller: Oh, nice. 

[00:20:28] Desiree Stanley: I can concur that that, that the tools are excellent. So yeah, I highly recommend them as well. Yeah. Well, Carrie, it’s been a delight having you on, and I thank you so much for coming on and sharing this with us. I do wanna ask you though, is there Would you say, like anything in particular that you think that the listeners should really know about kind of going this direction if they decide they wanna pursue a Amazon business?

[00:20:58] Carrie Miller: Mm-hmm. [00:21:00] Basically, I think what I was thinking before is I, I remember some stories that I’ve heard of people who had their first, second, and third product fail. Mm-hmm. And they just kept going. And now they’re like, 8, 9, 10 figure sellers. There is, you know, some learning to it.

[00:21:13] And so I think a lot of people, there’s a lot of these short videos and everyone’s really just has a short attention span now. But if you can, continue to persevere and, and really follow the guidelines, especially in that course that Helium 10 provides, you can follow the guidelines of, you know, how to find a product, how to look at the numbers.

[00:21:28] And all the things that you need to really find good product and launch it on Amazon, you can definitely be successful. It’s not gonna be easy. It’s not something that you just set it and forget it. And I think a lot of people think that it’s a set and forget it, but this is actually a business that you can create a brand, you can create something that’s, you know, no one else has.

[00:21:45] And that’s pretty exciting. So there’s so much work that goes into it, but you know, you work hard for other people too. So the cool thing about having your own Amazon business is you get to actually earn more money. You get to reap the benefits of what you’re [00:22:00] doing and you get to kind of carry it through and see this amazing thing get created.

[00:22:04] If that’s something that’s, Really, gets you excited is like, creating a brand and creating products that people can use and selling them. And despite all the, you know, difficulties cuz you’re gonna have difficulties even in a job. Like, they always say, choose your hard, you know, you’ll have a hard time sometimes in a, at a job, but it’ll be challenging when you’re your own boss too. But it’s definitely worth it. It’s really fun. There’s a good balance of fun and challenge, I think is, is what I like to say. But it’s definitely a great opportunity.

[00:22:30] There’s still a ton of opportunity out there. I know people who continually are launching products. I always think I wonder if it’s so saturated like everyone else, but there’s always something out there and people are always finding new things or coming up with new great products.

[00:22:43] Like Sarah Blakely, who I follow, who created Spanx, she had this, you know, Notepad that she always wrote down all of her ideas. And I would encourage everyone to do that. I do that. And maybe you won’t use all those ideas, but it gets your juices flowing.

[00:22:55] It’s a great business though. Don’t give up. I think if you think it’s hard it’s not [00:23:00] supposed to be easy. If it was easy, everybody would do it. But you can do it. If I can do it, you can do it. So 

[00:23:05] Desiree Stanley: that’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. And you mentioned the balance and so I wanna talk a little bit about how you balance working full-time and running the business and I know that you’ve said you have some flexibility.

[00:23:19] Yeah. So I’m sure that that helps. But is there anything else that you’re doing that that helps you keep those things in balance so that you can give your attention to 

[00:23:27] both? 

[00:23:28] Carrie Miller: Yeah, I think it’s it is a big challenge. The cool thing about working at Helium 10 is that I get to learn more all the time.

[00:23:35] I am just constantly near people who are really, I was just at Billion Dollar Seller Summit and I was introduced to that, you know, by working at Helium 10 and just get to learn from just some incredible sellers. I would say the balance is really difficult because I think there’s some burnout that comes with, you know, working constantly.

[00:23:52] You really have to, you know, kind of schedule out your time, even though I don’t do this the best, but schedule out your time. You’ve got an eight hour job, you’re gonna work your [00:24:00] eight hours at your job, but then what are the hours that you can for sure focus on your business.

[00:24:05] And I, I usually try to do that mostly during Monday through Friday, and then that way I have Saturday and Sunday to kind of rest a little bit more. And some people don’t always take both days and, and there’s still work that can be done on the weekends too. But, you know, taking at least one day of rest is, I think really important.

[00:24:21] I don’t think hustle culture is really healthy for anyone. But really just working your hardest when you have that time, like set a timer and then say, I’m gonna get this, this, and this done maybe a 45 minute timer and, and those 45 minute increments whenever you can. I think that makes a huge difference.

[00:24:36] Instead of, you know, just kind of like sitting at your computer, like kind of doing things for a few hours. You know, I think just having that focus of when you’re gonna do things and, and allotting that time and actually following through with that time and then really, really making sure that you take the day of rest.

[00:24:51] Another thing that I think is important, which I haven’t been focusing on, but is something I’m gonna be working on, is just making sure to exercise. Because if you’re not [00:25:00] healthy and you’re just sitting all day, you’re gonna start to feel the effects of it.

[00:25:02] And I’ve seen the effects of it on myself, so getting up and even just like walking around and having those breaks, but. Planning your day out the night before I think is a big, a big deal and that’s a huge benefit. Or will give you huge benefits if you literally, if you say, I’m gonna work these hours on this and these hours on, you know, X and I’m gonna take a walk at this time, I’m gonna exercise at this time, I’m gonna eat at this time.

[00:25:27] You still have to kind of leave room for your life too. So I think that’s what I really forgot about for a while and it was just like hustle, hustle, hustle. They say stress can kill you and it really can. Mm-hmm. There’s a lot of things that will make you sick from stress.

[00:25:42] So taking the day of rest, I think is essential, but also, you know, just planning out your time wisely and turning off your phone, like that’s a huge distraction. I’d say we probably waste a lot less time if we didn’t have our phone. So there are these little boxes. I actually am gonna get one.

[00:25:57] Cause I think it’s almost like a, a knee-jerk [00:26:00] reaction always with your phone, but like, you can lock it kind of, it’s like a cookie jar thing that you can literally lock it for like however much time and just maybe do 90 minute increments that you’re just your phone’s over here. So I don’t know. Things like that. 

[00:26:12] Desiree Stanley: That’s some great points that you just gave right there. I mean, oh my gosh. I just wanna reiterate all those things that you just said. Exercise hugely important. Hugely important. Even just getting up and walking around, like you said, in a 10 minute, you know, if you can get outside even better because then you’re getting fresh air.

[00:26:30] It’s like rejuvenating your body and your mind, right? Yes. Clearing your thoughts so when you come back, you can focus again. And then that focus timer, that’s another fantastic point. I use the Pomodoro app, which is a 25 minute work, five minute break, and then they’ve got, you know, 15 minute longer break.

[00:26:49] And so you can just use something like that. And there’s. Free options all over the internet for timers like that. That’s a, a fantastic one to really [00:27:00] keep you focused on getting those tasks done. So thank you for sharing those. And you know, of course I. Taking that day to rest, like you said, is so, so important.

[00:27:12] You can’t work yourself to death. We’re not supposed to be working to live. It’s, we’re supposed to be living, you know, and do some work. It’s, yeah, exactly. We’ve got it like backwards. But yeah, so thank you for sharing those. And then what else did you say that I wanted to talk about for a second? It was scheduling. Scheduling the night before. Yes. And that is something that I have found to be really beneficial as well because you take, you know, maybe seven, 10 minutes the night before and you just plot out in a notepad or in a calendar or a journal, if you’ve got one, whatever works for you, the things that you really want to accomplish the next day. And then the next day, voila, it’s there and you already know what you need to [00:28:00] do and you’re not wasting, 20, 30 minutes of your morning trying to figure out, well, what do I need to do?

[00:28:05] So, fantastic. Thank you for sharing those, Carrie again. That was awesome. 

[00:28:09] Carrie Miller: I mean, I hope, hopefully they’re helpful for somebody. Cause I, it took me a while to figure some of those things out, so. 

[00:28:14] Desiree Stanley: Yes. Yeah, for sure. And this is like, you know, lifetime of learning for me as well and, and finding these tools that work.

[00:28:22] And I think that, that’s what we have to do. We have to experiment and find what fits. What works for us and that we can sustain, right? 

[00:28:31] Carrie Miller: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Sustainability is key. You know, I had the burnout, so I took a vacation, but you know, you just have to really balance is key.

[00:28:39] I wish I could just scream it from the rooftops because hustle culture is in our faces and. Balance is, balance will get you farther, I think. 

[00:28:47] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, Carrie, thank you so much for coming on the show. I always like to ask the guests that come on, what books have you read or are you reading or [00:29:00] maybe podcasts that you’ve listened to that you think would be beneficial for the listeners to check out?

[00:29:05] Carrie Miller: Well for Amazon selling, helium 10 actually has a really good one. Serious Sellers podcasts and also AM PM podcasts. But in terms of books, I have Atomic Habits, and that’s something that I’m really focused on, is just like little habits that add up over time they talk about how in the beginning of the book, how you can go off course, going just a little bit when you’re sailing or bike riding or whatever it is you’re doing.

[00:29:27] If you, you can just end up way off course if you’re just going a little bit. But if you, you know, just improve like 1% every day or just do something consistently or even just a 30 day period, you can just really change your life. So I’m working on just. Changing certain habits, like, you know, waking up at certain times making sure to take walks and eating certain things.

[00:29:48] Just kind of, but not doing it all at once. Doing it kind of incrementally and rewarding myself for, you know, doing those habits. So Atomic habits. I think another book though that I really love, that’s a classic that I have to go [00:30:00] back to all the time is how to win Friends and Influence people. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:02] I think that’s a huge It just helps you in every aspect of your life to really understand how people think and maybe how you are. But just how to really have a positive impact. So I am, I’m not perfect with that one either, but I always like to go back and reference it. It’s a really, really amazing book.

[00:30:20] How To Win Friends and Influence People. Dale Carnegie. 

[00:30:22] Desiree Stanley: Yes, that that is a great one. And it was written so long ago. And we think like, what, what does it even mean today? And how does it relate? But when you take like the kernels of knowledge that’s in there mm-hmm. It it’s cross centuries. Yes.

[00:30:37] Really, I think it applies regardless of what time period we’re in. That’s a fantastic book as well, so thank you for suggesting those and I’ll include those in the show notes for the listeners to take a look at. Carrie, thank you again so much. I so appreciate you being on the show today. It was fantastic, I know the listeners will have gotten so much out of this.

[00:30:58] So thank you. 

[00:30:59] Carrie Miller: [00:31:00] I had great time with you, so appreciate you having me on. 

[00:31:02] Desiree Stanley: Well thanks again and we’ll talk soon. 

[00:31:04] Carrie Miller: All right, talk to you later. Bye. 

POK_Keri Blair Podcast_06_14_2023

[00:00:07] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my guest, Keri Blair. She is the owner and CEO of the Style Studio by Keri Blair, and I am so delighted to have her on the show today. Welcome, Keri. Thank you for coming on. 

[00:00:26] Keri Blair: Thank you so much.

[00:00:27] I’m excited to be with you. 

[00:00:29] Desiree Stanley: I asked Keri to come on the show today because I recently heard her on another podcast and she has her own, which we’ll talk about a little bit later, and I just said, fabulous information. She’s got such great tips, so many wonderful things to share. And so I wanted her to be on and share that with all of my listeners.

[00:00:52] So again, thanks for coming on and let’s go ahead and just jump right in and tell us how it [00:01:00] was that you decided to start the style studio. And was it just, bam, I wanna do this, or was it something that led up to that? 

[00:01:10] Keri Blair: So there was a lot that led up to it, I would say. I started the business over 20 years ago.

[00:01:17] Mm-hmm. And prior to this company, I was in sales and I would travel the country. And I would go meet with CEOs and executives in New York and LA and Texas and kind of all over the country. And had this epiphany that you can’t dress the same in different cities, especially in a boardroom because people won’t listen to you.

[00:01:42] And I was young. So that was my first epiphany. I went, wait a minute, I can’t dress the same. And then I would get burned out. And I would take a break from my corporate sales job and I would go work at Neiman Marcus for a little while, and then I would go back into my corporate sales job, [00:02:00] and then I would get burned out and take a break and go to Nordstrom for a while.

[00:02:03] Can you see a theme here? I was not meant for corporate sales. What I learned on that journey about that you can’t dress the same in different cities and be listened to the same way. And then what I learned in my journey of working retail was that people didn’t feel great about themselves. People would tug at their clothes and they were haphazard about how they dressed.

[00:02:28] And I had another epiphany one day, and I went, wait a minute, if people actually looked in the mirror every day and loved how they looked, and they felt amazing then they could knock it out of the park in life. And if we could remove that barrier, they would have way more success. They could meet the love of their life, they could make more money.

[00:02:52] And I saw all of this was possible. So I designed this way of working [00:03:00] with people to help fulfill their dreams. And for me, Fashion or clothing is kind of my vehicle to accomplishing people living amazing, extraordinary lives that they’ve always wanted. So that’s kinda my background and how I started.

[00:03:17] Desiree Stanley: I love it. And you know the point that you made about tugging at your clothes? Mm-hmm. It’s like this distraction your attention is split between how do I look and what am I trying to do right now? And you’re not giving your full attention to what it is you’re trying to do right now.

[00:03:34] Mm-hmm. And I think that that’s, Such a great point in what you’re saying, like we can really excel when that is just not something we even have to worry about anymore, right? 

[00:03:45] Keri Blair: Yeah. And if you think about how we start our day so every day, I don’t know about you, but I start my day with my mindset. I start my day by meditating.

[00:03:59] I also do [00:04:00] reiki and I get my mind set in this like awesome, pristine place, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. But then we go into our closets and you’re either gonna have a great experience or a terrible experience, and then that’s gonna shape the rest of your day. And people sometimes think that this conversation can be superficial or not that important, especially after the pandemic, right?

[00:04:28] However, if we actually were present to the difference it does make in shaping our entire day, I think people would pay more attention to it and do something about it, which is what I hope to inspire women everywhere about. 

[00:04:44] Desiree Stanley: That is such a valid point when I walk into my closet and I see the variety of things that are in there, because we do all have to dress for different occasions, right?

[00:04:55] Yeah. There’s our everyday running around doing errands. Then there’s, you know, a [00:05:00] business event we need to go to, or you know, a podcast we need to host or whatever the case may be. Yeah. And you, you’ve got those options that are there and sometimes it’s just like, Who do I wanna be today? Or who do I need to be today?

[00:05:14] Yeah, and And if you’re looking at what those options are and you’re not happy with it, that just throws it all like out of whack. 

[00:05:23] Keri Blair: Absolutely. Absolutely. Which brings me to something else I’m really passionate about, which is first impressions. Most people, I mean, I don’t know how old we were when we first learned about first impressions, right?

[00:05:36] I mean young, really young. we learned how important first impressions are, but, but most people aren’t doing anything about it, so they’re not actually taking control over it. And if you do, then you can take control over your success and your future, which is so extraordinary. 

[00:05:56] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Absolutely. So it sounds like [00:06:00] this journey that you were kind of back and forth between these two different things Yeah.

[00:06:05] Really helped you to like, kind of point the direction that you needed to go. And so you started the style studio how long ago? 

[00:06:16] Keri Blair: Over 20 years ago. Almost 21. Okay. Can you believe that? I know. I swear I look 30, but it was longer than that. 

[00:06:25] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. And, and so tell us then, how did you establish that?

[00:06:32] Was it like a traditional business that you were establishing, or was it all strictly kind of, you know, through online presence or how did you do that? 

[00:06:41] Keri Blair: No, so back then, There wasn’t really the online presence. Right. I started my business before the show not to wear. If you remember that, like before any of those shows were out, was there even a smartphone back then?

[00:06:54] I don’t think so. Mm-hmm. it really was before everything that we now have. [00:07:00] So, no. How I started my business was I had a client who shopped with me when I worked with Nordstrom and I, I didn’t say this, but I used to also lead personal development seminars. Mm-hmm. So I knew kind of how the human brain worked and how our psyche worked.

[00:07:17] I created this strategic way to work with people to alter their first impression to fulfill their dreams. Another way to say that is to have the essence of who they are on the inside. Shine through to the outside. And I went to this woman who shopped with me and I told her about my new process that I had created and she hired me.

[00:07:40] After working together, I think it took us three days. It changed her life. And after I saw what was possible, because I just jumped right in. I didn’t have a business plan. I had an idea, and then jumping right in and working with her and knowing it changed her life and then she wanted to share it [00:08:00] with everybody.

[00:08:00] Then I had a business, and you know, as with most people who start businesses, It was hard in the beginning because like I said, when I started this business, it was way before any of those makeover shows, and so when I told people what I was going to do for them, they kind of looked confused, like. You dress people, what people need that?

[00:08:25] It was a long time ago, right now you say it and everyone you know knows somebody who dresses somebody or every store has a personal stylist. Much different world today than back then. I, you know, started slow and it probably took me, I don’t know, four or five years to make it a full-time business.

[00:08:47] And now I have a staff of seven and a brick and mortar place that we style our clients out of and it’s awesome. 

[00:08:56] Desiree Stanley: Oh yeah. That’s fantastic. I love to hear that. [00:09:00] You can just start with an idea and don’t all businesses just start with an idea. Yes. I mean, obviously it’s great if we can have the business background or a five year plan in place and you know, a path that we wanna go.

[00:09:15] Sometimes it just doesn’t happen that way and it’s just super organic and it’s like, I’ve got this idea, let’s see if I can run with it. And that sounds like what you did and that’s fantastic. I love it.

[00:09:26] Keri Blair: I think sometimes it’s better when you start with a passion, not a plan, right? Mm-hmm. And that’s really what I did, is I started with a passion and then eventually people told me I needed a plan, but I was too naive to even know I needed a plan.

[00:09:41] I was just winging it. And lucky, you know, knock on wood, that it turned out. Sometimes I still pinch myself and look back and say, how did you become this successful? Like, how did that even happen? I mean, you know, now I address CEOs and celebrities and people [00:10:00] running for government and people who go to the White House, and I’m like, did I really do that with, with just a passion to change people’s lives.

[00:10:11] And yes. So I hope that inspires, especially women everywhere that, you know, find something that you love and that you’re passionate about and that will make a difference for others, and success will follow. 

[00:10:23] Desiree Stanley: Hmm. Yeah. That’s fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. 

[00:10:26] Keri Blair: Yeah. 

[00:10:27] Desiree Stanley: I wanna talk a little bit about something that you shared with me and that’s how branding and the personal kind of style leads to success.

[00:10:37] And you kind of touched on that briefly, but can you share a little bit more about that? 

[00:10:41] Keri Blair: Sure, sure. So one thing that makes me unique and my firm unique is that we are committed to really rebranding people through their first impression. Companies know the value of branding, right? So they focus a lot on their colors and the fonts they use and [00:11:00] their website, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:11:02] But people don’t, people just think if they focus all their attention on the businesses, that business will come, except for if your brand doesn’t match what you’re creating in the world, you’ll miss the mark. Mm-hmm. I like to use, I’m gonna use this example, it’s a funny example. So imagine you’re at a party or a networking event or what have you, and there’s a lot of people.

[00:11:28] And from across the room you see this guy and he is short, he’s kind of portly, he’s bald, and he looks like an accountant. Nothing wrong with accountants. I love my accountant, but you know, from my perspective, I would look across the room and say I don’t have anything in common with him, and it’s a split second decision.

[00:11:51] I don’t mean anything bad about this guy, I just mean like, oh, doesn’t look like someone that would be interested in my work or what [00:12:00] I’m up to, or I would have anything on commons. So I go about the night meeting other people. Right. Okay. So the night is coming near and end. And my best friend is there and she comes over to me and says, says, oh my gosh, have you met Steve yet?

[00:12:15] And I said, no, who’s Steve? And she brings this guy over to me and she’s like, this is Steve. I start talking to Steve and he is the funniest guy I’ve ever met, has a amazing personality. And we just hit it off and we ended up talking and he is like my new B fff, right? That happens all the time, doesn’t it?

[00:12:39] Yeah. I’m sure you’ve had an experience, but the problem is, is that Steve needed an introduction mm-hmm. To meet me because his image didn’t match who he is on the inside. So with wearing the right, the clothes and the right colors and the right styles, it can really bring out who you [00:13:00] are. And then if, if all that’s there is the essence of who you are on the inside shines through, you attract what you want to attract in life, it’s quite miraculous.

[00:13:12] Mm. I mean, I’ve had clients, I have this woman who hired me and she was up for a VP position in her company probably in the next two years, year and a half, two years. And she hired me. We rebranded her, redesigned her first impression, and she got the position within six months. Wow. There was another woman who came to me who was divorced for five years, was ready to get in a relationship, but she looked like a frumpy divorcee.

[00:13:43] So we had to completely redesign her and Refreshen who she is cuz she’s not that same woman anymore. And she was going on a FS cruise, which is so fun. And I mean, she had never had a manicure a day in her life. She had never put on makeup. [00:14:00] So, you know, we got her new clothes, taught her how to do simple five minute makeup, got her a manicure, she went on the cruise, met the love of her life.

[00:14:09] So when you can have your brand match who you are, miracles really do happen. Mm-hmm. I mean, I could tell you a story after story after story, and that’s amazing to me. And it’s even more amazing how many people don’t put even the littlest bit of attention on it because if they did, their lives would change.

[00:14:38] I just wanna inspire people to spend time on it and it really can change your life, even if it’s five to 10 minutes. You should be able to look in the mirror at the beginning of every day and love what’s looking back at you. Yeah. And you know, you have the same body, you have the same wrinkles, you have the same [00:15:00] everything, but with a little bit of attention.

[00:15:03] You can change the way you feel and changing the way you feel about yourself changes your life. 

[00:15:11] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. Oh my gosh, I love that. Hmm. Thank you for sharing those stories. So right on what you’re saying. Absolutely. Right on what I wanna ask you something. So if there’s somebody who is, say, Really unsure about changing the way they look because they think they have to look a certain way, even though they don’t feel that way.

[00:15:35] Like they’re, you’re talking about the personality of the person needs to come through in, in what they’re wearing, but they feel like, I need to dress this way because that’s just what I should do. How do you talk to people like that and help them change their mind about that? 

[00:15:49] Keri Blair: Give me an example. 

[00:15:51] Desiree Stanley: So, you know, For their job they feel like I need to be wearing something that’s you know, conservative. It needs to just be [00:16:00] like a brown suit or a blue suit or a black suit. And that’s just all they wear. But that’s not their personality. Mm-hmm. So how would they change it and feel still comfortable working in that environment and with what they’re wearing?

[00:16:15] Keri Blair: So, great question. I feel like. If the pandemic did one good thing, it would’ve gotten most of those people out of their box, right? If there is good with it, those people who were stuck in a box of only wearing a brown suit every day, a, they weren’t going to their office wearing that brown suit. B, they may or may not have been back in the office since.

[00:16:38] And I feel like it’s shooken up how all of us dress. Hmm. Yeah. So, and yes, there are a lot of bad habits people have, right? I mean, any person listening to this right now could go in their closet and with a little bit of time and a little bit of effort, identify at least three bad habits, [00:17:00] right? Things that they wear that they don’t love, things that they wear that don’t feel like them.

[00:17:05] Well, first of all, it’s context. Why would you make a change in the first place? Mm-hmm. So there has to be like a desire or a desired outcome. Otherwise they shouldn’t stop wearing the brown suit, like keep doing it. Right. But if you want to change and you want to see what else is possible and you want to feel better about yourself, that’s when.

[00:17:31] We come in, right? So then I would have them sit down and I walk people through this exercise in a course that I have which is I walk them through how to design your first impression. So that’s the first step, is who are you on the inside? And that could be the most difficult question I ever ask somebody is who are you, what are the most important characteristics of who you are?

[00:17:58] In three to five [00:18:00] adjectives. So that’s the first step, is who are you? And then going into your closet and seeing if that matches right? Like Steve, right? He’s funny, vivacious, fun, whatever. If he walked into his closet, he would’ve seen conservative, boring. Et cetera, right? Yeah. So I think that’s the first place to start.

[00:18:24] And then while you’re in your closet evaluating, does this represent that first impression and be willing to let it go if it doesn’t. Right? And that, and I say be willing because that’s a big part of it. You know, it’s it’s not an easy exercise and I never take it lightly with any of my clients. A lot of people think that who we are for ourselves is all wrapped up in how we look and how we dress.

[00:18:50] So we get attached to clothing. Right. I’m sure you could see it for yourself in some ways. Mm-hmm. So instead you have to [00:19:00] separate yourself from it and realize that it’s just an article of clothing. It’s not who you are. And if that article of clothing doesn’t serve you to be the best you, then you should probably let it go.

[00:19:12] Yeah. I love Marie Condo because she started making my life easy when she came out with her book. I love her because she has you look at everything and say, does it bring me joy? Right? And the minute she came out with that book, I had clients texting me, emailing, calling, saying, do you know she wrote a book about what you do.

[00:19:33] Which cracked me up. But we go a step further cuz it’s not just about if it brings you joy, cuz maybe those sweatpants bring you joy, but they don’t look great. So for me it’s about matching your brand and it bringing you joy. Yeah. So redesigning yourself is critical, but it’s only critical if you’re up to big things.

[00:19:56] Desiree Stanley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, good point. I love those [00:20:00] points that you just brought up. Looking at your closet. Does this serve me anymore? Does it bring me joy? And you know what’s interesting is I feel like for me personally, when I go into my closet, there are some pieces in there that I am holding onto because maybe I spent a lot of money on them.

[00:20:17] Oh. And I feel like I can’t get rid of ’em until I get my use out of it. I’ve, I’ve gotten my money out of it or whatever. Yeah, I hear that a lot, but Right. But it maybe doesn’t look the best on me. I don’t like it really anymore, but I just can’t seem to let it go. 

[00:20:34] Keri Blair: Yeah. 

[00:20:34] Desiree Stanley: Is it just like you have to sort of say, I just have to let this go.

[00:20:39] I mean, like how do you help your clients 

[00:20:42] Keri Blair: Yeah. 

[00:20:43] Desiree Stanley: To do that? 

[00:20:44] Keri Blair: I believe in energy. Do you believe in energy? 

[00:20:46] Desiree Stanley: Mm, absolutely. 

[00:20:48] Keri Blair: Okay. So I believe that everything has energy, right? Clothing, color, everything has energy to it. And so if there’s pieces in your wardrobe, which [00:21:00] 99.9% of people there are that don’t serve us.

[00:21:04] There’s an energy they’re giving to us and we’re giving with them. There’s an energetic exchange. Right. And it’s probably not a good one because every time you look at it, you’re like, oh, I spent so much money from a place of frustration, not from like Joy. Right. Right. So if that happens, or another thing is people put their skinny clothes in their closet mm-hmm.

[00:21:28] Waiting to get back to that weight. And it gives you the same kind of energy, the, like lack or a bad decision, or I’m fat or whatever that energy clothes give us that aren’t fulfilling us. So one thing that I say, being a believer in energy is you could thank the clothes. Yeah. Like pick up that piece that you paid a lot of money for and thank it for being in your life and.

[00:21:58] You know, making you [00:22:00] feel great when you wore it, and now it’s time to give it to someone else who will love it. And that’s an energetic exchange right? To, and whether it be that you sell it with consignment, And make some money back and someone else gets it at a discount. Or whether you give it to your best friend who’s been admiring it for years, or whether you donate it to an organization like Dress for Success.

[00:22:27] But if you can, thank it energetically have come from gratitude. Thank it. And then give it away with Joy. Oh my gosh. What will happen in your life, right? 

[00:22:40] So people think that holding on to things and like this attachment is okay, which on one hand anything’s okay, but like the joy that it brings you to release.

[00:22:52] Yeah. And I think the release is so important because it’s kind of like if you’re an artist and you have a blank [00:23:00] canvas in front of you, like if my daughter draws on the canvas, I’m not gonna pick up the canvas and start drawing on it. It already has stuff on it. Right. So you have to be willing to, to get rid of what you don’t love to create something new.

[00:23:17] Mm-hmm. You know, sometimes people call me and say, well, do we really have to go through my closet? Can’t we just start with the shopping part? I really just need new clothes. Well, you could. If you just need new clothes, but we go deeper than that and we rebrand you. So no. That’s not what I do, you know?

[00:23:38] Yeah. I help you create yourself newly and in such an inspired way that you, you know, really do love who you are every day and love how you look, because that’s inspiring. 

[00:23:50] Desiree Stanley: For sure. You know something that you said about. You know, the releasing of these, these pieces of clothing that, you know, [00:24:00] just it’s time to let ’em go.

[00:24:02] The relief, I think that you feel too. Yeah. Like of letting that go. And how frustrating it is when you’re looking at something that doesn’t fit right anymore. 

[00:24:12] Keri Blair: Yeah. 

[00:24:12] Desiree Stanley: And the kind of negative self-talk that can come from that. 

[00:24:16] Keri Blair: Absolutely. 

[00:24:17] Desiree Stanley: And so when you let that go, just the relief Yeah. That you can feel, and then you’re not having those conversations anymore.

[00:24:24] I mean, maybe it’s something that you do need to address. Whatever that case may be. But, but the relief of letting that go, you don’t have to have that conversation anymore when you’re looking at what’s in your closet. So I think that’s fantastic. 

[00:24:39] Keri Blair: And you brought up a really good point that I’m also passionate about, which is that that negative self-talk happens a lot about our bodies, especially as women, right?

[00:24:50] So as we age and change and have babies or. Or get older or gain weight. Or lose weight. I [00:25:00] mean, there’s so many different things that happen to a woman’s body that it’s so important to learn to love yourself, and I don’t think enough women do. And so that’s another thing that I go deep on in my course is how do you create a new relationship with your body because if you go into your closet and you think, okay, I’m too fat for that. I, that doesn’t work, that doesn’t fit, that’s too tight, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. First of all, you’re punishing yourself and if we take that, you have a relationship with your body, right? Yes. Like I have a relationship with my husband.

[00:25:39] You also have a relationship with your body, and if I’m mean to my husband every single day, our marriage isn’t really gonna work out. Right. Same thing with your body, but people don’t think of it that way. No. They think it’s okay to punish themselves. So if I punish my husband, he’s not going to [00:26:00] give me anything I want.

[00:26:01] Right? But if I treat him with kindness and respect, then we’re gonna have a better relationship and it’s gonna be more fulfilling and awesome. So, so you’ve gotta create an amazing relationship with your body. You don’t have to, but if you do, it will give back to you immensely. I’ve worked with women that are size 28 when they start working with me, I give them exercises to do that aren’t physical exercises, but I give them mental exercises to do to transform their relationship with their body.

[00:26:37] And I’ve had clients lose a hundred pounds in six months because they’re treating their body with respect. And they’re creating a new relationship. And I’ll tell you, one of the exercises I have people do, just to give a little freebie to your audience, is to look in the mirror every morning, naked difficult one.

[00:26:59] If you [00:27:00] can’t do it naked in the beginning, do it with clothes on and look to see what you can appreciate about your body. Find one thing. For some people it may be like that you can walk. Great start there. For some people it’s that your legs can have you go for a run or get you up and down the stairs.

[00:27:21] You may start small and that’s okay, but over time, if you do this exercise religiously, you will transform and you’ll come from gratitude with your body, which will change your life, and then you can start looking at the areas you really don’t like. Mm-hmm. Like for most women, it’s their stomachs.

[00:27:38] And you can start to appreciate what, what can you be grateful for with your stomach? It digests my food. It allowed me to have a baby. There’s so many things, right? Yeah. And it hosts all my organs in there. So I, if you can transform your relationship with your body, that’s a good start too. [00:28:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:28:00] To change in your life. So I really like to work with people on All the different aspects. So again, when people say this is superficial, it’s not, it really is life changing. And that’s why I say, you know, with, with our online course, I really do say like, give us six weeks and we’ll transform your life.

[00:28:20] Desiree Stanley: I love that you really, thank you for sharing, by the way. Yeah. That fantastic tip about really finding what it is that you can be grateful for and thankful for, for your body, because you’re absolutely right. I mean, we really, our body is a truly a miracle. Yeah. Whatever shape and size it truly is a miracle.

[00:28:39] But to thank your body for the things that it can do. That’s amazing. So I love that your, your working mindset Yes. As well. And that’s phenomenal. Mm-hmm. I wanna touch on the reiki aspect. I had a guest on previously Yeah. Who is also a Reiki practitioner. Yeah. So, so talk to us a little bit more about that.

[00:28:59] Like how do you [00:29:00] incorporate that in what

[00:29:00] you’re doing? 

[00:29:01] Keri Blair: So it’s kind of my private love. I became a reiki master, I don’t know, a year ago or so. And mostly I practice on myself and sometimes my family, I don’t do it to clients or outside of that. But what I love about it is, again, I really believe in energy and all reiki is, is the movement of energy.

[00:29:26] And so I like to use it to start my day moving energy and clearing out anything that doesn’t serve me, so that I can just be as, happy as positive and, and as service as possible for the people I interact with that day, whether it be on a podcast or with my family or with clients that I’m dressing, I just wanna clear out as much of my garbage as possible so that I can just be a clean vessel to do good in the world.

[00:29:58] Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s awesome. [00:30:00] Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. And, and so now let’s touch on the topic of podcasts because you did recently launch your own podcast. I did. So tell us about it. What’s, what’s it called and what it is that you share on there? 

[00:30:15] Keri Blair: Oh, awesome. So it’s called Style Your Dreams. And we incorporate some personal style.

[00:30:23] We talk about self-care, we talk about empowering yourself. Some days we talk about what to wear. Sometimes I talk about my challenges, like in Denver it has been so rainy the past two months and rain is not something that works well with my wardrobe. So I think I have a podcast where I talked about what do you do when you have no idea how to dress and how do you start to incorporate self-care into your life?

[00:30:53] Because for a lot of women, that’s not even something they know about or in it, it could [00:31:00] also be something that they just plain resist. Like, I don’t have time for that. I have time for my family, but not that. So so yeah, lots of conversations to inspire and to have your dreams come true. 

[00:31:14] Desiree Stanley: I love it.

[00:31:15] Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. You know, and you talk about clearing out your own garbage and I wanted. Touch on that a little bit more because you know, we’ve heard it before. People have said it to us before. I’ve said we’ve had guests on the podcast that have talked about it before, and that’s, you’ve got to take care of yourself so you can take care of others, right?

[00:31:36] Mm-hmm. And as you said, so that I can be of service to other people, because what happens when we’ve got this stuff that we’re not feeling good about, it just carries over through everyone that we touch in our lives, right? Yeah. 

[00:31:49] Keri Blair: Absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think I love that there’s that thing when you’re in an airplane that says, put your oxygen mask on first [00:32:00] and then attend to your children.

[00:32:02] How many moms in particular do you know that wouldn’t do that a lot? Yeah, right. They would be like, no, my kid comes first. But the truth is, if you don’t come first, you don’t have enough to give to your kid. And I can’t stress that enough, especially with women. You know, I have an almost 11 year old and there weren’t a lot of great role models around me.

[00:32:28] I didn’t know of many. I saw women not taking showers, not doing their makeup, not doing their hair. You know, barely brushing their teeth. And I vowed never to be like that. So I actually said there will not be one day that goes by having a brand new baby where I will not put makeup on and I will not do my hair and get dressed, and I’m not doing it for that baby.

[00:32:52] I’m certainly not doing that for my husband. I’m doing that for me. I’ve stayed true to that. And you know, it’s inspiring because now [00:33:00] my daughter is completely empowered about looking beautiful and feeling great about herself. In fact, sometimes if I want her to wear something and she doesn’t, she’s like, mommy, you really want me to look like I’ve given up on life?

[00:33:13] And I’m like, okay, okay, go change. Right? So she uses it against me, but. I think it’s so imperative to do all the little things you can do. I mean, you can start with five minutes a day and that can change your life, you know, can I tell you a quick story? Of course. Okay. So I used to listen to a lot of podcasts that would say things like, oh yes, I have to wake up at four 30 in the morning and do my meditation and write in my journal, and ha ha ha.

[00:33:45] And. I was like, who are these crazy people? Like, I will never lose sleep over all of that. Like, no, my, you know? Mm-hmm. And I would hear it you’ve heard him right? Of course. You, him all the time. And [00:34:00] I was always thinking, okay, I can’t even follow you anymore because that’s so unrealistic for me. But one day I stopped and I went, okay, well what can I do?

[00:34:09] Because I noticed I wasn’t taking great, I would do self-care, like do my hair and makeup and. Things like that. But I wasn’t doing self-care for my inner soul and my spirit. This was many years ago. So I was like, well, what? What can I invest in? And I decided I could wake up 30 minutes before my family, 30 minutes.

[00:34:32] That’s it. I could wake up 30 minutes. Early and have 30 minutes of quiet time to meditate, do reiki, do whatever feeds my soul, and then jump into my day with my family. And I will tell you, I don’t know how many years ago I started that, maybe five. And it has changed my entire life. And it’s also set boundaries with my family.

[00:34:57] So my daughter, if she [00:35:00] happens to wake up early and she sees my meditation door closed, she knows mommy’s not available. Make her own breakfast, she can take care of herself, and it’s amazing how much people will step up when you start setting your own boundaries and taking care of yourself. Mm-hmm.

[00:35:16] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Great point. 

[00:35:18] Keri Blair: Yeah. 

[00:35:18] Desiree Stanley: I love it. . Thank you for sharing that. 

[00:35:20] Keri Blair: Yeah, of course.

[00:35:21] Desiree Stanley: Keri, it’s been such a delight to have you on this show, and I really honestly feel like I could talk to you for another hour easily. You have just so much great information to share. 

[00:35:32] Keri Blair: Thanks. 

[00:35:33] Desiree Stanley: But I do wanna finish up our show and ask you if there’s any books that you have read or are reading now, or podcasts that you are still listening to that you’d like to share with the listeners that you think would be beneficial.

[00:35:47] Keri Blair: Yeah. Great question. Let’s see. My favorite book is probably The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. Have you read that one?

[00:35:57] Desiree Stanley: I have, yeah. Fantastic. 

[00:35:58] Keri Blair: So good, isn’t it? [00:36:00] And I have it on Audibles, and sometimes I’ll just go for a walk and listen to a chapter because it just puts life in perspective. 

[00:36:06] Desiree Stanley: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:07] Keri Blair: I really love that. Podcast I am religious on is I love James Wedmore’s Mind Your Business podcast. I don’t know if you know that one. 

[00:36:16] Desiree Stanley: No, that’s a new one for me. 

[00:36:17] Keri Blair: I, listen, came to it for years and he’s very into being mindful and very inspiring. And then an influencer that I love, that I’ve been telling people more and more about is Amanda Francis.

[00:36:31] And she is do you know Amanda Francis? 

[00:36:33] Desiree Stanley: I don’t. 

[00:36:34] Keri Blair: She is she has a course called Money Mentality Makeover and she is the money Maven and she’s very inspirational, very spiritual, very money mindset. You can have it all and I love her. And you can find her on Instagram. Those are, find my top three. 

[00:36:50] Desiree Stanley: I love it.

[00:36:51] I’ll go ahead and include all that information in the show notes for the listeners for a quick, easy access to find that again. Keri, it’s been so [00:37:00] wonderful to have you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing the great tips that you shared with us and your story and your journey. I love it.

[00:37:10] Thank you again for coming on the show and sharing with us. 

[00:37:13] Keri Blair: It’s my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me and I too could talk to you for hours. So thank you 

[00:37:19] Desiree Stanley: and we’ll talk soon. Okay? Okay. 

[00:37:22] 

Episode 37 Lisa Little_06_07_2023 Transcript:

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone, to the Pockets of Knowledge. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my friend Lisa Little. She is a realtor with Compass and she is out in the Austin area of Texas, and she is joining me today to share her knowledge and experience in the real estate world. We’re also gonna touch a little bit on why she started in real estate and kind of the path that led to that.

[00:00:28] So welcome, Lisa. Thank you for coming on the show. I so appreciate you sharing with us today. 

[00:00:35] Lisa Little: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is exciting.

[00:00:39] Desiree Stanley: Lisa used to live in the town that I live in now, and we had children that grew up together, did TaeKwonDo together, and that was how we met.

[00:00:49] And Lisa is just a fantastic gal. I love her energy, and she’s gonna be talking with us now about what led her to begin [00:01:00] in the real estate world and get her real estate license. So, Lisa, tell us what was it that prompted you to get into that? 

[00:01:08] Lisa Little: Oh my goodness. Well, that’s an interesting story. I grew up in California.

[00:01:13] I grew up in the Northern California Bay area. And pretty much all my life I knew I was gonna be in sales. My dad was in sales, my brother was in sales. So when I first graduated from college, I thought I was gonna go to law school and then I got a sales job and started making some interesting money and thought, no way, I’m gonna just enjoy this and keep going.

[00:01:32] But I was in corporate sales for a long time which I loved. It was excellent. But, you know, once I had some kids and decided to stay home for a little while, I realized that. I really needed to find something that was a little bit more passionate for me. I ended up becoming a director at Southern Living at Home, which was a multi-level marketing company and learned that I had a real love and passion and talent for [00:02:00] home design.

[00:02:01] And really got into that business for a while. After a few years of doing that, we just decided I needed to do something else and a bunch of my girlfriends from the high tech world had gone into real estate. I decided that I was gonna become a stager. So I opened up a staging business while I was living in the Bay Area.

[00:02:21] And did that for seven years, ran that out of my garage, which was an interesting endeavor. My husband was not too pleased cuz he could never put his car in the garage. But it was great. We had a really good time and then one day we made the decision that we were gonna move to Texas.

[00:02:39] My husband was originally from the Houston area. We knew we wanted to come to Austin. We loved the area, we loved the school districts, and we knew that this was just kind of a place that was calling to us. We picked up our family in 2013 and we moved. And as soon as we landed, I looked around and said, I think I need to do real estate.

[00:02:58] I think this is what I need to do. [00:03:00] So I did it and I got my license within three months of moving here. And everybody told me this was all about who you know, and I didn’t know anybody. I, I knew one person in Austin, so it was an interesting challenge, but that’s pretty much what brought me to real estate.

[00:03:17] Desiree Stanley: So tell us, like taking a step back, in terms of the staging business that you had started, is that still running? That’s the first question. And then also you said that you kind of had an eye, a knack for it, but what about the business side of it? In terms of launching a business and you know, what it takes to do that aspect of it.

[00:03:40] Did you have any experience in that or was it just, I love design. I love decorating. I wanna just do this. 

[00:03:48] Lisa Little: It was absolutely, I love designing. I love decorating. I’m just gonna do this. I had a lot of background in corporate sales. That’s what my background was in. I could sell anything to [00:04:00] anybody but I did not have a business background.

[00:04:02] So when I decided to start my own business, that was an interesting endeavor. You know, I started with just doing what I know and doing what I loved. And that was just staging homes and then I had to learn the business part of it, right? I had to learn how to manage my books and manage my income and pay my taxes on time and you know, how was I going manage my inventory and all of those things.

[00:04:27] So it, it took a while to figure those things out. I was there for seven-ish years in California doing that. But I figured it out. I leaned on people I knew and friends and colleagues and such to just kind of guide me through it. When I first moved to Texas, I brought a portion of the business with me.

[00:04:47] I did not wanna stage full-time and I was not gonna start looking for new business. But when I got my license, I found myself in a lot of training classes with new agents who [00:05:00] didn’t have relationships already with stagers. And so I spent my time kind of marketing and promoting to the newbies while I was trying to build my own business.

[00:05:11] And so I staged a little bit on the side just to kind of bring some income in while I was building my real estate business. Then my very best friend from California decided to move to the same town I did, which was interesting. But I just have to say I got here first. It was a little bit of a competition.

[00:05:29] But I got here first and when she sold her house in California and I looked at those pictures and I said, wow, who staged your house? And she said, well, I did. And I’m like, Oh girl, we’re gonna have to have conversations. Cause when you’re coming with me, you’re coming with me. So she got here, we found her house.

[00:05:48] All was great. And then I kind of roped her in and talked her into coming with me. And so she joined the business, which was amazing. And we had a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun staging together in those first couple [00:06:00] years. 

[00:06:00] Desiree Stanley: So the business is still operating to this day. 

[00:06:04] Lisa Little: Well, no, not so much. Just recently.

[00:06:08] So Michelle is the gal who came on board with me. After about a year or so of us working together in the staging world, I really decided I needed to take a step back and really focus my energy on the real estate world. She clearly knew what she was doing from a staging perspective. She really has an eye for it.

[00:06:28] But she also really has a good business sense. And so I realized really quickly that she was gonna be able to take that business farther than I would have. And so I took a step back and she basically took the business and ran with it. I guess now it’s been seven or eight years since I’ve walked away from that business.

[00:06:48] She grew it to an amazing point. She was my stager. She was everybody around me, stager. I mean, every agent I knew, I would talk about what Michelle was doing and she did a great job. [00:07:00] But just recently, literally like last year, I think it was October of 2022, Michelle got her real estate license which I’m super excited about, and she is now in the process of closing down the staging business and she has joined me.

[00:07:18] I’m in my journey and on my team, so she is now our buyer specialist. I focus mostly on listings and we’re working together again, which is super exciting. She’s killing it. 

[00:07:31] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I love it. 

[00:07:32] Lisa Little: Yeah. 

[00:07:32] Desiree Stanley: And I do of course follow both of you on all the socials, so I get to see the exciting stuff that you’re working on and doing together, and I love it.

[00:07:41] I think it’s fantastic. And that I wanna just touch on, you’re talking about leaning on those who have experience and knowledge in areas and how valuable that is to really help us, you know, kind of bring it together if maybe we’re a little short on [00:08:00] knowledge or experience in an area, leaning on those people who can help us kind of bridge the gap, if you will.

[00:08:07] Sure. Right. Sure. So I think that’s a fantastic idea. What a great way to use the resources that you have available to you, you know, in that way, so that’s fantastic. Thank you for sharing kind of how you did that and then, You sort of brought us into the next direction I wanna go.

[00:08:24] Talking about Michelle joining your team and how you’re now working with women in the area to kind of build up other women and their businesses. And so tell us about that. What’s been going on recently that you’ve been working on? 

[00:08:42] Lisa Little: Well, so one of the ways that I built my business here in this amazing little town that I’m in is through networking and, you know in my corporate world, I did a lot of work with the Chamber of Commerce and with, you know, networking and all of [00:09:00] that, but I really didn’t learn the true meaning of what networking was until I entered this business. I can probably take it back even to my staging business, but really more here. I like to tell the story that when we first got to this little town which is Dripping Springs, Texas, so you guys can all look it up on the map.

[00:09:19] We’re growing. We’re pretty big now, but when I first got here you know, my husband got settled in his job and my son got settled in his school, and my daughter got settled in her school, and it was about a month later that I was taking my daughter to a birthday party. And as we’re going there, she said, mommy, she was in middle of her second grade year.

[00:09:39] And she said, mommy, are you gonna come in to the birthday party cuz we were going to like this jumpy house place. And I said, well, do you want me to come in because I can come in if you want me to, or I can just drop you off either way. And she said, no, you know what, mommy daddy has his friends at work and Alex has his friends at school and I have, you need some friends, mommy.

[00:09:59] So I’m like, [00:10:00] okay. I’m coming in, I’m gonna make some friends. I walked into that birthday party and they had invited the entire class, so there were 35 kids probably there and all of their moms. And I sat back and I just kind of watched and I smiled and I chatted with a couple people and then I met this one woman.

[00:10:17] And we started talking and she looked at me and she says, I’m new to the area. And I said, so am I. And she goes, do you like wine? I said, I love wine. She goes, well, then we need to get together. So we immediately formed a bond. And from that point on, it was all about empowering women. I mean, I don’t know how it happened, but the two of us just connected and decided we needed to help each other bring our businesses up.

[00:10:44] She’s a Mary Kay director, an amazing woman who has built an amazing business. And we just decided we were gonna do it together. So, We joined the chamber, we ran the membership committee for a number of years. We taught classes on networking. We built [00:11:00] our businesses together. And it’s just been amazing. I knew more people in this town in the first three years that I was here than I knew in the 17 years I was in my town in California. And that has nothing to do with the people. It has everything to do with what I was doing. And it was amazing. It was really very, very cool.

[00:11:19] I can’t go to the grocery store without running into people I know, which is fun. 

[00:11:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And this is a small town also, although we are growing and, and have grown in these last 23 years, 24 years that I’ve been here. Mm-hmm. But you know, I think it’s interesting what you said about it’s really kind of begins with us.

[00:11:41] And the effort that we put into getting out to know people and. I think it sounds like there was a difference in what happened when you moved there. Maybe a little bit of a push from your daughter, which I love. I think that’s adorable. Yes. To make some friends. Yes. [00:12:00] And you know, because it is a new area.

[00:12:04] There probably. Mm-hmm. I think felt like a little bit more of a push to have to do that. Where coming from California, living in California your whole life, you know, maybe don’t put as much effort into it, right? 

[00:12:16] Lisa Little: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I was scared. I mean I took on a new career that required me to know people.

[00:12:24] You can’t do real estate unless you know people. This is a relationship business. This is not a sales job. It’s a relationship business, and I did not have a lot of experience doing that. So I had to just go back to what I knew was in my heart, which, takes me all the way back to being a Girl Scout cookie salesperson, right?

[00:12:45] When I was a little girl and going door to door and just, you know, my dad used to say I could talk to anybody anywhere, anytime. So I just leaned on that. But what I really learned was that there’s a lot of women that are [00:13:00] running small businesses that need that connection, that that’s what we do. We connect, I love men.

[00:13:08] I work a lot with men. I have a lot of great men in my business and in my network, but women just network differently. We start with giving before we get and we’re always trying to help and we’re always trying to understand and you know, a lot of us are moms or grandmothers or daughters or sisters or, you know, guardians of something, right?

[00:13:29] Even if it’s just our furry little friends. And so we’re always trying to juggle all of that. And so I really found my place in understanding how to help women grow. And I think that’s really where I found my knack. It’s been amazing. It really has. 

[00:13:44] Desiree Stanley: I love that I, and what you said about women are connectors.

[00:13:50] I really think that’s so true. Yes. Well, who’s the first person you ask? Anytime you need a new hairdresser or whatever the case may [00:14:00] be. 

[00:14:00] Lisa Little: Sure. 

[00:14:00] Desiree Stanley: You ask another woman. 

[00:14:02] Lisa Little: Yes. 

[00:14:02] Desiree Stanley: And they’re gonna tell you, you know, or I need to have my windows clean. I need to have my carpet clean.

[00:14:07] Who are you gonna ask? Yeah. A woman. And she’s gonna tell you, I had a great experience with these people. You should use them. Yes. And, and that’s what we do. We connect businesses. 

[00:14:17] Lisa Little: Absolutely. 

[00:14:17] Desiree Stanley: With people and people with businesses. So I love it. 

[00:14:20] Lisa Little: We ask women who to have your car fixed. I mean, we don’t ask the man, we ask the women.

[00:14:26] I mean, I don’t know why that is, but even things that we really don’t know a whole lot about, we just know what the experience was like, and when we have a good experience, we wanna share that with everybody and we wanna be. Helpful and we want to allow people to experience what we experienced or not experience what we experienced.

[00:14:44] Right. So yeah, it’s an interesting evolution that I’ve gone through from the corporate world all the way to this. Very, very interesting. . 

[00:14:52] Desiree Stanley: So tell us a little bit about, since you knew very few people, when you decided to get in real [00:15:00] estate, what was it that you did? I know you mentioned networking and really trying to get out there, and so was there something specifically that you did that really helped you build that aspect of your business so that you could grow and actually help people sell homes, help people buy homes?

[00:15:16] Lisa Little: So when you get into real estate, what’s interesting is that there’s a lot of ideas that everybody has of how you should grow your business. It’s very much the shiny object, right? You should door knock, you should send mailers, you should, go to business meetings, you should, all these things that you should do.

[00:15:33] And of course, every new agent gets caught up in that. I was told in the very beginning, which I thought was a really great piece of advice, is lead with revenue. Lead with revenue. Don’t spend your money until you start making money and then you can start spending money. So I really did hold back from spending a lot of money and marketing and all of those kinds of things.

[00:15:53] In the beginning, I really did two things. I held. Homes open. I did open houses every [00:16:00] weekend, almost just about every single weekend for my first year to my whole family’s dismay. But I did it. I held homes open and the second thing I did was I really leaned into that Chamber of Commerce in my small little town, volunteering to be on the membership committee where we were out literally like meeting new members and meeting existing members.

[00:16:21] And then I got, you know, hooked up with teaching a class on how to network in the Chamber of Commerce, how to build your business, how to write and speak a 60 second commercial and what that should look like. I was the face of that, you know, my friend and I, who I’d met at that birthday party.

[00:16:38] We were the face of the chamber for three years. I mean, you didn’t know the chamber without knowing us and you know, a handful of other people, but we were really the face. So between really working in the business, which was the open houses, and then really working the networking piece, which is the chamber, those two things came together.

[00:16:56] And in the midst of all of that, I found a coaching company. [00:17:00] That focused heavily on networking and referrals within the real estate business. And I glommed onto that and immediately hired a coach and started working with a coach. So between those three things, it all just kind of came together for me.

[00:17:15] Desiree Stanley: Tell us a little bit then about the coaching company and what it was that they did to help you work those referrals and, I mean, was it somebody you worked with every single week? Was it every single day or once a month? What was that process like? 

[00:17:30] Lisa Little: So the coaching companies located down in Carlsbad, California.

[00:17:34] Do you want me to tell you the name? 

[00:17:35] Desiree Stanley: I think it’s Buffini and company. 

[00:17:37] Lisa Little: Yes. Yeah, Buffini. So Brian Buffini, I’m a huge advocate of his I was first introduced to him by a friend who said, just listen to his podcast. And I listened for about six months. I was hooked, absolutely hooked.

[00:17:51] He’s my age. He is everything who I am, only in the male role and a lot more wealthy, but that’s okay. And [00:18:00] just, he just spoke to me. I went to a seminar of his in Dallas and I was like, I’m done. I gotta sign up for coaching. So I did. And the entire premise behind what Buffini teaches is work by referral.

[00:18:12] That’s the everything. It’s build your relationships, go deep, go wide. And he talks so much about how to build those relationships and nurture those relationships, which is who I am and what I love. It doesn’t feel like work to me. It’s just making friends and building relationships.

[00:18:31] And his whole premise is notes, calls and Pop bys. So you make your calls. You write your notes, personal handwritten notes. I’ve got stacks of them on my desk. They’re everywhere. You can see all the different notes I’ve got here. I write lots of personal notes. And then Pop bys are If you were in Texas, you would think that was a chicken chain, like kfc.

[00:18:52] It’s called Popeye’s, but these are pop bys and it’s just little gifts that you bring to your top people on a [00:19:00] monthly basis or quarterly basis just to say, Hey, I’m thinking about you. And, just to increase dialogue and just, you know, increased the relationship. So I really jumped into that.

[00:19:11] And I took that to the open houses and I took that to the the chamber and I built that with it. And you know, when I look at my database, if you will call it that now, they’re really my friends, they’re really people that we have dinner with. We invite them here for Christmas. Every year we do a. A chili party that we started actually in California.

[00:19:32] I think you might have come to one of those. We still do chili and cheer here, and my clients are the ones who come as well because they’re our friends. And they’re just part of our family. It’s, it’s been amazing. 

[00:19:43] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s so fantastic. And Brian’s podcast is phenomenal.

[00:19:49] He teaches such great content. There so much in terms of managing your finances and you know, like you said, building those relationships and mm-hmm. [00:20:00] And all of that. So I highly recommend it. I listen to his podcast as well. It’s fantastic. And really that teaching of build the relationship first, right?

[00:20:09] We are caring people, we care about other people. It’s what can I do for you? How can I help you? And then it just grows from there, right? 

[00:20:17] Lisa Little: Absolutely, absolutely. If you start with that attitude that I’m gonna help you first and just trust that once you give, it’s gonna come back.

[00:20:28] And it’s not ever or always going to come back directly. Like, you know, I give to you, that doesn’t mean you’re gonna immediately give back to me. But when you give, the universe just gives back. 

[00:20:39] Desiree Stanley: That’s right. 

[00:20:39] Lisa Little: And I’m such a big believer of that. I always have, I always keep telling my husband, the more you put out there, you just put yourself out there into the universe.

[00:20:46] It just comes back and it’s just amazing how that happens. So I love that. I love that part. 

[00:20:51] Desiree Stanley: Hundred percent. Yeah, I totally agree with you on that for sure. It’s you’ve got to give to get, and you’re right, it isn’t gonna be necessarily [00:21:00] like tit for tat or whatever, but Right, right.

[00:21:02] It’s just, it’s just the giving nature that the universe wants to give back to you. It’s sure. Just the way it is. 

[00:21:09] Lisa Little: That’s right. That’s right. 

[00:21:10] Desiree Stanley: Well, let’s talk now a little bit about some things that are happening in the real estate world because there’s a lot of things that are happening not just in real estate, but you know, in terms of mortgage and lending and interest rates.

[00:21:24] That’s kind of like this affects that. And so, and I know your market is gonna be a little bit different than say, California. Or Montana or you know, Georgia. 

[00:21:37] Lisa Little: Sure, sure. Okay. So the market has definitely, we’re on a wild ride this year. We were, we’ve been on a wild ride for a couple of years.

[00:21:47] But I will tell you that in general, when interest rates go up, Buyers tend to get a little bit hesitant about buying. And when interest rates go up and we have less [00:22:00] buyers, then the market starts to feel a little bit of a push. That’s really where we are right now. We’ve had some spikes and we’ve had some dips and we’ve had some plateaus.

[00:22:10] And I think really actually in the last week, week and a half, we’ve had some, some spikes and dips again. What I tell my clients is this, we’re always gonna have people who need to move, right? We’ve got people who have life issues, life situations going on, whether it’s a birth of a child or a change of a job, or a death of a family member or, or divorce or marriage or babies or whatever.

[00:22:35] All those things are right? People are always looking to move. So there’s always people in the market that are looking as a buyer, if you’re really so focused on the interest rates, what you need to realize is that when interest rates are high, prices are tend to be a little bit lower.

[00:22:50] Mm-hmm. So it’s a good time to buy because the prices are lower and you can always refinance. When the interest rates are low, the [00:23:00] prices are a little bit higher, it’s still a good time to buy it because your interest rate is low. Right. But you’re buying at a higher price. So I, I try to really calm my clients down and just say, look, if this is the right time for you to sell, or if this is the right time for you to buy, and you have an impending event and this is important to you, it’s going to work, it’s going to be okay.

[00:23:22] This is the biggest investment that a lot of people make and we need to be good stewards of that, right? That’s our job is to give as best advice as we can. So I try not to get too hyped up into the market. I really try more to educate each individual client on what’s best for them.

[00:23:40] I have a number of buyers. Who are waiting because it’s just not the right time for them. I have a number of sellers who are waiting. It’s not the right time for them. And then I have some that are in between that are, this is the right time. So we have a housing shortage in this country.

[00:23:54] We’re going to have a housing shortage for many years to come. Our industry is gonna [00:24:00] continue to be strong. You know, you gotta do what’s right for your family and what, and what’s right for your own investments. Don’t listen to all that stuff. Make the decision based on what’s right for you.

[00:24:09] That’s, that’s how 

[00:24:10] I handle it. 

[00:24:11] Desiree Stanley: That’s excellent advice too because it really, the most important thing is what you need for your life situation. Like you said, if your changes in family changes in job, whatever, you’ve got to just do what makes the most sense for you at the time that you’re in right now.

[00:24:30] Lisa Little: Right. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I can’t tell you what’s right for you. All I can do is tell you where the market is and I can tell you what’s happening and I can tell you what we think is gonna happen, but none of us have crystal balls. Nobody can tell you for sure what’s gonna happen in six months. We can all guess and speculate.

[00:24:46] And if you’re in the industry, you’re speculating positive always, cuz that’s what we do. But you know, it’s really just what’s right for you. And, and that’s what I would encourage everybody to do is find. Somebody that you can [00:25:00] trust and talk to that can help you figure out what’s right for you. 

[00:25:03] Desiree Stanley: Well then let’s talk a little bit about since you are kind of giving some advice to buyers and sellers, what are some things that maybe first time home buyers should be thinking about when they’re getting ready to begin the process of searching for a home?

[00:25:18] Lisa Little: Oh boy. So first of all, be very careful not to make a decision based on emotion. Mm-hmm. I always say really take a step back and understand what you can afford. Just because you got approved for 500,000 or 700,000 or even a million doesn’t mean you can afford. 500 or 700 or a million.

[00:25:41] So really, be careful with that and really think through what that monthly payment’s gonna look like in your budget. Remember that this is not the house that you’re gonna be in for the rest of your life, so you’re not gonna get every single thing you want. And it’s okay.

[00:25:56] It’s okay to, to buy a home that works for [00:26:00] you. Now, knowing that in the future, There’s gonna be something else. Just get into the market. Get into the market. I’m a big advocate of not renting if you don’t need to. To me, renting is just paying somebody else’s mortgage and their taxes.

[00:26:15] So if you can afford to buy and you’ve got, you know, the means to do that, then I would highly recommend it. Because once you’re in the market, then you can continue to go up with the market as the market continues to go up. Find yourself a local realtor, somebody who understands the area that you are looking in.

[00:26:34] And in our town we have septic, we have wells. We have propane, we have natural gas, we have land that is being subdivided. We have agriculture exemptions and wildlife exemptions and solar, and we got so many crazy things here. And when an agent comes in from. You know, a big city, you can only imagine the big cities that are surrounding Austin, right?

[00:26:58] So represent a [00:27:00] buyer and they don’t understand what a septic system looks like and how that can affect you. You’re not doing your client any justice, so make sure that you’re working with a realtor that understands the market that you’re in and make sure that you’re working with a local lender, somebody who understands the laws and the rules of that area because.

[00:27:21] It’s not just about the rate, it’s also about all the other things that go into closing on a house and all the extra fees and all of those things. So you really need to be very careful that you’re working with the right people. If you have a friend or family member that has a referral, use them.

[00:27:38] I would highly recommend that instead of going online and just finding somebody And take your time. Take your time and just make sure it’s the right house. You’re gonna know from when you walk in if that’s the right place. You’re just gonna know. 

[00:27:50] Desiree Stanley: That’s great advice. I love that. Thank you for sharing those great points.

[00:27:56] And I wanna talk a little bit about something that you said [00:28:00] where this is not necessarily gonna be the home that you are in forever. 

[00:28:05] Lisa Little: Sure. 

[00:28:05] Desiree Stanley: I think that a lot of times, you think this is gonna be your forever home. Like you’re, you’re looking for the home that you’re gonna just be in forever. And instead of thinking like, oh, Maybe it is just something to get my foot in the door, right?

[00:28:21] Lisa Little: Sure. 

[00:28:21] Desiree Stanley: Just something to get me into the market. Like you said, it’s sort of like the concept of getting on the train before it leaves the station, right? Because absolutely, you’re gonna miss it. You’re gonna miss the market and you might end up being priced out of the area and not be able to buy because you can’t afford it, because it has. Gone, beyond your reach. So I think that’s a great piece of advice that you shared there. And Absolutely, you know, you’re right. The agent has got to know the area and the lender has to know the area. and the thing about the lenders too that they know the different programs [00:29:00] for your area. Because there may be special lending programs that are available. And you may qualify for different loans and the lender’s gonna know that because they’re in that area. So that’s a another great piece of advice.

[00:29:13] Lisa Little: Yes. I always tell my clients too, you know, you want a local lender because, And this sounds really bad, but I used to tell them, I probably don’t tell them this as much, but you know, if there’s just somebody that I can just, if I need to go choke ’em in person, I can. Right.

[00:29:27] Like, do your job. Right. You need to be in person. You need to be somebody who’s local, not an 800 number that you’re trying to get to that you’re, Emailing or faxing. There’s people out there still asking faxes, you know, your paperwork over five and six times. So if your realtor feels comfortable with that lender, that’s who you should go to.

[00:29:48] If you feel comfortable with your realtor. And they like the lender, they’re a team. And that’s a team that can get you to the finish line, which is where you really wanna be. So, I just can’t say it [00:30:00] enough. You need to work with local people. Yeah. 

[00:30:03] Desiree Stanley: Awesome. Well, thank you for really going into detail with and sharing all about that.

[00:30:08] I love it. 

[00:30:09] Lisa Little: Sure. 

[00:30:09] Desiree Stanley: I think that’s great advice. So I wanna talk a little bit about what are maybe some misconceptions that people have when they’re going into the home buying or home selling process? 

[00:30:22] Lisa Little: Oh, misconceptions. There’s so many. There’s so many. So number one, let’s just talk about your realtor.

[00:30:29] Your realtor is not sitting back making oodles of money and not doing a whole lot of work. A good realtor is doing their job, which is a tremendous amount of work. It’s not only trying to help you find the right home in the right location and guiding you through the process of, what that entails, but also truly negotiating on your behalf.

[00:30:50] I mean, I think that’s probably our number one job is really negotiating on the behalf of our clients and making sure that we are [00:31:00] providing our clients with all the necessary information. Again, is there a septic? Is there a well, should we have it inspected? What does that inspection look like? What should you be asking for in that inspection report?

[00:31:11] What should you be asking to have repaired and when is it time to walk away from a deal? And not be afraid of that because that, you know, sometimes you get into it and you realize it’s just not the right thing. So your realtor really needs to be somebody who is gonna fight for you and not just sit back and, and make a paycheck.

[00:31:29] So that’s number one. Number two, misconception is that once you buy a house, it’s just gonna automatically go up in value. Yeah, no, the, the market is volatile. It goes up and it goes down. But hang on, hang on. And just hold on to that home if you can. And wait through the process. Wait through the market because Eventually you will make money on it.

[00:31:53] There’s a great song that Luke Bryan sings with somebody else. I can’t remember who it is. It’s called Buy Dirt. So I’m in [00:32:00] Texas, we love our country music. Buy Dirt is a great song because it really just basically says, To be successful in life, you need to buy dirt. You just need to buy land. And that just basically means you need to buy a home get into the market and buy a home.

[00:32:15] I think it’s the best place to put your money. It’s absolutely, to me, the best place to put your money. So that’s the second misconception. What else? People who make a lot of money are the only ones who can buy a home, and that is not true. There are many places in this country and many places in your own city and my own city where you can buy a home and not be a millionaire.

[00:32:39] You just have to find the right area, the right home, the right people to support you, the right lender and have them help you. And I will tell you this too, if you are thinking about buying a home and you are a first time, Buyer, you should be working with a lender at least 12 months before you’re gonna actually [00:33:00] pull a trigger.

[00:33:01] They can help you get your credit score where it needs to be and help you figure out how much cash flow you need to have and every other thing that you need to do. They are there to help you. So you need to work with those lenders well before you are seriously considering buying, and they will be more than happy to help you.

[00:33:21] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. That’s fantastic advice right there because I think the misconception there is that you just decide I’m gonna buy a home, and then you just start to look for a home, right? And that’s kind of like putting the cart before the horse. You’ve got to really have that background stuff done.

[00:33:38] Your credit score needs to look good. You’ve gotta make sure your bills are all paid on time, right? Working with that lender, they can help you get all that stuff in line so that when you’re pre-approved, which means they’ve looked through all your finances with you and mm-hmm they can tell you how much you’re qualified for, then you can go begin looking for the home that [00:34:00] fits that for your budget.

[00:34:01] That makes the most sense. So that’s great advice. I love that. 

[00:34:05] Lisa Little: Yeah. I would say too, on the seller side, it’s the same story. If you’re thinking about selling your home. You should be working with an agent who understands the market six months to a year before you put it on the market. If you’re, if you can, obviously there are situations where you can’t, but.

[00:34:25] You know, before you start ripping and tearing at that kitchen and pulling out floors and painting walls and changing out light fixtures, you should be talking to an agent about, you know, where you’re thinking about going, what price point you want to be at, so that you can make decisions on, does it make sense to put this amount of money into my house in order to sell?

[00:34:44] It does it make sense to put any money into my house. Does it even make sense to sell right now? So, You know, I would say at least 70% of my clients are people that I started working with six to nine months before they were ready to sell.[00:35:00] Some of them we’ve guided them through some remodels.

[00:35:03] Some of them we’ve said, let’s just, you know, shampoo the carpets and put it on the market. It just depends on what they’re trying to accomplish. 

[00:35:11] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. You know, that just brought up something for me that I wanna talk about, and that’s whether or not it makes sense to do those remodels or like you said mm-hmm.

[00:35:20] Just shampoo the carpet and you’re good to go. And where is that decision made and how is that decision made? Because some people think like, I don’t wanna put another dime into this house, I wanna just sell it. As it is and they can fix it however they want. Sure. But does that make the most sense?

[00:35:40] And you know, so talk about that with us right now. When, when does that make the most sense and when does it make more sense to maybe do a little bit of work? 

[00:35:48] Lisa Little: Well, I think it makes sense totally depending on what your resources are at the time. Right? So if you’ve got the resources to put some money into the house and what we’re looking [00:36:00] at, you know, if we can put 10,000 into the house and get $50,000 back, that makes sense.

[00:36:06] If we put $10,000 in and we get $10,000 back, Does that make sense? It might because we might be able to sell it in a quicker amount of time. Maybe you’ve got three kids running around the house and two dogs and getting them out of the house every time you’re trying to show it is gonna be a real pain, right.

[00:36:22] And a hardship. So maybe it makes sense to do it quickly. It really depends on the situation, but the earlier we can make those determinations the better. Coming from my design background and my staging background. I am very particular about the way my homes look before I put ’em on the market.

[00:36:42] But that doesn’t mean that it costs a lot of money. I mean, putting your home on the market and reaching the standard that I think we need to get to could just mean sitting on the floor and magic erasing your baseboards, right? I mean, I can’t tell you how many times we’ve done that with our clients or, just doing some touch [00:37:00] up paint.

[00:37:00] Or changing out a light fixture for one at Home Depot that’s just a little bit more modern for $150. I mean, those little things can make a huge difference. Staging makes a huge difference. Just rearranging how the furniture is and decluttering certain things. That does not mean take everything out of your house.

[00:37:21] We do not wanna strip your house bare to no personality. We want to showcase what’s most beautiful in your home. So if that’s your floors or if that’s your windows or your tall ceilings or the beautiful fireplace or whatever it is, that’s really stunning about your home and there is something stunning about every home.

[00:37:42] There just really is. Then that’s what staging is supposed to do, is just showcase what is amazing about that home. So to go back to the question, it really just depends on the budget. It depends on the timeline, depends on the house. It depends on the market. But if you bring in a professional, [00:38:00] we can help you decide that we can help you, you know, weed through those questions.

[00:38:05] Desiree Stanley: That’s excellent. And we talked a little bit before the show began about the difference in home design and designing a home and home staging and staging a home for sale. So talk to us a little bit about that. How are those different? 

[00:38:21] Lisa Little: Yeah. Being a home decorator or designer is not a home stager at no way, shape or form a home decorator or designer, either one. A designer typically is one who’s gonna help you figure out moving walls and, and that kind of thing. Whereas a decorator is really more the aesthetic, right? The curtains and the furniture and stuff. But either way, you are decorating, designing for the taste of the homeowner, right?

[00:38:47] So I love chickens and I want chickens everywhere in my house. Okay, so that’s a decorator, that’s a designer. Those are people who are gonna help you figure out how to put chickens everywhere in your house and make it look good. A [00:39:00] stager is there to help, again, showcase the best features of the home and make it appeal to the most people out there, the most buyers.

[00:39:12] So this is where we get into more neutral colors. We get into less furnishings so people can really, you know, see the space and understand what they’ve got to work with. If you’ve got natural light coming in, we don’t want big draperies. So that’s really where a stager comes in. I am very much.

[00:39:32] A decorator for staging. I mean, I’ve got that look down. I know how to walk into a home and my stagers do as well and see what’s beautiful about it and figure out a way to showcase that. If you want me to decorate your house with chickens, I’m not your gal. I’m just, that’s not what I can do. And I’m not good at it, and I’m, so there’s a definite difference between those two people.

[00:39:56] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for giving us the ins and outs of those and it totally [00:40:00] makes sense, I mean, a decorator is somebody who’s more designing for your own personal taste. Sure. Whereas a stager is somebody who’s gonna be designing to make it visually appealing to the most people so they can really see, what the space allows for, you know, it’s like a visualization, right.

[00:40:19] That people can see. Hmm. My furniture can fit this way, or I can use this room in this way and 

[00:40:25] Lisa Little: Right, right. 

[00:40:26] Desiree Stanley: You know, so that’s really the concept and I think it makes a difference. And you talked about stripping a house bare. And you don’t wanna do that really either, because again, the buyer comes in and can’t see like, what is the purpose of this room?

[00:40:39] I have no idea what I would do with this room. But when you’ve staged it in such a way that, like you said, you’re showcasing it so that people can see, Hmm, this is what I could do with it and this is how I can make it look, it makes a difference in what they think that the home is worth and is it gonna work for their family.

[00:40:57] Lisa Little: Yeah, absolutely. You know, when we were in [00:41:00] the middle of Covid, we had a home that we were putting on the market that had an upstairs bonus room, right. Which a lot of homes in the Austin area have, right? We have these bonus rooms that could be media rooms or you know, game rooms for the kids, playrooms, what have you.

[00:41:16] And this was an older couple who had no kids and they had it set up as a second seating area upstairs. And we came in and we said, okay, this community is feeding to one of the best school districts in the area. This entire neighborhood is filled with kids. You know, you guys are definitely the anomaly.

[00:41:35] There’s not very many older couples without kids who live here, and right now 90% of these kids are homeschooling. So when we came in and got this house ready to sell, we staged that bonus room as a homeschool. We put desks and a little sofa in the middle with some games on it and some shelves and just made it look like, look, this is where your kids can come and do their homework.[00:42:00] 

[00:42:00] And you know, within five or six days, we sold that to a family who had four kids all going to the school and needed space for their kids to be able to be homeschooled. It’s all about the visualizing, you know, they could have visualized that any way they wanted to, but to put it in front of them that way and make it very clear that this was a space for their kids, made all the difference.

[00:42:21] So those are the little tiny things that we do as a stager. 

[00:42:25] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Thank you. So this actually brings up a question for me in terms of how do you stay on trend? Like how do you figure out what’s happening? Is there classes that you’re taking? Is there things that you’re learning that help you stay up to date with what’s going on?

[00:42:43] Lisa Little: So in terms of the staging side I leave that to my stager. She’s gonna stay up on trends. I’m gonna tell her what I like, and then we’re gonna meld those two together. But in terms of the market and in terms of real estate, we’re always, always learning, always trying [00:43:00] to be better.

[00:43:00] So, you know, we have our classes that we have to take every two years to renew our license. Everybody knows that. And there’s certain classes that we all have to take and, and that’s good. And then there’s other classes that we can take to be better. My team is constantly in front of city officials, county officials builders developers.

[00:43:24] We have what we call county commissioners, which are kind of like judges, if you will, that are making policy decisions about roads and bridges and wastewater and all of those things that are so important to Texans. And so we’re always in front of those folks learning and growing so that we can understand really what our community is doing and so that we can provide that information back.

[00:43:46] So it’s a full-time job just learning. But it’s fun. It’s, it’s pretty cool. Yeah. 

[00:43:51] Desiree Stanley: You mentioned that there’s classes that you have to take that’s required as part of your licensure, but there’s [00:44:00] also things that you can take that you can elect to take that sort of differentiate you and you get a little bit of a specialization.

[00:44:07] And so do you have any of those you know, kind of like letters after your name? 

[00:44:12] Lisa Little: I have a few. So I have what they call a negotiation specialist. So if anybody knows anything about Lisa, they know that Lisa loves to negotiate. It’s one of my favorite things. So I do have that negotiation specialist certification letters behind my name.

[00:44:30] I also have taken many other classes that don’t have certifications that have to do with negotiation as well. I also have a certified luxury home marketing specialization. So just knowing how to market luxury homes is definitely different than, than non-luxury homes. So I have that one. And then I have a general real estate license behind me as well, which is like marketing and finance and education.

[00:44:56] It’s like a three piece course that they do here in Texas. [00:45:00] I’m not sure if they do it anywhere else. And I’m actually right now working on my broker’s license. I will not open my own brokerage. I would be more of a broker associate, but I’m building a team. I’ve got, you know, there’s three of us now.

[00:45:12] We’re looking to grow that team. And so I feel like having my broker’s license is something that will only help me be better in that respect. 

[00:45:20] Desiree Stanley: So tell us then, what is the difference between just a realtor or a real estate licensee versus a broker real estate broker associate? 

[00:45:31] Lisa Little: So a broker associate really has a little bit more responsibility.

[00:45:34] You’re really more in tune with the laws that are, you know, governing. Real estate has a ton of laws behind it. We are very highly regulated. Because this is, again, the biggest asset that many people are gonna purchase and sell. So, it’s important that we understand, what we’re doing and what the laws are.

[00:45:55] We are by no means lawyers. We cannot act as a lawyer. We cannot give legal [00:46:00] advice. But as a broker, we’re just held to a little bit higher standard and we really understand a little bit more about what those laws and regulations are. As long as I work under a broker, they’re legally responsible for me and my team in terms of what we do.

[00:46:15] But that broker’s gonna hold me to a higher standard for what my team does once I have my brokers associate license. Yeah. 

[00:46:23] Desiree Stanley: Well thank you for clarifying that and 

[00:46:26] Lisa Little: Sure. 

[00:46:26] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So is there. Any books or podcasts? I know we talked about Brian’s earlier, and I’ll of course share that information in the show notes, but is there any other books or podcasts that you wanna share with the listeners now that you think would be helpful or beneficial?

[00:46:44] Lisa Little: So I’m a huge advocate of personal growth and development. My family teases me because when we go on vacation, they were like, mom, you should be reading like a Romance novel or a whatever. And, and I don’t, I’m always reading something that has to do with growing in [00:47:00] business.

[00:47:00] And it’s funny cuz we talked about this today, but this is the actual book I’m reading right now. It’s called The Go-Giver. I’m sure you’ve heard of it. I love parables, I love short stories. And this book is really just about How giving first always comes back to you. I read this about three or four years ago.

[00:47:18] I reread it about a year ago, and I’m in the process of reading again. It’s a great book for anybody who’s just looking to you know, figure out how to give first. It’s a great little parable. I have a whole bunch of books like that I read and I would highly suggest if you’re in the personal growth and development mode like I am. Brian Buffini has a whole list of books. You can just go onto his website and look, and there’s tons of great books in there that I’ve probably read them all two or three times. So, Kinda a nerd that way. 

[00:47:48] Desiree Stanley: Well, you know what? I think that it makes such a difference in how you are able to help other people, to educate other people because you’re taking the time to [00:48:00] learn and grow and develop and continually improve your skills.

[00:48:04] And that just makes you better at what you do in helping people. And I love it. I think it’s fantastic. 

[00:48:11] Lisa Little: You know, what fun are we having if we’re not helping other people meet their goals and meet their dreams. So that’s what it’s all about to me. It’s a lot of fun. I love it.

[00:48:18] Yeah. 

[00:48:19] Desiree Stanley: Lisa, it’s been so wonderful to have you on the show. I appreciate you taking the time to educate us on all of these different things. And it’s, Just such a treat. And so I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the show, share your knowledge, experience and your time with the listeners.

[00:48:40] So thank you.

[00:48:41] Lisa Little: Absolutely. And I appreciate being here, and I’m so excited about your podcast. I love it. I listen to it all the time. I’m so proud of you for getting this going and more power to you, and I’m gonna be hopefully listening to a lot of other people that I know on this podcast soon.

[00:48:56] Desiree Stanley: We’ll talk soon. 

[00:48:57] Lisa Little: Thank you. Okay. Bye-Bye.[00:49:00] 

Episode 36 Penney Day_05_31_2023 Transcript:

[00:00:00] Desiree Stanley: Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my very good friend. Penney Day. Welcome to the show, Penney. I’m so thrilled that you’re on to share with us your knowledge, your experience, and your journey. And Penney is a single mom and her journey really is about the caring of her daughter who has some very special needs.

[00:00:27] And so she’s gonna be talking with us about that today. So again, thank you Penney for coming on the show. 

[00:00:32] Penney Day: Thank you Des, for having me. I hope I can give some information to people that they may not know about how to deal with kids that are like mine. 

[00:00:40] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. One thing that we talked about before we started was how.

[00:00:45] People like myself can understand the position that you are in as a mom, a single mom who is , taking care of her daughter, who has these very special needs. And from an outside perspective, we really can have [00:01:00] no idea of what you have gone through and what you continue to go through. So how can we be better and more understanding of someone who’s in a position such as yourself.

[00:01:11] So why don’t we start with that. 

[00:01:13] Penney Day: Well, I think the most important thing is that just acknowledging the fact that these children are out there, they are adults, they are children, acknowledging the fact that they are there. When you see them in public, addressing them as they are a typical person, because a lot of them are really typical, mentally.

[00:01:31] Maybe they have physical limitations, but a lot of them they can answer yes or no, and even if they can’t, they should still be addressed. And maybe listening to podcasts that are like this or listening to other people talk about their special needs, we’ll say special needs or handicapped child.

[00:01:47] To me, I’m not offended by either. Some people are offended by certain terms. special needs or handicapped. It doesn’t make a difference to me as far as Cameron. But even if the child has a mental [00:02:00] disability, you can still say hello and definitely teach your children about children like mine, because that’s where it comes from.

[00:02:08] The parents have got to teach their own children about children that are like mine. 

[00:02:13] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think that often we just aren’t sure, you know, how we should be interacting with children or adults that have special needs. And I think that we need to remember that they are people too. They have feelings, they have emotions, they have thoughts that maybe are a little bit different, but they are human too. And, and we can interact with them in the way, like you said, we would anyone else. 

[00:02:41] Penney Day: Absolutely. And when you do that, you see that they are amazing human beings.

[00:02:48] They live in a bubble of just happiness. They don’t know the stresses of life that we do and they’re just amazing. So if you actually take the time, and I know you know Cameron a little bit, but if you take the [00:03:00] time to get to know the children, I say children, but Cameron, she’s 26, so she’s an adult.

[00:03:05] You take the time to get to know them. They’re amazing human beings and they can really open up your eyes and make you see life in a different way. And it’s amazing if people take the time. 

[00:03:17] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, That’s awesome. Thank you for sharing that. So let’s talk about what was your pregnancy like? Did you know during your pregnancy that your child was going to be born with some of these handicaps and disabilities, or was it something that you didn’t discover until after she was born?

[00:03:37] did you have any complications during pregnancy? 

[00:03:40] Penney Day: In my case, I knew. At the time that I had Cameron, in 1996, the doctor that I had at that time did not do an ultrasound until I was 27 weeks pregnant. And I knew my dates were right because my husband and I at that time had planned to have Cameron. I knew my dates were right, but when he did the ultrasound, she was [00:04:00] seven weeks smaller than she should have been.

[00:04:04] So she was failure to thrive in utero. Hmm. So she was proportionate and at that time, that 27 weeks, the only thing that you can do is just continue to carry the child. And we didn’t really know how much more she was gonna grow or what the outcome was gonna be. So I carried her 36 weeks and then she went into fetal distress.

[00:04:26] Hmm. Which was really hard because I knew those last nine weeks that there was something wrong. And I really just had to, for one feel for movement. And make sure she was still alive, which was hard. So then finally at the 36 weeks, she stopped moving and I went in to the doctor and right away he said, well we’re, you’ve gotta go to the hospital right now.

[00:04:50] And within a couple hours they had delivered her emergency C-section, which was frightening. The nurses were frightened. It [00:05:00] was just a very frightening experience, and it turned out that she was three pounds, three ounces at 36 weeks, so she wasn’t full gestation, but she’s not considered a preemie because she was 36 weeks.

[00:05:12] She went right into the NICU and I did not see her. I didn’t see her maybe for a couple days because I was in a recovery, so they sent up a picture to show me that she was okay, that she was alive, and that was hard. 

[00:05:27] Desiree Stanley: I, I can’t even imagine what that must feel like? Just the stress and the worry about, is my child okay?

[00:05:35] Am I gonna be okay? And, that’s just got to be a really, really difficult time and I imagine that it was for you. So while she was in NICU, you said that they sent you photos that you knew she was okay. At what point was she stable enough that you could see her? 

[00:05:56] Penney Day: They never brought her to my room.

[00:05:59] I [00:06:00] eventually had to go down to the NICU. She just couldn’t be out of the incubator. It probably took me at least a day to make a recovery to where I could get up to where they could take me down. And she was in there for three weeks. Just connected to every machines that they can possibly put on them and a little warmer.

[00:06:18] A little tiny warmer. So she was three pounds, three ounces. And the most amazing thing about being there at that time was there was a micro preemie there, a little boy. And at that time there was not a lot of micro preemies and that, so that was amazing to actually, to see them also with the parents there trying to get this little boy to thrive at the same time that I’m trying to get my daughter to thrive.

[00:06:42] It ended up that she had a little jaundice, which was easy to take care of but also then started having seizures. So she was put on seizure medication and it’s amazing experience there and it is frightening. I will say this, but it’s kind of amazing. They really encourage you to hold your child, no matter how tiny they [00:07:00] are.

[00:07:00] The NICU nurses move the baby into your arms and then into the father’s arms and you hold the child. And I remember I was constantly pumping breast milk because that’s the most important thing for the babies at that time, is to get the actual breast milk. So constantly pumping, even though I couldn’t feed her, it was pumping, pumping.

[00:07:18] So she made it home after three weeks. They did release her home at three and a half pounds, 15 inches. So she was very tiny. She came home on a Phenobarbital, which is a seizure medication. I don’t know how often they use that anymore. And she also had an NG tube was for feeding because she just couldn’t get the calories in. Right away in the state of California, when you have a child that has some sort of disability like this, the state steps right in and they start to offer you support services that you need. So I knew that when I got home I was gonna have a nurse and she was going to come probably once a week.

[00:07:59] [00:08:00] Especially to change out the NG tube. If you don’t know what an NG tube is, it’s a feeding tube, but it goes in the child’s nose. So you know, the child can grab it, pull it out, which she did. I would call my nurse to put it back in. I was never comfortable changing an NG tube because you can pass it into the lungs. And then pneumonia. So every time, would come out. I would call a nurse and I had the same nurse. Her name was Braedwyn, and I’ll never forget her, and she would come and she would put this tube back in. We were also on heart monitor at that time. It was a lot of wires and things like that.

[00:08:32] It was very challenging. Cameron did not sleep probably for years, I’ll say years, because I don’t remember the actual time that she really started sleeping. But she was having what is called infantile spasms. They are just quick spasms in the body. They can have like 50 spasms at a time and then they stop and then they start again.

[00:08:50] But that was not diagnosed until she was about seven or eight months. The doctors thought she was having colic and she just wouldn’t sleep. It turned out she was actually [00:09:00] having seizures the whole time. And not until they turned into a bigger seizure could they tell that that’s what it was. So she didn’t sleep through any of that because she was constantly having seizures.

[00:09:11] I would just rock her pretty much all night, anything to try to sooth her, just where she would close her eyes and maybe sleep for a little bit. I slept with my arm on top of her. They didn’t have weighted blankets at that time. They do now. So I would sleep with my arm on her to try to get these seizures to subside to where she could sleep and then I could sleep.

[00:09:29] It was very challenging. I’m gonna say that the first five years were really challenging. And I know we’re, we’re not at age five yet, we’re only at the infant age. But it was a really hard time trying to control these infantile spasms, no medication was working, the only thing that we could do was try a medication that was not FDA approved and we would go to Canada.

[00:09:56] Desiree Stanley: Wow. 

[00:09:57] Penney Day: So we flew to Canada. And [00:10:00] we went to the children’s hospital and we got a medication, I think it was called Vigabatrin. And we came back and we started that medication and it didn’t work. Hmm. So now we’re 10 months and we’re still having seizures at only weighing about 10 pounds at that time.

[00:10:17] Thank God I had the nurse because I then had to start giving her ACTH injections into, into her thigh. Intermuscular injections, which that was very, very scary. My nurse came and did it for me for a while, but then she said, you need to learn how to do this because every time I come, she’s asleep and you can give it to her at home.

[00:10:40] She’ll be awake. I practiced on an orange and I practice just, getting it in there and then you inject it under the thigh, the thigh of a 10 pound baby. Very small. And it was really hard. And so I’d call my mom and my mom would come over and she’d sit on the sofa and she would say, what do you need me to do?

[00:10:59] I just want you to [00:11:00] sit there, mom, just sit there while I do this. And she would sit there and sure enough, I gave her those injections for six weeks and it stopped her seizures. Hmm. So as hard as it was it was a blessing. As hard as it was, you know, it did make me stronger at the same time.

[00:11:15] So that was good. We got that under control and then it just became a question of feeding, because she still had an NG tube. She wasn’t getting enough food. I think at about one year old, they decided to put a G-tube in. So they would go into the stomach now, and that’s a little peg and it goes straight into the stomach.

[00:11:36] She got that when she was one, and that was a disaster. I know. I have to be honest though, it was a disaster. They put it in, but they did not close off the valve that would cause her to throw up. So the milk would go in and she would just throw it right up. And I told them, that she’s just throwing it [00:12:00] up.

[00:12:00] We had to go back and do it again. So we went back in when she was about a year and three months, they went back and did it. They replaced it and then closed off the valve so that she could not throw up the formula. We’re on a feeding pump for a long time. So it was me, her, and the pump walking around the house.

[00:12:16] She was constantly fed but at a very slow rate. And eventually, she stopped throwing up and she started to thrive and get bigger. It was probably around, maybe by the time she was two. And even though you know she was two, she still only looked maybe one year old, just very small. Still failure to thrive even out of utero.

[00:12:37] Desiree Stanley: Well, that is just so much, I mean, the challenge of handling that seems just almost insurmountable. And thank you for sharing that first year. Also talking about the fact that you did have some support systems and if you could share how did, and I know you’re now not in [00:13:00] California, so the states are different.

[00:13:02] They handle things differently. So when you were in California, how did you get in touch with the people of the state that offer those supports the nurse, like you said, to really help

[00:13:14] Penney Day: You know, they find you. Mm, they find you straight from the hospital. You’re offered support. So it’s even more challenging if you have a child that looks to be a typical child at birth, but then turns out not to be because you have to fight harder for services.

[00:13:28] Mm. But they already knew that we were gonna have problems. Right away we were starting services. We got nursing, we got therapy. She was very sensitive to touch, texture, we had occupational therapy. We had some physical therapy, which was mostly, stretching and range of motion and stuff at that time.

[00:13:47] And then when she turned probably two, we went into an infant toddler program in Santa Clara where there was mothers [00:14:00] just like me with children similar to mine. And you would stay with your child in the infant toddler program. And I met amazing people there. Actually, one of the mothers that I met there now lives in Arizona with her daughter out here too.

[00:14:16] Mm-hmm. So that’s amazing. We moved and then they moved out here, but we ended up right in this infant toddler program, where they, work on sign language, just people skills, communication skills, all these different kind of things. So we did that until we moved out here to Arizona and when we moved, I’m trying to remember.

[00:14:38] I think that I called into the state to figure out how to start services once we moved. We came without services. It’s called, out in Arizona, the Department of Developmental Disabilities. I filled out paperwork and all medical history for Cameron, and they sent a case worker out to the house.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] They have to approve the application through the state and then they start services here. And you so I’m not sure about California. It’s probably fairly similar. So we started physical therapy, occupational therapy, and all the therapies out here. We had people come into the home to do therapy.

[00:15:17] We did not have a nurse after the, the seizure injections. We did not need a nurse anymore. I just did everything myself. I changed the G-tube and everything myself. Didn’t need a nurse here, we’ve never had a nurse out in Arizona, but we do get all the other services.

[00:15:33] And here they have something called Children’s Rehabilitative Services, which is more therapies. It’s also run by the state, but it supplies wheelchairs and bath chairs and those kind of things that you need in your home. Once your child gets to be a certain age, they require those things.

[00:15:50] Desiree Stanley: right.

[00:15:51] Penney Day: The transition was not too bad, but at that time she was still just barely three. We still weren’t really sleeping.[00:16:00] I stayed home with her. I stayed home with her for 10 years and I would just rock her all day pretty much. It was pretty, it was a lonely, it was pretty lonely time until I met the parents, because when she was just an infant, I cut out everybody except my family because I couldn’t, I couldn’t answer questions.

[00:16:17] I couldn’t deal with the situation with just minimal people around me. So when I moved out here, it was like that. At first I didn’t know anybody, we came out here because the financial situation in the Bay Area, knowing we were gonna be a single income family. And Cameron’s dad, he had been out here before he went to school out here and he said, we can move there, we’ll be okay there.

[00:16:41] It’s much cheaper. So that’s why we came to Arizona. 

[00:16:45] She then got involved with the foundation for blind Children, because Cameron has also a vision diagnosis. She has so many things, so she has cortical visual impairment, [00:17:00] which is legally blind. She can see, but her brain does not make the connection of what she’s seeing.

[00:17:06] It doesn’t transfer in her brain. She has gray matter in her brain, which prevents the eyes from making all the connections. And then she has a thinning membrane, which is the corpus callosum, which is the membrane that runs down the middle of your body so things don’t transmit over to the left and over to the right.

[00:17:26] So aside from the vision, the gray matter in the brain causes I, I don’t wanna say mental retardation because I don’t like that word, it’s not a good word anymore, but it causes her to be slow, to not be able to communicate as quickly, because she can communicate, and her to not be able to move her body as quickly.

[00:17:49] So that’s part of her diagnosis is that, along with the cerebral palsy, cause it’s all kind of combined. We ended up with the Foundation for Blind Children where we got [00:18:00] even more therapy, but where she was actually put into a preschool, so the bus would come and pick her up, and then the bus would drop her off.

[00:18:08] For the first three months, I wouldn’t let her ride the bus. I drove her and then I stayed there. And boy, she screamed and screamed and screamed. And I sat there crying and crying and crying. And then finally they said, you know, she’s screaming anyway. Why don’t you just go? Why don’t you go? So I got in my car crying and I drove myself straight to the gym.

[00:18:30] Yes. I had gone to the gym when I was pregnant. I didn’t say this at the beginning. I had gone to the gym up till I was five months. And they told me, no more exercise. You have to stop. So I stopped. So I knew there was an outlet for me already, sports and working out. So I drove myself to the gym and I, I never stopped.

[00:18:49] When she was old enough, I would bring her with me. She would go in the kids club. I think it was around five when I started bringing her into the kids club. The preschool basically saved my [00:19:00] life, I would say. It really opened me up to new opportunities for myself to meet people. I met a group of friends, a wonderful group ladies at the gym.

[00:19:08] There was around 12 of them, and they really took me in and we started playing bunko and going to lunch and doing the things that I should have been doing. But I didn’t have any friends here, and I finally did. That was just an amazing experience and. She was about five and she is 26 now.

[00:19:26] And I’m still at the gym. I’m still at the same gym. I work there now. I’ve been working there 16 years. I just never stopped. Mm-hmm. And it’s been a blessing. It really is a blessing. 

[00:19:36] Desiree Stanley: Well, I wanna talk a little bit about what you said specifically related to finding groups and organizations that can help you.

[00:19:47] And it sounds like it was really difficult for you to let go of her initially just because you were there the whole time, always with her. And so it sounds like [00:20:00] there was that point where you just couldn’t quite let go yet until they said it’s gonna be okay. Right. And I think that’s kind of a lifesaver where organizations like that and, and groups and schools that can really take the child because they know how to help the child to develop and grow and give you the space to go take care of yourself.

[00:20:25] Penney Day: That’s right. 

[00:20:25] Desiree Stanley: And it really sounds like at that point you were able to do that and begin to have some time for yourself to take care of yourself. And I’ve had some other guests on the show and we always talk about. You can’t give to others when you have nothing left in yourself. You know, if you’ve given every ounce and you’ve not given yourself a chance to, have some time alone, get some self-care, get some rest, you can’t continue in that way.

[00:20:54] And so it kind of sounds like you really got to a point and now you could, take care of [00:21:00] yourself too, right? 

[00:21:01] Penney Day: That’s right. And , even as I go through just certain times in her life where the times may be more challenging, more years more challenging than others, where I fall down to the end of the list and it really takes somebody to come in and this, it could be just a girlfriend and just say, look.

[00:21:23] You gotta get yourself back on top. You can’t let this run your life. You can’t be depressed. You have to just, you gotta get up, you gotta take a shower, you gotta get out, you gotta go to the gym. You have to take the time. You have to put yourself back on top. You need to sleep when she sleeps. You need to rest when she rests because if you don’t, even at 26 years now, if I don’t, I can’t function. I’ll give you an example. Last night she went to bed early, let’s say 5:30. So I went and laid down, read my book, 7:30 I finally decided, [00:22:00] okay, I better go to sleep. And I wasn’t tired, it was really hard. It was kind of hard to go to sleep, but she was up at 3:15 this morning.

[00:22:08] So I’m up at 3:15 cuz she drinks coffee now. We’re making coffee. I know. We’re making coffee. She’s listening to, she loves YouTube. She loves Pitbull, we’re going, my day starts when she gets up. There is no, I’m gonna have coffee by myself and just read a book. That doesn’t happen.

[00:22:26] So I’ve been up since 3:15 this morning and I didn’t sleep, particularly well last night. I put her on the bus at seven. I go to work. I’m now home. I’m in between jobs. As soon as we are done, I will go to my other job and I will work until she gets home from school. And then we start again. I say school, but it’s a day program now because she’s 26.

[00:22:46] And then we start again. So I know she’s been up since 3:15, tonight guess what? She’s gonna go to bed 5, 5:30. Who’s gonna have to go to bed too? Me, because if I don’t, then the next day I’m [00:23:00] even more tired and it really drags. You know, when you’re tired like this and this fatigue, this mental fatigue it causes depression, it causes anxiety just from being extremely tired.

[00:23:11] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. 

[00:23:12] Penney Day: So I have put myself on, we’d say the infant program, and I’ve kind of tried to stay on that is when she’s sleeping, I have to sleep because when she’s awake, I’m going, that’s been a saving grace for me actually, is that’s what keeps me on top of my game and know that I’m taking care of myself because I cannot go to bed at 10 or 11 at night and be up at three and on my game I can’t.

[00:23:35] So that’s how I, aside from the gym and working out, cause that’s my job now too, that’s how I keep myself on the top, make myself a priority. Go to sleep. I will turn my phone on complete silence. No one can call me. No one can contact me at about 5:30, but it’s the only thing that helps me take care of myself so that I can take care of her.

[00:23:54] Desiree Stanley: You really had to make that decision, this just has to be this way [00:24:00] in order for me to, to give. What I have, I’ve got to go to sleep and I know they, they tell us all the time, like sleep when the baby sleeps or you know, nap when the baby naps. And we have so many other things that we have to do it’s like we have to prioritize and say, all right, I know the laundry needs to be done, but I’ve got to get some sleep first.

[00:24:26] I can do the laundry later. Even if it’s two days later, right? it’ll get done eventually, but this is more important right now. And it sounds like that decision and going that direction, has made a difference for you. 

[00:24:40] Penney Day: It has, and I will say this, I don’t really wanna talk about much about my past marriage, but it was very hard to do that.

[00:24:48] He wanted me to stay awake longer, kind of. Entertain him, let’s just say. It just wasn’t working for me. And [00:25:00] I’m not saying that’s why I’m divorced, but I had to make a choice and say, look, it’s gonna be me over you and I have to go to sleep. I really had to start the last five years cause I was married for 10 years, I had to start over the last five years to put myself back into that position. And it was very hard when you have someone who’s depending on you to cook dinner and be entertainment or whatever you wanna call it. You tend to, you wanna do that, but you know, you should be sleeping.

[00:25:29] And I really had to take a step back and just say, I can’t, I can’t do this. You know, it’s nine o’clock at night, I’m still awake. She could be up at three. I have to go to sleep. And I just, I had, I had to change my whole life and I did. I changed my whole life and it was hard. Everything about it was hard, but I had to change my whole life again to get myself back to where I was, number one, so I could care for number two and that’s important.

[00:25:54] Desiree Stanley: And that presents a set of challenges, right? Where, yes, it’s difficult when you’ve [00:26:00] got maybe a partner who’s not as supportive or as helpful but when you then are separate and you are single, and now it is truly 100% you.

[00:26:10] However, like you pointed out, it did also make some things a little bit easier. So let’s talk about what changed after you split up. Was there more support after that? 

[00:26:25] Penney Day: No. I, no, I mean, but I didn’t need it. Mm-hmm. I don’t, I felt like I didn’t really need it. Like with Cameron’s dad. Cameron’s dad and I just kind of grew apart.

[00:26:36] We were together for 17 years and we just kind of grew apart. She sees her dad every other weekend. He’s an amazing father for her. But it was still me, 99% of the care. Going into a second marriage, it was me again, 99% of the care. So me actually walking out of a second marriage, it helped me.

[00:26:54] It didn’t make anything more challenging for me. I. Knew what was coming and I set myself [00:27:00] up for certain things to know that I have to be able to take care of myself financially. I have to be able to take care of Cameron financially, and then I have a stepdaughter and a granddaughter, and they’re gonna need my help too.

[00:27:11] So I had set myself up and I knew what I was doing, and I knew that it was the only way that I was gonna thrive and get Cameron back, thriving again because she wasn’t doing so well the last couple years of my marriage. I don’t know if she was trying to send me a signal, but a lot of screaming, a lot of tantrums.

[00:27:28] A lot. A lot. A lot. Mm-hmm. And she doesn’t have them anymore, ever. So she could have been trying to tell me something. 

[00:27:37] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, it sounds like there probably was the energy, like she could feel the energy and the maybe the unhappiness of the situation. Yeah. That’s what she was reacting to, it sounds like.

[00:27:50] Penney Day: Yes. The stress, the arguing at that time, I guess I just didn’t think that it was affecting her. We’ve been divorced three years in hindsight, now I realize it was just so [00:28:00] chaotic. And I don’t think her brain could compute what’s going on.

[00:28:03] She couldn’t tell me, mom, you gotta go, mom. Mm-hmm. But I finally got it. And I figured it out. And I do, I work a lot. I work two jobs. Plus I decide to keep her at home and so I work full-time for a caregiving company because I choose to keep her at home versus put her in a group home.

[00:28:23] I don’t wanna do that. Not yet. I could still care for her. My, my agreement with her, even though she might not know it, was that I would care for her at home as long as I possibly could. And when I get too old and I can’t do it, then things might be different. But I find the group homes are not necessarily the best place for someone like Cameron.

[00:28:39] So I get paid to care for her at home 40 hours a week. And then I work two jobs on the side. And I get by, I do better than get by. , I have enough money to do the things that I need to do, the things that I wanna do, buy the things that I need to buy. And I’m not saying I buy an excess because I don’t, , but I pay for her van and I pay for my home.

[00:28:58] And together we’re [00:29:00] just a team. It’s just her and I, we’re just a team. It’s just what it is. 

[00:29:03] Desiree Stanley: you brought up a good point there about right now you are caring for her at home and that, you know, sometime in the future that may not be the case. So is that something that you’ve begun putting a plan in place?

[00:29:19] Have you thought about what’s going to happen when you get to the point that you cannot care for her? 

[00:29:24] Penney Day: I have, because I have other mothers who are in the same situation and we have some similar kids and we have talked about putting them all in one group home so that each mom can take a time to go over and check on the children.

[00:29:36] And we know that they’re children of likes. As far as maybe not grabbing, hitting, screaming, because she has been attacked twice in a day program. By a child that has behavior issues, and so I cannot have her around a child that has behaviors. So we have talked about that kind of stuff.

[00:29:55] And the last mom that I talked to, she said she’s not ready yet. And I, I’m not [00:30:00] really ready yet because I did, we did think about it right after Covid or maybe during, where the opportunity came up where we could have four them together. And I struggled and I cried and I cried and I cried. And I said, you know, if you’re crying this much, there’s your answer, your answer’s no.

[00:30:15] Your answer is just that you’re not ready. So, yes, I’ve thought about it. I’m not ready to do it. I can still care for her. I do use things to, to care for her. I have a Hoyer, my other equipment, I don’t pick her up anymore. She’s 132 pounds. She’s probably almost as tall as me. I am strong.

[00:30:32] I can still take care of her, but I do miss freedom. That I could possibly have to go on vacations and things like this. I just went on, as, you know, my first vacation in 26 years. And that took some organizing with her dad because her dad took her and probably is part of me, I’ve never asked before, so I have to own that part.

[00:30:54] I’m not a person that asks for help regularly. I’m stubborn. But I did finally [00:31:00] decide, after 26 years, it was time for me to take a break, especially after going through Covid, being home with her for that extended period of time. I knew that, you know, it’s time, it’s time for me.

[00:31:09] Again, it’s more, it’s me taking care of myself and saying, you gotta take a break. you gotta de- stress. He gets six weeks paid a year. So he said, I’ll take a week off work. And he doesn’t really have to do much anyway because she’s in a day program, so the bus picks her up at seven, drops her off at three, which she loves going, and it worked out great and I will be doing it again soon, I hope.

[00:31:32] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, well, congratulations on that, and I am so thrilled and I was following along on your journey of your vacation and where you went, and it looked amazing, and I’m so proud of you for finally, you know, making that decision that you needed to say, I need some time for me and I need to just step away.

[00:31:53] And so congratulations for doing that finally for yourself. I love it. I wanna talk a little bit [00:32:00] about something that you mentioned that lifts her. You, gave a name and I don’t recall what, 

[00:32:05] Penney Day: it’s a Hoyer. 

[00:32:06] Desiree Stanley: So this is some kind of machine that uses to lift her out of her wheelchair. 

[00:32:10] Penney Day: A cherry picker.

[00:32:12] Desiree Stanley: Okay, that’s a good image. I know what that is. Okay, 

[00:32:16] Penney Day: so basically she sits on a sling all day and this contraption hooks up to the sling and then you pump it with hydraulic and it lifts her out of her chair, and then you pivot it and puts her in bed. 

[00:32:27] Desiree Stanley: Got it. So that’s something else that you obviously learned about after years of just doing this yourself, just picking her up yourself and moving her from place to place and how was it that you learned about that?

[00:32:42] Was it one of the resources that was shared with you or is it something that you had to look into? 

[00:32:48] Penney Day: No, it’s actually kind of funny because, you know, we see a lot of specialists and you deal with the ones that fit the wheelchairs and they said, you know, we gotta order you this. I was probably like 47, we’re gonna order this for [00:33:00] you. And I’m like, well, I’m not gonna use it. And I said, that’s fine. So they ordered it, , I didn’t have a choice. They’re like, no, we’re ordering with you. And I put it in the garage.

[00:33:07] I said, I’m not using that until I turned 50. But then over Covid, with her being home with me for probably two to three months. I got exhausted. She is 132 pounds, and I was like, I gotta get the Hoyer out. So I got the Hoyer out of the garage. I dusted it off and I watched the YouTube video and I started using it.

[00:33:26] It does take a little bit longer versus just scooping her out of her narrower bed and put her in a wheelchair. It takes a little bit longer, but it saves my back. So now I’m a whiz at it. Just sling her right up, pump her up, put her in her, her chair and take her back out.

[00:33:39] Really, they were right, they were right to order it for me because I probably would never have ordered it myself cuz you know, I’m too strong. I don’t need a Hoyer, what are you talking about? , but it’s amazing. Yeah, it’s amazing. 

[00:33:49] Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s great though.

[00:33:51] It sounds like you finally recognize that this is a tool for your benefit and there’s nothing wrong in using it. And it’s actually [00:34:00] going to help you in the long term so that you can be physically able to care for her for a longer period of time because you’re not gonna throw your back out or whatever the case may be.

[00:34:11] So I think that that’s important that we recognize when, when we need to use the tools that are there for us, right? 

[00:34:17] Penney Day: Right. That was easy to get because they ordered that for me, that was covered. Every piece of equipment that we have has been covered by the state minus a wheelchair van.

[00:34:27] They do not cover wheelchair vans, so that is something that’s really hard for some parents to get because they’re very expensive, extremely expensive. I was lucky and I was able to get one. I’m on my second one right now because we got an accident, but I’m on my second one. And that thing also, it’s just a lifesaving piece of equipment for us parents, you just ramp it right up. You just ramp ’em right in there and. Hatch ’em down in their chair and off you go. So we’ve gone many places. I’ve taken her to Southern California. I’ve taken her to Northern California. [00:35:00] I’ve taken her to Nevada.

[00:35:02] I’ve taken her lots of places and I can still do it in a car, in my van. So that’s not too bad. Flying is a whole different issue because she is so big. But we haven’t been on a plane in a while. When she was smaller, we would fly back and forth between. Northern California and Arizona, but she’s quite a bit bigger now, so that’s a little bit more of a challenge.

[00:35:20] But boy, that car, I’ve had nightmares that I’ve lost that car. 

[00:35:24] Desiree Stanley: Oh my gosh. 

[00:35:24] Penney Day: That’s how important, that’s how important those those vehicles are. I wish that they would make them more accessible to maybe the parents who can’t afford to get them, but find them a way where they can get them, you know, get a little more help from the state.

[00:35:37] Desiree Stanley: Well, thank you for sharing that. And I remember a story that I’d like to, you know, have you expand on a little bit. You were talking about parking in a designated handicapped spot that had the space so that you could get the wheelchair out of your van. However, what happened?

[00:35:56] Penney Day: Well, numerous things have happened actually in parking lots, [00:36:00] and one of the things is that people leave their shopping carts there, we’re talking about the parking lots, where they have the strips where you’re not supposed to park, where some people put their electric carts that they use at the grocery store or just manual carts and also some people park in those spots and you can’t get your door open. There’s also and, a lot of people I don’t think realize this.

[00:36:25] There’s two different kinds of handicapped. Spots out here there is, I’m not really sure. I’m sure they vary from state to state, but one of the signs will say handicapped for vans and it offers more space on each side. And then one of them just says handicap, which could be just for a car that doesn’t have a ramp that opens out to the left or the right.

[00:36:45] So there’s actually two different kinds and a lot of times people in cars park in the handicap spots that are vans that have side entry. So we have gotten stuck. Numerous times, and actually we just got stuck. We were in [00:37:00] Scottsdale and I took her into the shop and I came back out and someone had their car in the striped spot so I could not open my door.

[00:37:08] And it was a it was a big Escalade and a boy just so happened to walk to that car and I said, You need to move your car. I can’t get into my car with my daughter because you’re parked in a spot that’s not a parking spot. Are you the driver? And he said, no, I’m not the driver. And I said, well, this is not a parking spot.

[00:37:31] And I was trying to be as nice as I could be just, but my blood pressure is probably through the roof. And he backed the car out and he parked behind other cars where they were now stuck, but he didn’t leave the vehicle. And then he said he was sorry. And I said, okay, thank you. But those are not parking spots.

[00:37:52] And thank God he was there when I came out because I could have been there all day or I would’ve had to move my car. I’ve had to do this many times back my [00:38:00] car into the parking lot to open the door and then put her in because people are blocking those spots and I don’t know if it’s that they’re not aware or that they just don’t care.

[00:38:12] I don’t know, but it does happen quite a bit. 

[00:38:16] Desiree Stanley: Well, thank you for expanding a little bit because I didn’t realize that there were two different kinds of handicapped spots, but it makes sense and you know, I did want to bring that up so that people recognize that really, truly, that is designated for a reason. Don’t put your carts there. Don’t put the electric scooters there. Don’t park in those spots. There really truly is a reason that those white lines are painted there, and that’s to allow people such as yourself who have children that. , have equipment that need to be put into the van a certain way and don’t park there.

[00:38:52] Penney Day: So yes, and it can be extremely frustrating and I manage to work my way around it, but it can be [00:39:00] extremely frustrating and I don’t know. Sometimes I just, I just have to shake my head and move on. 

[00:39:05] Desiree Stanley: Right. And you know what, I think that that’s great that, you were able to manage to keep your temper down.

[00:39:11] Because after years of those kind of things happening, I could see that it would be incredibly frustrating and very easy to lose your temper so that you manage to not do that is. Is good on you because it’s really inconsiderate and thoughtless. So, I hope that the listeners will take away if nothing else, if you see somebody let them know or , remember not to park there, just, you know, share that knowledge with other people.

[00:39:42] So I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about some of the things that you’re doing with Cameron in these last few years. You had shared with me that she has been involved in an organization that’s 2gether we live, right? 

[00:39:58] Penney Day: Correct. 

[00:39:59] Desiree Stanley: [00:40:00] And tell us about that. What is that? 

[00:40:01] Penney Day: Well, it started out as Best buddies was what it was called, where they pair your child up with a buddy and We were paired up with Paul McGowen for a running team.

[00:40:13] He was gonna take her running around Tempe Town Lake. So at this time they were still Best buddies. This was about seven years ago. And I’d never really been into Tempe, but I loaded her up and he said, I’d like to take her for, a run around the lake.

[00:40:27] And I was, okay, little nervous about it, but she had great time. She had a great time. So from Best Buddies, it now is 2gether we live and it’s run by Tim Bolen and he does an amazing job of pulling in the athletes and the supporting athletes and they run marathons, half marathons, 10Ks, 5Ks, whatever, whatever the child or adult child can handle, and enjoys.

[00:40:58] They also do [00:41:00] triathlons. So put the kids in rafts and they will swim with the kids in rafts, get out, and then they get ’em on a bike and then, then they run. Whatever the child can handle. We started that about seven years ago and we started with Paul. And Paul then teamed up with Daniel.

[00:41:20] Now she has two. So she’s Team Cameron with Paul and Daniel. There are other support athletes though, that have pushed her just depending on everybody’s schedule and it’s great. I’ve met so many parents now because it’s a huge team. Now. I’m sure you’ve seen the pictures started out as a small team.

[00:41:37] It’s a huge team. It’s just amazing all these runners that come out and volunteer their time, to push our kids around the lake. And I they love it. Cameron loves it. And you know, I’m so glad that I got involved in that because it, it really has [00:42:00] changed my life. I drive to these places now for these races and yes, I do get anxiety like PF Chang.

[00:42:05] Ooh, that’s a big race. One time I lost my car in Tempe. Yeah. Yeah. But I go to all these different places. I go to Mace, I go to Tempe, I go to all these, I would never do this before. I would never do this kind of thing. So it’s just great. And that parents, there’s so many parents, we’re all in the same situation.

[00:42:23] We’re all in like situations and we can talk about, the different things that are going on with our kids, because most of us don’t run with our children. Even on practice runs, most of us. Sit and talk with other parents, and I could, I could run with Cameron, but I have a couple times I did a PF Chang.

[00:42:40] I think the most I did was a 10k with her. But I just decided that I want her to not be doing something with me, to be doing something that she can do without me. That she’s comfortable. She loves these guys. She loves it. And I’m so glad. And like I said, it’s been seven, or eight years now that we’ve been doing it.[00:43:00] 

[00:43:00] And it’s opened up a whole new world for me and it’s amazing. 

[00:43:03] Desiree Stanley: So I wanna ask you, is that organization just strictly in that, , Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa area, or do they have that organization throughout the states? 

[00:43:14] Penney Day: Well, this is only Arizona and it kind of just depends on how far.

[00:43:20] The parents wanna travel. It is based mostly out of Tempe, so I’m one of the farthest ones probably, but you know, that drives out to Tempe, but it’s just Arizona and it’s a nonprofit organization, so it’s based on donations. And with donations we’ve been able to get numerous running chairs. They’re very expensive, so we have quite a few running chairs now, and it really is solely based on donations.

[00:43:49] And Timothy Bowlen, the one who who started it and you see him on, on Facebook really pushes to get the word out [00:44:00] and to let people know that, hey, we exist. And inclusivity you know, inclusion. It matters. And a lot of the companies are pretty good about. Having the wheelchair athletes out there, they usually start ’em, not all the time, but some of ’em, they’ll start ’em at the beginning of the start line to make it a little easier.

[00:44:20] They give ’em a little extra time. Most of ’em are really, really great about it and for the most part, the other competitors and then runners. And I’ve never heard anyone complain that our children are out there. So it’s really a blessing and if you haven’t ever looked at it or shared it, it’s, it is one of those things that really needs to be shared.

[00:44:39] Desiree Stanley: For sure, and it sounds like such a wonderful experience for the kids because it’s like a freedom that they get to experience that they don’t normally get to experience, right? As you said, they’re put on rafts and they are gliding through the water and you know, they may never have had that ex.

[00:44:58] Experience without an organization [00:45:00] like this and the athletes who are willing to train and race with them like this. And I think that’s fantastic and I’d love to share the group and the organization in the show notes. So if anyone wants to take a look at that. And , if they feel so moved to donate to help, then , that would be amazing too.

[00:45:19] And I’m sure there are organizations like it in other states, I would imagine that there are groups elsewhere that do this kind of thing, but what an amazing opportunity for the kids to experience something that’s so freeing. 

[00:45:36] Penney Day: Yeah, it really is. And I, I did used to run with Cameron when she was younger and smaller and maybe she was around three, four or five. I had a little jogger stroller and we run around the neighborhood. But this, that’s by myself. You know, this is a whole different ballgame. And these kids are out there and they’re in the wind and sometimes it’s really cold and they’re running fast and they’re cycling fast and yeah.

[00:45:59] And we even [00:46:00] have some of them that walk, but, but of course they can’t run. So they’re gonna, they’re in a chair and they’re being pushed and they love it. Yeah, it’s freeing for their bodies, 

[00:46:10] Desiree Stanley: of course. And again, it just goes back to show that they feel emotions and excitement and things just like regular people do.

[00:46:19] They’re experiencing those things just like we do. 

[00:46:22] Penney Day: That’s right. 

[00:46:24] Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Well, Penney, I have so enjoyed this time that we’ve had together and you sharing your experience and your journey and sharing with us some important things to remember. So thank you again for that. But I wanna close out by asking you if there’s any books that you’ve read or are reading now, or maybe podcasts that you could recommend that the listeners take a look at that would be beneficial to them.

[00:46:51] Penney Day: we as caregivers, paid caregivers for our children have to do continuing education. And there are certain [00:47:00] movies that you can watch, like The Peanut Butter Falcon. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, but that’s a movie that you can watch. The Fundamentals of Caregiving. Amazing movie.

[00:47:09] And both of them were out maybe on Netflix. We also have something called Article nine that dealt with, Geraldo Rivera in upstate New York, went into this facility when they were putting children in facilities at that time who uncovered abuse and neglect and things like that. But it really struck me as horrible and just thank God, thank God somebody went and saw this and they fixed it. And each state has their own laws of how you can and cannot treat a human being disabled otherwise. So that’s really important video and. Other than that, I don’t really listen to podcasts that have anything to do about, you know, Cameron or anything like [00:48:00] that. Groups. I kind of stick within my groups of, the people that I already know. But those two movies definitely should watch. And then if you can look up the video, I think that the people who actually watched this video would be absolutely astonished at the behavior.

[00:48:18] That was going on and how these children were treated through the years and it’s just horrible. And I thank God that I didn’t have Cameron until after institutions, and that’s a really important one. 

[00:48:31] Desiree Stanley: Thank you for that. Well, thank you for sharing those those other two movies with us as well.

[00:48:37] And I’ll include all of that in the show notes so others can check that out. I appreciate that very much because I think it’s important that, , even if we maybe aren’t in that situation ourself with our own children, but just to understand and you know, be aware of what is happening to other people and have a little bit more empathy.

[00:48:59] For the [00:49:00] situation I think is always a good thing. So thank you again for sharing that, and thank you again for your time and sharing your experiences with us. I so appreciate you coming on today, Penney. Thank you. 

[00:49:11] Penney Day: You’re welcome, Des. Thank you for having me. 

[00:49:14] Desiree Stanley: Of course. And we’ll talk soon. 

[00:49:16] Penney Day: Okay. All right. Bye.

[00:49:18] Desiree Stanley: Bye. 

Episode 35 Jackie Lawrence_05_23_2023 Transcript:

Desiree Stanley: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to the Pockets of Knowledge podcast. I’m your host, Desiree Stanley, and with me today is my guest, Jackie Lawrence. Welcome to the show, Jackie. I’m so excited to have you on. We’re gonna be touching on some really great topics, and I am so thrilled that you’re here. Thank you for coming.

Jackie Lawrence: Thank you so much for inviting me on. It’s an honor to be here, 

Desiree Stanley: I, actually heard of Jackie on another podcast, and I was so interested in the topics that she was talking about that I said she just has to come on the show and share this information with my listeners. And so you are here today to talk about.

Wellness, health, clean eating vibrational energy. We’re gonna touch on reiki, which again is like that vibrational energy that’s in the body. And so Jackie, I’m so excited. First of all, I wanna know, what was it that kind of launched you on this journey and got [00:01:00] you started on a wellness and, and clean eating journey.

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, so it really stemmed from just kind of my experience growing up. I just experienced a lot of health issues, mostly in my stomach, digestion, and menstrual cycle issues, and just trying to navigate around that and figuring out what was going on with me. It was just, I felt so lost in that, and going to the, you know, mainstream doctors weren’t helping.

They just kept kind of prescribing me. Medications that would make me even more sick. And so it was just kind of a journey of really discovering wellness for myself and educating myself on the ways that are gonna be beneficial for our health and figuring out some of those issues that we encounter in our lives.

So, yeah, that was just Kind of a self-exploration. You know, I was kind of looking for answers [00:02:00] from like my family and the education system, and I really felt stuck a lot of times, and I was like, well, it seems like this is a journey that I need to take and do my own research and take my health into my own hands.

Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s a good point. Sometimes the, traditional medicine isn’t the solution, and it sounds like you went that route, and it really wasn’t helping you in any real meaningful way. And about how long has that that journey been for you? Like, when did that start, and how many years have you kind of been going through that?

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, I  would say. For as long as I remember from being a child, like just having problems with my stomach. You know, there were some days that I just couldn’t even get out of bed. You know, I had to go to the urgent care emergency room, just, I was like, I don’t know what’s going on. I feel like I’m, I’m gonna die and nobody’s giving me the answers.

And [00:03:00] so, yeah, it was just a really, I guess, a kind of a desperation too. Like I, I just really. Wanted to find a solution to this. I, I couldn’t believe that this was going to be the rest of my life just dealing with this pain. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And, and that’s not what anybody wants, right? I mean that can lead to depression and some other things too.

When you think like, this is how it’s gonna be forever. That can be kind of scary too. So tell us then, what initially did you start looking into in terms of like a solution? Was it. The clean eating part of it, that really was the thing that prompted the start and into everything else that you began doing.

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, definitely the clean eating. I always gravitated more to vegetarian diets, like even just as a child, like for some reason consuming meats was always something that I just felt very repulsed by. And it was something that I almost kind of had to force [00:04:00] myself to consume because I thought that’s what we needed to eat to be healthy.

And then, you know, as I just kind of started experimenting with different diets and I realized, wow, I’m feeling a lot better eating a cleaner diet, eating a diet with more fruits and vegetables and more living foods, right? So yeah, that really, I think. Jump started the whole trajectory of just exploring the diet and then eventually, you know, cutting out a lot of animal products and processed foods and that really just shifted my vibration and I was like, wow, there’s something going on here.

I wanna keep going. And that eventually led me to study plant-based nutrition and then dive into some more wellness practices from there. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And that’s something that I think a lot of people are really starting to see is how beneficial that living [00:05:00] diet is. Like the fruits and the vegetables and things that are raw and not overcooked and certainly not processed really does make a difference in how our body works with that food, right?

Mm-hmm. 

Jackie Lawrence: Definitely. Yeah. And another element too is just thinking about how those foods are really provided from the earth. You know, that just naturally, it’s like, oh, here you go. Here’s here’s your sustenance and your vitality. Yeah. Yeah, 

Desiree Stanley: So once you kind of got that started, you said you really could feel a shift in, in how your body was feeling.

And talk to us a little bit about that. Like what kind of began happening after that point? You obviously started feeling better because of the foods that you were eating, and 

Jackie Lawrence: yeah, I felt just a huge shift in my energy. Whereas before, You know, I always kind of felt a little bit [00:06:00] lethargic or tired.

It seemed like I was tired a lot and just putting those kind of foods in my body just I felt so vibrant. You know, when you’re putting vibrancy in your body, you’re gonna feel vibrant. And so I felt like I could start thinking clearer. Like I said, my energy skyrocketed. I was just working out all the time or just wanting to be outside, and I feel like that just ricocheted into all areas of my life.

And I was like, wow, if just cleaning up my diet and the food that I’m consuming is affecting me, what else can I clean up? That I’m consuming, you know, cause we consume on different levels, whether that’s through music, entertainment, the things that we put on our skin, our clothing. So yeah, just, it just sparked the curiosity in me to like explore all these other avenues.

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And that’s something that you [00:07:00] had mentioned is in terms of consuming and it’s the things that we’re watching on television, the things that we’re listening to, the things that we’re reading, that’s what we’re feeding our mind, right? And so not only are you eating clean to feed your body, which does also feed your mind, but those things like entertainment and stuff, as you said.

Makes a difference in how your brain functions. Talk to us a little bit about that. What did you find out? 

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, so when we think about how the mind works and our thoughts, our thoughts create our reality. So our thoughts create neurotransmitters, which are biochemicals, and these produce like an emotional response.

And then this produces an emotional frequency. Mm-hmm. And so when we have this level, the certain frequency, we attract things that [00:08:00] match that energy. So you know, if we are listening to things that aren’t so uplifting, that aren’t so positive or encouraging, You’re gonna kind of create a reality for yourself that’s not gonna uplift you, that’s not gonna move you forward in life.

Mm-hmm. So I feel like, you know, exploring the stories that we’re telling ourselves or the stories that other people are telling ourselves. I feel like a lot of that stuff just really resonated with me. In terms of kind of going back to my health journey too, I was telling myself certain stories like, oh, you know, my stomach is this way, it’s gonna be this way the rest of my life.

That’s just how I was designed. That’s how, you know, I just kept telling myself that story over and over again, and [00:09:00] then eventually when, you know, some healing was happening, I was like, wow. This isn’t my story anymore, you know? And being able to release that and create a news story for myself, that was one of, wow.

We, we have the power to heal ourselves. We have the power to create whatever reality we want for ourselves. 

Desiree Stanley: And so that’s where talking about vibrational energy, right? And how that plays into the world that we’re experiencing. Yes. Obviously there are things that are happening externally, but we can kind of choose what we wanna focus on, right?

Yes. And there’s that expression, what you think about, you bring about mm-hmm. And, mm-hmm. It’s not a coincidence that that expression exists. Right? 

Jackie Lawrence: Mm-hmm. Definitely. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So talk to us now about how Reiki came into your life [00:10:00] and what kind of inspired you to explore that.

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, so I’ve always been into just different energy work, body work. I grew up with my family. My grandma and I were just very into massages. That was a huge healing tool for us and learning more. I’ll talk a little bit more about this later too, but human design and learning that I explore the world through my hands.

When I heard that, I was like, oh wow, that really clicks for me because I really like to use my hands to heal. Hmm. And so I was just exploring different modalities with that and I was like, well, I know I’m really into energy work and massage. What else can I do to empower and like healing and facilitate healing for others.

And so I do have some friends that [00:11:00] were into Reiki and after going and experiencing some sessions myself, I was like, oh wow, this is a very interesting tool. I’d like to explore this more. And so I just took some classes and then got my certification and I’ve been just practicing on myself and my partner and my plants. And so yeah, I just feel like it’s a very powerful tool. It kind of reminds me of like what Jesus was doing, people know, laying of the hands and stuff like that, and how powerful our hands can be to heal ourselves. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So I was gonna have you just take a step back for a minute because there may be people who are listening who have no idea what Reiki is or what we’re talking about.

And so let’s take a step back and talk about what it is exactly and how it works and what the purpose is. 

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah. So Reiki is just a tool for facilitating healing. [00:12:00] Generally somebody. Kind of taps into source energy, universal love, energy, and kind of channels that through their body and facilitates healing for someone.

Now we’re not necessarily healing someone, we’re facilitating the possibility of healing for that person, for them doing the healing, if that makes sense. 

Desiree Stanley: It does. And so you’re talking about working with your hands and like a healing energy that you’re assisting the person to do the healing for themself.

And so what exactly is happening? Energy in the body as we know if you’ve done any kind of studying on, you know, chi energy and that sort of thing that’s talking about energy that flows through the body and sometimes it can be trapped in places. And so talk to us a little bit about that and like how we maybe get that moving and or released.

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, so usually during a session you do a [00:13:00] protection of the space. You call in the energy and then you use your hands to kind of facilitate the flow of the energy. And so this could be, you know, directly placing your hands on someone could be just, you know, hovering your hands over someone.

You can also do it through distance too. And with more advanced levels, you can also use like symbology with that too. There’s different symbols for distance healing and things like that. So yeah, the person generally is just kind of laying down, relaxing, closing their eyes, and you’re just kind of facilitating this session with them.

You do kind of an assessment to just get a sense of what they’re going through. And then, During this session, once you’re kind of attuned to the energies you can tell where a person is holding a lot of energy, or if the [00:14:00] energy is just stagnant.

Sometimes it’s the feeling of just extra heat in an area. Everybody kind of senses it differently, but that just is a little bit of what goes on. 

Desiree Stanley: Okay. Then for the person that is say, going through this and wants to work on, you know, moving that energy and releasing that what do they need to be working on?

Is it like a visualization? Is it something that they do specifically? 

Jackie Lawrence: You know, every facilitator does it a little bit differently. Sometimes they will kind of like guide you through maybe a meditation to kind of relax you. But really the person is just kind of like focusing on their breath and, if they want healing in a certain area, like kind of calling that’s guidance into that area.

Desiree Stanley: You talked a little bit with me about how faith [00:15:00] is a big part in healing, and you just mentioned earlier a little bit about Jesus with laying of the hands for healing. And so tell us a little bit more about that. How do you feel like faith has a lot to do with the healing process? I

Jackie Lawrence: feel like when we connect with our creator, You know, I know everybody has kind of different interpretations and ideas of what that is, but you know, however you want to connect with a higher or God, source.

But when you have that connection, I feel like it just really gives you that resiliency and fortitude to move through anything in your life. Just knowing that God has your back always, you know, God wants the best for all of us. And even through challenges of our life, they might seem like, oh, why am I experiencing [00:16:00] this?

Why am I going through this? And you know, we don’t really understand the big picture of things, but when we have that faith that everything that’s happening to us is for our greater good. I think that kind of attitude and mental fortitude just really helps you through anything in life. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. And you just mentioned something.

When something is happening to you, it’s really for you. And I think that that reframing sometimes is really important. In how you can approach something when you think, is this happening for me? And, and what benefit. Is it for me that I can grow from this or learn from this or you know, is this sort of launching me in a new direction?

And I think that that, that kind of reframing in your mindset makes a big difference, right? 

Jackie Lawrence: Yes, definitely. I think that that also touches on [00:17:00] the vibration that you want to be at. When you want to attract good things in your life. You need to be having good things in your mind. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. Yeah. The attitude of gratitude, that’s another expression that you know, has been around for a long time. Because really when you’re thinking about the good things that you have in your life and you’re thankful for those things in your life, it’s like you’re attracting more of those things because, You’re projecting it. 

Jackie Lawrence: yeah.

You’re telling the universe This is what I want in my life. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. I’m thankful for what I have. I appreciate all that I have, at whatever level it is. Even just, i, I’m thankful for the house I have that covers me and protects me or the shoes that I get to wear today.

Big or small, it doesn’t matter. Yeah. Instead just being thankful, right?

Jackie Lawrence: Yes, definitely. 

Desiree Stanley: Let’s talk a little bit more about the clean eating side of things and, where did you find some [00:18:00] of the information that kind of helped you determine that that was really a direction that you wanted to go.

And you did mention something about for yourself, just even it felt kind of weird to eat animal protein. And so it sounds like for you it just was more of a natural thing. But for somebody who’s maybe like trying to discover what’s a good direction to go for eating? Is there, you know, resources that they could find?

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, there’s a lot of resources. I’m just trying to think of what the best resource would be. I really like to watch a lot of Nutritionfacts.org. He just is very up to date on the research and really dives into studies and kind of breaks things down. So I feel like that’s a really great resource.

 Dr. Michael Gregor. He also wrote a book How Not to Die. Which I feel like is a great book for people to read too, just to [00:19:00] understand a little bit more about plants because a lot of us didn’t grow up learning about different sources of plants and what their makeup is and food combination and all of that.

And so I feel like, you know, doing a little research and kind of seeing what some of the scientific studies are behind that too, can encourage you to be like, okay, I feel a little bit more confident in trying some of this stuff. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah, and I wanna just bring up a documentary that was done that was kind of life changing for myself and our family.

And that was Forks Over Knives, which is the hundred year study that they did, in China and talking about eating plant more than animal and what a difference it made in the cancer cells of the body, because we do have cancer cells. It’s whether or not we’re feeding them.

And, that was a huge thing for us watching that documentary. But I will for sure include the resources that you [00:20:00] just named in the show notes so people can look those up because I think that anybody who is kind of curious about what can I eat that’s going to give me energy and, be healthy.

You know, they wanna have as many resources as possible to make sure that they understand what they’re getting. Because I think people are so confused about how much protein we need to have and where we need to get that protein from, right? And so having those resources, I think are super beneficial.

So thank you for sharing those. 

Jackie Lawrence: Definitely. 

Desiree Stanley: Let’s talk a little bit about some ways that we can fast track our practices around wellness and eating. 

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah. So I would recommend for everyone to do like a gut cleanse. Most of us weren’t raised on a plant-based diet.

So we have all sorts of fun stuff in our guts that have really built up this toxic load [00:21:00] and really affect our health that we don’t realize. So doing a gut cleanse. Especially a parasite cleanse, cuz we all have parasites. I know it’s not a fun thing to talk about, but we all do just. Because of the environments that we live in, what we’re exposed to.

So that is a major thing because I don’t think people realize how powerful parasites can be in controlling our thoughts, what kind of foods we want to eat, all those sorts of things. I feel like really cleaning those out is gonna really help fast track our wellness. So that’s one. Filtering our water.

Hmm. Making sure we’re filtering out fluoride. That’s really gonna help us detox our pineal gland. And why that’s so important is because our pineal gland really helps [00:22:00] regulate our circadian rhythms, our melatonin. And it also affects our reproductive hormones. Mm-hmm. If you’re having like problems sleeping or having problems with your hormones or things like that’s really gonna be hard to, move forward unless you really detoxify your pineal gland, which is mostly caused from fluoride. And then my third thing is really like learning about yourself. And when people ask me what does that mean? Well, like learning about your human design, for example, I feel like human design is a great system for really deep diving into yourself, learning about your mechanics, how your energy works.

Your strengths, your direction in life, like your chart can guide you through all of that, and I feel like it’s been such an immense help [00:23:00] for me. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah, those are great. And you know, we’ve been hearing so much about gut health. I think more frequently than in the past and talking about how important it is to have, a healthy gut.

And again, like with the parasites as you mentioned, I mean, that’s another huge thing that no, we don’t wanna think about it. We really don’t wanna think about it, but it does have such a huge impact on our overall health. Right? 

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah. 

Desiree Stanley: Thank you for bringing those up. And you know, I don’t think most people, I.

Besides, high school biology, I don’t think many people know really how our bodies function. And so looking into the mechanics, like you said, I think that’s a fantastic recommendation to truly understand how our body is meant to function. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That’s awesome. So tell me, Jackie, how many [00:24:00] hours.

A day do you think that you spend with your wellness practice? I 

Jackie Lawrence: would say the majority of my day, no. I was trying to break down this question and I was like, trying to do the hours and stuff and I feel like I’ve oriented my life, around implementing so much wellness in my everyday life, so, Kind of putting an hour, I was trying to break down everything and it’s pretty much the majority of the day, you know, 80 to 90% of the day because I consider properly feeding myself properly, hydrating myself, getting adequate rest, making sure to get some sunshine, making sure to get sunlight on my eyes, like all these things that we do throughout the day.

I really feel like our wellness practices. 

Desiree Stanley: You know, and for people who are working full-time and trying to figure out like meals to make and have [00:25:00] kids to go to events and whatever, it can seem a little overwhelming, like trying to add this too, but how important is it to have good health? I mean, I think that’s probably the most important thing, right?

Jackie Lawrence: Definitely. I mean, If you don’t have your health, how are you gonna be able to carry out the rest of the things you wanna do in your life? Like I said, in my earlier days in my, childhood or teenage years, I laying in bed because I couldn’t get out of bed cuz I was in so much pain.

You know, that that was several days of the month. Yeah. So, you know, when. I switched over my diet or started doing wellness practices and I was just able to function. I was like, oh, wow. This is a whole different kinda life, you know? My partner and I always talk about we want to be implementing these things now so that we can [00:26:00] be around for our grandkids and we can go run around with them.

We can play with them, like we can still move and be healthy and see them grow. 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s such a good point because if you don’t have your health, what can you give to anybody else? So you can’t really be there for your family. You don’t have the energy really for your job. And yeah, I think that it is the number one priority to make sure that your health is in place so that you can do the things that you wanna do.

You’re absolutely right. I totally agree. 

Jackie Lawrence: You really can’t pour from an empty cup, you know? Yeah, 

Desiree Stanley: yeah. Again, they say these things because they’re true. Right? Yeah. You cannot give to others if you don’t have anything to give. Yeah. Yeah. So let’s talk now a little bit about.

Some more things that we can do to raise our vibration level. We talked a little bit about what we’re consuming in terms of foods and what we’re consuming in terms of what we see on television, what we’re reading, what we’re listening to. Let’s talk a [00:27:00] little bit more about what we can do to raise the vibrations.

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, I think those are all great points and I think, personal development really plays a key part in here. And learning about yourself and learning how to live in the present moments. Mm-hmm. I feel like it’s a huge one. So, you know, working on self-love, self-worth, forgiveness so that you can move on from past.

I feel like those are really great things to focus on and when we can really know who we are, really connect with that. I feel like you can move in much more powerful ways because you have that anchor. You, you always know where you stand in your heart, and nobody can take that away from you.[00:28:00] 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah. So what would you suggest that people do to help them kind of reflect and, really figure out what those things are for them? What’s important to them? Because I think we go through life just like go, go, go, go, go. And, and we don’t often take time to have those moments to reflect.

So what do you suggest? 

Jackie Lawrence: Incorporating some kind of meditation practice. You know, it doesn’t have to be long. People always think, oh, I can’t sit down for 30 minutes or anything. Well, why don’t you just sit down for five minutes? Everybody has five minutes where they can take the time to sit with themselves.

Maybe that means sitting in silence. Maybe that’s a guided meditation. Whatever it feels like it resonates with you, but really taking time for yourself because you can’t really separate [00:29:00] yourself from all the external things that are happening if you don’t take that time for yourself.

Desiree Stanley: Yeah, that’s a good point. 

Jackie Lawrence: I would also suggest maybe like doing some kind of breath work. Breath work is very powerful. YouTube is a wonderful resource these days. You can find pretty much any and every thing on there now. So, you know, just type in breath work. You can explore different modalities, there’s different techniques.

That’s just a really great way to be able to reduce your stress levels, connect with yourself and raise your vibration and ultimately, and then yeah, just kind of tying back to self-love and just reflecting on the things that you’re saying to yourself throughout the day, you know how you’re reacting to things.

Again, the stories that you’re telling yourself throughout the day, that can play a major role in [00:30:00] how your life is unfolding. So if you notice, hey, Some of these things I’m saying to myself, aren’t so uplifting or positive, maybe I can switch that. So just trying to be more aware of how we’re reacting, what we’re thinking about, and making small changes.

I think that’s a key part, is like, it doesn’t have to be a huge shift. We can start making these small changes every day and eventually you’re like, oh wow. I really feel like something is shifting now and maybe you wanna incorporate more of that in your life and then it just becomes a part of your life.

Desiree Stanley: That’s such a great point, even starting with five minutes and, you know, I’ve had guests on who’ve talked before about Atomic Habits, which is a, a really great book that talks about, just those small. Incremental changes that lead to big changes. Another book that’s really great that talks about that is The Slight Edge, and [00:31:00] it’s, as you said, just starting with a little bit of time and then you like begin to feel how much better that is, that you want to spend more time doing it and then, eventually just like, Realize how incredible it feels and the real change it’s made in your life.

Just starting from that five minutes, and I love that. I think that’s such a great thing to remember, is that it doesn’t have to be, 30 minutes, an hour of, you know, trying to sit there and meditate, which is challenging for sure, especially if you’ve never sat quietly before it’s something that, you know, takes some time to build like a muscle, right?

Mm-hmm. So I think that that’s great advice, just even starting with five minutes and going from there. And I love that you’ve mentioned YouTube as a resource because Absolutely. There’s so much information that’s available to us now you know, at our fingertips [00:32:00] if we just look for it.

Yeah. Yeah, so that’s awesome. And talking about the breath work, you know, sometimes I think people get lost in the terminology. And really, when you’re saying breath work what are you meaning by that? 

Jackie Lawrence: So just doing certain patterns of breathing, so I could just be like breathing in for four seconds, holding it for two seconds, breathing out for five seconds, or doing different kind of patterns of that.

Or breathing in through the nose, exhaling through the mouth, breathing in through the mouth, exhaling through the nose. Like there’s just, yeah, it’s breathing, but there’s different patterns and techniques to that. 

Desiree Stanley: And again, that’s something that you can find on YouTube is people teaching others how to do that, right?

Jackie Lawrence: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Awesome. Mm-hmm. 

Desiree Stanley: So tell us, Jackie, what do you think that would be the most important thing to [00:33:00] begin right now, because we’ve talked about a number of things so far, eating, breathing, meditating, the reiki. What do you think that somebody should do initially to kind of just even get started in making some of these changes?

Jackie Lawrence: I personally feel that connecting with a higher source has been just a very powerful tool with starting out anything in your life. Just having that consistent anchor in your life to know that God has your back. God has your back and even though other elements in your life maybe you don’t feel supported in, or you don’t have anybody, you always have God to turn to.

Mm-hmm. And I really like to, I know there’s a lot of people that don’t necessarily believe in that, but you know, finding some connection to a higher source I [00:34:00] feel is just very powerful. And then, again, like kind of looking at your diet and what you’re putting in your body. When I say diet, I’m not just referring to food.

I just wanna clarify that for everybody. I think just like, bringing awareness to our life, what we’re doing, what we’re implementing, what we’re putting into our bodies and our minds and our souls. 

Desiree Stanley: So it really is a whole. A whole shift. One change leads to another.

Yeah. In a way too. So when you start to make some changes in this area, it rolls over into other areas of your life and your body and your existence. Mm-hmm. 

Jackie Lawrence: Definitely. 

Desiree Stanley: So Jackie, tell us now what tools would you say that we can use to maximize our potential?

Jackie Lawrence: I would say, so kind of jumping off the meditation part[00:35:00] prayer and intention. Mm-hmm. Really focusing our attention on what we want in our lives and not giving energy to the things that we don’t want, which can be very easy to do. Mm-hmm. Again, Moving more towards like plant-based living more alkaline lifestyle.

I kinda like to refer to it as super foods, sun foods, those are great things to utilize. Breath work again, visualization. I don’t know if we’ve really dived into that, but tying back into like the power of our minds and the things that we think about. So when we can purposely create a vision for ourselves and consistently tap into that vision paired with [00:36:00] the emotions that you feel when you are experiencing that vision.

I feel like that can manifest things into our lives way faster. And we don’t often know when or how things are gonna come into our lives, but when we have that consistency with our vision, I feel like that’s just a very powerful tool for maximizing whatever you want in your life. Again The self-talk and self-love, I feel that’s like a very important thing to tie into, how powerful our hearts are.

I don’t know if you’ve looked into the electromagnetic field of our hearts, but it’s the strongest organ for radiating that kind of field in our body. Mm. And so I feel like when we have such a [00:37:00] strong love and connection to ourselves and our hearts and the visions that we hold, that’s a great way to maximize our potential.

Desiree Stanley: I love that. You touched on quite a few things that I think are so great. Number one, you did mention alkaline diet, and I want to bring that back up for a second because what they have found is how important it is for us to have a diet that’s Away from the acid. Right and that end of the spectrum of the pH level and more to the alkaline.

Can you share with us maybe some types of foods that are more alkaline? 

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah, so the majority of fruits and vegetables are alkaline. You know, there’s some debates in the field over the specifics of which fruits and veggies are, but in general, fruits and vegetables tend to be alkaline.

If you [00:38:00] just think about the effects that it has on our body and our energy. Foods that are more acid producing tend to digest slower, kind of make us not feel as energetic. Hmm. Make us not feel as like alive, as vibrant. I feel like watermelon is a great one.

Cucumbers. Those two are some of my favorites to like, play with yeah, just in general, fruits, grapes, melons are really great too. 

Desiree Stanley: That’s great. Thank you for sharing those. Just to kind of give a point of reference for people, I mean, some of it is a little bit common sense, right?

We can, we can see what something’s maybe more acidic than something else, and so the pH level is gonna be different. Right. But just, you know, for a point of reference, I think that that was helpful. And, talking again about the heart and the energy. And you mentioned electromagnetic [00:39:00] and that the energy coming from the heart.

And so talk to us a little bit more about that in terms of what that does and how that has a role in how we feel and the energy that we’re putting off to others. 

Jackie Lawrence: Mm-hmm. 

 I like to say that we are beings of love. Our purpose here is to love and be loved and, or at least that’s how I feel about myself.

And so when we can really attune to our heart and really know the guidance that is there, that can create just such a ripple effect in our life. They say that you’re more likely if you have a neighbor that’s, happy or just more positive. It increases your chances of being happy, you’re cheerful, like 60% or something like that.

So I feel like really when we activate that [00:40:00] power of our heart, that can just really radiate out and just create this like I said, kind of a ripple effect. And kind of encompass everybody in that loving vibration. 

Desiree Stanley: Thank you for sharing that. Talking about what effect it has on our immediate neighbors, which, affects our communities, which affects the state, which affects the country, which affects the world really.

And it just starts with us. Yeah. And it starts with each of us. And so I think that’s a huge point to remember is what effect that we can have because we, I think, can often feel very small and like we have no effect on what’s happening in the world when we do have so much more power than we think we do.

Jackie Lawrence: Yes. Yeah. And if we are all individually working on that for ourselves, like. Imagine how that affects the collective consciousness. [00:41:00] 

Desiree Stanley: Yeah, for sure. Well, I have so enjoyed our conversation, Jackie. Thank you again for sharing this information with us, and I always like to ask my guests if there’s any books that they’ve read or are reading that they’d like to suggest that the listeners check out or if there’s any podcasts that you wanna suggest I’d love for you to share those with us now.

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah. I actually have a few books with me here that I’m currently kind of studying and looking at. So this is The Subtle Body. I dunno if you can see that with the light reflection by Cindy Dale. And it’s an encyclopedia of your energetic anatomy, so it just kind of goes through different energetic systems different traditions and just it’s a tool for like helping you to learn more about your energetic body.

Which I don’t think a lot of people are really aware of. 

Desiree Stanley: No, I don’t think so. Thank you for sharing that, and I’ll be sure [00:42:00] to include the title and author in the show notes so listeners can check that out. That’s a fantastic suggestion. Thank you. 

Jackie Lawrence: Yeah. And then I do have a book that I’m reading on my audible.

The Quantum Human by Karen Curry Parker. Mm-hmm. So if you wanna dive into human design and learn more about that, she’s a great resource. Karen Curry Parker for Human Design. She’s talking about kind of some of the shifts that are happening in our internal hardware.

She talks about kind of the splitting of some of our Chakras or energy centers. Mm-hmm. And just kind of our evolution of consciousness and some of the things that are happening in our current times. So if you kind of want some guidance around that, that’s a great book to look into.

Desiree Stanley: Oh yeah, that sounds excellent for sure. Definitely wanna check that out. And then, how about any podcasts that you are listening to that you’d like to [00:43:00] suggest? 

Jackie Lawrence: I. I don’t feel like I consistently listen to a podcast. I kind of dabble here and there. I’ve kind of been dabbling in just like some human design ones, specifically about projectors.

That’s what I am. So yeah, there’s one that’s called The Projector Movement that I’ve been listening to, just so that I understand myself a little bit more. 

Desiree Stanley: Oh, that’s great because I think there’s probably other people who are similar in that respect and might wanna check that out to see is that something that applies to them makes sense to them.

Just even to expand your mind, right, to learn a new perspective. I think that’s awesome. Thank you for suggesting it. So Jackie, is there any way that people can connect with you to learn more about you and what you’re doing on your journey, you know, just the knowledge that you have? Can you share where they might be able to connect with you?

Jackie Lawrence: [00:44:00] Sure. Right now, I would say kind of the area that I use to share my information is Instagram. So you can follow me at Raw Cosmic Heart on Instagram. 

Desiree Stanley: Okay, perfect. And so that’s the best way then to follow you and to connect with you if they wanted to reach out with any questions or anything like that?

Jackie Lawrence: Absolutely, yes. 

Desiree Stanley: Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you again, Jackie. I so appreciated you coming on the show today to share this information with us. I truly appreciate your time and your knowledge. Thank you. 

Jackie Lawrence: Thank you so much, Desiree, for having me. 

Desiree Stanley: Of course, we’ll talk soon. 

Jackie Lawrence: Okay. Sounds great.